Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa Double rifle, front trigger first, or rear?

I assume front first, but what do the pros say. Thanks Patrick

Many advise using the rear trigger first on really hard-kicking doubles, because recoil often causes the trigger hand to shift rearward. The natural reaction of the shooter is to then re-grab the rifle, which often results in pulling the rear trigger almost instantly after the first round's fired--resulting the rifle "doubling."

This kicks the hell out of the shooter, because two rounds going off almost simultaneously from the same rifle actually quadruples recoil, rather than merely doubling it. This is because the rifle's weight isn't doubled.

Once watched a guy who claimed to be recoil-proof shoot a .600 Nitro Express double by pulling the front trigger first. The rifle doubled because the recoil caused him to "regrab" the rifle and pull the second trigger. He lost his balance, falling over backward.

I've fired doubles up to a rather light .470 Nitro Express by pulling the front trigger first with no problem, but wouldn't try it with anything that kicked much harder. In fact, anymore I don't plan on shooting many rifles that kick harder than a .416 Rigby. Shot some real hard kickers when I was younger and dumber, including a .600 double, which actually didn't kick as hard as a much lighter .505 Gibbs.

Great advice, John and dittos on the 505 Gibbs!

One shot with a 505 gave me a flinch that I still fight.

I have been out booming with my open sighted (dialing them in) 8 3/4 # M70 416 Remington and I am doing rather well. That said, I want no more.

I still shoot the front trigger first on my 500NE. It feels natural.

Front trigger first on my Merkel 500NE, otherwise it will double (the front trigger is lighter than the rear). Having said that, a friend managed to double my rifle twice in a row each time when he pulled the front trigger first.

Just read your response again. Did you mean you had a double discharge twice because the rear trigger was used first?
I also use a Merkel 500NE, so quite interested to hear.

I've been told by serious double gun guys and two gunsmith that are trained to work on double rifles and drillings that double rifles are regulated to be fired front trigger first. I've only owned three double rifles and was not able to see much difference in the point of impact. That may have been related more to the operator than a measure of anything else. In the field, I think it would be best just to stay with which ever you find best for you. For me it was front trigger first.
Bfly

The most natural sequence for trigger operation seems to be, to me, front trigger first and rear trigger second.Most people will benefit from front trigger pull of 4-5 lb.and rear trigger pull of 5-6 lb.You need to train yourself to not be clumsy and causing a double fire due to mishandling trigger operation.Get in the habit of gripping the trigger hand as far to the rear of the pistol grip as possible,don't cram the knuckels or heavy part of the hand close to the trigger guard.
Triggers on doubles vary a great deal in quality of pull,creep,etc.Count yourself fortunate if you have nice triggers or get them worked on to suit you.

Blackfly1,

It's true that doubles are typically regulated by firing the front trigger first, but always firing the front trigger first in the field often results in the throat in the right-hand barrel wears more. This is particularly true of older doubles that were shot a lot with Cordite ammo, which was hot-burning. As a result, eventually the right barrel's velocity drops and the gun may or may not be regulated when shooting the front trigger first--and sometimes firing the left trigger first results in tighter "pairs." Of course, this isn't likely to be a problem with new doubles owned by typical sport hunters, who don't shoot them all that often!

One of my two doubles (neither a "big bore") is a .30-40 Krag built on a Ruger Red Label 20-gauge frame by an unknown gunsmith. It drove me a little nuts until I figured out it would only put two shots together when the top barrel was fired first.

I shoot my Merkel .470 NE front trigger first like it's meant to be shot. My rifle double on me and others before I sent it back for repairs and it hasn't doubled on me since.

I haven't noticed any regulation difference shooting the left barrel first or second. The left barrel just shoots better than the right regardless of which is fired first.

Several that have shot my rifle have doubled it by shooting the front trigger first. Generally those are folks that have never shot a heavy rifle so I try to make sure any that shoot it now have at least shot a heavy rifle or shoot the rear trigger first.

A lot of great info. thank you all very much. Patrick

I pull the front trigger first and have never had any of my doubles 'double' 577 NE, 500 NE and 303 British......I did however manage to break the front trigger two times on my V/C 577 Nitro, at the shot with a relaxed trigger finger I went on and tightened my right hand grip after I tripped the trigger being sure and certain to hang on to that shoulder pounding beast.

Took the rifle out to JJ while he was still in Enid and he fixed it, broke it again and returned the rifle to him again, this time he was able to contact V/C and they warrantied me a whole new and much sturdier trigger group, all is well so far, this thread is very timely as I just finished loading up 80 rounds of 577 Nitro ammo this morning, first time using the file trim die I got from CH4D dies, a very cost effective alternative to the RCBS or similar trim dies for the big bores.

Sorry for the ramble, just wanted to include some info for any newer double shooters that may be reading this thread.

Love that .303 Brit you have!

I have only shot rear trigger first when I have loaded and fired single shots. When I fired the rear trigger (left hand barrel) I noticed that the right hand firing mechanism had also released - I could tell initially because both ejectors operated when I opened the action. I then paid attention to the cocking indicator pins on the side of the action, and sure enough they both tripped after firing rear trigger first.

This happens all the time with 570gn loads but never with my 440gn (reduced) loads.

It is either the light front trigger or maybe the fact that it is articulated - hinges forward so it doesn't damage your finger from recoil when operating the rear trigger. If I cock the rifle, push the front articulated trigger forward, and then let it snap back, if will trip the sear on the front trigger/right hand barrel.

The Merkel manual says to fire the front trigger/right hand barrel first for regulation purposes but I'm sceptical. Inside the action there is a spring loaded, recoil inertia interceptor block to stop the rear trigger/left hand barrel tripping when the rifle is fired (front trigger). The other trigger mechanism doesn't have this.

I believe the newer 140A Merkels in the big calibres have the interceptor on both trigger mechanisms now.

Any decent double should be able to give the shooter his choice of barrels, especially if one is carrying a soft nose and a solid depending on the scenario. That said, it is conventional wisdom to fire the front trigger first, and most doubles have the rear trigger set to a heavier pull to avoid doubling. The doubling malady is one that has afflicted Merkels in the past as Paladin alluded to, and my understanding is this has been corrected by them.

mauserand9mm,

You might want to speak with Hebert at Merkel. Mine doubled on me and I know it wasn't me hitting the rear trigger since the first bullet hit point of aim and the second bullet hit about 16" high. That's both rounds going off pretty close to the same time. Every time I've seen someone else double from hitting the rear trigger the second bullet is usually 6-8' high.

I bought the rifle used, unfired, so it was about 5 years old when I got it. I sent it to Merkel and they sent it back about 3 weeks later and said they couldn't find anything wrong but replaced the trigger mechanisms. I asked why they did that if nothing was wrong and all they said was, "we put the newer mechanisms in". Worked for me. Hasn't been a problem since. Other than the shooter.

Here's a link to another post showing a fellow that doubled mine last year.

Jorge,

I was working on the above post when you posted. The link is to my post last year where you indicated your count then was I believe 15 that you knew of.

I haven't been around much to know of other Merkel's doubling lately.

Let me know if you've heard of any more since or what your count is now. Hopefully they have done their homework.

David

Howdy. I downgraded the count when I culled out those where folks were strumming, hence not the gun's fault. What I don't know if this issue has been fixed with newer weapons after guys like you queried Merkel on the issue.

I've never doubled my .470 shooting front trigger first (I've tried rear first but can't seem to make my brain do it).

Once or twice having the back of my finger hit the front trigger cured me of slacking off on my grip!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^



this

As I recall P. H. Capstick, wound up breaking his collarbone, after buying a double rifle for his "Return To The Long Grass". The rifle doubled up on him the first time he shot it (I believe it was a used Evans, or some other crazy expensive English double).

Best to get that sorted out, prior to going on safari.

Not to mention that would be a good way to develop a flinch!

BH63

Jorge you are 100% correct. As mentioned in one of the above posts, my Merkel is the 140A, in 500NE, and the rear trigger is quite a bit heavier than the front trigger.

I have however doubled a .470NE when I did my PH license. That happened on the shooting exam on the charging buff. Hit the buff in the throat and square between the eyes, which the second shot was obviously from the rising rifle. It was a pass, but I developed a bad flinch from that, that took me a few years to get over. Now I find the the 500NE relatively comfortable to handle. Kind to think of it, have to go and shoot a couple of new loads tomorrow.

jorge,

Apparently you haven't shot many older British doubles. While many will shoot acceptably when either trigger is pulled, no matter the quality many will do some rather odd things, either because one of the throats was indeed worn by Cordite, or they were regulated with ammo no longer available. Some require considerable handloading to shoot acceptably again, and some even need to be re-regulated.

Part of the reason I know about the re-regulation is a now-retired gunsmith who worked here in Montana for many years had considerable training in Europe, and one of his specialties was re-regulating (and sometimes even re-barreling) older double rifles. As you can imagine this required considerable time and expense, but the customers who wanted it done could afford it.

Most newer doubles are regulated with modern ammo, and also don't have the wear of older doubles, so that sort of problem is much rarer.

John: The age and wear is an after the fact issue. When those older British doubles were new, they were designed to be shot as I stated. When age and wear are factored in, all bets are off. I've probably only shot a total of five or six Brit doubles, but always right barrel first. At any rate, my point was not from a regulation issue, but the persistent malady Merkel doubles are afflicted with, that of doubling. My new (relatively) VC in 450 I've pulled the rear trigger first on a few occasions, but I cant remember if the barrels shot to POI, but the important point (and to the OP's query) is it did not double and ANY double, old, new, doesn't matter that doubles when only ONE (or either) trigger is pulled, has a SERIOUS issue. J

Thanks for the additional explanation. But the problems aren't only due to age and wear, but as I pointed out, differences in ammunition.

John, after owning just two doubles all I can tell you is the only rule is there are none. For example, my VC 450 was regulated with Hornady ammo, and it clocks right at 2080 in my 25" tubes (the box says 2150 w 28" barrels so it makes sense. what doesnt make sense is WHY 28" when nobody is building them that long, but I digress).

Anyway, I started reloading my own with the conventional wisdom that since y rifle was regulated with 480 DGXs, other bullets would not regulate. Well guess what? I tried Woodleigh 480s (soft & solids), North Fork 450s (softs& solids) and even 450 TSXs at much higher velocities (~ 2150 for the WLs and close to 2180 for the 450s) and they regulate as well or even better than the factory ammo it was regulated with. About the only other "truism" I can validate is faster drives them closer and slower, further apart. My standard is 2"@ 50 and I've easily attained that. Oh, I forgot CEBs, 480s and 450s and the only one it didn't llike were the 480 CEB solids. Go figure.

For your viewing pleasure:






NF solid@ 50

Factory Hornady@ 50, 2 softs two solids:


And last Regulation target @ 50 meters:

Marius,

I can sympathize with your affliction. I had a .470 #2 NE double on me seated at the bench. It took me a year to get over the flinching. I had to go all the way back to .22 and work up. To this day, I am not as recoil proof as I was before that incident.

Those are some pretty impressive groups, good shooting my friend. Patrick

jorge,

Yep, the more-powder-closer-together and less-powder-farther is about the only real rule. Other than that you never know until you shoot 'em.

There are a few other generalizations that often, or sometimes, work. That's about as definite as it gets. One is that heavier and longer-barreled rifles can be more tolerant. But one of the most tolerant doubles I've fooled with is my German 9.3x74R, which only weighs 8 pounds and has 65cm (25.6") barrels.

Probably the Hornady ammo is listed at 28" because many older rifles have barrels that long. Would guess there are more old .450's than new ones.

Yeah, then you know what I'm talking about, not the most fun I've had. Pretty overrated, really.
Someone in the above posts mentioned that the recoil quadruples. Would this be fact? Sure as heck feels like it.

Fair warning, a bit of a ramble, should you decide to read on. It seems there is more mythological lore around the use of DRs - especially the large caliber SxS - than any other rifle class. Although they're wonderfully magical devices, they remain mechanical machines.

I'm not a pro and haven't fired any classic British DRs, but have fired my Krieghoff 500 NE 3" several hundred times with loads ranging from light practice to full power 570s @ 2150 - a very effective hunting load with CEB monolithic solids. Having moved up to the 500 NE from shooting heavy medium cartridges in relatively light rifles extensively, tightly holding the pistol grip becomes an ingrained habit, albeit learned through painful experience.

I've always shot my DR front trigger first and have not experienced displacement of the trigger finger to the rear trigger, while allowing intentional rapid relocation for a a quick follow up. Much dry firing with snap caps, including starting from a low carry to the shoulder, rapid open sight acquisition and sequencing of trigger pull helps to build the form eventually automatically used at the range and in the field.

Having had to use a rapid follow up on my only elephant convinced me of the value of good practice, which prevents much of the unintentional operator associated doubling problem.

I've also found that a good way to avoid getting hammered by a large caliber DR at the bench is to use a bench only for practice development, and then only using a standing bench. Offhand at 25 & 50 yds., once loads are developed, is sufficient and much more useful for the type of hunting use these great rifles were intended for. Just my 2 (and 1/2) cents.

I agree. I always shoot the left barrel (rear trigger) first on my .470 for the reasons stated above. That said, the rear trigger in most doubles has a heavier pull than does the front trigger to prevent mechanical doubling (from recoil) as opposed to shooter induced doubling. In 300+ rounds over the years, my rifle has never doubled.

My rifle's maker advised that when the weapon is regulated, the right barrel is fired first and recommended that sequence be replicated by the user. I have always fired the left barrel first and it regulates just fine for me.

The most important factor in perceived recoil is rifle fit and rifle weight. In actuality, given rifles of equal weight, my perception is that there is little difference in perceived recoil between a .416 Rigby (400 grains @ 2,400) and a .470 (500 grains @ 2,150) when shooting offhand.

What kind of double do you have? Doubles, good ones that is, should regulate fine when either trigger is pulled.

Krieghoff

I apologize for intruding (I have absolutely no experience with nor knowledge of double rifles), but I am curious as to whether all double rifles have two triggers rather than a single trigger. Thanks for any response.

Thanks all. I did speak to Merkels gunsmith the other day about the 30mm rings and during the conversation, he did mention to shoot the front trigger first because that is how it was regulated. I wish I had asked him explain that further, but didn't. Since is the wife's (and mine) first double rifle, she will shoot it front first so she gets used to it. So far she is sighted in at 50 yards and it in the bull out to 200 (with the right barrel, left was just into the black. At 50 yards she is in the bull with the right and left is about 1.5" high, right. She loves it.

Sir, when I was shopping around for my double, it was the same question that I asked, as that will be the ultimate solution. Apparently you do get a double rifle with a single trigger, but if I recall correctly, and don't quote me on this, but I think it was one of the cheaper brands or along those lines.

What caliber is this in and would you mind sharing the ammunition specifics? Is it factory load or reloaded ammo? Bullet weight?
I just changed to 570gr Peregrine Brass solids in my 500NE, so have the task of getting everything sorted out before my season starts. I have 3 weeks to attend to this, apart from still having to do a couple of shows int he USA.

Actually, quite the opposite, Marius. I don't recall exactly, but I'm pretty sure it's Westley Richards and in fact, Hemingway's double was a single trigger.

Thanks, guys - I always appreciate being able to learn things like this.

I was firing my Searcy front barrel trigger first cause it felt more natural also.

I've only shot it twice so far (6 rounds a session) in .470 Nitro. So don't have any habits.

The topic came up also on a plains game safari in RSA in 2014. Most of the PHs and clients mentioned the rear trigger first method also because of the decreased chance of a double tap in recoil like some folks mentioned. Makes sense.

When I go back to training and shooting a bunch for a buffalo hunt, I'm going to practice up on the rear trigger first.

I had JJ Perodeau do a trigger job on my 500 NE. He recommends BOTH triggers be set at the same weight of pull and refers to Holland and Holland as doing so with their Doubles. I always shoot the front trigger first.

With my Chapuis 9,3x74R I went against tradition and have a single trigger. After the first shot, just trip the trigger again for the second blast.

Nontraditional and likely blasphemous in the eyes of the DR purists, but it works for me!

I have never held a DR much less fired one. The single theme that prevails is that " they are regulated to fire the right barrel first". I dont understand how firing one barrel before the other would have any effect on the impact on target if they are not being fired simultaneously. Can someone explain this to me.