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That's an astute observation.



A wise man is frequently humbled.

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Those old Greeks figured these things out a long time ago.


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Originally Posted by shaman
That's when I decided Nuge was off my list too.


Never cared too much for his constant rattling off of the mouth.


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Reading back over this, I think the topic says it all. Jim may be a heck of a nice guy, but his career ended up in the past tense as a result of that blog post.


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I think if we took a poll of men born prior to 1950 and asked their opinions on AR-15 rifles, I think we would be shocked. I think JZ is just a product of his generation. I know of no one age 70 or older who has any interest in AR's or AK's. And I've heard plenty of old guys deride them while in gun shops.

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Originally Posted by Oldwyoelkhunter

Perhaps since this is a shooting and not a hunting forum my comments may be out of line. I think that it is as much a hunting issue as it is a shooting issue so I will go ahead.

Due to my fuzzy memory I had to go back and look at Jim Zumbos original comments. My interpretation of his comments is that he was more concerned with the place of black rifles in hunting rather than simply saying they should be banned. Hunters particularly older ones tend to be traditionalists. We grew up with walnut stocked bolt and lever actions. Whenever something perceived as technologically advanced comes along there is an uproar among some who question the place of that advancement in fair chase and hunting tradition. Most of these "advancements" turn out to be no big deal and are usually marketing hype. Look at the long raging discussions in the archery world over recurve so versus compounds versus crossbows. With me the look and feel and noise of a crossbow insults my aesthetic sensibilities. If I should say this should I be banned from the bowhunting world or should it just be seen as a topic for good natured campfire talk?

Jim Zumbo screwed up in that he didn't use good judgement in how he expressed his feelings. Using anti gun buzz words like assault rifles etc did not sit well with a lot of us. The role of black rifles in fair chase hunting at the time was being questioned by some traditional hunters. That is why the industry rebranded them as "modern sporting rifles" Any new advancement in technology probably should be questioned by ethical hunters. The same thing happened when compound bows came on the scene. We were certainly allowed at the time to express our "outrage". None of us were banned or vilified. It was just the hunting culture evolving.

I thought then at the time that the reaction to Zumbo statements was way out proportion to the "crime". I still do. Whatever good the man did for the hunting and conservation world was suddenly out the window over one stupid paragraph. We get so upset with the left and its political correctness and rightly so. Political correctness however is alive and well on our side of the aisle. We sadly are hypocrites in that respect. Give it a break.



You dang sure ain't traditional if you are talking bolt guns... traditional are loaded from the muzzle.......

See what I did there?????


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Originally Posted by moosemike
I think if we took a poll of men born prior to 1950 and asked their opinions on AR-15 rifles, I think we would be shocked. I think JZ is just a product of his generation. I know of no one age 70 or older who has any interest in AR's or AK's. And I've heard plenty of old guys deride them while in gun shops.


Big difference in Uncle Joe at the gun store and a public figure who purports to represent hunters commenting on a widely-read blog.



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Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by moosemike
I think if we took a poll of men born prior to 1950 and asked their opinions on AR-15 rifles, I think we would be shocked. I think JZ is just a product of his generation. I know of no one age 70 or older who has any interest in AR's or AK's. And I've heard plenty of old guys deride them while in gun shops.


Big difference in Uncle Joe at the gun store and a public figure who purports to represent hunters commenting on a widely-read blog.


Perhaps.

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Originally Posted by moosemike
I think if we took a poll of men born prior to 1950 and asked their opinions on AR-15 rifles, I think we would be shocked. I think JZ is just a product of his generation. I know of no one age 70 or older who has any interest in AR's or AK's. And I've heard plenty of old guys deride them while in gun shops.


Im not seeing this at all, as a matter of fact, I see scores of guys who have never touched a gun outside of their old pump birdgun buying ARs.

That being said, who cares what a poll would produce? Wrong is still wrong, and those men should be ostracized from the community just as Zumbo. These are the same men who have no issue with banning certain classes of gun, as long as their particular poison is safe. To hell with them, each and every one.

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Originally Posted by battue

Answer from a distance would be ego. Outdoor editor of one of the largest hunting/shooting publications of his time. Also probably had his ass kissed for some time because of it. From readers to outfitters who wanted a writeup, he was a big man in his own mind and came to think he was more knowledgeable and influential then the rest. He obviously thought the way he did and his ego made him believe everyone else should also.


From my limited exposure to the man, I'd say you are right on with that assessment.

Big ego coupled with a less than large intellect coupled with not really being a "gun guy".

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Originally Posted by liliysdad
To hell with them, each and every one.


And I agree. Until they change their mind. Then they become an asset; especially if they have a pulpit. I.E. blog or commercial television show if you will. Doesn't much matter if it was a sincere intellectual change or one brought on by a kick in the groin. Say what you will about Nuge, but he was the catalyst for Zumbo's turn around.

Today Zumbo isn't entirely useless with regard gun and hunting rights. Not as influential as in the past, but certainly not useless. Let Bloomberg have a change of heart and start pouring millions into the pro-gun movement and he would become a poster boy for the NRA.

Last edited by battue; 01/26/16.

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Apparently very few actually clicked on the link I posted earlier in this thread.

Zumbo's career did not end, and in 2014 the National Shooting Sports Foundation and the Professional Outdoor Media Association gave him the Annual Grits Gresham Award for lifetime achievement, in part for promoting AR-15's and other "modern hunting rifles," particularly on his "Wounded Warriors" TV show.

The NSSF is the shooting industry organization that took over running of the SHOT Show after Reed Expos, the former company, told exhibitors at several shows they ran that AR-15's or other "assault rifles" would not be allowed. POWA was formed in the 1990's after anti-hunters and anti-gunners started infiltrating the older organization named the Outdoor Writer's Association of America, which was formed in the 1920's by hunting and fishing writers. A bunch of hunting and shooting writers quit OWAA and formed the new pro-gun and hunting POMA.

So no, his career was not destroyed. Those who feel it should have been should contact the NSSF, which has more than 12,000 members, including major manufacturers, distributors, firearms retailers, shooting ranges, sportsmen's organizations and publishers.


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He was rewarded for being easily influenced, and cheaply bought. Still no love from me.

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Isn't a person on here I love and many I could care less about spending time with and I'm sure many fell the same about me. Doesn't mean we are not on the same side.

Last edited by battue; 01/26/16.

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Some people either don't read or will not listen.


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Originally Posted by moosemike
I think if we took a poll of men born prior to 1950 and asked their opinions on AR-15 rifles, I think we would be shocked. I think JZ is just a product of his generation. I know of no one age 70 or older who has any interest in AR's or AK's. And I've heard plenty of old guys deride them while in gun shops.


Overall, I think you are probably right on that point. I myself am almost 72 years old and have little interest in AR-15s or Modern Sporting Rifles. My military life was with M-1s, M-14s and M-16s. Of the three the M-14 was my favorite with the M-1 second. If I could own the M-14 I was issued in basic training I would be a happy camper as it was a very reliable weapon that shot well. I just don't have those types of good memories about the M-16 I was issued.

However with all that said I don't begrudge anyone from owning any type of firearm they desire and I would never deride one in a gun shop. I am also sure the AR-15 types today are much better rifles than the M-16 I was issued in the late 1960s, but at this time in my life I am more interested in downsizing my firearm inventory rater than increasing it. Therefore I probably won't ever own one of these rifles.

One thing the intrigues me, in today's world when something firearm related is called to be banned it seems to increase sales dramatically of them. As often mentioned Obama is the best gun salesman that ever lived. As I look back to the time Zumbo made his fateful statements just how popular were these so called AR and Ak rifles? Certainly not nearly what they are today. Maybe Zumbo actually was partly responsible for the increased interest in these types of firearms because we have certainly heard much more about them, both for and against, since that time.

Could be kind of ironic, couldn't it? smile


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Jim Zumbo is best known as an Elk hunter. I doubt many hunters go after Elk with an AR15. He wandered off in an area he was pretty much ignorant about. Let it go people!

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Originally Posted by idahoguy101
He wandered off in an area he was pretty much ignorant about.


Are you trying to say he'd fit right in here?



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There is no doubt that Zumbo ticked off a lot of people with his mental misfire. Otherwise this thread would be over.

As for old people not liking EBRs, that's not necessarily true. My dadster has no problem grabbing the latest and greatest once it hits the shelves -- early synthetic/stainless Mark 5 Wby, kevlar this, that, lasers, Volquartsen whatevers, and of course, a Colt M forgery with lots of sharp edges AND a couple of "just in case" lowers.

He's never been afraid of new technology. Doesn't always master it, but he's never afraid to give it a go.

I think he's nuts, but he can afford it.


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Originally Posted by shaman
... What if John Barsness wrote a weblog entry that all pink camo hunting rifles needed to be banned by the federal government, that they were only used by women and fairies and he wanted them banned from the hunting woods and obsession outlawed? ...

(emphasis added}

shaman-

In your professional shamanic opinion, is it even theoretically possible that some persons might obsess over pink camo hunting rifles?

How might such obsession be manifested? How might the obsession be recognized by us common non-shamans?

--Bob

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