Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Help with son's first deer rifle: Ruger American vs Remington SPS?

Hello,
My 11 yr old son is wanting his first deer rifle for Christmas. He is average build and has comfortably shot my friend's .243 Ruger M77. We mainly hunt whitetails in the foothills of north Georgia where the average shot is well under 100 yds and the deer are not big. I am wanting to keep the budget reasonable (<$400). Local WalMart has Remington 700 SPS with cheap scope for $377. I was looking at the Ruger American, particularly the Compact model due to shorter LOP and shorter barrel. I might top it off with a Redfield Revolution or same friend with .243 has said would sell an older Leupold Var-X II 2-7x33 for $100. Any input on the Ruger Compact? I like the tang safety better on it than the Remington.
All input appreciated!

SPS

World's better for a first rifle!

Mike

Thanks for the reply. Any particular reason you favor the Remington?

The SpS would be my choice over the American also. alot of after market options for it, from trigger to stock, etc. I would take a Remington 700 SPS, and be happy.

Jed

30 Years from now when he pulls it out of the safe and says this was my first deer rifle he will have a solid, accurate, well made rifle or a piece of plastic with cheesy magazines and flimsy forearm.

I own 1 Ruger American the allure is short, twisted properly and cheap.

Mike

Take him to the store and let the kid decide. He will probably show a definite preference for one or the other, and both will work just fine for your application.

I bet that SPS package is actually an ADL.

Down the road he can do any kind of customization to the 700 and keep using his first deer rifle. I have a RAR and it sits at my property in case it's needed, so far it's never been needed.

Yes , the one at wal-mart is an ADL. I almost bought one for the action because the price is right . If you go with the 700, he can leave it as is, or customize it anyway he wants .

Not sure if you're in a hurry to get it, but Whittakers Guns in Owensboro, KY shows a stainless Marlin XS7 on their website in 7mm -08 for $270.99. Not sure bet I'd bet they would ship. Even with shipping and FFL fees you should have plenty left for good rings and some managed recoil loads. It isn't a compact though. Just figured I'd pass the info along!

Remington. My daughter was excited to get a 'real' rifle over a budget gun (yes, she knew the difference). She has the package you describe and it shoots bug holes. The scope sucks, but what do you expect for the price of a donor action. Pull the scope and save it for a 10-22 and get a redfield 3-9 and he won't *need* another rifle for a very long time, if ever.

+1.

The T/C Venture is an option for you with a $75.00 rebate.

Give Wittakers a call, Derick will be happy to help a campfire member.

Doc

The Ruger will likely shoot 'better' out of the box IME, but I would get him the Remington. The Remington is a solid rifle and that receiver will last him forever. The possibilities with the Remington are endless, he can change it over the years to suit his needs. The American is too new to know what sort of aftermarket or gunsmithing support it will have.

Whittaker's is $9.99 shipping on all long guns, hell maybe all guns. I'd still buy the Remington over the Marlin for all the same reasons stated above about future customization. Remington offers rebates of $35 on the ADL until the end of the year, and a $50 black Friday rebate on ADL rifles purchased between 11/20/15-11/30/15 if that helps. Anyway let us know what you decide.

Quite frankly I would pass on either budget rifle.

Long after the initial price is forgotten, the pride of ownership of a nice rifle will still be there.

I, like many here have used numerous Remingtons over the years, but their quality control is very spotty these days, and the only thing I would use a new Remington for is to tear it down and use the action as a base for a custom build.

In your sons case, I would look for an older Model 700 in .243, 6mm, or 7-08.

Or a new Tikka T3,

Or even a CZ.

Or a Browning.

There are a TON of older rifles on the market that have seen very little use, and you would most likely have a better quality rifle that he will be as proud of at 60, as 16.

I just bought a Wal Mart ADL in 7 Rem Mag. If you buy it before the end of the month there is a $50.00 black friday rebate special from Remington.I've already sold the scope and rings for $40.00 so just under $300.00 invested.

I would be very cautious about this "budget rifle" approach. I am very familiar with both rifles. I own a Ruger Compact ,243 with the laminated Black and greyish stock, I have a Leupold 3x9 VX2 Ultralight scope. That rifle gets attention from serious riflemen. However it shoots flame out the barrel and the muzzle blast and shot sounds like a clap of thunder. The 16.5 inch barrel is handy but the unburned powder and energy to me proves an 18 inch barrel would have been a better target for Ruger when they designed that rifle. The guy I know who has shot the most deer in this area (20 in three years) uses this Ruger Compact in .308. My rifle is .243 and that round is EXCELLENT for your son.

The problem as I see it is over time certain rifles lose their appeal. Either budget rifle puts your son in that not worth owning bind soon. A Remington Model 700 was my first rifle with a 18.5 inch barrel. It still turns heads among serious gun collectors and has won many offhand shooting trophies. That rifle is .222 Remington. Today a .223 would be a better choice.

Yet the .243 is WAY better as a hunting rifle round. If I had MY choice for a young son it would be the Winchester Model 70 Compact Featherweight in .243 or maybe 7mm08. I own the .243. Problem here is HOW can you get a rifle from a local dealer that will KEEP it's value. Almost every dealer is faced with budget buyers who rather rapidly are saddled with a junk rifle. bought my first rifle MYSELF. I NEVER would buy the rifle for a young son and exclude him from the purchase and see what he thinks, etc.

A Remington that gets the most favorable reviews from gun experts is the Model 7. About six years ago I passed up on one with a lovely figured wood stock in .243. Why? At the time i was still favoring the .244 also known as the 6MM Remington. Huge mistake! The .243 Winchester is one of the best and most available rounds in the world and the .244 and the 6mm Remingtons are reloaders cartridges.

Looking forward to hearing what you two do!

Actually it is a budget BDL since it has a floor plate.


The Ruger is the better rifle in every way.

Don't concern yourself in buying a lifetime rifle for an 11 year old kid. Many of you are looking at this through the eyes of 50+ year old hunters. Kids today don't want the rifles we wanted when we were younger. There is a reason polished metal and walnut rifles are gathering dust in stores, younger shooters don't want them.

When he is a little older and has some hunting experience he will decide what rifles he likes and wants and can upgrade if he wants.

I have a serious issue with your statement about walnut stocks and metal rifles gathering dust! Where did you get that conclusion from. I am a former Army Colonel and have followed the whole gun industry for years. Being at big gunstores on lucky occasions I am particularly interested in hearing what father, grandfather, and younger sons and daughter say when they are shopping for that first entry rifle!

It is pretty interesting to watch what they end up with! Chuck Hawks has one of the best respected reviews on the Internet. He clearly favors walnut stocks. I have always noted in looking at combat rifles how many countries use wooden stocks in conditions that many USA hunters would feel greatly would favor "modern fiberglass or composite stocks".
Authorities like Jack O'Connor used wooden stocks when many had shifted to change composites.

Often at big gunstores I ask buyers what would be your ultimate choice in a rifle. Wooden stocks and good barrels and actions is the answer most often.

Only a pretty good gunstore would have a decent enough selection to make this approach you suggest work! But if a father and son visited a place with a good inventory of new and used guns and worked together to find the right first gun........the results would be far better!

A used rifle can often be found that would far surpass the budget rifles. One real problem with this approach though is that team approach is actually happening and many of them are looking for exactly what the author of this thread is looking for!

Absolutely classic!

I'd be surprised if you get much agreement on that, unless you were being facetious.

Thirty thirty..... if he can run a lever. Find a nice used marlin with pretty wood...

W

I have an american I won... I tried to get it rebored.. guy refused, said he would not work on one again, PITA etc...

Plus I dont' care for ruger still due to past politics.

The Rem has a LOT more options out there and for the future.

That being said I'd take him to a gun show or gun shop and let him look...after all its he that has to like it really.

Wood is fine. Synthetic is by far better. Depends on your needs. If you would hang around shooters that are picky, competitive ones, that demand zero's stay the same and top line accuracy, will take synthetic every last time.

I did not stay at a Holiday inn last night.

I have both, like em both well enough. I'm a Ruger fan so I bought the All American for my 12 year old Grandson. If he had his dream gun it would an AR with a hand full of 30 round mags. He will figure out exactly what he wants in a deer rifle down the road.

I vote RAR 223/243 Vari X-II 2-7X33.

I thought Remington did away with the ADL years ago.

SPS by a very long mile.

If you really love your son, Whittaker Guns has Howa's for $329.00 right now.




Travis

remington 700 all day

I went with a Rem 700 Youth .243 for my son when he got tall enough to use the 12.5" LOP. Before that he was using an H&R single shot with a shorter LOP because we started when he was 5 years old and a little on the short side.

I looked at several others but for the money, and the availability of almost any aftermarket part you could want the 700 just made the most sense to me.

It is not a finely blued rifle but I gave it a couple of coats of Krylon Matte Clear and it still looks good after 5 years and several deer taken. The stock spacer will allow it to grow with him and it is accurate with factory ammo. Then we have the option of buying a better stock and trigger later if we want, but the way it shoots now I don't know why we would. The only thing I would like to have that it did not come with is maybe a 22" barrel over the factory 20".

It will probably not be his main rifle for the rest of his hunting life, I'm sure he will experiment, but for deer sized game it will be all he would need.

When they get older they can have more input and help make decisions on what they would like have.

Bob.

The howas feel like solid rifles. If they put out some of their micro action .223s in 1-8" with a weatherby style stock I'll have one.

Not sure that 8 twist is gonna gain you anything with that short of a mag.

But the standard VG's and Howa's can be got with any stock your heart desires. Almost.



Travis

u know there are sooooo many good calibers out there now for the young hunters.in my day it was the 30-30 or 257mainly because pill selection for the lighter calibers like the 243 were limited.
today u have the 7mm-08,260,25-06,he can probably even shoot a 308.
yes there have been a variety of new calibers over the past 20 years or so but nothing really new in ballistics,the new and in my opinion best new developement has been pills, so that now even a 22 caliber can be used.
i have a 223 loaded with sierras relatively new 65 gr bt,it has a 1-9 twist and shoots under .500 at 100 yards. the only thing is its a max 200 yard weapon,maybe even 150
270 FOREVER JACK CONVINCED ME I GOT 6 OF THEM

The 700 will be just fine for a first gun. If he takes to hunting and shooting buy him a nice wood/blued for graduation if thats what he wants.

Myself having the choice of someone buying me one would not be blued/wood. I would pick SS/Syn.

I picked up one of the youth 243 700's about 3 yrs ago from wally world on sale for $299. Nice little gun. I ended up selling the slick youth stock for $50 and replaced it with a factory SPS with the hogue type grip panels which I like much more.

cdnnsports.com has the Ruger M77 Hawkeye in several configurations and calibers including blue/walnut, stainless/synthetic and compact versions for $499. The 7mm-08 All Weather would be a great choice!

Looking at some other options which are quite a few nowadays. You also have the Weatherby compact youth which is a Howa action but its stock can be extended as he grows. My Daughter has three Tikkas and one custom Sako 243. Her one Tikka is the hunter in 308 with the stock cut down to fit her and a Edwards recoil reducer coupled with a limbsaver recoil pad. Virtually no felt recoil. She also has a Tikka 7mm mag T3 but her favorite is the Tikka compact in 7mm-08. Excellent trigger with a Leupold 3-9. More than RAR in cost but a real handy accurate rifle. I think 7mm-08 is the way to go what ever rifle you purchase.

be careful the wall world rems are usually rem 783s

If it is an ADL it is a deal. A BDL, even better. I had an SPS once . I don't know how much difference there is but the SPS .243 Win. Youth rusted really fast and could only get 3" groups @ 100 yds. We traded it for a Tikka t3Light? in .270 Win. He likes that gun a lot more. It is longer and not a youth but is a better gun. It was $ 529 without a scope however. Wish I'd spent a bit more right away. He has a Redffield Revolution 2x7 on it. The cost came to about $700 out the door but might be worth it in the long run. He got a 3 pt and a bear so far in 3 years of owning it. In 20 yrs, the extra few hundred bucks will long be forgotten, but the quality will still be there. I dont think you will go wrong with the Remington though. Will need a real scope in 5 yrs though.

If you can, let him handle both and see which one he prefers. If he has a strong preference, you have your answer.

If no strong preference, I would go with the Remington 700... As stated above, there is a world of after market parts available to tweak it and customize it when the time comes.

JMO... YMMV...

I know the difference. I also know that my local Walmart sells the the ADL package for $377. I also know the going rate for a SPS is about $550-$600.

I went through the same thing this summer. I took my son to Cabela's, Gander Mountain, and a couple of large local gun stores. He handled Remington, Winchester, Tikka, Weatherby, Browning and Ruger bolt actions. He chose a Ruger American Rifle in .243Win. He had a strong preference for the RAR. He likes the light weight and how the gun fits him.

I'm not a Ruger guy. I've never owned a Ruger rifle. I have more Rem 700s than anything else. I do most of my hunting with either my 7mm Rem Mag or my .257Wby Mag, both stainless 700s wearing synthetic stocks.

I tried to steer my son to either a Remington or a Winchester. He chose the Ruger because he liked how it felt to him. It has turned out to be a great choice.

It is an extremely accurate little rifle and he shoots it very well. He carried it in Wyoming last month on his first big game hunt. He bagged his first animal - a really nice Pronghorn - with his RAR. I'm sure this rifle will always be special because of the memories associated with it.

When he gains experience and begins to appreciate rifles for their quality of build and beauty of materials his opinions and choice of rifles will likely change. When and if that day comes I'm sure that little Ruger will still have a special place in his gun safe.

I was in the biggest retail gunstore in the USA. I asked a number of gun buyers what their ultimate rifle would be. Answer: Wood Stock light rifle usually bolt action! I went out my way to ask this question to about seven groups of parents, grandparents, and quite young boys and girls (I'd say the average age of the kids being bought a first gun was roughly 16. Answer still came out wood stock light rifle. Winchester Model 70, Ruger Hawkeye (usually the standard not the compact), Remington ADL type, Kimber.........That was the target. The lower level models seemed to be always looked at, always set aside due to more corners cut. Now one significant factor.......not one youth buying a rifle for herself or himself.
Our gun laws pretty much prevent that and it was not in one of the restrictive states.

One of my single nicest rifles is my Jack O'Connor Tribute .270 Model 70!

The Jack O' Connor Center, Glen Hatt, and Winchester did a great job with that rifle.

no the model 783 comes with a floor plate

it could even be a model 770

Damn, it pains me, but Travis is right.

Bought my kids a Howa 1500. Great rifle, especially considering the price.

My first rifle was a .308 BLR made in Japan (pre81).
I still have it and hunt with it every year.

I guess different folks have different ideas about what a first gun should be. I'm thankful my first gun from my parents was a walnut/gloss blue 12ga Browning BPS. That gun is still in my safe and will be passed to the next generation some day. If it was a Wingmaster I would feel the same way about it. Sadly, if it would have been an 870 Express, especially a synthetic, I probably would have traded it away for something nicer in my younger days. Because it was a very nice piece to begin with, I still have it now that I am old enough to appreciate having that "first gun" in my collection.

My BIL recently bought my nephew his first deer rifle and, knowing that I do a lot of trading, he asked for my help to locate him a nice wood/blue rifle for his first. He wanted something that he would hopefully appreciate into adulthood. I found him a very nice Model 7 CDL and a youth synthetic stock to go with it. He can bang up the synthetic stock while he's young and learning, then the nice walnut stock can be put back on it in a few years when he's older and able to appreciate it. As a good uncle, I had to supply a nice older Nikon Monarch UCC to complete the package.

I bought my own first deer rifle several years back. Not knowing any better, I bought a Rem 710 because it was cheap. I later won a Ruger M77 MarkII in 280Rem in a raffle. That was my first "real" rifle and it will stay in the safe with the BPS to be passed on. The 710 is long gone. I still kind of regret that my first deer rifle that I killed my first deer with is gone, but that rifle was awful in comparison to the Ruger.

Of your 2 choices, I'd go with the 700. It's still at it's heart a real rifle with lots of options for the future. The RAR is a good little gun, but I still can't see it as one to be passed down through the generations.

If you aren't stuck on those 2 but still need a budget rifle, the stainless 7mm-08 Marlin XS7 from Whittaker's would be my choice. After a coat of paint on the stock, mine looks like this:


and shoots like this:

A Ruger American makes for a great weekend type light duty hunting rifle.

For rough country hunting, or horse back/pack hunting, I'd take a Remington any day for reliability.

I really appreciate everyone's feedback. I took him to the store and tried out several rifles. He felt he liked the Ruger American in the Compact model the best. I agreed and here are the reasons in case this helps someone in a similar situation
1) he liked it the best (has to be number 1)
2) compact size that he could handle well
3) value - several nice features for the cost
4) Ruger's reputation for better customer service than just about any other gun company
5) tang safety (his preference)
6) reputation for accuracy (lower on list as this will be a hunting rifle for primarily under 150 yds
7) detachable magazine (safer way than blind mag to unload for 10 yr old)

I hope he enjoys it!