Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters What's the deal with 300 RUM ammo/components?

Was told this last week by a person in the industry. I personally hope that is not true.

Got a link to anything or a name for this person?

That's a big transaction and there is literally nothing in the news discussing it.

He is with the biggest supplier/wholesaler n the industry. I'm hoping against hope he heard wrong.

I don't doubt that.

Do you have inside info on Remington's sales of the UM line prior to the shortage? I kinda figured the 300 was doing all right. Maybe I was wrong.

I guess my point was more to the effect of that Remington is hastening the demise of their cartridge. Maybe RUM sales weren't all that high in the first place, then I suppose brass/ammo availability wouldn't increase sales much if any. But if a guy looking at buying one finds out that he can't feed it, that's going to really sink the nail in the sales coffin.

If the 300 was borderline prior, then Remington has only ensured it hits the red now.

bellydeep,

I don't have any inside info, but that's what happens with cartridges that don't turn out to be all that popular: The ammo company starts trimming back factory loads to those that sell most, but make even less of those, because it doesn't make economic sense to manufacture a bunch of ammo that isn't going to sell. And when ammo doesn't sell, retailers don't order it.

Which is one reason the .300 Winchester magnum is by far the most popular .300 magnum, and probably always will be. There are millions of rifles in .300 Winchester Magnum already out there, so there's always a market for ammo. You'll find .300 Winchester ammo in any store where big game ammunition is sold, whether in Montana, Alaska or Africa. (The other reasons are it works well, even though it's not quite as powerful as some other .300's, and the case fits and functions in any "long" bolt-action, even those only long enough for the .30-06. And non-loonies don't care if it has a "useless" belt or short neck.)

One older gun writer always moaned about the lack of a variety of factory loads in less-popular cartridges, saying if the factories only offered more loads, then rifles for the cartridge would be more popular. But as noted, that's backwards: The lack of variety in factory loads is due to rifles in that round not selling well, minimizing demand for ammo.

Once a cartridge becomes a "standard," however, sales tend to keep rolling or even increase, because just about every rifle manufacturer chambers the round. Which is why just about every rifle manufacturer and ammo maker offers the .223 Remington, .22-250 Remington, .243 Winchester, .270 Winchester, 7mm Remington Magnum, .308 Winchester, .30-06 and .300 Winchester Magnum. Those are the biggies, partly because they all fit and function in just about any bolt-action made without any problems. (Some other cartridges are on the fringe of standard, including the .25-06 Remington, 7mm-08 Remington, .300 WSM and .338 Winchester Magnum, so get chambered frequently but not consistently.)

It's hard for any new cartridge to crack that line-up, because the standards and semi-standards work for 99% of hunting anywhere on earth. While rifle loonies can (and do) argue that their particular favorite is "better" than an old standard, the differences are so minor (especially for the average hunters and shooters who buy the vast majority of factory rifles) that they're meaningless in the field.

Factories keep trying new rounds, though, in the hopes that they'll become the new standards. At the very least they'll sell some new rifles to loonies, and once in a while they win the lottery. Since 1950 Remington won with the .223, .22-250 and 7mm Magnum, and Winchester with the .243, .308 and .300 Magnum.

It will be interesting to see if ANY 6.5mm round ever cracks the list of standards, but the slots a real winner can fill are pretty narrow anymore, which means there are a bunch of has-been and wannabe cartridges. And in a high-demand market like today's, manufacturers aren't going to produce ammo and brass for those rounds like they do for the standards--and in fact they might even be relieved if some of the non-standards disappeared.

Per Remington, it's not on the docket for this year either.

I guess my point was more to the fact that some of our now medium popular cartridges didn't start off very well and would have been starved into obsolescence by their manufacturer in today's market.

For example, the .338 Win Mag or .280 Remington.

Obviously, the world could probably do without either, but if that is the measuring stick, then most could go.

It just seems to me like some cartridges don't hit their peak popularity until several years or even decades after introduction and killing them soon after their release makes that an impossibility.

Yeah, cartridges can definitely increase in popularity for awhile after introduction, but today it's tougher than it was when the .338 and .280 were introduced in the 1950's.

In fact the .338 Winchester wasn't all that popular at first, except in Alaska, which I suspect is still the case. It had a little surge here in Montana among some elk hunters, but the big reason it became a factory round was Elmer Keith, who's why Winchester originally offered a 300-grain factory load.

In my experience it hit its peak in Montana a couple decades ago, but the flood of premium bullets made smaller calibers more popular among average hunters--and the .338 Winchester doesn't have enough powder room (or often magazine length) for long-range hunters. It's not dying, especially in Alaska, but isn't as popular as it was a decade or two ago, which is reflected in fewer factory rifles being chambered for the .338.

I found that out while researching an article on how many factoty rifles are chambered for the .375 H&H. In the majority of factory rifles these days, the .300 Winchester is the "biggest" round. The .338 succeeded as much as it has because for years it was the only commonly available "medium" between .30 and .375, but eventually the abundance of premium bullets in smaller calibers ate into its market share.

I dunno if the .280 has ever ever been very popular, and Remington has really tried in some ways, and screwed up in others, such as the dumb-ass "7mm Express" experiment. Jim Carmichel gave it a boost for a while, apparently because he had to promote something other than the .270, but it never was very popular even in the original Remington semiautos and pumps it was designed for, or came anywhere near the .270 in either rifle or ammo sales. Apparently the only people that really care about the .280 are rifle loonies who like to split hairs, but even among long-range hunters it's never led the pack among 7mm rounds.

A bunch of cartridges died quickly even in the 2-3 decades after World War II, when there were a bunch of gaps in factory rounds, mostly because there was no reason for most of them. "New" factory rounds usually succeed because there's some demand for them already. Good examples are the .22-250, .243, .25-06, 7mm Remington Magnum and .300 WSM.

In a way the present "new" cartridge market is a lot like the best-selling book market. In the book biz, if a new book doesn't float higher during the first month after its published, the ad campaign disappears and the publisher puts the money into some book that starts selling better immediately. There's just too little chance that yet another .224 or .30 will last very long, unless it somehow fills a popular new slot, and even then it ain't gonna make money like the .243 Winchester or 7mm Remington Magnum.

John please stop. As a rifle looney I find your words very depressing.

But seriously, what are the gun companies going to do when the public gets "gun shy" of buying the latest fad because it keeps getting discontinued?

Your comments John make me wonder about the 28 and 30 Nosler...it would seem like Nosler is really rolling the dice on these rounds. They are sure putting on a hell of an ad campaign for two new rounds in an already very congested market. Nice rounds, but to me, their only selling point is the rounds are 30/06 length, if that's important to you. There are already plenty of established rounds that get the bullet out at the same velocity, in relative terms.

bellydeep,

Good question!

However, I don't think the general public is who buys the latest in-cartridge. Instead the shooters who buy them are what a friend in the business calls "churners," those who constantly buy and sell rifles in a search for The Rifle that will change their life. The general public just keeps buying .223's, .243's, .270's, 7mm Remington Magnums, .308's, .30-06's and .300 Winchester Magnums.

My friend also noted that churners pretty much represent the profit margin in the firearms industry, which doesn't make much money on a deer hunter who bought a .270 Winchester thirty years ago and, since it continues to kill deer, hasn't ever thought about buying another, possibly better deer rifle.

Godogs,

Another good question, but Nosler's playing a different game than the big rifle manufacturers. They're not in the rifle business to sell hundreds of thousands a year. Instead it's a more specialized market, where their "basic" rifle costs as much or than the high-end rifles from high-volume companies. They're essentially making semi-custom rifles for shooters who want a step up in performance, and their cartridges offer that same sort of step.

Plus, unlike the big companies Nosler is relatively small and family-owned--or at least it was last I heard, unless the rumor that ATK bought Nosler is true. And from what I know of the Nosler family, the company's good-to-go for at least another generation.

One thing that should probably be pointed out is even if you do buy a .300 RUM or 26 Nosler and somewhere down the line brass becomes impossible to find, the rifle's just a rebarrel job away from being a 7mm Remington or .300 Winchester Magnum. And the barrel on a .300 RUM or 26 Nosler isn't going to last forever in the hands of the typical rifle loony.

I haven't heard that before but "churner" accurately described me for many years. I've slowed WAY down, now I'm more interested in some obsolete rounds.

I had already figured out 'some other' rifle/cartridge would not change my life.

For some period of time I had left the 270 W only to find out that it did what I like EASILY.

I also remember when I owned five 06s and then thot I'd never own another. Guess what ?

Jerry

Yep!

Obviously I've tried a lot of cartridges, and right now have rifles in some that are far from popular, including the .223 WSSM, 6mm Lee Navy, 6.5x57R, 7mm SAUM and .33 Winchester.

But since age 20 I've always had at least one .30-06. While the cartridge bores some people, there's never any problem finding brass or ammo, and the '06 does work quite well for 99% of big game hunting.

There is plenty a rifle loony can do without buying the latest "in" Factory round.You do not even have to depend on brass that is seldom produced.I have recently made uppers for my AR 15s in 20 Practical and 6X45.Good Prairie poodle stuff.You can make cases for all kinds of niches out of 223,308,30-06,7 Rem mag,300WSM,300 H&H cases.More fun than just shooting some one else's idea of the ideal cartridge.

Just a side note , ATK is no longer in the gun business , the company split and Vista outdoors (VSTO) is the name of the company that holds the sporting brands , CCI, SPEER , Savage, Weaver, Bushnell ETC.....
There is no information about them buying Nosler on anything at this time and beings it is SHOT SHOW season, you would think it would be more then a rumor.
Nosler seems to be standing firm alone....

300 RUM ammo has always been pretty available. Brass from Nosler, Hornady and Norma has been pretty available too. Rem brass hasn't been available since 08 as best as I can remember. It also hasn't been available for many other catridges.
The 300 rum is far from dead, but it will never outsell the 30-06, 270, 308, etc, which is fine by me. A fellow campfire member turned me on to 200 pieces of virgin Rem brass so I am set for a few years.

Since I see fellow 300 Rummers here, I will post here before listing in the classifieds. I have a couple of hundred pieces of 1X fired Remington brass. They were factory rounds, fired once. I paid $1.50 per stick. I will sell it for the same plus shipping to anybody who may be interested.

O.K. I have 180 pieces of Remington brass and 67 pieces of silver/nickel Federal "brass".