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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
MM,
I will leave those scenarios to the Soldiers of Fortune on the forum.
I will only fire as a last resort. I don't think I would enjoy prison life. Some people obviously die easier than others.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
I don't train much these days either. But even if I'm only going to shoot 50 rounds, I'll shoot 40 doing close range drills, and 10 of them at some distance. Do you do any unaimed? Point-shooting or the like? Or do you only do aimed fire? I've got to where I do a lot of 7 yard practicing. The more I did unaimed fire even from close range, the more I think aimed fire is the way to go.
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,487
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,487 |
A lot of these 'active shooter' situations in public places like shopping areas, malls, theaters, restaurants, schools, workplace, etc, etc, have 'terrain' that could easily put you in a defensive situation at a distances well beyond 7 yards. MontanaMarine…..absolutely agree; we need to train at distance and with multiple "no shoots" to include "shoot thru" targets……however your typical concealed carrying civilian shooting at 50 yards thru a crowded mall, theater, restaurant, school, workplace is certainly not prudent and possibly not defensible in court assuming that it isn't successful with the first shot……not saying it isn't possible nor that we shouldn't train for it, just that (as the original poster said) that the average civilian in a concealed carry class should be told it's generally a VERY bad idea.
The blindness from subjectivity is indistinguishable from the darkness of ignorance.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,698
Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,698 |
There was a home invasion in town here awhile ago.
Some guy had a an intruder come in through the back door while two were coming in the front door.
They pistol whipped him and took some cash and who knows what else.
Why do I think he maybe was a drug dealer?
I have never heard of any long range gun battles around here.
I think the best strategy is to stay out of these situations. I am retired and live in the country
and am familiar with the Ithaca 37 LAPD.
I like to do my hunting BEFORE I pull the trigger!
There is only one kind of dead, but there are many different kinds of wounded.
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
That's why I never drive anywhere I could get into an accident...
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,698
Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,698 |
I like to do my hunting BEFORE I pull the trigger!
There is only one kind of dead, but there are many different kinds of wounded.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 |
My son is 14 fugking years old and I can promise you don't want to be a coffee can at 50yds if he's shooting his Model 14 in that direction.
Anybody that can't make solid hits with a pistol at 50yds is a moron, or lazy.
Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,487
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,487 |
My son is 14 fugking years old and I can promise you don't want to be a coffee can at 50yds if he's shooting his Model 14 in that direction.
Anybody that can't make solid hits with a pistol at 50yds is a moron, or lazy.
Travis …..well flave, he's not an "average civilian"……..he won the heredity and environment lottery from the get-go. BTW, how do those compare to dog years?
The blindness from subjectivity is indistinguishable from the darkness of ignorance.
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,050
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,050 |
I don't train much these days either. But even if I'm only going to shoot 50 rounds, I'll shoot 40 doing close range drills, and 10 of them at some distance. Do you do any unaimed? Point-shooting or the like? Or do you only do aimed fire? I've got to where I do a lot of 7 yard practicing. The more I did unaimed fire even from close range, the more I think aimed fire is the way to go. I only practice point shooting at 3 yards or so. I like to at least get a flash front sight beyond that distance.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,897
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,897 |
Gmoats, no way does the 50 yard adversary have to fire first, all he has to do is demonstrate intent to fire and one is justified in defending ones self
….at 50 yards "demonstrating intent" in most urban environments will be pretty hard to establish I'm guessing…..Out on the ranch, no problem…….on a crowded city street, different story…….if someone walks into a mall carrying a long gun, are you justified in shooting them??? Better not…….a few months ago, I friend of mine was in a Starbucks in Cheyenne. A guy walks in with a collapsible stock AK slung over his shoulder, ordered a cup of coffee and sat down……not sure where injudicious behavior ends and "demonstrating intent" starts…...of course, I could be wrong…. I'd say your guessing wrong. Some points a gun in my direction in an urban setting in a shooting position seems to make intent rather clear.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,897 |
Gmoats, no way does the 50 yard adversary have to fire first, all he has to do is demonstrate intent to fire and one is justified in defending ones self
You're in a "duty to retreat" state and your ex-wife comes rolling up to your place and gets out of her car with a handgun yelling that she's going to kill you. You're standing beside your masonary construction house and can just step inside and close the solid hardwood door, slam the dead bolt and call the cops. Instead you take a rest and kill her dead relying on your uber bear shooting skills. Hopefully you've got some bear-grease left over from your last kill for Tyrese to use on your ass. You might be wishing Tyrese didn't have such a big meplat. Making a lot of assumption here, hope the windows are bullet proof as well.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 26,524
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 26,524 |
Gmoats, no way does the 50 yard adversary have to fire first, all he has to do is demonstrate intent to fire and one is justified in defending ones self
You're in a "duty to retreat" state and your ex-wife comes rolling up to your place and gets out of her car with a handgun yelling that she's going to kill you. You're standing beside your masonary construction house and can just step inside and close the solid hardwood door, slam the dead bolt and call the cops. Instead you take a rest and kill her dead relying on your uber bear shooting skills. Hopefully you've got some bear-grease left over from your last kill for Tyrese to use on your ass. You might be wishing Tyrese didn't have such a big meplat. Making a lot of assumption here, hope the windows are bullet proof as well. Is Tyrese the name of the EE's Pedersoli?
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,897
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,897 |
Gmoats, no way does the 50 yard adversary have to fire first, all he has to do is demonstrate intent to fire and one is justified in defending ones self
You're in a "duty to retreat" state and your ex-wife comes rolling up to your place and gets out of her car with a handgun yelling that she's going to kill you. You're standing beside your masonary construction house and can just step inside and close the solid hardwood door, slam the dead bolt and call the cops. Instead you take a rest and kill her dead relying on your uber bear shooting skills. Hopefully you've got some bear-grease left over from your last kill for Tyrese to use on your ass. You might be wishing Tyrese didn't have such a big meplat. Making a lot of assumption here, hope the windows are bullet proof as well. Is Tyrese the name of the EE's Pedersoli? You maybe on to something! His EE putting on a few pounds? ![[Linked Image]](http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b489/jrobb400/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-11/FB_IMG_1447952730903_zpsa9jyd3ik.jpg)
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653 |
I'd like to know who the "Grand Master" was who "fell apart" in a scenario you put on. I probably should not have said "Grand Master" as I only know these people to be top shots and internationally known instructors...and it was not my shoot...it was the National Tactical Invitational... How many of those have you been to?
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000 |
that walking into the target is something i try to get people to do that are used to punching paper targets from a stationary position. as it was explained to me, people expect you to retreat, walking into the target gives you a psychological atvantage, as their little brains without thinking tell them to retreat. It is more difficult than it looks.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 |
…..well flave, he's not an "average civilian"……..he won the heredity and environment lottery from the get-go. BTW, how do those compare to dog years?
Not sure. I hate dogs.  Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,660
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,660 |
Gmoats, no way does the 50 yard adversary have to fire first, all he has to do is demonstrate intent to fire and one is justified in defending ones self
….at 50 yards "demonstrating intent" in most urban environments will be pretty hard to establish I'm guessing…..Out on the ranch, no problem…….on a crowded city street, different story…….if someone walks into a mall carrying a long gun, are you justified in shooting them??? Better not…….a few months ago, I friend of mine was in a Starbucks in Cheyenne. A guy walks in with a collapsible stock AK slung over his shoulder, ordered a cup of coffee and sat down……not sure where injudicious behavior ends and "demonstrating intent" starts…...of course, I could be wrong…. I'd say your guessing wrong. Some points a gun in my direction in an urban setting in a shooting position seems to make intent rather clear. When I took Ayoob's LFI way back in the '90's, I recall him talking about a case where someone shot a man holding a J frame S&W on him. The range was "long" (but I don't recall how "long"). Ayoob was called to testify because the DA chose to press charges on the grounds that a J frame at that range was no threat (I'm thinking it was somewhere between 25-50 yards). So Ayoob took out a J frame (on video) and put 3 our of 5 rounds onto a man sized target at 100 yards, which pretty much shot down (no pun intended) the DA's case.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317 |
Seems like instead of bragging that one can't hit a target at 50 yds, they should practice.
I don't ever recall anyone being criticized for being too good of a shot after a shooting.
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