Home Forums Reloading Varmint Rifles Whats the deal with little or no Remington or Winchester brass?

Has Remington and Winchester opted to get out of the business of offering brass for the reloading market? Seems Winchester and Remington have turned over brass production to Hornady, Lapua, Nosler & Privi. Yet there Is a little ammo to be found. Why very little or no brass?

17 fireball and 22 hornet are two offerings I have been watching for a long time now with nothing to be seen except a little factory ammo. I've been hoping commodity prices lowering just might encourage Remington in Winchester to get back into the supply business for those who prefer to roll their own.

Did give in and picked up a few factory 17 FB ammo recently. Must say that 17 FB 25 gr HP ammo is shooting quite well.

Ammo vs brass is probably a question of profit margin.

I haven't seen ANY new Remington brass in a couple years. What's out there is leftover older production. There's a little bit of Winchester .222, .223, .243, .270, and '06.

It's a different world than we lived in about 3 years ago and because of it, I've changed my process when it comes to new guns. I buy the brass first and don't buy a gun 'til I have enough to feed it.

OK Hornady, Lapua & Privi manage to operate a profitable business when commodity prices were high. Why not Remington and winchester?

If a CZ 17 fireball rifle is offered in the coming year like I understand they just might in at least a limited production run through Whittakers. By your reasoning guys should be stocking up on ammo now, and or making there own brass from the high quality Lapua 221 FB brass.

I might pick up the high quality Lapua 221 FB brass to be formed, though I would wait to get the rifle before starting to form the brass.

Remington has not offered new brass in over three years. Come to think about it, I haven't bought a new Remington rifle in over three years.

No rifle ammo to be offered, how can you expect to sell a firearm. You're right it is a different world.

I think TOM has it correct. Profit margin is better on production ammo than selling brass. With the demand still being high on ammo, including backlogs - most brass is going straight into production.

I too have been buying brass first then the rifle after finding enough to feed it.

It will be very interesting to see how quickly they sell out if they ever get back to the hard to find brass that varminters love. I know I'm waiting with intention to stock pile in most small calibers.

Hunterapp: Back when the 17 Remington Fireball was "new" I bought one of the fancier Remington 700 Varminters - its called a 700 VSF.
All I could get back then for testing and set-up was the Remington factory ammo (Remington 20 grain Accu-Tips).
I mounted a Nikon 6.5x20 scope on it and took it all to the range.
It shot SO well that first range session (after barrel break-in) that I considered just using factory ammo and not even handloading at all for it.
I took that Rifle and factory ammo to the range on two more occasions that month back in 2,007 and the LARGEST group (all five shotters at 100 yards) out of ten I shot measured, .586"!
Again, that was THE largest grouping.
It was a long time til I found factory brass for that Rifle but I eventually did.
I settled on the wonderful Berger 25 grain bullet for my best all around load/bullet.
I have NOT seen any Fireball brass on a gunstore shelf in 2+ years!
I do not know why.
I suspect, as others have pointed out, that the Remington, Winchester and Federal mentality is "there's MORE profit in selling factory ammo than in selling brass"!
Sad fact that.
I get calls all the time from friends looking for this brass or that brass and Varmint calibers are especially rare/sought after it seems.
Sadly I think that many American ammunition/component makers/sellers will never again stock stores shelves with ample supplies of brass like was the norm just a few years ago.
And again I suspect the profit driven motive behind this situation.
Good luck with the 17 Fireball I know I sure love mine.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

There may or may not be more profit in selling ammo, but one fact almost always overlooked in threads on the subject is that far more people don't handload than do--and if handloaders really want brass, they can always get it by buying ammo. If a shooter doesn't handload, empty brass doesn't do him any good.

As a result, if demand for ammo is high (and it has been for quite a while now) it makes more sense for the two biggest ammo companies in the U.S. to use their brass to make ammo, than set aside enough to satisfy the demands of handloaders, especially since many handloaders these days tend to want a "lifetime supply," however many cases they think that is.

I ran into the brass supply problem earlier this year after buying a 7mm-08. I hadn't owned one in a while and didn't have any brass (did have plenty of .308's, but also have more than one .308 and wanted to use it in them). 7-08 brass was very scarce, but I did find a good sale on Hornady American Whitetail ammo loaded with the 139-grain Interlock Spire Point--which is the primary bullet I intended to handload anyway. Some basic math showed I'd be getting the brass for a pretty darn good price after using up the ammo (and these days I generally prefer Hornady brass to R and W anyway), so I ordered 5 boxes. Per usual, it shot under an inch in my rifle, at just about exactly the advertised velocity.

Yeah, I know that shooting factory ammo is a strange concept to many of us, but times have changed, and I'm not sure they're ever going to be the way they used to be again.

Obama said he wanted to transform America.

I don't doubt that Remington and Winchester are the two biggest ammo companies in the U.S. yet today but if so I'd think still a smaller and declining share of the market.

There is a tremendous assortment of U.S. made cartridge cases e.g. see .223/5.56 brass on the market including ATK and General Dynamics which are names I know and Silver(?) and others which I don't know and Doubletap which I don't associate with rifle brass and so it goes. But under brass for the .223 Remington cartridge by Remington, Midway says $0.34 - $0.40/Piece Unavailable - Limited Production. Brass for the .30-'06 Springfield is readily available but not per Midway from Remington or Winchester $0.50 - $0.56/Piece Unavailable - Limited Production

Mostly I'm asking for somebody who knows to talk a little bit about changes in the market place not just from the wild and crazy demand side but from the supply side with some historical perspective. Time was Olin started by making the brass and St. Marks was a place and not a powder company name. As far as I can tell the current folks would rather sell the Winchester name than engineer and market the products themselves. Just as Winchester under Olin was pretty well integrated so too Remington under DuPont was part of a conglomerate with IMR and all the rest under one tent - not anymore. What follows from that for shooters?

Looks to me as though the current ownership/management at Remington doesn't want to compete in a commodity market and likely sees no value added by the Remington name in a commodity market - money has to be scarce in that group? Shortening the line as Hornady has done makes sense, abandoning the remaining market to Hornady and others puzzles me.

When I first started loading for 300 Weatherby it was cheaper for me to load 300 H&H brass and blow it out than it was to buy Weatherby branded brass. Those days are gone for sure.

If there is so much market demand, you'd think that some manufacturer, PP or S&B maybe, would step in to fill the void and harvest those reloaders' dollars that aren't being spent on Remington and Winchester/Olin brass.

John is correct, as usual.
I am repeatedly, repeatedly amazed at how many people don't reload. They'll have scads of iron in the safe and boxes and boxes of factory fodder.
And they keep buying it, at prices ridiculous to us handloading fools. So as long as there's brass that can be made into factory food that SELLS, that's where it's gonna go.

Shucks Seems we may have had an impact on the available 17 fireball ammo on line. day after I mentioned 17 fireball brass in this thread, the least expensive source of ammo was cleaned out. Today I can't find ammo at any price. Good thing I stocked up when the price was right and ammo was available.

Still hoping for some brass though I am not holding my breath. Beginning to think Nosler or Lapua will be offering 17 fireball brass B4 Remington offers another limited run.

O well If I should run out 17 FB brass is nice to know we can make our brass to order from some of the fine Lapua 221 FB brass with a bullet seater die and a full length die in the case of the 221 FB parent case. Neck turning likely would be advisable if not necessary.

Some times guys shake their head at me as to why I would bother reloading. I shake my head also, not at myself or other reloader folks though.

Dunno about Lapua .221 FB brass, but I've necked down Remington .221 FB and the necks didn't need turning when used in factory chambers.

I'm glad I started loading 300 wby when R-P brass was cheap as dirt and good chit. That was the only way I could afford to shoot my big gun....

Bottom Line Looks like I may need to cross the 17 FB brass off my christmas list for this year and perhaps even next.

Santa,

I have a early march birthday- that would work also.

Lots of Remington and Winchester brass out there, just in factory ammo right now.

Hornady Whitetail, 270 Win 130's $18.99/20. My cost to load NPT 2nds is $11.03/20.

Last time I checked I made more than $8.00/hr. Not worth the time to monkey with it.

Winchester brass in the white and blue bags were manufactured by Winchester. Supposedly Olin is no longer in the brass manufacturing business. The Winchester brass in the Red and Black printed bags is supposedly made by Hornady.

CraigD

That sounds about right. Disappointing to me to see less competition out there. Hats off to Hornady. Looks like they will be or are the major US manufacturer of centerfire ammo today. Most all others seem to be jobbing out ammo production over seas all to often.

My gut is telling me I may find Nosler or Hornady 17 FB brass b4 Remington is offering brass again.

Get the tar and feathers.