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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000 |
Not if you want to shoot the horse and the guy on the other side of the horse. actually that is kind of important in a way to me. I like the capability to penetrate a car/truck door. Somebody took a shot years ago at me in my s10blazer, bullet impacted right above the driver side door latch, and inch or two down from the window. Did not penetrate the door. A few inches higher and it would have got me. It was good the guy wasn't using the right gun or round.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,098
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,098 |
Two of the reasons we switched to the Sig over the 45 was barrier penetration, and flatter trajectory.
Our area was very rural, and the chances were just as good about us having to engage someone at longer distances that the typical 7-10 feet.
I've talked to people from several agencies who issue the Sig round and none of them are unhappy with it, usually most really like it, and none have complained of the supposed issues it has that Kevin Gibson keeps bringing up,
IE: increased muzzle flash/blast, increased recoil
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,093
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,093 |
a DPS Trooper told me a few years ago that barrier penetration was a factor in their choice.
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
Why would anyone shoot at person more than 10 feet away? You could just run away...
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,508
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2005
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Why would anyone shoot at person more than 10 feet away? You could just run away... Hmm? If they are pointing a gun at you , then you likely will not outrun the bullets, unless of course you are Superman, but then why would you run?
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,780
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,780 |
Now we're talking! 
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,690
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,690 |
I keep threatening to do it, and one of these days, I'm going to buy a 357 Sig barrel for my G35.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
Why would anyone shoot at person more than 10 feet away? You could just run away... Hmm? If they are pointing a gun at you , then you likely will not outrun the bullets, unless of course you are Superman, but then why would you run? But so many on the Campfire say cops shouldn't shoot people that are out of arms reach.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,093
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,093 |
Not all bad guys are 140 and skinny as a rail. One might have punch through heavy clothing and a foot of fat.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,094
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,094 |
The agency I worked for adopted the 357 Sig in glock 31 pistols as a duty firearm about my two years before I left
The 125 grain Gold dot is a great round.
A couple of incidents I remember were both critters, but two different circumstances.
The first involved a horse struck by a tractor trailer, the animal laid almost in the center of the road, and With houses and rubberneckers I decided not to risk a ricochet by shooting the animal in the head, so I fired a double tap through the ribs right behind the shoulder.
Upon rolling the animal over to remove it from the roadway we found both slugs exited the off side and embedded into the blacktop
The second was a road hit whitetail, that was thrashing about in a marshy area, and I wasn't wading out to shoot it.
I used the hood of my Tahoe as a rest and made and head shot at and bout 70 yards.dispatching the deer.
That shot was taken with a Sig P226
I'd like to see the 9mm boys do that.
Our Game commission switched to the 357 Sig from Smith 586 revolvers, every one I talk to says they are having great results on Black bear with it
I'm a civilian and haven't taken any game with the 357 Sig but can crunch melon sized snow clumps at a hundred yards with my P226 after a sighter or two with very little hold-over it seems. This is with the 124-gr loads. That's pretty flat for a low recoiling semi-auto cartridge.
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,098
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,098 |
George coming from carrying a 45 with 230 Grain Gold Dots, it's a freaking laser beam
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000 |
Not all bad guys are 140 and skinny as a rail. One might have punch through heavy clothing and a foot of fat. number of years ago they use to show this training video where some state trooper stops a really big fat guy in the south. trooper dumped a cylinder full of .357mag in the guy, but not putting him down. black guy fires i think a .25acp hitting trooper in the carotid artery in the neck, he died.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,850
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,850 |
....The 357 Sig will push 124's ~1450 fps and 147's ~1250 fps.
The 1450 is pretty ambitious as most chronograph tests I've seen show top MV at about 1350 fps for the 124s in the 357 SIG case. Very good velocity from the +/- 4" barrels the 357 SIG is usually shot from for LE or SD purposes. To get to 1450 fps - duplicating the 4" 125 gn. 357 Mag load - it takes a 9x23 class cartridge, usually in a 5" pistol at factory spec pressure, about 55K psi. We may be splitting hairs as the SIG is a very capable round that provides very significant penetration and consistently adequate wounding capability. I don't carry the 357 SIG but know at least one LEO who carries it off-duty and having seem him shoot his G-23, it is a very effective choice.
Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty of give me death! P. Henry
Deus vult!
Rhodesians all now
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,965
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,965 |
I've had a 40 S&W BHP rebarreled to 357 SIG. Just got it back from the gunsmith. Haven't shot it yet.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,058
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,058 |
I, too, need to get a .357 bbl for my G35, but awhile back bought a G32 OEM bbl and dropped it into my ol' issued G27 (which I bought when we switched to 23s).Packs easily and shoots to point of aim at 15 yards. [img:left] ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/elrata/image_zps562e1da2.jpg) [/img]
�When in doubt, I whip it out.� Uncle Ted ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/elrata/imagejpg1_zps585f4bbf.jpg)
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,094
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,094 |
....The 357 Sig will push 124's ~1450 fps and 147's ~1250 fps.
The 1450 is pretty ambitious as most chronograph tests I've seen show top MV at about 1350 fps for the 124s in the 357 SIG case. Very good velocity from the +/- 4" barrels the 357 SIG is usually shot from for LE or SD purposes. To get to 1450 fps - duplicating the 4" 125 gn. 357 Mag load - it takes a 9x23 class cartridge, usually in a 5" pistol at factory spec pressure, about 55K psi. We may be splitting hairs as the SIG is a very capable round that provides very significant penetration and consistently adequate wounding capability. I don't carry the 357 SIG but know at least one LEO who carries it off-duty and having seem him shoot his G-23, it is a very effective choice. The Buff Bore Hvy 357 Sig 125-grain is listed at 1450 fps. I haven't shot then through the lie-detector yet to see if this is truth in advertisement or wishful thinking.
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 10,786
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 10,786 |
I won't speak to velocity, but here's what I KNOW based on experience:
A 125 gr. Gold Dot will shoot POA/POI through a windshield....... Various 9mm (to include +P), .40 and .45 "duty" ammo, not so much.
The same round did much better shooting into (through) vehicle panels.
The "flash" issue is bullchiit.
George
�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000 |
The same round did much better shooting into (through) vehicle panels.
That has always been a big thing to me.
Plus the windshield.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000 |
I always as a joke said the true test is penetrating the car door, three fat (bleeps) and going out the other side.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000 |
I had a friend of mine stop a guy years ago when everybody was packing smith model 19's. The guy stopped turned around and dumped a hi cap magazine of 9's through the windshield of the patrol car. Gordon bought a bulldog as a backup the next weekend.
I grew up in the revolver era, and still feel comfortable with them to some extent.
Having said that, I don't think anyone ever said they had too much capacity in those situations. A belt fed gun would be nice.
The other choice is something like a glock where you can put hi cap mags through it, using that .357sig. To me, it's like having the model 19 without having to go to speed loaders.
Sometimes those confrontations go down real quick.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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