Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only Grizzly/Brown bear bullet choice, .375 H&H

I've taken three black bear with my .375 H&H, each with a 260 gr Nosler Accubond. Am happy with the performance of that bullet, and it is very accurate too.

Looks like I may have the opportunity to hunt grizzly/brown bear in the not-too-distant future.

I'm a handloader, and have accumulated quite a stash of .375" bullets. Trying to pick one for that hunt.

260 Nosler Accubonds - have a few left - and am happy with them
270 Nosler Partitions - the old screw machine bullets - have about 150
300 Nosler Partitions - some old, some new - have about 200

285 Speer Grand Slam - have fewer than 50

270 Hornady Round Nose - about 100
270 Hornady Spire Point - about 100
300 Hornady SPBT - about 200 (also very accurate from my rifle)
300 Hornady Round Nose - about 100

Any bad choices there?

Thanks, Guy

Guy, last fall 2014, I killed a moose and elk with the 260 gr. Accubond in my .375.. Did a great job.. I have shot quite a bit of big game with them from deer through moose.. Most in .30 cal. 338, and .375.. I just killed a cow elk with a 200 gr. from my .300 Wea. As near as I can tell, two bullets came apart after hitting the from shoulder.. Never had a problem before, but if I were going for big bear, no question I would take Nosler Partitions, probably the 300 grain...

300 gr Nosler Partition.

Choose which one shoots the best and put it in the vitals. Me personally would use a 300gr. or heavier bullet. Right now shooting 300gr. Accubonds,but loaded some Woodleigh 350gr.PP bullets.

I've used the old screw machine 270 Partition on one brown bear. It did a great job.I was more impressed by the 250 gr Bitterroot driven to over 2900 fps.Smashed bones and made good exits. Blood everywhere.They were the "best" at the time.

IME bears seem light boned, heavily muscled. They seem impressed by velocity and a tough bullet that expands to a good frontal area.Speed kills.

Have not used them,but among todays bullets I'd pick a 250 SAF,250 TTSX, or 250 NF in the 375 H&H.

I'm with Bob on this one. I've been there when a 300 Partition was recovered after a broadside shot on a 5' black bear. I've also been there when a couple brown bears were absolutely crushed with the 250gr TTSX, no bullets were recovered either time.

I've only shot one brown bear and used a handloaded Barnes 300 TSX. One shot did him in quickly. Although my rifle was a 375 Ruger the ballistics are so similar to the H&H the bullet performance will be very similar.

Although a number of bullets shot well in my rifle getting ready for the hunt, my outfitter mentioned that they had found insufficient penetration with the 300 Gr. Hornady factory load. That was soon after those loads were first released.

I decided on the Barnes because I wanted penetration and a bullet that would break the shoulder, as was the case with my bear, and yet penetrated a couple of feet. Just my experience, FWIW

bears can't read ballastics charts nor can they understand energy or velocity, i finally figured this out after around my 80th brown/grizzly bear....
they do however understand holes in their vitals. best kills for clients has been with .30-'06's or 300 winmag. larger calibers have been less than impressive, but still kill them just fine. i'd be less worried about which kinda bullet your choosing as where you stick the bullet you choose. this is one of those, don't over think it deals.
everything you said will work and when its all over with you'll never know if a different one woulda worked any better or worse. shoot straight, shoot often. have fun.

All of those will work but I would be happiest with someone using any of the Noslers.

I come from a long line of Alaskans and Montanans. The Alaskan side of the family have killed a lot of bears. They've always used Nosler Partition bullets. The 300 grain Partition in the .375 H&H being a favorite.

I've only taken one inland grizzly and it too fell to a Nosler Partition, but not from a .375. My father has taken a couple coastal bears now with a .338 Federal and 210 grain Partitions.

Now, to me that packs some weight...

DF

Red Rover, Red Rover, I'd choose John over Vernon or Joyce among your options as well... (I never heard another bullet lamented as much, by bear guides I know, as those 375 Partitions were - the 270 and 300- when they were no longer made for a while.)

Alrighty then. I know the 300 gr Partitions shoot well from my rifle. Need to try some of the 270 Partitions. I suspect they'll do well, as other 260 & 270 gr bullets have shot well.

Good input all - much appreciated!

Guy

Guy sounds like you have enough 270 gr screw machine Partitions to do your hunt.

But if perchance you find yourself in danger of running out,fear not.....I know where to lay my hands on some. If you need them...

They shoot well. Just don't baby the load.

Man... Your like the danged God Father of rare bullets....

A connoisseur...

DF

That's what I'd be loaded with...

DF

I've got plenty of those 300's and found out they shoot well with 75 grains of H4350, as recommended by John Barsness/Mule Deer.

But... They're kind of being held in reserve for Cape Buffalo... Beats me, I dunno, never shot anything bigger than a bull elk.

Guy

The 260 Accubonds have proven to be very accurate and tough bullets and i would not hesitate to use them on big bears. But my current favorite in the 375 is the 270 Barnes TSX. It opens well, holds together 100% and penetrates as well as the Noslers.

Thanks Phil.

Scotty: Natural accumulations.

Bullets are everything. If something worked really well, I made sure I had plenty.

I have some screw machine 180 30 calibers. I'll never use them. You want them?

They work good,but I am down to one 30 caliber rifle (30/06) and have 165 Bitterroots for that .

A freight train loaded with pig iron it does.

That's what I will be using up there this spring. Also highly recommended by my outfitter.

Guy and Ed, who you guys hunting with? What's your dates?

Brad Dennison, April 28 - May 10.

Haven't made up my mind yet. Still shopping. Talking to a couple of guys.

I was actually thinking in terms of 2017, but there certainly are opportunities available this year.

Guy

Phil,

Is the difference between "I would be happiest with someone using any of the Noslers" and your present .375 favorite 270 TSX due to the difference between somebody you're guiding, and you backing up?

guy who are you talking with? some of us might know some of them or have worked for them and know their areas and outfits a bit.

Mostly talking with Mike Gardner / Riata outfitters right now. He's got a couple of different hunts that both interest me.

Guy

BRWNBR is GTG. He's a stand up guy and in the know.

I thought I was pretty clear.

My guide was a more than an definite yes for the TSX or TBBC and "ho hum" with the Partition. This out of a 375 H&H. Just another 30 year sample I suppose.

What about this?

My first choice Nosler Partitions - 300 grain
Last choice the Speers.

I have been using various iterations of X bullets for quite a while... I am stuck on 270gr TSX in the 375AI. I have never recovered a single one, even when shot end to end.

Of those listed below, I would go with the 300 gr Nosler Partition.
My own personal choice would be the 270 gr TSX for all larger things North American. Works exceedingly well on moose and have confidence that it would work as well on large bear.
Probably not many wrong answers with a 375 H&H and any decently constructed bullet that shoots well in your rifle.
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Although not mentioned so far, the Swift A-Frame - at least the original - works well on heavy game. However, it also delivers quite a bit of energy on smaller animals, interestingly enough.

Great question.

The 270 TSX has a stellar reputation, from what I've read, in Africa so why not Alaska/Canada?

Like JB, I'd like to hear Phil's NPT and TSX comparison.

Both seem to work.

I'm leaning NPT, but am open to more info.

DF

Not me I'll take a 270 TSX any and every day.

+1 or 300 TSX.

I've caught the 300 gr partition in a blacktail before. Shot in the brisket, bullet found in a ham near the a-hole. Shot a single brown bear (backing up a buddy) and it will penetrate on a broadside thru the lungs, but I dunno about heavy raking shots or shoulder bone. 270 TSX is what I'd go with.

Exactly

MuskegMan,

The relative lack of penetration from .375 300-grain Partitions is one reason I asked Phil the question. We even discussed it the first time we met, on a visit from Phil and Rocky here in Montana several years ago. I'd retrieved two from a bull bison, one on a somewhat angling shot but the other from a broadside shot, and though bison do have pretty thick hide I'd expected the broadside to exit.

The bullets looked perfect and retained 87% and 88% of their weight, but other 300-grain .375's stopped in even small game--and not on angling and endwise shots. One animal was a mature but not huge-bodied kudu bull shot at about 100 yards, quartering away. The bullet entered the left ribs and stopped in the far shoulder, after a little over two feet of penetration. The other hit a facing warthog in the head and didn't exit the skull!

This lack of penetration from the 300-grain .375 has always seemed odd to me, as both the 286 9.3mm and 400 .416 Partitions have always penetrated plenty. Have only recovered either on angling shots through at least one shoulder on animals weighing 600+ pounds, or from broadside shoulder shots on BIG animals weighing over 1000 pounds.

Nosler placed the partition in all three bullets far enough forward enough to retain at least 75% of their weight, even if the front core disappears. Yet the .375 just doesn't seem to penetrate as well as the other two. Which seems especially odd compared to the 286 9.3, because it's so similar in weight and diameter.

Who takes you hunting, Nosler or Barnes? To doubt a Barnes is folishness.

I know guys that killed 9 foot Brn bears on Kodak using regular old hornady interlocks. Killing a bear isn't [bleep] rocket science put the bullet where it's supposed to go and you will have no issues.. Where I moose hunt in unit 13 chances of seeing Brn Bears pretty good all I have regular old 200gr Speer hot cor out of my 325 WSM loaded up. But I have buds that used 300gr tsx out of 375 to kill their Kodak bears. I used 400gr tsx out of my rigby to kill mine..

I've had full raking penetration more often than not on brown bears with the 300gr Nosler. On one pretty big boar it broke the pelvis, ranged through and punched out the chest from about 20 yards out with muzzle velocity of 2550.

I once caught a 286gr 9.3mm after it entered the lower jaw, went down the neck, and diagonally across the chest. It was found in the fat while fleshing the hide, perfectly expanded. That was about 75 yards started at 2400.

Ed,

Where did I state any doubt of Barnes?

My wife and I have killed over 100 big game animals with Barnes X's, starting with the originals, then the TSX's, and now the TTSX's. In fact, my wife was the first person to provide an elk field report to Connie Brooks from a .270 TSX, and also killed a cow bison with one double lung shot with the 130 .270 TSX. And I was the guy who suggested to Weatherby that they might consider loading the 100 TSX in .257 Weatherby factory loads, after using it for a couple of years. I've used TSX's from Alaska to Africa, and many places in between, and we take big game with them every year.

My question to Phil was about his two posts on this thread. The first one stated: "All of those will work but I would be happiest with someone using any of the Noslers."

His second post stated: "The 260 Accubonds have proven to be very accurate and tough bullets and i would not hesitate to use them on big bears. But my current favorite in the 375 is the 270 Barnes TSX. It opens well, holds together 100% and penetrates as well as the Noslers."

So I asked him why his current favorite is the 270 TSX, partly because of some of our previous conversations. I didn't say ANYTHING about doubting Barnes TSX's.

I haven't been impressed with either the 260 nor the 300 grain Partitions out of a .375 H&H. They're killers for sure, but don't penetrate like partitions from other calibers have for me. Kind of weird. Maybe it is a coincidence or maybe there's a threshold between the expansion characteristics and retained weight averages of the .375 partitions at normal speeds that limit it's average penetration...

I've seen the 260 especially be stopped by broadside shots on deer sized critters.

Come to think of it, I don't think more than just a couple animals have taken a single step after being chest shot by either of the .375 Partitions from my H&H, to include a few elk, deer, antelope and a wolf.

The lack of penetration was a surprise, but the quickness that they kill was impressive. One antelope even took a bad shot on my part, right through the guts. She instantly fell over and never moved. I can't remember if than one exited or not...

Regardless, I have never killed brown bear, let alone with a .375 H&H so doubting me would just be dumb.

Guy,
You had good luck with the 260gr. Accubonds out of your 375 H&H with black bear. If load shoots good in your #1, I would use it. Have you tried the 300gr. Accubonds yet?

Shoulder to shoulder, hide to hide, big fall (average) moose; 207 grains remain after burning 70 grains of RL15 in an H&H from around 25 yards; 300 Partition.




Shoulder to shoulder, hide to hide, young adult moose; fired from 375-350 Rem Mag at 150 yards; 235 TSX.

I have driven several lesser bullets through more than a couple bears.

Experience with Partitions on brown bear is hard and expensive to come by

So I don't have much,but here's my thoughts FWIW.

I have used the old screw machine 270 gr on my first bear and of two hits, one was recovered and one sailed on through the lungs.The recovered bullet was sort of caved in at the base,and peeled back to the Partition.

I watched a companion kill one with a 375 and 300 gr NPT and both shots exited;also another that was just flattened with the 180 NPT from a 300 Weatherby.

Friends from back here who have successfully killed Alaskan browns have variously used: 270 gr NPT-375H&H,300 gr 375H&H ,7mm 175 NPT,275 BBC from 375 H&H,270 gr-375 WW Power Point. One intrepid sort used the 270 Winchester and 160 NPT.

Another pal use a 416 Rigby and a heavy Barnes X (I want to say 400 gr). He hit his bear a bit on the bias and it was alive an hour later and still very dangerous.The bullet broke an onside shoulder but was not angled to reach the plumbing.

The bear killed with the 270 died a whole bunch quicker.Great bullets, regardless their virtues, don't guarantee us anything

All these guys came home without being eaten or mauled.

From a rooky's perspective, the bottom line is there are far more great bear bullets today than there used to be, but the bottom line is still the same....work in close, place the first shot with surgical precision, and don't screw it up. I wouldn't ever hesitate to use a Nosler Partition under those circumstances....or a Barnes, or a Swift, or NF or BBC. I know if i do my job they are all going to work.

In .375 a Barnes 270 or a Swift A Frame(just like a Partition but doesn't lose Bullet weight) also North Fork.

John, as you know my clients have killed well over a hundred big bears and I have had to assist on a number of them. Shot placement is always primary but I rank penetration second, followed by expansion and you know the new Nosler bullets have had the partition moved forward and now penetrate pretty close to the TSX bullets.
I have witnessed bears that died quickly with hits from virtually all the bullets, including 300 gr Sierra BTs but my personal favorite, and the one that I have seen give the most consistent and quick results, is the 270 gr TSX.

Good to know, although I don't think that I have enough gold left in the bank or gas left in the tank to ever made it up to Alaska again.

Thanks, Phil, that's what I wanted to know.

I haven't used the 270 TSX as much in the .375 as some other bullets, mostly because it didn't exist when I bought my first .375, but have seen it do very good work in Africa.

John, And I did say the 270 gr TSX is my personal favorite in the 375, it is also Taj and Tia's.
In the 30 calibers my favorite is the 200 gr Partitions and in my 458 I still have absolute faith in the old 500 gr Hornady RN and the 450 A-Frame.

But there are so many really fantastic bullets out there. So long as you use discretion it is hard to find a bad one.

And as you and I have always claimed, choosing a Nosler Partition is seldom a bad choice.

Great topic. Love hearing about bears and big bullets..

Bob, what was the shot angle/range and such for the 250 BBC you caught on your bear? That had to wreck a bunch of stuff before it came to rest.

Guy, how many jugs have the 300 grain PT made before stopping in your tests?

Scotty it was about 150-175 yards. He was feeding on a narrow beach and I had come in off a slimy rock pile. I waited until he was broadside.

There was a lot of damage,and substantial exits. I aimed to break bones first shot and guess I did. He spun and I aimed the second same place,opposite side. It looked like he wanted to go but seemed anchored...he started roaring.

3rd through lungs and that exited with a lot of blood thrown on the beach.

He collapsed in the front end and pushed with hind legs but could not go anywhere and died. He was busted up pretty good. They are tough animals and don't give up easy.

2 of 3 shots exited. I recovered what I think was the first bullet.

I think, with bears especially, this often gets turned around somehow. I don't know just why it happens - my depth of experience is certainly shallow when it comes to bears- but I know just enough to know that they aren't invincible when they are shot well, but that they can be nearly the opposite when they aren't. And good bullets placed poorly often get blamed.

Thanks All! I am learning a lot in this discussion. Doubt I'll ever shoot more than one grizzly/brown bear in my life. Hopefully I do get to make a shot, and hopefully I do a good job of it.

Much rifle experience here, but like most hunters, grizzly experience isn't something I've piled up much of. I've seen them while I've been fishing, that's about it. Tremendous respect for those big ol' bears!

So, terrific discussion here. I think I'm okay with my Noslers, though the TSX of course seems to be an outstanding choice.

Please continue! Am soaking up the knowledge.

Regards, Guy