Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire This deserves to stand on it's own

To be fair he repeatedly referred to it as "his grass".

He also referred to it as "his ranch". No, it's "his lease".

My wife's grandfather used to lease a couple hundred acres of land for farming from another landowner. He never called that piece "his farm". he always called it, "My lease".

I appreciate your post and the historical perspective it offered. I also appreciate your reference to case law. This issue is clearly complicated and I would like to understand it further.

It seems reasonable to contend that leased grazing land alone does not constitute a "ranch". Further, the notion of a "ranch" is generally thought of as including an amalgam of resources purposely gathered toward the raising of livestock. Grazing land (leased or otherwise) would be one of these resources. Other resources integral to a "ranch" could be: access to water sufficient to sustain humans and live stock, livestock, barns, accessory structures, a house(s), tools, implements, roads/trails, fences, gates, etc.

I'd argue, in the case of your grandfather's leased agricultural land, that although he didn't own it, in most contexts it would be reasonable and appropriate to included it in the spectrum of things that constituted his farm.

You posting from Wyoming and me from Massachusetts, our quibble over the notion of "Farm" and "Ranch" and the relationship of land to them has me thinking. Namely, that an examination of the colloquial vernacular used in ranching communities could shed light on what relationship "leases" have to the notion of ranch and what it's historical equivalents have been. The fate of the reality these vernaculars represent and has represented is what's being hashed out in courts. To do this fairly, the rancher's language and the relationships it describes should have been well translated into legal terms. I'm guessing this didn't happen. Then, over the last 80 years, the face to face, give and take, hand shake dealt, sidebar deals and the people who made them are all gone. These relationships and the agreements that came out of them tempered a law written by outsiders. The people in these communities have been left at the mercy of outsiders. Outsiders who who might not have the best interests of locals in mind.

Thanks to Isaac for a clear and reasoned reply to my question.
It will be easier if I have to vote for Trump later on to know that someone here gave some thought to who the man is.

all of this grazing on public land thing...

cattle are eating stuff that is pretty much not used otherwise, that will just wither away, and new seeds will produce new plants...

pretty renewable... and the feds aren't really selling it to anyone for any other reason...

it use to bother me that these ranchers get to let their cattle graze on Federal land, until I really thought about it.. and came up what are they hurting or who are they stealing from...

to me, its like, if I dip a cup into a creek and drink the water, have I stolen water from our federal government or the public trust? or does that start at 2 cups, 3?

In my opinion these protesters were harmless in the long run.. bunch of guys with a gripe... and the Malheur Refuge was a poor choice to voice it and make a stand over.. 60 miles south of a small town out in the middle of nowhere...

just west of Riley ( a cross roads), which is 17 miles west of Burns, there is a sign on Hwy 20.. no gas for next 99 miles.... turn south on Hwy 395 South, there is another sign.. no Gas for that many miles or more...down to Lakeview...

This is a place where there are more coyotes than cows out there... and 500 sage brush plants for every ONE blade of grass....

Seafire, it's hard to sell them corn to feed their cows, if they're getting grass for free.

They have done nothing but put a bad light on responsible public land permit holders.

One things for sure with me. I'd trust a family man/rancher like Finnicum with my family or rifle way before I'd trust the gov't thug who killed him.

maybe he was shooting up

So he's supporting that the land be returned the Native Americans based on natural law, right?

I'm just not buying it. "It" being that Lavoy Finicum wasn't a decent man. From what I've seen so far I can't make that judgement.

Ive met more than a few indians, we did them a favor by taking their land...


Sure they had a bad run for a while ..but now they have casinos

You have to pay your bills, pretty simple concept.

Water? Could be stealing it from a rancher, a farmer 1,000 miles away, or a municipal utility. Out west, every drop is owned by someone. Heck, in Colorado , you can't even have a rain barrel because that water "belongs" to someone else. smh

Don't seem like a man that needed killing..

g

You guys are killin' me...

do ya'll know they don't teach cursive writing in school anymore, everything these days is keyboard input and print. so yes grammar went down the hole, including me, I failed English and writing in school, but I make a good living regardless

Plenty do, but they all walk.

This man was killed because whites don't burn cities to the ground. Bout time we did, for our own protection.