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My daughter will soon be transitioning from one school to another (where do the years go?). She is also already looking at colleges. So, I made a few phone calls recently. I thought the differences were extraordinarily stark.

The questions asked of each school/college/university were exactly the same. "Can we come for a visit and a campus tour, and if so, what can we see and how do we arrange that?"

Private high school answer - "Absolutely. Please contact _________ at _________. They will be happy to arrange that visit at your convenience and talk to you about what classes and facilities you want to see while here."

Private college answer - "Absolutely. Please contact ______ at _________. They will be happy to arrange that visit at your convenience. If your daughter already has an interest in a certain subject, we'll make sure to try to get her into those classes and talk with the professors. Any facilities here at the college can be toured, so just let us know what she wants to see."

Public university answer - "Absolutely. We have campus tours twice per day; one in the morning and one in the afternoon. You are welcome to sign up for any tour that fits your schedule. If you would like more information or a more specific tour after that, then we're happy to arrange one for you and your daughter."

Public high school answer - "No, we don't allow tours and certainly not anyone who is not an enrolled student into the classrooms. You may come by the school and arrange a visit, but you will be restricted to the guidance office. If there is an athletic event you would like to attend, you may buy a ticket and see those facilities while the event is taking place. Unfortunately, we cannot allow you or your daughter, even accompanied, to enter any of the rest of the school while students are here and not to disrupt the classes in session. It's for the safety of our students."

I remarked to the public high school that their answer was markedly different from the private school, and from both the private college and public university. The answer was "those are our rules; it's for the safety of our students". I asked how my daughter and I were supposed to know whether that school would be a good fit for her, and the answer was "she can enroll here and then be part of our student body, we're sure she'll fit". I finally said that talking with them compared to the others made it seem like I was interviewing a prison for my daughter, not a school. That got a very grudging "yes, I know and I'm sorry" reply.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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There you have the weak link in the education process


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This is a result of the school administration interpreting mandates for student safety in the narrowest manner. I taught in a small rural elementary. Years ago we had occasions like Grandparents Day where grandparents were allowed to visit the school and have lunch with the kids. They were even allowed to sit in the classroom during class if there were empty seats available. Then the government started passing knee jerk rules and laws on student safety after columbine and other school shootings. My last principal decided the only way to obey the laws was to keep all parents and grandparents out of the building. He had to choose between common sense and idiotic rules.

That did away with having room mothers and other benefits to the school. Parents were no longer allowed to walk their kids to class or talk to the teachers in the hall. School and community relations took a dump as the result.

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Quoting 4Ager, "I finally said that talking with them compared to the others made it seem like I was interviewing a prison for my daughter, not a school. That got a very grudging "yes, I know and I'm sorry" reply."

What a sad state of affairs.


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Quote
I remarked to the public high school that their answer was markedly different from the private school, and from both the private college and public university. The answer was "those are our rules; it's for the safety of our students". I asked how my daughter and I were supposed to know whether that school would be a good fit for her, and the answer was "she can enroll here and then be part of our student body, we're sure she'll fit". I finally said that talking with them compared to the others made it seem like I was interviewing a prison for my daughter, not a school. That got a very grudging "yes, I know and I'm sorry" reply.
You can be sure that this school has no shooting team. Your daughter will be kept safe because no one is allowed to wear a USMC t-shirt. At the nearby elementary school, there will be severe disciplinary action against any child who chews his poptart into a gun shape. Your daughter will be safe because pointing a banana at someone will result in expulsion from school.


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Like 'most' everything else that is .gov run, they've forgotten who ultimately funds them.


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They do not want "outsiders" seeing the way they teach now days. Common Core does not go well with adults, it is meant for the impressionable minds of students.

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I am so glad my daughter went early college instead of standard high school.


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It started way before Common Core. The school shootings of the late 1980s and early 1990s caused legislatures to pass Zero Tolerance and school safety laws. I still remember the day that the superintendent came to speak to the student body and inform them that knives were no longer allowed under zero tolerance. As soon as he said it, half my students started pointing at me. I smiled and reached into my pocket and handed him my knife. He looked at it, smiled and handed it back to me.

For the first twenty or so years that I taught, I normally had a firearm in my vehicle on school grounds. There was no time to go home from work and get my hunting gear if I wanted to hunt that afternoon. Suddenly it was a felony and I would lose my job if caught.

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We went to our daughter's public school, a building that they build as an annex to the existing building. Back to school night, parents wondering aimlessly looking for rooms, etc. I said, it'd be nice to have a map or layout, so we can see what the school has to offer, where the heck we are going, etc. The answer:

"Oh no. We aren't allowed to print maps of the building. for the safety of our students." Right away I thought of Jason Bourne reading the emergency exit maps posted on the walls, as he was trying to escape a hotel in Paris. It's a crazy world we live in.


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I have a call into another public high school in the area to see if the insanity is systemic or isolated. I have a pretty good guess as to the answer.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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EXACTLY why government needs to be OUT of schools. Seems as if most places the majority of property taxes are for schools. Screw that.

You want the little bastards, you pay for the little bastards.


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Originally Posted by Steelhead
EXACTLY why government needs to be OUT of schools. Seems as if most places the majority of property taxes are for schools. Screw that.

You want the little bastards, you pay for the little bastards.


I think most parents would rather have those taxes back, so they could select a school of their choosing. No argument here.


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Originally Posted by Joseywales
Originally Posted by Steelhead
EXACTLY why government needs to be OUT of schools. Seems as if most places the majority of property taxes are for schools. Screw that.

You want the little bastards, you pay for the little bastards.


I think most parents would rather have those taxes back, so they could select a school of their choosing. No argument here.


Oh, amen to that.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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FWIW, the second public HS that I called said they could arrange a visit and tour of the school while classes were in session, but still no entering classrooms (disrupting classes, etc.). It seems to be a school-by-school issue based upon each school's administration.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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The principals and other administrators look at the same mandates and translate it into "How can I keep from being sued." So results vary according to the degree of common sense the principal has or does not have. The problem is compounded by the increasing percentage for female principals.

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The public schools have become like high security prisons, with all doors locked all the time, magnetic access cards to enter, security cameras covering almost every square inch of the exterior and hallways, gyms, and cafeterias. 'Lock-down' drills and actual lock-downs if something happens within several miles around.

I recently retired from the maintenance department in the largest school system in Ohio, and have seen the schools become steadily more oppressive fortresses.
The massive over-kill in 'security' has been brought on by a few intrusive shootings in other schools, but instead of simply solving the problem by allowing teachers, parents and other visitors to carry a gun, we now have multiple layers of 'security' and 'gun free' zones.

I don't really see much hope for anything to change any time soon.

Rant over,

Myron

P.S.: I should add that Ohio has amended it's law to allow teachers and others to carry in schools, but it is still up to the school district whether to allow it or not, and most still have their heads firmly up their azzes and won't allow it.

Last edited by speedsixman; 02/02/16.

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Good OP by 4ager - important topic - thanks.

The degredation has been gradual and steady - pernicious to the point where many schools are suffering with regard to their core purposes. I agree that government intrusion and resulting rigidity has become significant part of the current problem - and remedial steps will be required to stop the slide down past mediocrity in many school situations.

BUT - a basic enabler - and in many cases a cause - of the above has been a serious decline in leadership commitment and courage on the part of school superintendents COUPLED with the fact that most parents do not properly involve themselves and assert their ownership and diligent oversight of public schools.

The great public schools in this country - large and small - urban and rural - were built upon strong local funding/control and local assertion. Effective leaders in the form of superintendents and pricipals, and excellent teachers, were the expectation and the norm. This has been lost, and many schools are plagued by "I don't care" teachers and "go by the regs" leaders. It has been a downward spiral.

One could cite the negative role of teacher unions, politically aspiring school board members, folks who did not want to be excellent teachers and who were then turned into cookie-cutter type adminsitrators by state college masters degree programs, influence of our degrading mod culture and social media, etc., etc., etc. - but for what good?

Any real fix, and removal of deleterious government influence, will have to start with local initiative and control - parents and citizens who care enough to do the work. It takes guts, and time, and persistence.

"It's for the well-being and safety of our students"


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Sean - you should have asked if it would help your access if you carried concealed.



Nevermind, they would have traced the call and called SWAT.


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I think it will vary by location and school board considerably. If you are in a large, primarily, democrat ran city, you'll get that. The state will matter too. I would be surprised if you wold have heard that in Des Moines, but might be surprised and it would be a big surprise.

I only had one kid in public schools for a couple years by her choice/demand. She rebelled at that stage and we went through hell with her. The admin was great and very helpful and supportive to us. She's back on track and her typical great-kid self, but it happens.

I'm actually surprised you got an apology for their draconian policy. Seems the lady providing the answers had some contact with reality.


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