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Lots of women, young women in particular are getting carry permits these days.
I know a few, probably 4 different females That aren't exactly avid shooters but they are getting carry permits. (I expect some push back on that statement so I will clarify in advance that I will help these ladies practice and become familiar with what ever the choice may be. And I will encourage they practice on their own as frequently as possible)
I'm going to toss out some thoughts, because I will be looked at to advise these women on firearms selections.
Please do tell me where I'm wrong because I'm more interested in their safety and their needs than I am worried about being right.
As my post title states, I'm leaning in the J frame (642/442) and LCR direction.
Here are some of my reasons.
Function under stress. I see a "hammerless" revolver as a very simple tool, no more complex than a push button flashlight. Functionally, it will simply work. It's loaded, you just point it at the danger and pull the trigger until it is out of bang noises. It wont fail to feed, wont FTE, none of that. In the odd case that a primer fails to ignite you just pull the trigger again (self clearing).
Here are some cons that I have sort of... justified.
Capacity is 5 in .38. But that's a 5 count of no bullshit, no dicking around with clearing malfunctions. It's 5 shots that will not fail you.
Reloading speed. Yes, this is true. But these women aren't going to carry extra mags anyways so I'm calling this one irrelevant.
Width disadvantage due to cylinder? I think they are around 1-1/4" to 1.3" at the wide point (cylinder). A lot of single stacks go an inch or better in width. I don't know, I don't have a good argument for compact revolver width vs small pistol width other than to say "not much difference here".
Well, there are my thoughts on the matter. I'm putting compact revolvers against little 380 strikers. Glock 42, LCR, M&P bodyguard etc.
Those pistols are all great little guns but I'm thinking keep it simple.
Ok, turn loose with your relentless dismantling of my ideas/theories here.
Thanks. Dave, While I am a very big fan of the J frame series of revolvers, and the 442/642 in particular, don't think for a minute that they are always 100%. I am currently waiting on a return shipping label for my 442. The short version is that the cylinder started binding, and I discovered that the firing pin was staying in the forward position, and not retracting. Off it goes to the factory. This is not the first time I have shot a revolver to the point of malfunction. Environmental factors play in too. I had one literally freeze up, after I took a fall into the deep snow, and my goretex jacket was partially unzipped. The gun as closer to body temp, than ambient temp, and when the snow contacted it, it froze up rather quickly in spite of being externally brushed off. Revolvers are great for new shooters, but they are not any more reliable than some new service autos. Cheers! OUT OF ACTION: ![[Linked Image]](http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/Handguns/photo%2014_zpspkjhilsp.jpg) Mackay, got a round count to the failure on that 442? A rough guesstimate would be good enough, I wonder about the longevity of the aluminum J's.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Small revolvers IMO are a lousy thing to do to a new shooter. They're the most difficult of all handguns to shoot. Look to a Kahr CW9, S&W Shield, G43; something along those lines. I promise she'll shoot it much better and I don't think reliability is going to be an issue. You've referenced compact 9's as alternatives. Would you look past 380's?
Something clever here.
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Campfire Ranger
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Most everybody is blowing some pretty good holes in my revolver ideas. Due in a large part by the DA trigger pull.
The LCR is said to have a nicer, non stacking pull. That said, I've also heard it is more difficult to stage the DA pull on the LCR... I doubt that's important for the context of the intended use here though.
So, although it's probably a bit early for me to bail on the revolver thoughts, I can't help but wonder if I should be focusing on only the 380's in compact semi autos?
LC380, Beretta "Pica", glock 42..... PPK?
mymindisfulloffuck I don't necessarily buy that a 2" revolver is so hard to shoot, but that is with man hands and finger strength. I've been using one of these self healing ball targets at the range lately, starting at 10 yds and shooting it on out to about 40 yds when I had trouble making more than the occasional hit. ![[Linked Image]](http://image.sportsmansguide.com/adimgs/l/2/202525m2_ts.jpg) With the 2" snubbie I was hitting it pretty consistantly on out to 25 yds shooting DA offhand. And I've only gotten back into handgun shooting in the past month. As to the .380, if limited to factory fodder for practice, that is probably a better choice than a compact 9mm. If you reload, I'd give serious consideration to the 9. I'd always thought PPK's were the coolest until I shot one. LCPs is worth a gander.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Most women don't have a problem handling a compact 9mm.
Let's Go Brandon! FJB
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Revolvers are great for new shooters, but they are not any more reliable than some new service autos.
Statements like this come from people that actually shoot revolvers instead of jerking off to them. Travis If a person were inclined to jerk off to a revolver, it would be tough to do with an LCR. They be ugly. But if a person were inclined to carry and shoot the darned things, they are a joy.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis
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Campfire Ranger
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I've noticed what some people have mentioned. that is women want what they want. The nice thing about revolvers is grips are changeable. I've noticed women tend to like the Hogue grips. In the classes I've taught they tend to gravitate to Ruger Six series guns, K frame smiths and such for just shooting. A little heavier gun mitigates recoil, and some aren't really open to that. I'd also consider starting them with 22's for just shooting. Or start with center fire cartridges and a fair amount of dry firing get's them used to the idea. Good luck you have your job cut out for you. My wife likes her 4" Security six. FWIW. I'm working on her to try a Beretta 84 that I picked up recently. It'll be something that has to come with one up the spout because she can't pull the slide back. But the other side of the equation is the mag holds 13 rounds.
NRA LIFE MEMBER
GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS
ESPECIALLY THE SNIPERS!
"Suppose you were an idiot And suppose you were a member of Congress... But I repeat myself."
-Mark Twain
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Joined: Nov 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Lots of women, young women in particular are getting carry permits these days.
I know a few, probably 4 different females That aren't exactly avid shooters but they are getting carry permits. (I expect some push back on that statement so I will clarify in advance that I will help these ladies practice and become familiar with what ever the choice may be. And I will encourage they practice on their own as frequently as possible)
I'm going to toss out some thoughts, because I will be looked at to advise these women on firearms selections.
Please do tell me where I'm wrong because I'm more interested in their safety and their needs than I am worried about being right.
As my post title states, I'm leaning in the J frame (642/442) and LCR direction.
Here are some of my reasons.
Function under stress. I see a "hammerless" revolver as a very simple tool, no more complex than a push button flashlight. Functionally, it will simply work. It's loaded, you just point it at the danger and pull the trigger until it is out of bang noises. It wont fail to feed, wont FTE, none of that. In the odd case that a primer fails to ignite you just pull the trigger again (self clearing).
Here are some cons that I have sort of... justified.
Capacity is 5 in .38. But that's a 5 count of no bullshit, no dicking around with clearing malfunctions. It's 5 shots that will not fail you.
Reloading speed. Yes, this is true. But these women aren't going to carry extra mags anyways so I'm calling this one irrelevant.
Width disadvantage due to cylinder? I think they are around 1-1/4" to 1.3" at the wide point (cylinder). A lot of single stacks go an inch or better in width. I don't know, I don't have a good argument for compact revolver width vs small pistol width other than to say "not much difference here".
Well, there are my thoughts on the matter. I'm putting compact revolvers against little 380 strikers. Glock 42, LCR, M&P bodyguard etc.
Those pistols are all great little guns but I'm thinking keep it simple.
Ok, turn loose with your relentless dismantling of my ideas/theories here.
Thanks. LCR. Travis Thanks. Would you stick with the .38 or drop to a rimfire, possibly .22 magnum? Brings another question, the J frames go to an uber heavy trigger pull for their rim fires. Do you know if the LCR has a crazy heavy trigger in rim fire models? Dave, the LCR is hindered by a heavier trigger pull in the rimfire models, but I don't find it prohibitive, and I gifted my Mother one of these in 22LR. She likes it much better than the 38 special that I originally gave her. Since then, Ruger has released the LCR in 327 magnum, using a 6 shot cylinder. This would give the ability to practice with cartriges such as the 32 Smith and Wesson and 32 Smith and Wesson Long, which would give very minimal recoil and muzzle blast, then carry full speed 327 magnums for social purposes.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis
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Campfire Tracker
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Yep. And dirt & debris from a pocket or purse can jam them up. Or a bad guy clamps his hand on the gun during a struggle, and the cylinder won't rotate. All that said, women will like what they like, and get annoyed if they don't like your suggestion.  Try to find a range that rents different guns, so they can try a variety of them. Steer them away from poor quality or inadequate caliber - otherwise let them pick what they like. A couple of women have really liked this gun: ![[Linked Image]](http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww127/tex_n_cal/m60pro-sm_zps13fd3e4d.jpg) The last woman I took shooting tried a couple of my revos, but then immediately went for a Kahr K9. That's the gun my wife picked too. She shoots it better than an Glock and it is easier for her to work.
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Campfire Tracker
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Wouldn't say revolvers are fool-proof, but there's certainly fewer motor skills involved overall, and that's no small consideration.
IMO, the S&W 640Pro is the realization of what a j-frame can be. Comes with a nice trigger out of the box, nice (usable) nightsights, and enough heft that it shoots surprisingly easy, and I make no claim to be a pistolero. It's distinctly more shootable than say an airweight frame with rudimentary sights and maybe a heavy, stacking trigger to boot. Just a thought.
The M&P340 also has real sights, though it's lighter and suffers the factory trigger.
Golldammed motion detector lights. A guy can’t even piss off his porch in peace any more.
"Look, I want to help the helpless. It's the clueless I don't give a [bleep] about." - Dennis Miller on obamacare.
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Campfire Outfitter
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I firmly recommend against small revolvers for inexperienced shooters or those who won't practice regularly.
A tiny sight radius with nearly non-existent sights, a long and heavy trigger pull that's completely disproportional to its weight, a weight which makes the recoil even worse with the tiny grip.
Any woman who can use a smart phone or DVD player can insert a magazine and rack a slide without confusion.
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I'm now very interested in LC9s pro.
Damn, might even want one for myself.
Something clever here.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Revolvers are great for new shooters, but they are not any more reliable than some new service autos.
Statements like this come from people that actually shoot revolvers instead of jerking off to them. Travis Throw a revolver down in the dirt, get it good and dirty, then do the same to an auto and tell me which one works. There's a reason militaries went to autos a century ago.
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Campfire Ranger
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Small revolvers IMO are a lousy thing to do to a new shooter. They're the most difficult of all handguns to shoot. Look to a Kahr CW9, S&W Shield, G43; something along those lines. I promise she'll shoot it much better and I don't think reliability is going to be an issue. You've referenced compact 9's as alternatives. Would you look past 380's? Because a .38+P is very close to a 9. But a .380 would probably serve you better than a small frame revolver.
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Campfire Outfitter
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I firmly recommend against small revolvers for inexperienced shooters or those who won't practice regularly.
A tiny sight radius with nearly non-existent sights, a long and heavy trigger pull that's completely disproportional to its weight, a weight which makes the recoil even worse with the tiny grip.
Any woman who can use a smart phone or DVD player can insert a magazine and rack a slide without confusion. I agree, so long as the gun chosen functions for the shooter with carry ammo when shooting from retention, strong hand only, weak hand only, and with a really mushy grip. (That is the standard I use for me.) My wife currently likes the Glock 43 compared to all of the revolvers and autos she has carried over the years. For pure shooting, she likes plinking with the Ruger SR22.
"Don't believe everything you see on the Internet" - Abraham Lincoln
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Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
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I'm looking pretty hard at G43, LC9s Pro (no external safety) and M&P shield with no ext safety.
It looks like the bore height of the G43 is lower than the others, maybe that's why chicks dig it?
Something clever here.
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Campfire Ranger
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I'd definitely prefer the G43 to the Ruger or the Smith, but that is just me.
I'm sure all three would serve well.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis
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Campfire Ranger
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MacKay, I have always been a revolver user.. But now own a Para. .45 1911, Springfield Armory .45 1911, and two Glocks..I know what you mean when you spoke of your .44 freezing up.. Happened to my model 28..
The main hang up I have with my semiautos, is leaving the clip loaded for days without use.. Maybe I am just out of date, but do you have a system for keeping the ammo in the auto from "setting the spring" in the clip???
This was a problem I heard about years ago.. Perhaps with today's metals it is not a problem.. First and foremost, I have ZERO hard data on the subject and cannot speak with authority, merely give an opinion, so take that for what it is worth. I read about the problem years ago, and contemplated on it a numerous times. I noted that "experts" were all over the map on the topic. The punchline is that if I am honestly worried about spring set on a magazine that will be loaded for years, I would simply download by a single round. What I HAVE found to be a problem sometimes, is with mags that are super tight getting the last round in, and with a slide forward, it being extremely difficult to fully seat the mag. Once again, the solution was to download a single round. The one exception is AR mags, where no matter if they are P mags, GI mags or whatever, they get loaded with 28 in a 30 and 18 in a 20. This has eliminated seating issues, and has worked for years. Back to handgun mags, I have had some Glock mags with extended base plates, and extra power springs that were a bear to get the last round(s) in. Leaving them fully loaded for a month or so, eliminated the problem. On mags I use for work/carry, or guns I keep loaded in the home, I load to full capacity and don't worry about them sitting for long times. buying a few replacement springs every X number of years is no big deal to me. I honestly think it is less of an issue than many make it out to be. Gun springs are pretty reasonably cheap though and Wolff Gun Springs sells them by the 10 pack. As far as the original topic goes, I think having the girls shoot what they are comfortable with, revolver or auto, is a fine idea. I did not want to discourage the use of revolvers, just discuss the reality of their usage.
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL. The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world. The website is up and running!www.lostriverammocompany.com
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Mackay, got a round count to the failure on that 442? A rough guesstimate would be good enough, I wonder about the longevity of the aluminum J's.
This is PURELY a guess, but maybe 2,000 on the high end. I have shot probably 500 rounds through it in the last year alone though, and while it is out of commission temporarily, I honestly think it is a minor issue. The problem is that it is my BUG gun for work, and if I need a BUG, things have gone horribly wrong, and I need it to be ultra reliable. I am familiar with the operation of the internal workings of S&W guns, but I also know my limitations. I would feel better if the entire gun was gone through by someone who does it every day. The fact is that unless there is some catastrophic issue, I don't think the revolver is even close to seeing the end of its service life.
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL. The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world. The website is up and running!www.lostriverammocompany.com
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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As far as the original topic goes, I think having the girls shoot what they are comfortable with, revolver or auto, is a fine idea. I did not want to discourage the use of revolvers, just discuss the reality of their usage.
The input is very much appreciated. I am still contemplating LCR in .22 WMR for my daughter. But we would have to actually handle one and at least have an opportunity to dry fire. This would give some idea as to trigger weight and ability to hold on target while taking up that DA pull. It could be a good choice for her, she has some concerns with wrist strength due to an old injury, also anything with too many "switches and buttons" could be a bit overwhelming for her to start out with. Otherwise I like the idea of striker fire "safe action" types of pistols, probably single stack to keep the width down. G43, shield and LC9s pro have my attention currently for 9mm single stacks. It seems the shield and LC9s have a slight advantage in concealment over the G43 (ever so slight). But it also seems the G23 might be nicer to shoot out of the 3, a little less leverage on the wrist and the glock slide might be heavier than the ruger and the shield slide (speculating). But I'm also looking at 380's Although everybody seems to hate on it, the G42 seems interesting.
Something clever here.
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MacKay, Thanks for the info.. Sets my mind at ease!!
Molon Labe
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