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Although not "long range" by the standards of many here, can anyone relate first hand experience with Barnes TTSX bullets on game at ranges beyond 400 yards?
I am specifically considering the 30 cal 150 grain TTSX as an all around bullet for my a 30 '06. Muzzle velocity is about 2860fps, accuracy is good, but, I do not want to question whether the bullet will expand adequately at ranges between 400-500 yards.
Thank you
If you can't be a good example, may you at least serve as a dreadful warning
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Campfire Oracle
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Check your downrange velocity charts to get an idea on velocity on impact. Barnes states their bullets will expand down to about 1600 fps...but be aware the expansion is far from complete down there.
I personally feel comfortable with them, and have had good results with them at an impact velocity of 2000 fps or more.
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I shot a large bull caribou at 519 yards with the 168 TTSX out of my 300 RUM. The bullet performed as expected and dropped the bull at the spot. It showed obvious expansion and full penetration. Impact velosity was around 2300fps. I think as long as you keep your impact speed above 1800fps you should be fine. ![[Linked Image]](http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a54/Thebear_78/IMG_0692_zpsf0398199.jpg)
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You will get "full" expansion to 2200, pretty good to 2000, good enough but not "full" to 1800.
It sounds like a great all-around combo to me.
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Campfire Kahuna
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no clue on the ballistics anymore but the old 225 X out of a 338 win mag worked just fine twice at 802 yards on a caribou for me. Both were standard caliber in, and thumbnail size exits. Caribou was very dead.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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I have always had great luck with the Barnes fodder all they way back to the original X Bullet.
IMHO they have only improved over time. Granted where I live long shots are 400 yards so I am sure all of my impact velocities have been plenty high enough for adequate expansion and an recovered bullets proved such.
Good luck and maybe other with true long range data can add comments.
*Master of random precision*
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Although not "long range" by the standards of many here, can anyone relate first hand experience with Barnes TTSX bullets on game at ranges beyond 400 yards?
I am specifically considering the 30 cal 150 grain TTSX as an all around bullet for my a 30 '06. Muzzle velocity is about 2860fps, accuracy is good, but, I do not want to question whether the bullet will expand adequately at ranges between 400-500 yards.
Thank you I'd also look into some loads with Big Game powder. I would bet you could improve on that 2860, even with a 22" barrel.
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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1600 FPs is their quote for the LRX and some of the other offerings.
I would look at the 168 TTSX as your all around for the /06. It is designed like the LRX. It opens down to 1500 FPS as per Ryan at Barnes. On the flip side, they only test the top end to 2600 FPS.
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Although not "long range" by the standards of many here, can anyone relate first hand experience with Barnes TTSX bullets on game at ranges beyond 400 yards?
I am specifically considering the 30 cal 150 grain TTSX as an all around bullet for my a 30 '06. Muzzle velocity is about 2860fps, accuracy is good, but, I do not want to question whether the bullet will expand adequately at ranges between 400-500 yards.
Thank you I'd also look into some loads with Big Game powder. I would bet you could improve on that 2860, even with a 22" barrel. Big Game is Unobtainium. P
Obey lawful commands. Video interactions. Hold bad cops accountable. Problem solved.
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Mine shot those awesome with H414. That will easily break 3000.
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Campfire Ranger
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Mine shot those awesome with H414. That will easily break 3000. I believe H414 IS W760.
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Everyday Hunter
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I don't think 1600 or 1800 is enough. Maybe the LRX opens better than the TTSX. I think you are fine at 500 yards from a 30-06 though
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Killed a coues at 525 with a 100 from my 257 wby, upwards of 3500 mv (I don't recall off the top of my head) with perfect performance.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I took an antelope at 777 yards using the TSX not TTSX in 2005 with perfect results. In fact the wound channel looked no different than the one that I shot at 280 yards. I was shooting a 300 win. The TTSX bullets open quicker and easier than the old TSX bullets, because the hollow is larger to accept the shank of the tip.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Looks like a marginally stabilize bullet that bent the tip instead of opening, more twist more betta'
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Ranger
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To be quite frank after shooting quite a bit of stuff with TSX and TTSX, give me a Nosler E-tip every time...
- Greg
Success is found at the intersection of planning, hard work, and stubbornness.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Tried e tips once.. could not get them to shoot worht a flip.
Never had anything walk away from a Barnes....
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Never had anything walk away from a Barnes....
Neither have I.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Ranger
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Although not "long range" by the standards of many here, can anyone relate first hand experience with Barnes TTSX bullets on game at ranges beyond 400 yards?
I am specifically considering the 30 cal 150 grain TTSX as an all around bullet for my a 30 '06. Muzzle velocity is about 2860fps, accuracy is good, but, I do not want to question whether the bullet will expand adequately at ranges between 400-500 yards.
Thank you You can match or better that velocity with the 168TTSX and it's a friggin' hammer; expansion is no problem with it at those velocities out to and beyond the ranges you're discussing.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Campfire Ranger
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Never had anything walk away from a Barnes....
Neither have I. Nor I.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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E-Tips have worked as well as TTSX for me. I'm shooting 120's out of my 26 Nos at 3,450 fps. Both are nearly half MOA at 400 yds., both have killed stuff with impressive results and considerable tissue damage. I'd use either one without preference, have not tried the GMX.
So, I guess it depends on what the gun likes.
DF
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Never had anything walk away from a Barnes....
Neither have I. Nor I. I haven't either. That said, e-tips have better BC's, expand just as well and penetrate about the same, and most importantly, IME, have much better wound channels. We live in a golden age of bullets for sure.
- Greg
Success is found at the intersection of planning, hard work, and stubbornness.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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For sure on bullet selection.
It's the best I've seen in over 50 years of reloading and shooting. Quality has never been better.
IMO,
DF
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Campfire Kahuna
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JB told me to try etips again... I may have very first bullets... may be a bit of an issue.
I don't want any wound channels larger than what barnes gives me though, so that may keep me from trying the etips again. Everytime I shoot a berger, I have more bloodshot than I want, but I usually use em for head shots mostly.
Regardless as mentioned, its hard to think that bullets could get any better. COmpared to the old days.
Of course last night at about 50 yards I plunked an old school 240 grain SMK through a 300 pound boars shield and likely his heart or top of... from 300/221, suppressed, and he only made 40 yards or so...evidently it worked. LOL
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Ranger
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You don't get Berger wound channels with Etips.
- Greg
Success is found at the intersection of planning, hard work, and stubbornness.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Nope, but still pretty impressive. Here's a hog hit with a 120 gr. E-Tip. Tore quite a hole. DRT, of course. DF ![[Linked Image]](http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f35/rush2830/IMG_0498%201.jpg)
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Nope, but still pretty impressive. Here's a hog hit with a 120 gr. E-Tip. Tore quite a hole. DRT, of course. DF I'm pretty sure your "excessive" wound channel is a result of the 3400 fps velocity. The OP will be shooting more like 2700-2800. BIG difference. With that being said, I think all copper bullets perform best when you run them above 3000, and the faster the better. I typically don't worry about a little meat loss. As for the original question, I've shot several does with 120 gr ttsx from a 7-08 with an estimated impact velocity of 2050-2100 fps and they seemed to perform fine. No recovered bullets to verify expansion, but the deer didn't make it more than 20 yds, so I'd say they were successful.
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Yours are going pretty speedy too, ehh? grin...
- Greg
Success is found at the intersection of planning, hard work, and stubbornness.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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 Speed kills, as they say. To answer your question, maybe. At 150 yds. it may have slowed down a bit, maybe 3,300 fps...  DF
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Never had anything walk away from a Barnes....
Neither have I. Nor I. I haven't either. That said, e-tips have better BC's, expand just as well and penetrate about the same, and most importantly, IME, have much better wound channels. We live in a golden age of bullets for sure. I've shot the Barnes side by side with AccuBonds and used the same BC and drop settings put to 1000 meters
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Kahuna
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Nope, but still pretty impressive. Here's a hog hit with a 120 gr. E-Tip. Tore quite a hole. DRT, of course. DF Yep, thats the stuff I"m trying to avoid, all the jelly.... Buddys dad shot a tom turkey the other day with a ttsx.... 270 and 95 ttsx.. just below the wing butt. I expected the speed to have an issue... nope, quarter size hole, wasted just a bit of the top of the breast. Very dead. Just enough, not to much killing. but the least amount of damage has been amazingly to many, from my 50 bmg... punches a hole in a deer, thats it.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Not a TTSX, but a 185 GMX. Shot an elk at 700. Impact velocity was probably 1850. Vitals were soup. Bull dropped. 3/4" exit. I'd expect a TTSX to be even better.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Not a TTSX, but a 185 GMX. Shot an elk at 700. Impact velocity was probably 1850. Vitals were soup. Bull dropped. 3/4" exit. I'd expect a TTSX to be even better. Maybe, maybe not. GMX is pretty good. DF
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Not a TTSX, but a 185 GMX. Shot an elk at 700. Impact velocity was probably 1850. Vitals were soup. Bull dropped. 3/4" exit. I'd expect a TTSX to be even better. DRT, vitals as soup, 3/4" exit... and you expect "better"? WTF is "better" than that?
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Perfect timing.
Couldn't give me another TSX or TTSX, I've had failures on game...yes...bona fide failures.
Can you suggest load data for ETIP? Have Nosler manual but looking for real life '06 data, 150 gr & 168 gr.
thanx
murky
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Couldn't give me another TSX or TTSX, I've had failures on game...yes...bona fide failures. Define failure please. Are you talking like failure to penetrate? Not opening up? Not killing after a good shot? what?
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Mine shot those awesome with H414. That will easily break 3000. I believe H414 IS W760. Yep, it is.
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Not a TTSX, but a 185 GMX. Shot an elk at 700. Impact velocity was probably 1850. Vitals were soup. Bull dropped. 3/4" exit. I'd expect a TTSX to be even better. DRT, vitals as soup, 3/4" exit... and you expect "better"? WTF is "better" than that? TTSX seem softer IME than GMX. I'd surmise that at lower impact velocities they'd be more better.
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Campfire Ranger
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Mine shot those awesome with H414. That will easily break 3000. I believe H414 IS W760. It is
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Never had anything walk away from a Barnes....
Neither have I. Plus 1 on that! donsm70
Life Member...Safari Club International
Life Member...Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation
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Had an elk run about fifty yards once after a solid hit from a Barnes 7mm 130 grainer.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Mine shot those awesome with H414. That will easily break 3000. I believe H414 IS W760. Yep, it is. And, they are both temperature sensitive. I'll never use them again.
"I never thought I'd live to see the day that a U.S. president would raise an army to invade his own country."
Robert E. Lee
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Although not "long range" by the standards of many here, can anyone relate first hand experience with Barnes TTSX bullets on game at ranges beyond 400 yards?
I am specifically considering the 30 cal 150 grain TTSX as an all around bullet for my a 30 '06. Muzzle velocity is about 2860fps, accuracy is good, but, I do not want to question whether the bullet will expand adequately at ranges between 400-500 yards.
Thank you 2860fps seems pretty slow - I get 2861fps from a 22" barreled .30-06 with H4350 and 165g MRX (predecessor to the TTSX) and Barnes lists loads in excess of 3000fps with a 24" barrel. Have not shot anything past 400 with the TTSX but did take a cow elk right at 400 with a 180g MRX from my .300WM. She did a 180 and took a couple steps, turnedup hill and took one or two more, then fell over. Have yet to recover any TTSX or MRX, from 100g to 180g and no animal has gone more than a few steps. More have dropped at the shot than not and are accurate in every rifkle I've tried them in so they are one of my three most used bullets. (The other two are Nosler AccuBond and North Fork SS.) I like to keep impact velocity above 2000fps regardless of bullet, even though I think all three that I use most will expand at lower velocities. At your 2860fps M.V. that translates to about 440 yards. At 3000fps M.V. 2000fps will be maintained to just past 500 yards.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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I shot a moose at 547 yards with a 150ttsx from my 300wsm. MV was around 3350 and it was quartering towards me. Hit the shoulder and exited behind the ribs on the other side. It was on its feet for a minute or so but only went about 30 yards and down. It worked well and shot 1/4 moa over Superformance powder.
With the all coppers I try to limit my range to where impact velocity is over 2000 fps. I think that one was going around 2350 at impact. Looked like it expanded but it didn't look like it was extreme by any means. It penetrated through at least 4 feet of moose though.
At longer ranges when impact speeds are lower I like the amax. Although I just picked up a box of 6.5 143g eld-x and a box of 308 212g eld-x and I'm excited to see if I can get the to shoot.
Bb
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Never had anything walk away from a Barnes....
Neither have I. Plus 1 on that! donsm70 Yep, since 2004
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I've used Barnes on a good number of animals with good results. Don't believe I have had any walk away either. As far as TTSX, I shot my 5 pt elk this year at 400 yards. Typical lung shot, he turned and ran. Since he was headed downhill i put the crosshairs above his tail and sent a second one. It hit just to the right of the spine, but put him down. 300 Wby, 180 TTSX. Also dropped a 10 year old Bison at 100 yards. Slid one just below and behind his ear. Dropped like a sack of potatoes. Nice leak hole.  ![[Linked Image]](http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o789/akbob5/2014%20Antelope%20Island%20Bison%20Hunt/PC010027a_zpsa8a3cf08.jpg) I shot one other 6pt elk with a TSX at 600 yards. Two fairly quick shots, he dropped at the second shot. I've shot a number of other animals with Barnes X and TTX bullets but no others over 300 yards.
Last edited by Akbob5; 02/13/16.
Bob
Enjoy life now -- it has an expiration date.
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Never had anything walk away from a Barnes....
Neither have I. Nor I. Nor have I. 180TTSX at 3000fps out of my 300wm has always been extremely effective. From muleys to bears, black and grizzly. One shot kills with devastating destruction on the insides.
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Liking the looks of that Accubond and Pro Hunter.
Gerry.
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I have never had an issue with Accubonds Partitions A frames and hornadies . I love the TSX's but pictures like that really concern me.
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I have never had an issue with Accubonds Partitions A frames and hornadies . I love the TSX's but pictures like that really concern me. What concerns me is that you can't see how silly this "comparison" is. What in the world is launching a 120grn TTSX @ 2750fps? That's what it would have to be at sea level to get that impact velocity, slower still w/ any altititude. Even my previous model 7 in 7mm-08 w/ a shorty barrel would push 120grn TTSX's out the barrel at 3000fps. It's no secret that the TTSX's are usually at the limits of reliable expansion at 2k fps. If you're going to stage a test at least make it fair so that the bullet can perform as designed. If it had been launched at 3100+fps such that it's impact velocity was higher then it would have performed much better than this comparison indicates. That's the very reason Barnes makes light for caliber bullets so that they can be driven fast and have reliable expansion. And no, I'm not a rabid Barnes fan boy, didn't even shoot one last year, but it's clear that this "comparison" isn't fair. David
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Thinking that the photo is just showing like impact velocity comparison.
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nice photo, but what it does not capture is the rotational damage caused by the Barnes petals. Lead core bullets, as shown, act in tissue like a boat prop fouled with weeds. The Barnes like a clean prop running in open water. Although the bullet may be smaller at the end, the hydraulic displacement is greater. Even from a 7mm08, that TTSX would not be going that slow until 400 yards. Launched from a 7 mag would push that to 500. Even at that range, it would kill, and perhaps more important, at 75 yards it would still punch through bones and not smear off or come apart. They are all good bullets but note how much premium ammo is loaded today with mono-metal bullets. Very few are shot in lead free zones. Live game is not wet newsprint which resembles a paunch full of browse. Put a fresh hide on the "in side", layer that newsprint with some fresh big beef bones and see how ugly it can get. Lead cores smear and come apart. Only Barnes, copies of them and Nosler Partitions will keep on tickin'. For soft skinned game, at 200 yards or less, once you get to 40 caliber, a heavy, hard cast lead bullet works as well as a fancy jacketed small one. 80 gr TTSX from a 25-06 30" bbl starting at 3997 fps ![[Linked Image]](http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z377/rocketcity1/file.jpg) 450/400 395 gr starting @2000 fps (100 yds) ![[Linked Image]](http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z377/rocketcity1/450-400group_zps8f905bcf.jpg) Both filled the freezer.
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Thinking that the photo is just showing like impact velocity comparison. Then the caption on the photo shouldn't be 300yd expansion testing. David
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Assume he throttled back the load to try and replicate fps at 300 yards.
We've done the same, years ago, with various X bullets (yes X) and found they expanded in media (as noted above) down to 1700 fps as long as bone was hit.
Some may disagree, but IMO the best use of Barnes is to shoot through both shoulders and break the animal down.
Very little meat is lost and tracking becomes a non event.
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Assume he throttled back the load to try and replicate fps at 300 yards.
We've done the same, years ago, with various X bullets (yes X) and found they expanded in media (as noted above) down to 1700 fps as long as bone was hit.
Some may disagree, but IMO the best use of Barnes is to shoot through both shoulders and break the animal down.
Very little meat is lost and tracking becomes a non event. +1 Yup
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I have never had an issue with Accubonds Partitions A frames and hornadies . I love the TSX's but pictures like that really concern me. What concerns me is that you can't see how silly this "comparison" is. What in the world is launching a 120grn TTSX @ 2750fps? David It does not matter what the initial velocity is. The point is that these 3 impacted at 2000 fps regardless if they were launched at 2700 fps or 3700 fps.
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I have never had an issue with Accubonds Partitions A frames and hornadies . I love the TSX's but pictures like that really concern me. What concerns me is that you can't see how silly this "comparison" is. What in the world is launching a 120grn TTSX @ 2750fps? David It does not matter what the initial velocity is. The point is that these 3 impacted at 2000 fps regardless if they were launched at 2700 fps or 3700 fps. Seriously? Are seriously saying that initial velocity has no bearing on the terminal velocity at 300yds? Davis
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Uh ..... no. What he is saying is that these three bullets performed as shown, at the noted velocity in wet newsprint.
You may launch them at the shown velocity or a lot faster. At some point they will reach the tested velocities and perform in wet newsprint as shown.
All that launching them faster does is extend the killing zone farther out.
Hope this helps.
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It's no news or surprise that a solid copper bullet expands less aggressively than fairly soft lead-core alternatives. The whole point behind using a mono, is that you can drive them faster, with higher impact velocities, without them coming apart. Which can't be said for the other 2 bullets shown, as I've seen first hand.
So while the pic is accurate, it fails to mention that the impact distance on that TTSX would be quite a bit further than heavier lead-core hunting bullets started slower, like the AB and PH, given equal impact velocities.
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The caption for the picture reads "300 yard Expansion Testing" - clearly that is NOT what is being shown, so a false impression of the TTSX is being given.
David
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30cal 168tsx shot from a 308 at 2740fps. at about 450 yards length wise in a fairly big whitetail buck and recover the bullet just under the hide and it looked like a text book expansion pic
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30cal 168tsx shot from a 308 at 2740fps. at about 450 yards length wise in a fairly big whitetail buck and recover the bullet just under the hide and it looked like a text book expansion pic The 30cal 168TTSX's are "softer", like the LRX's. According to Barnes they should expand properly down to 1600fps. David
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I have never had an issue with Accubonds Partitions A frames and hornadies . I love the TSX's but pictures like that really concern me. What concerns me is that you can't see how silly this "comparison" is. What in the world is launching a 120grn TTSX @ 2750fps? David It does not matter what the initial velocity is. The point is that these 3 impacted at 2000 fps regardless if they were launched at 2700 fps or 3700 fps. Seriously? Are seriously saying that initial velocity has no bearing on the terminal velocity at 300yds? Davis DUDE!!!!!! How obtuse are you??? Screw initial velocity. Deal with the fact that the aforementioned bullet struck at 2000 plus velocity and did crappy! We are examining what that bullet did at 2000 fps striking velocity. That is it. I do not care if it was launched at 4000 fps and connected at 2000 yards or 2700 and connected at 300 yards.
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I have never had an issue with Accubonds Partitions A frames and hornadies . I love the TSX's but pictures like that really concern me. What concerns me is that you can't see how silly this "comparison" is. What in the world is launching a 120grn TTSX @ 2750fps? David It does not matter what the initial velocity is. The point is that these 3 impacted at 2000 fps regardless if they were launched at 2700 fps or 3700 fps. Seriously? Are seriously saying that initial velocity has no bearing on the terminal velocity at 300yds? Davis DUDE!!!!!! How obtuse are you??? Screw initial velocity. Deal with the fact that the aforementioned bullet struck at 2000 plus velocity and did crappy! We are examining what that bullet did at 2000 fps striking velocity. That is it. I do not care if it was launched at 4000 fps and connected at 2000 yards or 2700 and connected at 300 yards. Dude You're the retard that posted the 300 yard expansion test. If that's not what it is, then post it w/ a correct caption. As I stated w/ my first post - it ain't news to anybody that TTSX's typically don't expand well at 2000fps and below. Pretending that's the expected expansion of a 120TTSX at 300yds is misleading at best. David
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Boy you are a myopic bastard ain't you?
The point (ONCE AGAIN) is this is what the bullet does at 2000 fps. Now go pump the neighbors cat. Evidently hat is all you're good for.
READ THINK AND THEN ANSWER but not on my posts.
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Boy you are a myopic bastard ain't you?
The point (ONCE AGAIN) is this is what the bullet does at 2000 fps. Now go pump the neighbors cat. Evidently hat is all you're good for.
READ THINK AND THEN ANSWER but not on my posts. Fotis I'll post wherever I please - you're not the nanny here. All bullets have a velocity performance window. You're deliberately posting misleading information to make a point. And getting your undies in a bunch when you're called on it. David
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Once again he communication process breaks down. This is what the TSX did striking at 2000 fps,
This is a fact,
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Once again he communication process breaks down. This is what the TSX did striking at 2000 fps,
This is a fact, Fotis How do you know that is fact? There are known errors in the text captioning that picture - how do you know the velocity for any of the projectiles is accurate? David
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I have handloaded TSX bullets and shot them at 1800 to 2000 fps in wet newsprint and they looked like that after recovery. Granted the did not have the rotational velocity but that has been proven not to make a diff,
Most all of them looked like this
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I have handloaded TSX bullets and shot them at 1800 to 2000 fps in wet newsprint and they looked like that after recovery. Granted the did not have the rotational velocity but that has been proven not to make a diff,
Most all of them looked like this So you have no idea. Got it. David
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Most of the professional ballisticians I’ve spoken with agree that a projectile’s rotational velocity has little effect on impact expansion. However, some point out that since rotational velocity maintains itself much longer than downrange velocity, it must, to some extent, affect expansion via centrifugal force.
Therefore, rather than simply loading down to simulate 400-yard impact velocities (which has the unavoidable side effect of reducing rotational velocity), we set gel blocks out at 400 yards and shot them.
http://www.rifleshootermag.com/ammo/ballistics-test-best-300-win-mag-loads-market/I can't help but notice how much better the Barnes TTSX bullets expansion looks in their 400yd test vs your 300yd test. David
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Looks to me like the barnes expanded just as wide as the others give or take a few .010 thousandths. Penetrated as far or farther than the other as well. So I dont see the issue. Maybe Im dense.
I've always been different with one foot over the line.....
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30cal 168tsx shot from a 308 at 2740fps. at about 450 yards length wise in a fairly big whitetail buck and recover the bullet just under the hide and it looked like a text book expansion pic The 30cal 168TTSX's are "softer", like the LRX's. According to Barnes they should expand properly down to 1600fps. David this was TSX not TTSX From what I've seen the TTSX do open open more/better. I figured it was cause of a lot larger hole (under tip) than the TSX softer? has there been a hardness test ?
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30cal 168tsx shot from a 308 at 2740fps. at about 450 yards length wise in a fairly big whitetail buck and recover the bullet just under the hide and it looked like a text book expansion pic The 30cal 168TTSX's are "softer", like the LRX's. According to Barnes they should expand properly down to 1600fps. David this was TSX not TTSX From what I've seen the TTSX do open open more/better. I figured it was cause of a lot larger hole (under tip) than the TSX softer? has there been a hardness test ? ld, Sorry, I misread your post. Don't know if the 30cal 168's are supposed to open easier than other TSX's. I'll shoot Barnes an e-mail and see what they say. Regards, David
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As per Barnes, the 168 TTSX opens own to 1500 fps. The 168 TSX opens down to 1800 FPS. I send them an email any time I'm looking at a new diameter.
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As per Barnes, the 168 TTSX opens own to 1500 fps. The 168 TSX opens down to 1800 FPS. I send them an email any time I'm looking at a new diameter. Good information. Thanks, David
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I have handloaded TSX bullets and shot them at 1800 to 2000 fps in wet newsprint and they looked like that after recovery. Granted the did not have the rotational velocity but that has been proven not to make a diff,
Most all of them looked like this So you have no idea. Got it. David Evidently you have no idea
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I have handloaded TSX bullets and shot them at 1800 to 2000 fps in wet newsprint and they looked like that after recovery. Granted the did not have the rotational velocity but that has been proven not to make a diff,
Most all of them looked like this So you have no idea. Got it. David Evidently you have no idea I know you're more interested in spreading BS than performing objective testing. David
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Bottom line...... Are you happy with that bullet's performance under those circumstances ?????
If you are then great......... I am not!
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Bottom line...... Are you happy with that bullet's performance under those circumstances ?????
If you are then great......... I am not! What circumstances are those Fotis? The land of make believe and bull $hit? Keep pretending.... David
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OK Guy. we have another idiot in our midst!
Are you happy with the aforementioned projectile's performance at a striking velocity at 2K fps.
Can you answer that? Only that!!!!!
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OK Guy. we have another idiot in our midst!
Are you happy with the aforementioned projectile's performance at a striking velocity at 2K fps.
Can you answer that? Only that!!!!! Fotis, Everybody sees the BS you're spreading. You don't know what the impact velocity was, you seem to be stupid enough to think that shooting a bullet at 2000fps will yeild the same performance as shooting a bullet and having it impact at 2000fps. You won't address any of the outright fabrications and bs in your post, just want people to comment on how it looks w/ your fabricated data. Is that why you refused to answer what the initial velocity is? Because that is it's initial velocity? Why won't you answer that question? Why do you keep ignoring questions about what rifle fires a 120TTSX slow enough for those kind of velocities at 300yds? Does Nosler pay you to come over here and spread this BS? Go suck ass on your own forum, nobody's buying it here. David
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Assume he throttled back the load to try and replicate fps at 300 yards.
Reduced velocity test to replicate LR performance is not valid without the RPM's of full velocity. RPM's help facilitate bullet expansion. If it were not true, some bullets would not come apart in mid air due to fast twist. Ask Berger why their target jackets are made tougher.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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All I have to add, without reading the thread, standard tsx 225 out of 338 win mag, opened just fine twice on a caribou at just over 800 yards. First was back of lungs ribs only, second broke the back.
Both were caliber entry, both were about dime size exits on the hide.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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If slow impact velocity is a concern just go with the LRX.
If some fault the performance of a TTSX, or TSX as someone was claiming that is, at low speeds, do you also fault the performance of the others at high impact speeds? High speeds on heavy bone and you may not have much left with the others. You will have a solid bullet with the Barnes. And even if velocity slows down, it still expanded and penetrated with the others. What's not to like?
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Actually it has been proven that residual velocity (starting from a higher one) and a reduced load do about the same damage. Specifically mentioned here on actual animals and wet newsprint. ![[Linked Image]](http://i.imgur.com/XG3gVHQh.jpg)
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Actually it has been proven that residual velocity (starting from a higher one) and a reduced load do about the same damage. Specifically mentioned here on actual animals and wet newsprint. I'm sure it's interesting..... I will string with Bill Steiger's work and that of others dating back decades when it comes to RPM's, velocity, and bullet expansion. They found a difference. I will defer to Steigers since he developed one of the best premium hunting bullets ever made. Tin foil bullets may be a completely different story from premium, heavy jacket hunting bullets. I don't care what happens with the squishy stuff.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Assume he throttled back the load to try and replicate fps at 300 yards.
Reduced velocity test to replicate LR performance is not valid without the RPM's of full velocity. RPM's help facilitate bullet expansion. If it were not true, some bullets would not come apart in mid air due to fast twist. Ask Berger why their target jackets are made tougher. Berger made theirs tougher because my 7 twist 223 kept poofing the 64s on the way to the target. LOL.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Fotis,
Thanks for posting this article. But I can't read it, even if I double click on it. Where is it found?
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
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Assume he throttled back the load to try and replicate fps at 300 yards.
Reduced velocity test to replicate LR performance is not valid without the RPM's of full velocity. RPM's help facilitate bullet expansion. If it were not true, some bullets would not come apart in mid air due to fast twist. Ask Berger why their target jackets are made tougher. Berger made theirs tougher because my 7 twist 223 kept poofing the 64s on the way to the target. LOL. You must have also been the guy who discovered the Hornady melting tip bullet thing too, huh?
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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This was in a much older handloader magazine.
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http://stevespages.com/jpg/bestbullet.jpgclick on it it enlarges and you can read it Read about the BUZZSAW effect
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And here you go! ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v514/378fan/Capture_zpsnq6f3oap.jpg) and another test ![[Linked Image]](http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/b446/pileofguts/bnvbn_zps95811c07.jpg)
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Thanks.
edited to add,
I read the article and pasted it on my desk top for further reading. The Barnes "X" looked the best to me. But I no longer use them. I switched to the LRX for even more violent expansion.
Last edited by Ringman; 04/21/16.
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And here you go! Excellent info. The chart is fascinating as well. Thanks.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Maybe we could get some high speed photographs showing performance on media replicating a real animal ?
Does anyone hunt wet phone books ? (kidding !)
Having cut up quite a few animals shot with cup and cores as well as monometals. The petal rotation effect is easy to see, especially when bone is encountered.
A dull router bit doesn't cut like a sharp one.
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The buzz-saw effect has little to do with centrifugal force causing enhanced bullet expansion. You ever spin on a tire swing as a kid? Remember how the faster you spin, the more the universe tried to throw you out of the swing? The same thing happens with bullets; the faster they spin, the more force there is trying to throw the ruptured nose of the bullet outward as expansion initiates.
RPM's definitely contribute to bullet expansion, and simulated low impact velocity tests do NOT replicate actual bullet impacts at long range, even though impact velocity may be similar.
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Actually it has been proven that residual velocity (starting from a higher one) and a reduced load do about the same damage. Specifically mentioned here on actual animals and wet newsprint. Fotis, The humor of you postings articles referencing "buzz saw effect" and using it as cover for being a lying sack of $hit with your "test data" is over the top. I'm gonna confine my research to ballisticians that don't think rpm contibuting to bullets terminal effects is related to a buzz saw and have some basic understanding onf the concept of centrifugal force. This [bleep] has been argued and tested repeatedly - you're wrong, end of story. If you're so comfortable with your stupidity why don't you go ahead and answer the questions asked to begin with? How fast were the bullets in your "test" launched initially? What measure were you using to state that this was equivalent to a "300yd Expansion Test"? Why do your tested bullets launched at low velocity for a simulated 300yd expansion test look so much different than TTSX's actually fired at normal velocities into test media at 400yds? http://www.rifleshootermag.com/ammo/ballistics-test-best-300-win-mag-loads-market/Why didn't your test bullets with substandard expansion achieve the superior penetration that Barnes bullets are known for? It's OK - everybody knows you faked your test data now, your silence on the same questions over and over is deafening. Nobody thinks your actually gonna answer. David
Last edited by Canazes9; 04/21/16. Reason: Link added
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I have answered every question you have asked and provided proof of your rpm based expansion. Very little difference in expansion. A wise man once said, ![[Linked Image]](https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-eZsAOggx_TM/VVgkK_ZPwqI/AAAAAAAAFoI/XPw5TLHkXT0/s1600/Einstein.png) That can also be said about discussing a case with a human whose IQ and shoe size #'s are identical. In this case that would be you of course. Either way happy trails to you!
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I have...provided proof of your rpm based expansion. Very little difference in expansion.
No, you provided anecdotal evidence from a source without much scientific credibility, from years ago, that has shown to be completely off base about the cause of the increased expansion attributable to higher rotational velocity. Just because the author was clueless about the cause, doesn't mean the observation wasn't real...
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I have answered every question you have asked and provided proof of your rpm based expansion. Very little difference in expansion. A wise man once said, That can also be said about discussing a case with a human whose IQ and shoe size #'s are identical. In this case that would be you of course. Either way happy trails to you! Fotis, Pretty funny a retard like you talking about other folks IQ's. You're a lying piece of $hit. What was the launch velocity in your test? What chambering fires 120TTSX so slow that it arrives at target at sub 2100fps @ 300yds? No! No, no one thinks you will answer - again...... David
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I have...provided proof of your rpm based expansion. Very little difference in expansion.
No, you provided anecdotal evidence from a source without much scientific credibility, from years ago, that has shown to be completely off base about the cause of the increased expansion attributable to higher rotational velocity. Just because the author was clueless about the cause, doesn't mean the observation wasn't real... Thank you Dr. Ruth!
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I am confused-I have a 257 bee that shoots one ragged hole with the Barnes TTSX.
Sounds like I shouldn't hunt with it and sounds like I won't be able to sell it shooting Barnes TTSX's.what should I do?😖
Last edited by MAKAIRA; 04/22/16.
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No this is not what this is about. Everyone knows that at some point or another every bullet will act in a substandard manner. That said Barnes have a tendency to repeat this more often, specifically when it comes to expansion. I posted the picture and the issue, with the morbidly obtuse, became initial velocity and what cartridge launched this bullet that it landed at 300 yards with 2k fps. Who gives a flying squirrel? Maybe a 7mm TCU or whatever. Point being is that at 2k the bullet did this compared to the other 2. Or let's just say theoretically they did this at 400 instead of 300, would this make them more suitable? If one is happy with it great. Shoot it hunt it sleep with it. For me it won't do. If the manufacturer says 1800 fps then it should that. Barnes fall short of this more often than the others. This in all I was trying to relay. Here is another test Remember according to Barne's commercial video they open up upon contact or at least first inch or so Now if someone, anyone is happy with these bullets' performance striking at 2200 and 2000 fps them by all means use them. That is all I was saying
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You're speaking out your rear end....again. I've watched well over 100 big critters die via Barnes, with no confirmed, nor even suspected, bullet failures. Most of those animals hit the turf RIGHT now. How about you?
How many Barnes bullets have you PERSONALLY had not expand properly? How about on game animals?
I've seen more Nosler bullets perform poorly, than Barnes.
That's all I'm saying.
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One thing to keep in mind is that most Barnes bullets have different lower limits. For example, the .243 min velocity is 2000 FPS. The .358 range from 1800 - 2000. You can't just assume 1800 is the lower limit. The 168 TTSX goes down to 1500 FPS.
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No this is not what this is about. Everyone knows that at some point or another every bullet will act in a substandard manner. That said Barnes have a tendency to repeat this more often, specifically when it comes to expansion. I posted the picture and the issue, with the morbidly obtuse, became initial velocity and what cartridge launched this bullet that it landed at 300 yards with 2k fps. Who gives a flying squirrel? Maybe a 7mm TCU or whatever. Point being is that at 2k the bullet did this compared to the other 2. Or let's just say theoretically they did this at 400 instead of 300, would this make them more suitable? If one is happy with it great. Shoot it hunt it sleep with it. For me it won't do. If the manufacturer says 1800 fps then it should that. Barnes fall short of this more often than the others. This in all I was trying to relay. Here is another test Remember according to Barne's commercial video they open up upon contact or at least first inch or so Now if someone, anyone is happy with these bullets' performance striking at 2200 and 2000 fps them by all means use them. That is all I was saying Fotis You lying sack-o-$hit! Another picture w/ no details and a giant mountain of bull$hit. Can't answer any questions on how the test was performed or any specifics. What do you get out of Nosler for being a good little stooge? Do you get free bullets or what? Oh yeah, that's another question you won't answer.... David
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I have used the TTSXs in 7mm, 270, 30 cal, and the 375 with uniform success at ranges from about thirty yards to right at five hundred. I have recovered only two.
The five hundred yard shot was with a 150-gr TTSX from a 284 Win started at 2900 fps. The deer was hit through the heart on a broadside shot without impacting any ribs. The exit would barely accept my little finger tip.
Though that is an example of one out of maybe twenty, I'll let you draw your own conclusions but I've gone to the 140 in the 284 at about 3100 fps.
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Oryx, lasered 693 yards, 280AI, 140 ttsx, muzzle velocity, @3150. Right shoulder hit, exit behind left shoulder. DRT. Massive internal damage to heart, and front of lungs. ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v631/splattermatic/20121201_111831_zps9a951994.jpg)
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I have used the TTSXs in 7mm, 270, 30 cal, and the 375 with uniform success at ranges from about thirty yards to right at five hundred. I have recovered only two.
The five hundred yard shot was with a 150-gr TTSX from a 284 Win started at 2900 fps. The deer was hit through the heart on a broadside shot without impacting any ribs. The exit would barely accept my little finger tip.
Though that is an example of one out of maybe twenty, I'll let you draw your own conclusions but I've gone to the 140 in the 284 at about 3100 fps.
I've learned that exit wounds mean very little when it comes to drawing conclusions about bullet expansion and internal tissue destruction. Often mono's will lose some of their petals, and all that exits is the solid bullet shank, which is why you sometimes see a small exit wound, even at high impact velocities. How was the wound cavity?
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The only things I have gotten out of Nosler were an autographed manual and an orange hat. There you go! Those were my perks. Tarheel you are correct about different calibers . Here is an antelope I took at 363 yards with the 416 Bee and the 300 TSX at 3150 fps muzzle velocity. No doubt that one expanded!!! ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v514/378fan/SV100444.jpg) Here is my buddy Ray and my boy with the 416 Bee ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v514/378fan/SV100453.jpg) As for the other questions most of the ones I have used worked very well. In a couple of instances they did not work well judging from the post mortum exams. Long tracking job and wounds were very small and not enough trauma as the others.
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So Mr Smith...
Am I correct to assume that because you have seen over 100 Barnes DRT kills (and I am not saying that you have not) someone else has not experienced substandard performance from them?
I on the other hand have never seen a Nosler hornady Scirocco and grand slam failure.
Either way like I said failures are not written in stone, and they do not happen often but when talking specifically about expansion I have seen only barnes, A few but only Barnes.
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So Mr Smith...
Am I correct to assume that because you have seen over 100 Barnes DRT kills (and I am not saying that you have not) someone else has not experienced substandard performance from them?
I on the other hand have never seen a Nosler hornady Scirocco and grand slam failure.
Either way like I said failures are not written in stone, and they do not happen often but when talking specifically about expansion I have seen only barnes, A few but only Barnes. No. What I'm saying is that when I have watched what is actually about 130 big-game animals hit the ground via Barnes bullets, from the X to the TTSX, in various calibers, bullet weights, and impact velocities, with zero expansion problems, I don't buy it when somebody says that they have a higher rate of failure than other brands of bullets. Which is why I question the number of samples you've witnessed. As sample sizes grow, reliable and accurate conclusions/generalizations are more likely. So how many animals have you witnessed being taken with a Barnes bullet, and what proportion of those involved expansion failure? I find that some guys assume a mono failed to expand based solely on the exit wound, when this is a poor indicator of bullet performance. Often mono's lose some of all of their petals, leaving a solid shank to carry on and exit. I have seen this several times, where the exit hole is not much bigger than caliber, but the internal destruction is massive. As I said, I've witnessed more Nosler failures than Barnes, so does that give me a license to go around declaring that Nosler's fail more often than Barnes' do? Obviously not. The sample size of my experience and exposure isn't nearly big enough to be able to draw any accurate conclusion like that about the entire population of Nosler and Barnes bullets. That's the problem I have with what you said above, generalizing about Barnes bullets and their failure rate.
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Well being in the business and having access to studies you do not, please allow me to have the luxury of seeing more than the average Hunter.
You may not think so but hey you are not me.
I do not make unsubstantiated posts. I have seen what I have seen.....as have you I am sure!
Anyway happy hunting sir and enjoy....
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Kchuntis,
Fhuqking STUPIDITY isn't a "business"...it's a Plight and them differences are beyond stark,despite your being 100% Clueless. Hint.
What you "see" is Imagination and Pretend and there is no slighting how "real" it is to you. You repeatedly talk out your ass and lie like a fhuqking rug,mainly because it is the "best" you can do. Then you back it up with "results",that are hilariously dismal.
The only thing you shoot is your mouth and Imagination,then you go wayyyyyyy outta your road to obliviously prove same. Congratulations?!?
You are simply a Window Licking Clueless Fhuqk and your "experience" is a Delusional series of things you almost did,with wares you almost used,in places you almost went and that ALMOST counts. Laffin'!
Whattya figure your Imagination and Pretend can muster next...besides the same old plagiarized Fantasies,that reliably collide with Reality? GREAT time to go FULL Fhuqking Retard and cite how you "can't read this",due the "strength" and "conviction" of your Imaginary Pretend Ignore. I'm fhuqking cryin'....I'm laffin' sooooooo fhuqking hard!!!
Hint.
Just sayin'.
Laffin'!
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A post full of factual data and supportive arguments as is typical of all your posts. Another thread bites the dust.
Oh well. Argue with the gnome fellas. I am done.
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Well being in the business and having access to studies you do not, please allow me to have the luxury of seeing more than the average Hunter.
You may not think so but hey you are not me.
I do not make unsubstantiated posts. I have seen what I have seen.....as have you I am sure!
Anyway happy hunting sir and enjoy.... I've guided and observed a lot more than the average hunter, and I'll take empirical observations and first-hand witnessing over theory and reports viewed at a desk, but whatever floats your boat.
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The only things I have gotten out of Nosler were an autographed manual and an orange hat. There you go! Those were my perks. Tarheel you are correct about different calibers . Here is an antelope I took at 363 yards with the 416 Bee and the 300 TSX at 3150 fps muzzle velocity. No doubt that one expanded!!! Is that why you used a 416 on antelope? to cut down on tracking ? Here is my buddy Ray and my boy with the 416 Bee As for the other questions most of the ones I have used worked very well. In a couple of instances they did not work well judging from the post mortum exams. Long tracking job and wounds were very small and not enough trauma as the others.
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A post full of factual data and supportive arguments as is typical of all your posts. Another thread bites the dust.
Oh well. Argue with the gnome fellas. I am done. As compared to your posts w/ faked test data? David
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Ένας ψεύτης και λίγο σκύλα David
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A bitch Dave????? maybe. But not a liar. I like your input though! Proves you studied. Greek is a must know language for intellectuals sir! I am happy!
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Fotis, the good news is, you can flesh out your ignore list.
Being "bee-less" is no way to be so I have a 257 in the works on a 66' 700 action.
Wonder how fast I can push that 80 gr TTSX ? Got it touching 4000 in a 30" 25-06. Killed like Thor's hammer with 100% penetration (breaking a goat's hip and shoulder).
Barneses work and nothing but a mono metal can be pushed as hard, shoot well and stay together. But, I also like 160 gr Hornady RNSP bullets in my 6.5x55.
Keep the faith !
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Dave is learning Greek......
He is cussing me out in Greek.
Is there another Faith?????
I am elated
BTW I think in a couple of weeks I should get my 6.5 Bee from the custom shop.
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porsche1600s,
I heard about and purchased some bullets from a new company called Hammer. These are 6.5mm solid copper hollow points with a slightly higher BC than the Barnes. I plan on trying them as soon as my Weatherby is back in my hands.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Should be interesting.
My 6.5 was made in 1899 and is set up for 160 gr round nose bullets. It will shoot them sub moa but any spitzers are 1.5 moa or more.
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I know I'm late to the party, and I've had some very good experiences with them. I've also seen beyond the 'glow' they seem to have for many. ![[Linked Image]](http://www.hunt101.com/data/556/medium/120TSX.jpg) 120 TSX - 200 yard caribou, 7mm-08 ![[Linked Image]](http://www.hunt101.com/data/556/medium/IMG_06885.JPG) 235 TSX (#2)- 150 yard moose, 375-350 Rem Mag ![[Linked Image]](http://www.hunt101.com/data/556/medium/6772100gr7mm.JPG) 100 XFB - 200 yards caribou x2, 7mm-08 ![[Linked Image]](http://www.hunt101.com/data/556/medium/6772225gr338.JPG) 225 XFB - 125 yards caribou, 340 Weatherby ![[Linked Image]](http://www.hunt101.com/data/556/6772DSCF85XBT6mm.JPG) 85 XBT - 300-400 yards caribou, 6mm ![[Linked Image]](http://www.hunt101.com/data/561/medium/6772225X_r.JPG) 225 XFB - 495 meters moose, 340 Weatherby Most have zipped through, most have been effective quite quickly. But copper is always going to be hard. Sometimes it just doesn't open as well and penetrate as well as we hope.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Fotis,
I watched 4, factory 6mm scirocco's (2's?) from a 243 at 325 yards zip through an antelope with what seemed like zero expansion. It just stood there and slowly laid down over a few minute period. Thankfully it didn't take a step. Damage was minimal inside. Stuff does happen with all bullets.
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Klik,
We've seen most of those pics before, and there is no doubt that bullets do weird things on occasion, but in their current TTSX/LRX configuration, I think Barnes has most of the expansion quirks figured out.
Despite my positive experiences using Barnes bullets, they certainly aren't my first choice for long-range applications where impact velocity drops off. This is mostly because the structural virtues of monos are no longer needed once IV's drop down to 2000fps, and slippery but regular C&C bullets do fine when they impact at those speeds.
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Vabo
Scirocco 1 or 2. I have also heard similar issues but only with the 1's.
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Yep, all posted somewhere around here previously. Some folks just seem to think that copper won't stop and/or doubt that it is harder and tougher than lead typically is. A lot of the copper I've used has worked very well. And it took me awhile to believe that they weren't actually working as they were intended by design. But several incidents left me realizing that sometimes it's better to be good than lucky, and there are bullets which generally suited by purposes better.
That said, I don't have any recovered 140 XFBs and I used one variation of them in my 7mm-08 on quite a few animals with many quick flops and no bullet recoveries, even at some good distances for the speed of the cartridge.
I've shot more of the TTSXs in tests than I have on game, but both seem to suggest that this variation on the X design kind of completes the circle (by getting back to some petal losses like the early versions were criticized for). But I like reliable expansion of my bullets in those early inches of penetration and they seem to be doing that more consistently.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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I shot a wolf at 710yds with a 168ttsx out of my 300saum. Did it's job.
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so what am I missing in the picture posted? So how is that a bullet the has expanded to 1.7 times caliber and retained 99% of weight is a failure, when the other two bullets in the comparison expanded almost the exact same amount and didn't retain near the weight? Maybe I am a dumbphuck or something, but that does not even begin to make any sense to me.
As to the barnes, they are good bullets and I use them, but I also use the accubonds, interbonds, GMX, Sierra BTHP gamekings, and lots of other cup n core bullets and as long as I do my job and put the bullet in the right place, I have yet to have a dead animal bitch at me that I didn't shoot it with bullet xyz........
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I know I'm late to the party, and I've had some very good experiences with them. I've also seen beyond the 'glow' they seem to have for many. 120 TSX - 200 yard caribou, 7mm-08 235 TSX (#2)- 150 yard moose, 375-350 Rem Mag 100 XFB - 200 yards caribou x2, 7mm-08 225 XFB - 125 yards caribou, 340 Weatherby 85 XBT - 300-400 yards caribou, 6mm 225 XFB - 495 meters moose, 340 Weatherby Most have zipped through, most have been effective quite quickly. But copper is always going to be hard. Sometimes it just doesn't open as well and penetrate as well as we hope. Which one is the TTSX? Different bullet so hard to make a meaningful comparison.
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Also wondering what's wrong with the 300 yard picture. Weight retention is good. Penetration is good. Expansion is good. So what is so bad? The idea of Clean prop of blender blade zipping though the vitals is awesome! Maybe because it didn't melt down half way like the other two it looks like bad expansion? To each his own. Deer heart. 270win 130ttsx ![[Linked Image]](http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss46/Andrepdx/FE053BEB-26BC-4047-9648-00D23AA4B141_zpsqzs8vybt.jpg)
Last edited by Dre; 05/28/16.
All of them do something better than the 30-06, but none of them do everything as well.
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Since there seems to be a paucity of actual experience with Barnes Bullets - especially the 150gr .308 fired out of a 30-06 - actually used on game beyond 400 yards, why don't we try a little simpler method to answer his question?
I think most can agree that at impact velocities above 1800fps, the OP will likely be getting SOME expansion from the TTSX, but that a standard cup-and-core would likely do better in that relatively low-velocity situation.
The question then becomes, at what range does his 30-06's bullet drop below 1800fps?
Using the Hornady online ballistics calculator, I started off a 150gr .308 TTSX (B.C. = .420) at 2860fps. These are the results:
400 yards: 2046 fps
450 yards: 1955 fps
500 yards: 1867 fps
550 yards: 1781 fps
So if we use the cutoff point of 1800 fps, we see the OP can expect a minimum amount of expansion at his stated goal of 400-500 yards. However, he should be aware that with a 200 yard zero, the bullet will drop nearly FOUR FEET (45.2 inches) at 500 yards, which makes contacting the animal with a bullet a task I wouldn't want to undertake.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing -- Edmund Burke
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As an addendum, since expansion at low velocities isn't exactly the Barnes' strong point, perhaps he should be thinking of a high-quality cup-and-core bullet (which, incidentally, function very well at 2800 fps and below) as his "do everything" choice - like the Accubond or the Partition?
I know it wasn't the question, but that's what I chose for my 30-06, since it seems to have a decided preference for 150gr bullets.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing -- Edmund Burke
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What velocity do the 168 open up to?
All of them do something better than the 30-06, but none of them do everything as well.
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This may have been discussed already, but...
Are the LRX and TTSX basically the same, one just having a better BC; or, is the LRX designed for expansion at longer distances, lower velocities than the TTSX?
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The LRX is designed to open at 1600 fps...
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Shooting into water jugs at 1800 FPS produced at or very near full expansion for me. I keep all my Barnes up in the 2000-2100 FPS range as a safety margin though.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474 |
I know I'm late to the party, and I've had some very good experiences with them. I've also seen beyond the 'glow' they seem to have for many. 120 TSX - 200 yard caribou, 7mm-08 235 TSX (#2)- 150 yard moose, 375-350 Rem Mag 100 XFB - 200 yards caribou x2, 7mm-08 225 XFB - 125 yards caribou, 340 Weatherby 85 XBT - 300-400 yards caribou, 6mm 225 XFB - 495 meters moose, 340 Weatherby Most have zipped through, most have been effective quite quickly. But copper is always going to be hard. Sometimes it just doesn't open as well and penetrate as well as we hope. I"ve seen those before, and I'm continually amazed, 225X flat base from 338 win mag used in AK at distances to 801 yards, and up to 10 foot plus bears... and all between, down to sitkas and never ever seen a failure to expand. Including shooting through alder trees 3-6 inches in diameter on accident....(not all my shooting, I'm only good for 3 shots out of that gun up there...)
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,094
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2004
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I have used the TTSXs in 7mm, 270, 30 cal, and the 375 with uniform success at ranges from about thirty yards to right at five hundred. I have recovered only two.
The five hundred yard shot was with a 150-gr TTSX from a 284 Win started at 2900 fps. The deer was hit through the heart on a broadside shot without impacting any ribs. The exit would barely accept my little finger tip.
Though that is an example of one out of maybe twenty, I'll let you draw your own conclusions but I've gone to the 140 in the 284 at about 3100 fps.
I've learned that exit wounds mean very little when it comes to drawing conclusions about bullet expansion and internal tissue destruction. Often mono's will lose some of their petals, and all that exits is the solid bullet shank, which is why you sometimes see a small exit wound, even at high impact velocities. How was the wound cavity? Sorry Jordan that I didn't see his earlier. I usually am very interested in bullet performamce and almost always try to inspect the bullet path and resultant tissue damage but on that morning it was -25 degrees with a 20 mph breeze and I was underdressed. I'd did not dawdle but the big vessels above the heart were detached and there was a fifth-cent sized hole through the lungs which was probably not bad considering the velocity at that range. A very quick perusal revealed no bullet petals.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 151,008
Campfire Savant
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Campfire Savant
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 151,008 |
Shoot him in the shoulders. It doesn't matter if it opens or not. All the bone shrapnel is going to kill him before he hits the ground. You don't have to look for him, he can't run and fall in a giant cactus patch. He can't run down into the bottom of a canyon. I have never lost an animal I have hit in the shoulders. A 7 rem mag will go through a deer shoulders at 600 yds. Did the bullet open? Dont know. Couldnt find it. You always bone out the front shoulders to make hamburger anyway. Your just getting a little head start. I have been on a few south Texas guided hunts. The guides tell the clients to shoulder shoot. Just my opinion. He can't jump the fence either. Guys on my lease have had that happen 3 times. Same guy twice. You lose too much meat he said. Looks to me like he lost it all.
Last edited by hanco; 08/09/16.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
I know I'm late to the party, and I've had some very good experiences with them. I've also seen beyond the 'glow' they seem to have for many. 120 TSX - 200 yard caribou, 7mm-08 235 TSX (#2)- 150 yard moose, 375-350 Rem Mag 100 XFB - 200 yards caribou x2, 7mm-08 225 XFB - 125 yards caribou, 340 Weatherby 85 XBT - 300-400 yards caribou, 6mm Most have zipped through, most have been effective quite quickly. But copper is always going to be hard. Sometimes it just doesn't open as well and penetrate as well as we hope. Which one is the TTSX? Different bullet so hard to make a meaningful comparison. Basically the same construction other than the tip; material is still the same: relatively hard copper. ![[Linked Image]](http://www.hunt101.com/data/556/medium/IMG_14473.JPG) The TTSX is the one which most resembles a recovered Partition. 
Last edited by Klikitarik; 08/09/16.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,556
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Shoot him in the shoulders. It doesn't matter if it opens or not. All the bone shrapnel is going to kill him before he hits the ground. You don't have to look for him, he can't run and fall in a giant cactus patch. He can't run down into the bottom of a canyon. I have never lost an animal I have hit in the shoulders. A 7 rem mag will go through a deer shoulders at 600 yds. Did the bullet open? Dont know. Couldnt find it. You always bone out the front shoulders to make hamburger anyway. Your just getting a little head start. I have been on a few south Texas guided hunts. The guides tell the clients to shoulder shoot. Just my opinion. He can't jump the fence either. Guys on my lease have had that happen 3 times. Same guy twice. You lose too much meat he said. Looks to me like he lost it all. Exactly!
You did not "seen" anything, you "saw" it.
A "creek" has water in it, a "crick" is what you get in your neck.
Liberals with guns are nothing but hypocrites.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 911
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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So Mr Smith...
Am I correct to assume that because you have seen over 100 Barnes DRT kills (and I am not saying that you have not) someone else has not experienced substandard performance from them?
I on the other hand have never seen a Nosler hornady Scirocco and grand slam failure.
Either way like I said failures are not written in stone, and they do not happen often but when talking specifically about expansion I have seen only barnes, A few but only Barnes. I have to admit have had more than a few Nosler tipped bullets fail right inside the box......tips fallin' off...
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474 |
I've never seen a barnes not expand enough. Others have.
It doesnt take much and even on full expansion they don't leave big exit holes which is perfect for me, much less meat damage and still very dead.
I've seen teh old X, which folks hated, expand out just past 800...from a 338 win mag started at about 2700 or so IIRC.
IMHO there are better choices at longer ranges, but the barnes has never let me down either, somethign I can't say about other brands.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 17,252
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 17,252 |
I have and so have my some of my friends. Maybe not to this extend but I have seen it. I know I'm late to the party, and I've had some very good experiences with them. I've also seen beyond the 'glow' they seem to have for many. 120 TSX - 200 yard caribou, 7mm-08 235 TSX (#2)- 150 yard moose, 375-350 Rem Mag 100 XFB - 200 yards caribou x2, 7mm-08 225 XFB - 125 yards caribou, 340 Weatherby 85 XBT - 300-400 yards caribou, 6mm 225 XFB - 495 meters moose, 340 Weatherby Most have zipped through, most have been effective quite quickly. But copper is always going to be hard. Sometimes it just doesn't open as well and penetrate as well as we hope.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
Any bullet works under certain conditions, and even the original Nosler Ballistic Tips worked well at 50 yards from high-speed rifles in big animals.....sometimes. In the same way, hard copper hollow points work well adequately at slow impacts.... sometimes. And, while it's 'working well' that we obviously want, it's the other kind of performance that is concerning and the disqualifier. I have recovered identical bullets from the same rifle at the same distance in the same animal and had two very different bullet results in essentially the same conditions. The Partition was one of the early methods which successfully resolved the problem of consistency. Hard, monolithic bullets have shared the same problems of inconsistency, if not the same failures when they do. The last photo I posted was the first part of a 'close/far' test I set up a few years ago. Unfortunately the 'far' part of the test was only partially successful, so I did not get the spectrum of comparative results I wanted. And I never got back to completing it.
The TTSX has worked the few times I've used it, but a few times doesn't really tell much. It does seem like a step in the right direction however and I expect the untipped versions will largely be phased out eventually in their favor.I would not be surprised if the TTSX is to the TSX as the Partition was to ordinary cup and cores.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,423
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Posts: 8,423 |
LR, TSX and Ttsx really I will say it slow their ain't no such thing. Their are no long range etips , GMX ttsx or TSX. A cup and core is the only LR bullet even close to useful at LR. Write this down and read it when the buck of a lifetime limps off because you can't think logically.
Last edited by fredIII; 08/12/16.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Ps LR starts past 800
Last edited by fredIII; 08/12/16.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Posts: 20,193 |
Pure gold those last two posts are...
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Posts: 28,833
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,833 |
So then, should a guy who is not a dedicated long range hunter and has the ability, but would take a long range shot, have two loads for his hot rod magnum?
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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So then, should a guy who is not a dedicated long range hunter and has the ability, but would take a long range shot, have two loads for his hot rod magnum? Get off the fence shooting LR takes dedication. If you want to eat to the hole use a mono. If you want to shoot LR shoot LR.
Last edited by fredIII; 08/13/16.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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So then, should a guy who is not a dedicated long range hunter and has the ability, but would take a long range shot, have two loads for his hot rod magnum? Yes, that's exactly what I do. I carry a mag full of TTSX bullets for close encounters, where time is of the essence and shot angles may not be ideal, and a few LR loads using an AM or Berger that I can slip in the chamber in a more relaxed, LR spot-and-stalk scenario. It's worked flawlessly for many years for me.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474 |
I do what Jordan does these days and its worked like a charm...
Its easy. And you are going to be spinning anyway, no biggie.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,193
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,193 |
I'm not exactly a long range kind of guy, as 500 yards is long range for me, but I do this too.
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Joined: Nov 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Thanks, boys. It looks like I will try that.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Joined: Sep 2010
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Thanks, boys. It looks like I will try that. The absolute last thing you need is another load to develop...... If you finally get one figured out, stick with it.
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Joined: Nov 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Thanks, boys. It looks like I will try that. The absolute last thing you need is another load to develop...... If you finally get one figured out, stick with it. You have no idea what I need.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 860
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Campfire Regular
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Thanks, boys. It looks like I will try that. The absolute last thing you need is another load to develop...... If you finally get one figured out, stick with it. You have no idea what I need. Then that makes two of us. Your knowledge of reloading of long range shooting and reloading isn't expanding, despite your obvious interest in the subjects. Why don't you do some actual reading and learn about it, so you don't look like a fool constantly? If you really think the answer to your dilemma is to work up two different loads with different drop charts to remember, when it's clear you can't even decide which powder or bullets to try next, then I guess you should go for it. Over and over, you make things more complicated than they should be, because you refuse to do any actual research on your own.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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ryanjay11, Why don't you do some actual reading and learn about it, so you don't look like a fool constantly? When I was young I did lots of reading about cars. But when it came time to actually work on them it took on the job time to get things right. because you refuse to do any actual research on your own. You need to proof read your post. You contradicted yourself.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Joined: Sep 2010
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ryanjay11, Why don't you do some actual reading and learn about it, so you don't look like a fool constantly? When I was young I did lots of reading about cars. But when it came time to actually work on them it took on the job time to get things right. because you refuse to do any actual research on your own. You need to proof read your post. You contradicted yourself. No contradiction. It may seem that way to you, because your idea of research is asking random folks on the internet questions. When it comes time to actually read up on a subject so you might understand it, you would rather get on a forum and ask for the cliff notes version.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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No need to work up the TTSX load with the utmost LR scrutiny. Don't care about ES/SD, since it's a sub-400 load. Simply pick a powder charge, seat the TTSX at 0.050" off the lands, and go. Zero scope for the LR bullet, and as as long as the TTSX hits close to POA at 100, it'll do the trick out to at least 300-400.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,833
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,833 |
No need to work up the TTSX load with the utmost LR scrutiny. Don't care about ES/SD, since it's a sub-400 load. Simply pick a powder charge, seat the TTSX at 0.050" off the lands, and go. Zero scope for the LR bullet, and as as long as the TTSX hits close to POA at 100, it'll do the trick out to at least 300-400. Sounds like good advise.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Joined: Apr 2010
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Nope, but still pretty impressive. Here's a hog hit with a 120 gr. E-Tip. Tore quite a hole. DRT, of course. DF That's for damn certain! Knocked the hide right off 'em!!
Even birds know not to land downwind!
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Joined: Apr 2010
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Find ONE LOAD...that'll work at all ranges and stick with it!
Even birds know not to land downwind!
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Joined: Nov 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Posts: 28,833 |
Find ONE LOAD...that'll work at all ranges and stick with it! So, we have two schools of thought.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Joined: Jul 2011
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
Although not "long range" by the standards of many here, can anyone relate first hand experience with Barnes TTSX bullets on game at ranges beyond 400 yards?
I am specifically considering the 30 cal 150 grain TTSX as an all around bullet for my a 30 '06. Muzzle velocity is about 2860fps, accuracy is good, but, I do not want to question whether the bullet will expand adequately at ranges between 400-500 yards.
Thank you They'll be fine, but frankly you need to step on the gas a lot more. I'm firing 168 TTSXs at a it faster than that from the '06. Oh, and disregard ANYTHING said by Ringman. Ever. Ditto Savage_99. Ever.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312 |
With that short bearing surface I'd be ticked if I couldn't tease 3100 fps with 150 TTSX's from my 22" '06. I can with 150 NBT's.
The CENTER will hold.
Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two
FÜCK PUTIN!
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Campfire Regular
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Shot thru a steel plate with a 300 win mag recently at 382 yds with a 150
Ttsx I like them a lot
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474 |
Thanks, boys. It looks like I will try that. The absolute last thing you need is another load to develop...... If you finally get one figured out, stick with it. You have no idea what I need. I agree with him, with the troubles you have....
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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My experience was with 168 ttsx's out of a 300 weatherby. No idea as to the velocity as i did not have a chrono when I was 15, but they would ring a 10 inch plate consistently at 600. Wanted to shoot one long, because why not. Whitetail does came out at 150 yards, and I let them go out to just under 500 before I plugged one. She ran about 70 yards before she stumbled over and died. Entry wound was maybe 1/2 inch and exit was 2" or so, so I would say there was decent expansion. But again, I do not know velocities of that load. I liked them though. Also it was a behind the shoulder shot, and i am sure it would have been more devastating with a shoulder shot.
Something about the indian and the arrow...
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Campfire Regular
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Another pair of caribou fell to the 168 TTSX out of my 300 Rum. Shot my bull at 323 yards high shoulder shot, dropped at the shot. ![[Linked Image]](http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a54/Thebear_78/hunting/30B2BF9B-7B3C-46D2-9CBE-08200AC9AB40_zps30zl69db.jpg) Batted cleanup on this bull. It was hit in the rear end and limping away at 657 yards entered back of rib cage and exited high on far shoulder. This bullet never fails to impress. ![[Linked Image]](http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a54/Thebear_78/hunting/C9C72814-FEDC-45B2-8243-995030BE987C_zps6ybhptes.jpg)
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Posts: 57,474 |
Nice follow up shot!
Since an old non tipped X, not even TSX expanded twice at 802 for me on caribou, I"ve faith in Barnes....
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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