Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire FBI YouTube video of traffic stop of Occupiers from aircraft perspective...

in a lot (most?) states now, the threshold on use of force has moved away from "what would some random reasonable person do?" to "can you articulate why YOU decided this was a reasonable course of action?"

"He did not comply with orders and I saw him reach into his jacket" is ALL that is required.

Any civilian that appeared on scene out of thin air and shot the just would be equally justified in doing so.


It seems impossible to get some to wrap their heads around this, but there DOES NOT HAVE TO BE AN ACTUAL GUN IN THE POCKET -- as long as the one who shot him can articulate he reasonably thought there might be, that's it. period. justified shoot.

Check out where he was carrying on his left side: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCcxZR4i2jI

With that in mind check out the slowed down, zoomed in footage of the shooting: http://www.oregonlive.com/#/0

It sure looks to me that he is pulling his jacket out with his left hand and reaching across with his right, at one point even looking down at the gun.

I've mentioned that in his videos he is shown wearing a shoulder holster.

Does anyone really not think LE watches these videos too?

His actions were entirely consistant with reaching for a gun in a shoulder holster

I see what you did there

He was from Arizona...

DEAD silent ( no pun intended) on that score, aren't they ?

Wonder if there wasn't an N.D. in that pickup.

GTC

Since this thread needs another post ...

I don't doubt the legitimacy of the shooting. But are there any videos from a dashcam? Somebody obviously wanted drone video, and had weeks to plan. No vehicles available for the stop that were equipped with a dashcam?

Maybe they just weren't released yet. Did I miss that?

Not drone video; helicopter.

I'd bet that a lot of folks contemplating suicide go through a lot of yes-no-yes-no cycles before finally pulling the trigger. This was suicide by cop. He thought about it for a few seconds before someone made his mind up for him. Who knows, maybe a few more seconds and he would have decided to give up. But he was already given more than enough opportunities. He got what he said he wanted.

If you bothered to read what i wrote about the basis of justifiable self defense shooting then you would see all elements were clearly met by this situation as presented by video and it was a legally defensible use of lethal force.

As has been repeatedly pointed out there doesnt have to be a weapon presented, just the threat of use and the perception a weapon is present.

If you think this was a bad shoot, then answer me as to why its bad? What necessary part wasnt met, "the basic standard"? or which of the 3 necessary elements that make up "immediate and unavoidable danger" do you feel were not present?

If those 4 things are met its a good shoot under federal law regardless of your opinion.

As far as him threatening anyone you would have to live under a rock not to have seen Finicum say he was willing to shoot it out with LEO's repeatedly.

If you notice around 10:48 or thereabout in the video right as the aircraft circles around behind the trees on the passenger side of the truck, there is an obvious shot that hits on of the passenger windows. You can see the snow explode away from it.

John

rockinbbar,



Everyone knows he was asking for it. The cops just failed to do a good job. Kinda like attempted murder fails to kill someone.

The first guy who came out at first had his hands up, then went to either his waist or the inside of his jacket. He made the movement that condemned himself to be shot. He controlled the scenario, he make the movement that forced the LEO to stop his actions.
With at least one other in the car, no aid was going to reach him. Cold hard facts given the angle from the air.

maybe the most thoughtful post on the whole mess. and the last sentence should be food for thought for all of us.

Sycamore

You either need your eyes checked or you have a hard time interpreting footage.
The guys hands were not always in the air. He took them down and reached with his right hand inside his jacket.
That to a LEO justifies taking action to stop his movements.
You'd better watch it a few more times.

the reports I have heard call a 9mm pistol in his interior coat pocket.....not exterior or shoulder holster.

we need ground level with audio.

Good Lord, guys.....................can we get past the name-calling please?
What we have here (in the big picture) is people that are protesting the abuses of our government, plenty of which are documented and not properly responded to. So many politicians that are only in it to line their own pockets, and are totally unaccountable for their actions. There are so many events that our Founders would call treasonous actions that I am constantly amazed that people refuse to see why folks like the "occupiers" have taken a stand against corruption.
Whether Finnicum should have been shot or not does not matter to me........................the fact that our government will not follow the rules that "we the people" are taught to follow is sad for all of us.

If you want examples of what I'm referring to, how about the fact that good law-abiding citizens are constantly being "fleeced" by being forced by our government to support those who are lazy and underserving and many with felonious actions ( many life-long welfare recipients) is one, the fact that politicians are not required to pay into Social Security because the are somehow judged "too special and important" is another, and they are compensated for life to an incredibly larger scale of pay than the rest of us is another. When did these [bleep] become something special?
Personally, I am sick to death of the double-standard that exists in America. I doubt very seriously that this is what our Forefather founders of our government expected to see become the norm.

lngrng's rant off..................if you think I'm full of sht, then feel free to flame me, but I still believe in America, and this is definitely not the country that I grew up in!

There is no shame here other than acting in a way that forced the cops to stop your actions. "Talking it up" and acting to become a martyr was his own decision. He obviously had plenty of time throughout this protracted confrontation to decide what to do. Even at the end of the chase, he could have surrendered. He didn't and he is dead.

60/40 equals a hung jury.

The members of this board are probably as anti-fed a demographic as any to be found in the country.

I doubt a poll of even this forum would show 10 percent questioning the police action under discussion.

Nationwide, I doubt we could find that 1 percent.

What I find funny half you guys talk it up ah man the Feds come for guns I have something for them I lived a good life blah blah blah I'm taking some with me they are not getting my guns... The minute this guy gets shot and killed you all are yeah he deserved it he's dumb ass blah blah well didn't he die for something he believed in??? Typical day and month 24hourcampfire..