Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Help: Ammo won't chamber!! (but brass will...)

I treated myself to a nice 243 Ackley Improved from the fine folks at Cooper, and begin prepping the gun for an initial loading session and range trip.

First: Grabbed 3 handholds that I use for my Tikka 243. These are Virgin Winchester brass, 87r VMax, loaded for the Tikka chamber.

They will not load. Not a single one. I can't get the bolt to close. Every single one sticks and has to be popped out with a cleaning rod down the muzzle. I'm not shocked as they are loaded to the specifics of my Tikka. Whatever, time to try a factory round.

Second: Grabbed 3 factory Winchester Super X. Winchester brass, 100gr soft points.

They will not load. Not a single one. I can't get the bolt to close, and not even close. I'm not talking crush fit, I'm talking hitting a concrete wall-bolt not budging on factory ammo.

For my final trick, I grabbed a 243 Virgin, Winchester brand. It loads, it closes, it extracts. No sweat. Here I hold this beautiful Cooper Classic with French Walnut upgrade, but the damn rifle won't take a round of 243 win. Help!

1) What could possibly be wrong? Is there something I'm not checking? Coopers come with a test target - so they shot the damn thing, though maybe with fire formed brass from other 243 AI's built in house. Who knows. I can't imagine it leaving without someone running the bolt on a vanilla 243.

2) Why will it take a 243 Virgin, but not a loaded round?

3) Where do I go from here? I'm calling Cooper tomorrow, and I'm assuming this gun gets a trip back to it's birthplace. Never had to send a gun back to a manufacture. Any tips?

This is what I get for buying an expensive rifle. I should go apologize to my Tikka, have one more drink, and go to bed.

Load up virgin and keep that brass for that rifle. Seems pretty simple to me.

The hand load that sticks is a loaded virgin. Bolt won't close it. The factory load is a loaded virgin. Bolt won't close it.

Ok, you were about as clear as mud in your first post.

Take the virgin cases that work and make a few dummy rounds up chasing lands and see what you got.

I'm going to throw out a couple of guesses.

For your first problem, try seating the bullet a bit deeper. Sounds like you are contacting the lands and grooves.

If new brass chambers, it doesn't sound like a headspace or chamber issue.

I'd call cooper and ask how long their throat is cut, and go from there.

That sucks! Good luck getting it worked out. I'm sure they will bend over backwards for you.

Is your handloaded bullet seated out well into the throat?

Yes, my handload is seated out into the throat for my Tikka. I wasn't shocked that it didn't fit the Cooper.

But why in the world would factory winchester 243 ammo not fit? I thought this was one of the draws to an AI chamber...using the vanilla caliber rounds to fireform brass to the chamber.

Again, load a few up and chase lands and see what you have. Sitting around asking why ain't gonna do a damned bit of good.

Fair enough. Thanks for the input. I was shocked to see the factory ammo stick, but a piece of virgin brass chamber with ease. This is my first AI rodeo, so wanted to make sure I wasn't falling off the bull before it left the chute.

Is your seater die ran down to far and crimping/over crimping and leaving a small bulge just south of the shoulder. This would be my first guess a tight chamber will not like a bulging shoulder.

No.

The handload is Virgin Winchester brass that I plucked from the bag, primed, filled with 4350 and seated an 87 Vmax to kiss my Tikka. It may be a little long for the Cooper, fair enough. Different rifle, different chamber.

Just never heard of a factory rifle that won't take factory ammo. While Cooper may be on the higher end of the spectrum, I'd still expect it to take factory fodder.

And if forming jam the bullet in the rifling nice and firm as to negate the initial head space problem. Not doing so will result in a bunch of miss fires and blown primers or pierced primers.

A proper AI chamber will be cut to be a firm close on new non-AI brass/cartridges. The idea is for the neck/shoulder junction of the chamber to fit tightly on that part of the brass. If there is much variability of the brass at that point a close AI chamber may exhibit the symptoms you're seeing.

You can make good use of a Sharpie on the brass/bullet to see what's hitting where.

Thanks Math. I'm going to step away from the cliff, forget that factory ammo won't chamber, and start from the freaking start with some 243 Virgins, a seater die backed way out, and a sharpie. I bet the rifle will talk, it just tossed me for a loop when factory stuff wouldn't chamber. But your explanation makes plenty sense. Thanks.

A rifle chambered for an AI cartridge will normally fire factory ammo of the parent cartridge, but a .243 AI isn't a SAAMI cartridge so there isn't "factory" ammo for that gun. That ain't Cooper's fault, it's inherent to the nature of a non SAAMI spec reamer. Having a rifle with a short throat, particularly with a non SAAMI cartridge, is not what I'd call a problem, though it might require particular ammo.

Sharpie up some factory stuff all over and see where it's hitting in the chamber.

If the sharpie idea doesn't tell you what you need to know, you may want to do a chamber/throat cast. I'm betting that the chamber neck is minimum spec, so brass will chamber, but when you seat a bullet, the neck diameter expands to exceed the chamber diameter. Happened to a friend with a BR rifle that needed to have case necks turned. Once he turned the case necks, he was g2g.

Old70

After reading all the posts, my first suggestion is to obtain the Hornady Case gauge setup, the proper modified case and attach the bushing and base to a dial caliper. slip a bullet in and insert the gauge, push the bullet till it stops, then remove and measure.. Compare that to a factory round.

It sure sounds to me like the throat in that chamber is way small, or even non-existent.. I'd also call Cooper and find out what round they used to test-fire.

Redneck,

They used the Sierra 70 BlitzKing for the test target.

It appears I've got myself a rifle with a short throat. How short is still to be determined. When I get to my reload bench with an unprimed case, a couple bullets, seater die and a sharpie, I'll try to see whats happening.

That said... is there any upside to a short throated rifle?

All I'm thinking of is the limitations.

Limited to shorter bullets.
Limited to deeper seating and encroaching on powder charge, leading to...
Limited velocity?