Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa PHs The Good and The Bad

I have only been on two safaris but I have been very fortunate in that both of my PHs were top rate. They never fired their guns the entire time. We only hunted in areas where we were supposed to hunt and they gave me the kind of hunt I expected (dangerous game - up close and exciting).

I have heard horror stories of PHs that automatically fired every time the client does as "insurance". I've heard of stories of where the client and hunter were kicked off of private land while hunting because the outfitter owed the landowner money from previous hunts, etc.

I've heard stories where the client's were left hanging, due to logistical problems, etc.

I've heard stories where client's never received their trophies, or were charged extra fees they didn't expect.

I've heard stories where clients were sold hunts in areas that did not have any of the major animals the clients were after.

I have also heard of hunts where the outfitter had run out of tags for certain animals, yet pretended to hunt them anyway.

I realize sometimes the fault is with the outfitter and not the PH.

Please share your stories about your PHs and/or outfitters, both good and bad, and what to watch out for.

BH

Join AR if you want that kind of depth -- lots of good and bad there. Not a chance I'd attempt to guide someone who has almost as much experience as me...

I have only made one hunt to Africa...10 day PG in the Eastern Cape this past May.

I actually hunted with a young Outfitter/PH who was in his first year (heck, first 5 months) on his licences.

I took a chance on a young guy starting out because he sold himself well and I always want to look for the good in folks.

He came through very well for my wife and I, and we had a great trip all the way around.

Of course, he has lots of experience to gain, and that will only make him an even better Outfitter and PH. But we were well pleased with his efforts, and the efforts of his staff.

We had nice accommodations, great food, good tracker/skinner, good animals. Trophies should be hitting the states in about a month!

Tim

I never had a problem because I went through a reputable booking agent (Atcheson's--Keith Atcheson has booked me once for Alaska and for two different areas of Zim). and checked five or more references before committing to any outfitter. Suggest you do the same.

I've hunted five times in Africa and have only had two PH's. The guy in SA was very good, but then I went to Zim and have never been back to SA. I've had the same PH for my four Zim trips. He stayed with me for a few days last year during the show season and he and his new wife will be staying with us again in a couple weeks. I guess you could say we "hit it off".

Mike

My wife and I went through a booking agent for a 2000 plains game hunt in the Limpopo Province of RSA. I was confident because we had used the same booking agent for an adventure in New Zealand a couple of years before that.

NOT.

The hunting trip was good, but the booking agent and the outfitter ended up being total POSs as someone didn't pay someone and, although we got our trophies back, it took almost 2 years.

Without the help of one of the Jr. PHs on that hunt, that we really hit it off with, we may have never gotten them back.

The PH, KUKUZANS, is no longer in business, and deceased, so I've heard, but the booking agent still is.

We rewarded the Jr. PH, who now has his our game ranch in the Free State of the RSA, with a 2015 Safari booking, including Cape Buffalo and plains game.

A great, and successful time was had by all!

donsm70

Thanks for the posts.

I have heard some real zingers of safari contracts where you got charged the trophy fee, if you had a shot and didn't take it, etc.

For me, if I am paying thousands of dollars to shoot an animal, I want to make sure I have a reasonable shot (i.e. not a glimpse of a buff's backside running away at full speed 100 yards away into some thick brush) and that I am the one who kills the animal, not the PH.

Thanks.

BH63

I've been on one RSA and three Nambian plains game hunts. Really liked hunting with Thomas in Namibia, his son not so much. The RSA PH wasn't what I would call an experienced hunter and the best time hunting was when just the tracker and I went a field. Plus the RSA guide never showered during our 10 days and to say he got ripe would be an understatement.

Robert Ruark's take of his first safari with the legendary Harry Selby is some of his best writing, I have no desires to hunt Africa mostly because it could never live up to experiences and adventures those two had.

I guess to each his own, but I would rather experience something first hand and make my own memories, rather than just read about the great experiences others have had.

As far as great PHs, you just never know. I hunted elephant with Kirk Mason back in 2003 and I believe he has to be one of the best "white" hunters in the world. I have never met anyone who was so intense about hunting.

His intense desire to hunt reminded me of a German Shorthair Pointer I once had the privilege of owning. And believe me, that is one sincere compliment.

If you can afford it, I would recommend anyone who has ever dreamed of tracking elephant, or Cape buffalo to take that trip now, as each year seems to increase the cost and decrease the available opportunities. JMO.

BH63

Capstick wrote very well about the difference in "shooting" elephants and "hunting" elephants.

Today I don't believe it to be possible to hunt truly wild elephants, now buffalo on the other hand I would love to give a go, what scares me the thought that I might really enjoy it and much like a heroin addict I might do desperate things to finance my new found addiction.

With all due respect sir, that statement pretty much shows that you have no idea.....

The ellie I killed back in 2004 was certainly a wild elephant. He even had two old bullets in his body that the skinners recovered. One looked to be a .303 and the other an AK round. His life certainly was totally wild. He had a short section of his trunk missing, from what was probably a poacher's snare. Nothing at all semi-tame about that old character. He even had white hairs on his tail from some of his exploits.

I would expect many of these elephants still exist in Zimbabwe and other places where they roam totally free.

BH63

Well it certainly was possible in Zimbabwe in 2011 when I hunted and killed a very wild bull.

I've been with a number professional hunters in South Africa. Some were better than others but I can't say I ever had a bad one. I did, however, talk to some who had bad experiences.

One guy hunted with the legendary Out of Africa crew. Despite his request to stop for a rest, he was transported to Zimbabwe on a marathon drive in a cigarette smoke filled car. Then he was encourage to shoot a lion he couldn't really afford and told to pay later (in retrospect, considering the history of that outfit, it's possible there was no permit for said lion).

Another duo hunted with a PH on land where the animals were few and very skittish. They were advised to take shots they weren't comfortable with and then were charged for animals allegedly wounded. The PH was observed to drop some red stuff on the ground which was then claimed to be blood.

To be safe, you need to do some research first. Look at their web site. There is one idiot PH out there that won't allow use of all copper bullets like Barnes. Post questions or look at prior reviews on the various hunting forums regarding the outfit. Also personally communicate with ones who have actually hunted with the PH.

Agreed. At least the part about "truly wild elephants". There's plenty of wild elephant in Africa today.

Absolutely, do some research. And research doesn't mean "surf the web" and base your decision on websites and online reviews, although those are can be a good place to start.

Once you've done some research on where and what you'd like to hunt, you need to talk to real people about the various outfitters and PH's in the country/area of interest. Preferably, talk to people you know personally who have been there. Even better, talk to people you have hunted with and who share the same hunting values and preferences you do.

If you follow this advice, you'll end up with half a dozen recommendations, or less; and you can probably meet most of those PH's and/or outfitters at the annual DSC or SCI conventions. Talk to them personally, face to face, and get to know them a bit and about their operations.

This is what I did in the lead-up to my 2015 safari, and what I'm doing for my 2017 safari. I asked my prospective PH's how they like to hunt, what they look for in a hunter, what they try to avoid, what their priorities are... and by the time I'd interviewed the 5 guys I'd narrowed my search down to, it was really pretty easy to pick the one I wanted to go with.

There were no surprises or disappointments in my hunt, other than the unpredictability of the animals, weather, etc.

^
Good advice. I am down to about 3 outfits for my upcoming buff hunt.

For whatever reason, I have never read anything good about African hunts arranged by 24hourcampfire outfitters. I am sure there have been some good hunts, but everything I have ever heard or read was extremely negative.

BH63

Sounds like you're on the right track. If you can visit face to face with those outfits at any of the upcoming shows, that will be a huge bonus.

FWIW, the guy I thought I was going to go with, based on internet searches and emails and testimonials, did NOT impress me when we met in person at DSC in 2012. Rather, I was much more impressed by Lew Hallamore and John Sharp, and I believe I would have been happy with either. I chose John because of a few "intangibles" about hunting/shooting that we both feel strongly about, and in the end I was pleased with my decision.

As for 24HCF outfitters, I've heard and read good things from people I know well about some, including KMGSafaris and JJHACK. I'd not care to tar with quite so broad a brush.

BH63

Please share with me the issues involved with my business here. Anything you have heard or seen printed anyplace.

I'm one of the longest standing members of this site and I cannot recall anything like this?

If you search this forum for my name and look at the folks who have hunted with me, there is glowing reports of success and happiness!

BH63 - I'll second JJ's request. I did a lot of checking before booking my first hunt with him and it was a great hunt. The nice thing about that is I didn't have to spend any time checking references etc. when I booked my second trip with Jim. I've been on the campfire for quite some time and have never read anything negative about his operation. Nothing but positive reviews.

Well then, I'd like to take this opportunity to say I hunted with Marius Goosen of KMG Hunting Safaris and was very happy with my safari. I'll hunt with him again if I ever get a pass from my wife.

I'm one of the few here that can say he knew Capstick and has hunted elephant. I don't remember specifically that reference to elephants by PHC, but I'll look around.

I will say if you are on foot and approach within 50 yards or less, you are hunting, and there is still that experience if you want to cough up the fees. Nothing else quite like it. Wrong bullet placement and he's on you in a few quick steps. Fail to brain him, and you'll be dug out from between his toes for the post mortem.

Yeah, you can still do it.

Beg to differ. I've hunted Cameroon and those elephant are definitely wild! Most people with a couple of safaris under their belt also know that Capstick was for the most part full of [bleep]! He sold a lot of books but his hunting info is pretty sorry.

I agree with JJ, I've not heard of bad hunts here. I hunted with SS Pro Safaris, had a great time, I'd hunt with JJ in a heart beat. I think you over stated what's going on here.

He heard about safariman, that was the only bad one.

I have not hunted with JJ but I have communicate with him several times. He is reasonable and honest. Anyone who has posted here who hunted with him always gives rave reviews. I am sure some folks who have had a grand time with JJ haven not bother to post for a variety of reasons.

I have also communicated with Marius Goosen and can and will say the about him as I have said about JJ

I certainly hope that one particular comment was not directed at either these gentleman's way.It would be wrong to slag a good man even on the faceless internet.

All the best to yall

GRF

Gras Ranch in Namibia. Great accommodations, lots of game, amazing scenery. Highly recommend

JJ,

I did not state anything specifically about you (or your hunts). I have read many posters complain about PAC hunts that were arranged (or discovered) on this forum. These posts are not hard to find.

I also spoke to a long-time poster F2F, who told of a 24hourcampfire outfitter where he specifically wanted to hunt Buffalo, and he and the PH got run off of a landwowner's property, because, according to the landowner, the outfitter never paid him for the last animals killed on his property. He never did get his buffalo.

I don't honestly remember who the outfitter was in this instance.

I'm sure you have plenty of satisfied customers, and I realize, even outfitter's with the best of intentions, occasionally get skunked or run into un-foreseen circumstances.

I recently read on another forum, where a logistics problem resulted in the clients and staff being without hardly any food for parts of the hunt.

As I recall from the story, on one day, the client got a can of peaches to eat, and the PH got a can of beans. (My guess was that the supplies got stolen by some locals, but because this safari was in a hard-to-reach area, there wasn't time/resources available to replace the missing food.)

BH63

It could have been him, but I don't remember exactly. What was the complaint about him?

BH63

My rationale for starting this thread, was that basically people going on safari, put up large amounts of money, sometimes to people they really don't know. The potential for scams is really huge.

Most of the PHs, I have ever met and/or hunted with, have been decent, honest, hardworking individuals who sincerely want the client to get his trophies.

Also sometimes, the PH and the owner/outfitter don't always see eye-to-eye on availability of species, sliding fees, etc. I once had a PH argue with the owner over the trophy fee of a large ellie I had shot. My original booking was for a bull ellie of any size. After I had shot a 60# a side bull, the owner apparently "forgot" that arrangement and wanted more money. The PH had to remind the owner a couple of times, before the owner finally remembered.

So, like a used car dealer, an outfitter who seems like your best friend before the money changes hands, can suddenly stop returning your calls (or your money) if things don't go as planned.

BH63

Am I to understand that it is actually acceptable for a person to go into an area unfamiliar to him, hunting for species with which he has no experience, and hire someone to guide him in his hunt? Amazing the difference geography makes!

BH63, at the risk of turning this into a quarrel--which is not my intention--I'm afraid I don't understand this statement from your last post:



You state that you have a "rationale" for starting this thread, then you fail to state clearly what your "rationale" actually was and is. I can infer from this rambling incomplete first sentence, then the second (thankfully complete) sentence that you think that people are being scammed. That is hardly a "rationale".

Most of us who frequent this forum are experienced to some degree with recent events and hunts in Africa. We are eager to share our experiences with each other, to help guide others looking to hunt Africa to find their own great quality hunting adventure.

By your own admission, your own African experience is quite out-of-date. I can understand you wanting to catch up, benefiting from the more recent experience of the rest of us, to increase your chances of getting a good hunt yourself next time. Good, that's what this forum is here for! But why are you looking for more specific tales of woe? To help you avoid the bad white hunters? It would seem not, since you've already booked your 2016 safari!

You have made the claim in this thread that there are many examples of African outfitters promoting scams on this forum, and that if one looks, "they're not hard to find", yet you fail to give even one example. Why didn't you? If you're really concerned about scams perpetrated here, shouldn't you be specific in pointing them out?

So what exactly is your rationale for starting this thread, old chum, since you've brought that up? To sling mud in general? To bring specific complaints against specific outfitters? What? What?

I guess what I'm saying is that I see no rationale for this post other than a thinly veiled attempt to rake muck, and an invitation for others to do so.

If I'm mistaken, please enlighten me.

^
DocR



If you read the entire thread you should understand, that the point of the thread was not to bad mouth any particular outfitter (or even name them), but just to gain a general understanding of bad hunts that some members may have experienced in more recent times.

I have found knowledge is where you find it, and to find it, you have to look in different demographics and ask the right questions.

The safari business, like any business has its share of marginal operators, and I'm sure some of the posters here have had some bad experiences.

To me being forewarned is being forearmed. It is much easier to avoid a potentially bad situation, if you know what to look for in advance.

I have traveled to over 43 different countries and have seen a fair share of tourist scams. Many are unique to the country and/or culture. Knowing what the scams are in advance is a good way to avoid unpleasant surprises.

I understand you have made several safaris, but I assume most of them have been with the same outfitter.

So have you personally, ever had a safari that wasn't what you had expected or didn't live up to its billing?

BH63

Exactly my experience in 2 elephant hunts in Zimbabwe. When you close inside 50 yards with a herd, a bachelor bull band or finally, inside 30 yards of a mature bull and his askaris, you're hunting wild elephants that can kill you, the PH, and the trackers, even when there are multiple heavy rifles on hand.

Once the shooting starts at appropriately close range, someone will end it. Hopefully good planning, experienced PH team and a hunter who can perform as needed will mean a happy ending, mature trophy elephant and nice pictures on the 24HCF.

No different than the experience Ruark and Selby had when it comes to tracking a bull and closing the deal. Do we need to be reminded of Ian Gibson's outcome to realize that elephant hunting is the essence DG hunts?

Well, I have read the full thread, which is why I wrote my preceding post.

In fact, I was so puzzled by your post purporting to clarify your "rationale" that I re-read the entire thread twice through. Still not really clear to me that you've given a true rationale, but I gather that you'd like to hear some stories of hunts gone bad, ostensibly to avoid having the same thing happen to you (or to other who read this thread).

Am I reading you right?

If so, I would argue that this is the wrong way to go about it. As I wrote in my post on this thread on Jan. 13, in my experience the best way to assure yourself you're buying a good hunt is to find out which PH's/outfitters are getting good reviews in the area you want to hunt, then talk to some of their recent past clients to get candid reports, and if all checks out, talk to the PH/outfitter yourself. I've used this method on every guided hunt I've been on except one, and every single time I've had an enjoyable hunt with no bad surprised.

The only exception to my rule was a Wyoming elk hunt that a "friend" had booked, and I let him talk me into going with him. It turned out to be an unpleasant experience in many ways, none of which were the outfitter's fault. I came home sans elk and with a strong lesson in not trusting other people to set up my hunts for me.

In my experience it's a lot easier to seek out the good guys and work with them than to try to find the shady characters. Doing the opposite just makes no sense unless you're in the business of catching bad guys (i.e., you're in law enforcement).

Thats what makes the world spin.

I have zero desire to see or hunt africa. I have all the desire to move to AK and hunt/fish evetyhing there until I die

I read the African forum from time to time just to read. Still have no desire.

But unfortunately the guides seem just like in the US... some bad, many good, a few great... probably that way the world over.

Alaska is where my heart is also rost, but I would like to take a safari with my wife and children while we still can. I hope I'm wrong but they very well could be the ones telling the tales of hunting Africa when there was still hunting allowed. I never had the desire but as I get older (45) I think it'd be a hell of an experience. I'd have to set aside a week for fishing though....

I don't disagree with what you state, but I think there is more to it than just reading the "good" reviews.

I had an extremely fantastic elephant hunt with a certain PH. He no longer works as a PH, and, although I would write a really great review for the hunt I had with that outfitter, I'm not sure it would apply to the same outfitter today who is currently using different PHs.

That's why I like to collect anecdotes of "things to watch out for", if you will.

Nothing, nefarious intended.

Cheers,

BH63

PS: An example (although not pertaining to PHs) is knowing to watch out for the overly aggressive porters in Jo'burg International Airport and the officials wanting bribes at the Police Check counter. Once you are aware of the potential problems, you can take proactive steps to thwart them.

I used to get excited about Alaska (and I still hope to do a brown bear hunt there someday), but after watching the TV series "Alaska State Troopers", it has lost a lot of charm for me.

But like you said "That's what makes the world spin".

I hope all your Alaskan dreams come true.

BH63

No doubt you are referring to Safariman's AAHHHsome Safaris and their Campfire Buffalo Hunt?

That hunt does seem to ring a bell as one were I read a lot of negatives, but not the only one. (I have a tendency to remember the gist of something I read, or a discussion, without remembering the exact names, dates, etc. This is something I really should work on.)

I remember complaints about one or two PAC hunts as well as the individual hunt someone told to me in person.

I've read one or two bad reviews about buff hunts in Moz, and that was one of the main reasons I decided not to hunt there this year (the other being expensive gun import fees and travel charters). I'm sure that some people have killed fantastic buffalo in Moz, but once you get a negative impression about something it is hard to dislodge.

BH63