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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 35,293
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 35,293 |
Lots of women, young women in particular are getting carry permits these days.
I know a few, probably 4 different females That aren't exactly avid shooters but they are getting carry permits. (I expect some push back on that statement so I will clarify in advance that I will help these ladies practice and become familiar with what ever the choice may be. And I will encourage they practice on their own as frequently as possible)
I'm going to toss out some thoughts, because I will be looked at to advise these women on firearms selections.
Please do tell me where I'm wrong because I'm more interested in their safety and their needs than I am worried about being right.
As my post title states, I'm leaning in the J frame (642/442) and LCR direction.
Here are some of my reasons.
Function under stress. I see a "hammerless" revolver as a very simple tool, no more complex than a push button flashlight. Functionally, it will simply work. It's loaded, you just point it at the danger and pull the trigger until it is out of bang noises. It wont fail to feed, wont FTE, none of that. In the odd case that a primer fails to ignite you just pull the trigger again (self clearing).
Here are some cons that I have sort of... justified.
Capacity is 5 in .38. But that's a 5 count of no bullshit, no dicking around with clearing malfunctions. It's 5 shots that will not fail you.
Reloading speed. Yes, this is true. But these women aren't going to carry extra mags anyways so I'm calling this one irrelevant.
Width disadvantage due to cylinder? I think they are around 1-1/4" to 1.3" at the wide point (cylinder). A lot of single stacks go an inch or better in width. I don't know, I don't have a good argument for compact revolver width vs small pistol width other than to say "not much difference here".
Well, there are my thoughts on the matter. I'm putting compact revolvers against little 380 strikers. Glock 42, LCR, M&P bodyguard etc.
Those pistols are all great little guns but I'm thinking keep it simple.
Ok, turn loose with your relentless dismantling of my ideas/theories here.
Thanks.
Something clever here.
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Joined: Aug 2015
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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A small revolver is not a bad choice. You should take said ladies to the LGS and have them handle and manipulate a variety of suitable pistols/revolvers.
My wife prefers small autos. She picked out both a Kahr CW9 and a S&W Shield.
The ability to rack the slide and handle the trigger pull is the limiting factor for most women. Took a friend and his wife out shooting recently, she wanted a carry piece. She shot several of my compact pistols and ended up picking herself out a G43 at her LGS.
Let's Go Brandon! FJB
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Joined: Jan 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
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I haven't fired an LCR (yet) but they sure get good marks. The thing to remember for lady shooters is it's not just a smaller hand, it's a weaker hand, so you have to consider trigger pull in the decision. Of course the flip side is strength for racking a slide on an auto vs. the heavier trigger pull in a revolver.
I just ordered his and her LC9s pro's so will give some feedback once we put some lead down range. I figure if my wife doesn't like it, it will be easy enough to sell and try and LCR. She didn't care for the trigger pull of a taurus 605 so that biased me against the DA revolver. I figured the loaded and racked LC9 with a good trigger was a better choice.
To my way of thinking, whether or not its an inexperienced shooter or an experienced shooter, a load it and pull the trigger when you need to use it gun is the way to go. Whether or not it's a revolver or small autoloader is up to debate.
My thinking on going identical with his/her pistols is same platform for training, and God forbid one of us is incapacitated and needs to use the others CCW, same magazines and same ammo.
IMHO being competent with a handgun requires weekly range time, and that's after getting the basics down.
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Joined: Sep 2004
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Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 35,293 |
thanks guy, good points made, good feedback.
Something clever here.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,059
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,059 |
Also for the ladies this website by a lady about women and guns. http://www.corneredcat.com/
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Joined: Nov 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
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the small revolvers will work particularly if you tune the thing with some trigger work. Now here is my experience. My wife is not a gun person, I fight her to get to the range 1-2 times a year and make sure she can still hit the broad side of the barn. I have tried her with two steel frame hammerless smith and wesson pistol, and a heavier SP101, all guns had trigger jobs. The SP101 a fellow chucked up the main spring and turned it down, trigger pull was amazing and it lit every cartridge we shot in it.
She was slow and not particularly accurate with any of the 3.
I bought her a Kahr PM380 which she likes a lot as there is negligible recoil and she shoots half again size groups as with the revolvers. The longer double action trigger pull in the revolvers contributes to being off target. Plus its a longer reach for her finger to engage the trigger on a revolver. Then she will carry the thing as it is not a big gun, thus more fashionable.
edited to add- trigger pulls on the ruger 380, smith bodyguard 380 and Kiltec 380 are horrible, if you want to try a 380 get that little Kahr CW 380 I have one of those as well and I cannot tell the difference in it and the PM380.
Last edited by jimmyp; 11/25/15.
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,377
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,377 |
My wife is on medicare and has arthritis in both thumbs and shoots a Glock 19 and is quite good w/ it. From a low ready position she can shoot 6 shots into 6"x12" in 3 seconds on demand.
The slides on all our 19s have generous quantities of stair tape on them to aid in working the slide and have oversize slide releases. Her frame and trigger have been reduced via dremel and has fine stippling.
We spend about 30 minutes/week working dry fire and defense scenarios and she is very confident in her skills.
I have met few women that enjoy shooting a 2" revolver or that will practice enough w/ one to maintain minimum efficiency. That being said anything is better than nothing so a Ruger .22 LCR might work w/ lots of practice and regular dryfire.
Mike r
Last edited by lvmiker; 11/25/15.
Don't wish it were easier
Wish you were better
Stab them in the taint, you can't put a tourniquet on that.
Craig Douglas ECQC
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317 |
From multiple reviews, the Ruger LC9 which has an internal hammer has a terrible trigger. But that's the model they make in all the pretty colors.
The LC9s and LC9s pro have strikers and reportedly one of the best triggers out there. The pro model has no magazine disconnect, so will fire without a magazine and no external safety.
The ideal would be go to a range where various types of handguns could be test fired to see what gun the lady prefers.
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,787
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,787 |
Lots of women, young women in particular are getting carry permits these days.
I know a few, probably 4 different females That aren't exactly avid shooters but they are getting carry permits. (I expect some push back on that statement so I will clarify in advance that I will help these ladies practice and become familiar with what ever the choice may be. And I will encourage they practice on their own as frequently as possible)
I'm going to toss out some thoughts, because I will be looked at to advise these women on firearms selections.
Please do tell me where I'm wrong because I'm more interested in their safety and their needs than I am worried about being right.
As my post title states, I'm leaning in the J frame (642/442) and LCR direction.
Here are some of my reasons.
Function under stress. I see a "hammerless" revolver as a very simple tool, no more complex than a push button flashlight. Functionally, it will simply work. It's loaded, you just point it at the danger and pull the trigger until it is out of bang noises. It wont fail to feed, wont FTE, none of that. In the odd case that a primer fails to ignite you just pull the trigger again (self clearing).
Here are some cons that I have sort of... justified.
Capacity is 5 in .38. But that's a 5 count of no bullshit, no dicking around with clearing malfunctions. It's 5 shots that will not fail you.
Reloading speed. Yes, this is true. But these women aren't going to carry extra mags anyways so I'm calling this one irrelevant.
Width disadvantage due to cylinder? I think they are around 1-1/4" to 1.3" at the wide point (cylinder). A lot of single stacks go an inch or better in width. I don't know, I don't have a good argument for compact revolver width vs small pistol width other than to say "not much difference here".
Well, there are my thoughts on the matter. I'm putting compact revolvers against little 380 strikers. Glock 42, LCR, M&P bodyguard etc.
Those pistols are all great little guns but I'm thinking keep it simple.
Ok, turn loose with your relentless dismantling of my ideas/theories here.
Thanks. Dave, While I am a very big fan of the J frame series of revolvers, and the 442/642 in particular, don't think for a minute that they are always 100%. I am currently waiting on a return shipping label for my 442. The short version is that the cylinder started binding, and I discovered that the firing pin was staying in the forward position, and not retracting. Off it goes to the factory. This is not the first time I have shot a revolver to the point of malfunction. Environmental factors play in too. I had one literally freeze up, after I took a fall into the deep snow, and my goretex jacket was partially unzipped. The gun as closer to body temp, than ambient temp, and when the snow contacted it, it froze up rather quickly in spite of being externally brushed off. Revolvers are great for new shooters, but they are not any more reliable than some new service autos. Cheers! OUT OF ACTION: ![[Linked Image]](http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/Handguns/photo%2014_zpspkjhilsp.jpg)
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL. The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world. The website is up and running!www.lostriverammocompany.com
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,271
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,271 |
Yep. And dirt & debris from a pocket or purse can jam them up. Or a bad guy clamps his hand on the gun during a struggle, and the cylinder won't rotate. All that said, women will like what they like, and get annoyed if they don't like your suggestion.  Try to find a range that rents different guns, so they can try a variety of them. Steer them away from poor quality or inadequate caliber - otherwise let them pick what they like. A couple of women have really liked this gun: ![[Linked Image]](http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww127/tex_n_cal/m60pro-sm_zps13fd3e4d.jpg) The last woman I took shooting tried a couple of my revos, but then immediately went for a Kahr K9.
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 17,757
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 17,757 |
MacKay, I have always been a revolver user.. But now own a Para. .45 1911, Springfield Armory .45 1911, and two Glocks..I know what you mean when you spoke of your .44 freezing up.. Happened to my model 28..
The main hang up I have with my semiautos, is leaving the clip loaded for days without use.. Maybe I am just out of date, but do you have a system for keeping the ammo in the auto from "setting the spring" in the clip???
This was a problem I heard about years ago.. Perhaps with today's metals it is not a problem..
Molon Labe
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Joined: Sep 2004
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Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 35,293 |
All that said, women will like what they like, and get annoyed if they don't like your suggestion.  yep
Something clever here.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 73,096
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 73,096 |
IMHO "set" in magazine springs are a myth, I have a couple of Colts, a 1908 vest pocket .25 that has had the magazine loaded since about 1923. Yes the ammo get fired out every 6-7 months and reloaded. Same for a 1903 .32 and a Colt government that has had all 4 mags loaded since1980 or so. Never a bobble in any of them.
I have worked on WWII 1911's that have been loaded since the forties and they also have always worked just fine.
George Orwell was a Prophet, not a novelist. Read 1984 and then look around you!
Old cat turd!
"Some men just need killing." ~ Clay Allison.
I am too old to fight but I can still pull a trigger. ~ Me
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Joined: Feb 2011
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 17,757 |
Molon Labe
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 35,293
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 35,293 |
Most everybody is blowing some pretty good holes in my revolver ideas. Due in a large part by the DA trigger pull.
The LCR is said to have a nicer, non stacking pull. That said, I've also heard it is more difficult to stage the DA pull on the LCR... I doubt that's important for the context of the intended use here though.
So, although it's probably a bit early for me to bail on the revolver thoughts, I can't help but wonder if I should be focusing on only the 380's in compact semi autos?
LC380, Beretta "Pica", glock 42..... PPK?
mymindisfulloffuck
Something clever here.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,086
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,086 |
Yes, I have also heard and read of that "problem." Thanks for your input T Lee.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 |
Lots of women, young women in particular are getting carry permits these days.
I know a few, probably 4 different females That aren't exactly avid shooters but they are getting carry permits. (I expect some push back on that statement so I will clarify in advance that I will help these ladies practice and become familiar with what ever the choice may be. And I will encourage they practice on their own as frequently as possible)
I'm going to toss out some thoughts, because I will be looked at to advise these women on firearms selections.
Please do tell me where I'm wrong because I'm more interested in their safety and their needs than I am worried about being right.
As my post title states, I'm leaning in the J frame (642/442) and LCR direction.
Here are some of my reasons.
Function under stress. I see a "hammerless" revolver as a very simple tool, no more complex than a push button flashlight. Functionally, it will simply work. It's loaded, you just point it at the danger and pull the trigger until it is out of bang noises. It wont fail to feed, wont FTE, none of that. In the odd case that a primer fails to ignite you just pull the trigger again (self clearing).
Here are some cons that I have sort of... justified.
Capacity is 5 in .38. But that's a 5 count of no bullshit, no dicking around with clearing malfunctions. It's 5 shots that will not fail you.
Reloading speed. Yes, this is true. But these women aren't going to carry extra mags anyways so I'm calling this one irrelevant.
Width disadvantage due to cylinder? I think they are around 1-1/4" to 1.3" at the wide point (cylinder). A lot of single stacks go an inch or better in width. I don't know, I don't have a good argument for compact revolver width vs small pistol width other than to say "not much difference here".
Well, there are my thoughts on the matter. I'm putting compact revolvers against little 380 strikers. Glock 42, LCR, M&P bodyguard etc.
Those pistols are all great little guns but I'm thinking keep it simple.
Ok, turn loose with your relentless dismantling of my ideas/theories here.
Thanks. LCR. Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 |
Revolvers are great for new shooters, but they are not any more reliable than some new service autos.
Statements like this come from people that actually shoot revolvers instead of jerking off to them. Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 35,293
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 35,293 |
Lots of women, young women in particular are getting carry permits these days.
I know a few, probably 4 different females That aren't exactly avid shooters but they are getting carry permits. (I expect some push back on that statement so I will clarify in advance that I will help these ladies practice and become familiar with what ever the choice may be. And I will encourage they practice on their own as frequently as possible)
I'm going to toss out some thoughts, because I will be looked at to advise these women on firearms selections.
Please do tell me where I'm wrong because I'm more interested in their safety and their needs than I am worried about being right.
As my post title states, I'm leaning in the J frame (642/442) and LCR direction.
Here are some of my reasons.
Function under stress. I see a "hammerless" revolver as a very simple tool, no more complex than a push button flashlight. Functionally, it will simply work. It's loaded, you just point it at the danger and pull the trigger until it is out of bang noises. It wont fail to feed, wont FTE, none of that. In the odd case that a primer fails to ignite you just pull the trigger again (self clearing).
Here are some cons that I have sort of... justified.
Capacity is 5 in .38. But that's a 5 count of no bullshit, no dicking around with clearing malfunctions. It's 5 shots that will not fail you.
Reloading speed. Yes, this is true. But these women aren't going to carry extra mags anyways so I'm calling this one irrelevant.
Width disadvantage due to cylinder? I think they are around 1-1/4" to 1.3" at the wide point (cylinder). A lot of single stacks go an inch or better in width. I don't know, I don't have a good argument for compact revolver width vs small pistol width other than to say "not much difference here".
Well, there are my thoughts on the matter. I'm putting compact revolvers against little 380 strikers. Glock 42, LCR, M&P bodyguard etc.
Those pistols are all great little guns but I'm thinking keep it simple.
Ok, turn loose with your relentless dismantling of my ideas/theories here.
Thanks. LCR. Travis Thanks. Would you stick with the .38 or drop to a rimfire, possibly .22 magnum? Brings another question, the J frames go to an uber heavy trigger pull for their rim fires. Do you know if the LCR has a crazy heavy trigger in rim fire models?
Something clever here.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,656
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Posts: 24,656 |
Small revolvers IMO are a lousy thing to do to a new shooter. They're the most difficult of all handguns to shoot. Look to a Kahr CW9, S&W Shield, G43; something along those lines. I promise she'll shoot it much better and I don't think reliability is going to be an issue.
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