Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa Double rifle, front trigger first, or rear?

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As I recall P. H. Capstick, wound up breaking his collarbone, after buying a double rifle for his "Return To The Long Grass". The rifle doubled up on him the first time he shot it (I believe it was a used Evans, or some other crazy expensive English double).

Best to get that sorted out, prior to going on safari.

Not to mention that would be a good way to develop a flinch!

BH63

Jorge you are 100% correct. As mentioned in one of the above posts, my Merkel is the 140A, in 500NE, and the rear trigger is quite a bit heavier than the front trigger.

I have however doubled a .470NE when I did my PH license. That happened on the shooting exam on the charging buff. Hit the buff in the throat and square between the eyes, which the second shot was obviously from the rising rifle. It was a pass, but I developed a bad flinch from that, that took me a few years to get over. Now I find the the 500NE relatively comfortable to handle. Kind to think of it, have to go and shoot a couple of new loads tomorrow.

jorge,

Apparently you haven't shot many older British doubles. While many will shoot acceptably when either trigger is pulled, no matter the quality many will do some rather odd things, either because one of the throats was indeed worn by Cordite, or they were regulated with ammo no longer available. Some require considerable handloading to shoot acceptably again, and some even need to be re-regulated.

Part of the reason I know about the re-regulation is a now-retired gunsmith who worked here in Montana for many years had considerable training in Europe, and one of his specialties was re-regulating (and sometimes even re-barreling) older double rifles. As you can imagine this required considerable time and expense, but the customers who wanted it done could afford it.

Most newer doubles are regulated with modern ammo, and also don't have the wear of older doubles, so that sort of problem is much rarer.

John: The age and wear is an after the fact issue. When those older British doubles were new, they were designed to be shot as I stated. When age and wear are factored in, all bets are off. I've probably only shot a total of five or six Brit doubles, but always right barrel first. At any rate, my point was not from a regulation issue, but the persistent malady Merkel doubles are afflicted with, that of doubling. My new (relatively) VC in 450 I've pulled the rear trigger first on a few occasions, but I cant remember if the barrels shot to POI, but the important point (and to the OP's query) is it did not double and ANY double, old, new, doesn't matter that doubles when only ONE (or either) trigger is pulled, has a SERIOUS issue. J

Thanks for the additional explanation. But the problems aren't only due to age and wear, but as I pointed out, differences in ammunition.

John, after owning just two doubles all I can tell you is the only rule is there are none. For example, my VC 450 was regulated with Hornady ammo, and it clocks right at 2080 in my 25" tubes (the box says 2150 w 28" barrels so it makes sense. what doesnt make sense is WHY 28" when nobody is building them that long, but I digress).

Anyway, I started reloading my own with the conventional wisdom that since y rifle was regulated with 480 DGXs, other bullets would not regulate. Well guess what? I tried Woodleigh 480s (soft & solids), North Fork 450s (softs& solids) and even 450 TSXs at much higher velocities (~ 2150 for the WLs and close to 2180 for the 450s) and they regulate as well or even better than the factory ammo it was regulated with. About the only other "truism" I can validate is faster drives them closer and slower, further apart. My standard is 2"@ 50 and I've easily attained that. Oh, I forgot CEBs, 480s and 450s and the only one it didn't llike were the 480 CEB solids. Go figure.

For your viewing pleasure:






NF solid@ 50

Factory Hornady@ 50, 2 softs two solids:


And last Regulation target @ 50 meters:

Marius,

I can sympathize with your affliction. I had a .470 #2 NE double on me seated at the bench. It took me a year to get over the flinching. I had to go all the way back to .22 and work up. To this day, I am not as recoil proof as I was before that incident.

Those are some pretty impressive groups, good shooting my friend. Patrick

jorge,

Yep, the more-powder-closer-together and less-powder-farther is about the only real rule. Other than that you never know until you shoot 'em.

There are a few other generalizations that often, or sometimes, work. That's about as definite as it gets. One is that heavier and longer-barreled rifles can be more tolerant. But one of the most tolerant doubles I've fooled with is my German 9.3x74R, which only weighs 8 pounds and has 65cm (25.6") barrels.

Probably the Hornady ammo is listed at 28" because many older rifles have barrels that long. Would guess there are more old .450's than new ones.

Yeah, then you know what I'm talking about, not the most fun I've had. Pretty overrated, really.
Someone in the above posts mentioned that the recoil quadruples. Would this be fact? Sure as heck feels like it.

Fair warning, a bit of a ramble, should you decide to read on. It seems there is more mythological lore around the use of DRs - especially the large caliber SxS - than any other rifle class. Although they're wonderfully magical devices, they remain mechanical machines.

I'm not a pro and haven't fired any classic British DRs, but have fired my Krieghoff 500 NE 3" several hundred times with loads ranging from light practice to full power 570s @ 2150 - a very effective hunting load with CEB monolithic solids. Having moved up to the 500 NE from shooting heavy medium cartridges in relatively light rifles extensively, tightly holding the pistol grip becomes an ingrained habit, albeit learned through painful experience.

I've always shot my DR front trigger first and have not experienced displacement of the trigger finger to the rear trigger, while allowing intentional rapid relocation for a a quick follow up. Much dry firing with snap caps, including starting from a low carry to the shoulder, rapid open sight acquisition and sequencing of trigger pull helps to build the form eventually automatically used at the range and in the field.

Having had to use a rapid follow up on my only elephant convinced me of the value of good practice, which prevents much of the unintentional operator associated doubling problem.

I've also found that a good way to avoid getting hammered by a large caliber DR at the bench is to use a bench only for practice development, and then only using a standing bench. Offhand at 25 & 50 yds., once loads are developed, is sufficient and much more useful for the type of hunting use these great rifles were intended for. Just my 2 (and 1/2) cents.

I agree. I always shoot the left barrel (rear trigger) first on my .470 for the reasons stated above. That said, the rear trigger in most doubles has a heavier pull than does the front trigger to prevent mechanical doubling (from recoil) as opposed to shooter induced doubling. In 300+ rounds over the years, my rifle has never doubled.

My rifle's maker advised that when the weapon is regulated, the right barrel is fired first and recommended that sequence be replicated by the user. I have always fired the left barrel first and it regulates just fine for me.

The most important factor in perceived recoil is rifle fit and rifle weight. In actuality, given rifles of equal weight, my perception is that there is little difference in perceived recoil between a .416 Rigby (400 grains @ 2,400) and a .470 (500 grains @ 2,150) when shooting offhand.

What kind of double do you have? Doubles, good ones that is, should regulate fine when either trigger is pulled.

Krieghoff

I apologize for intruding (I have absolutely no experience with nor knowledge of double rifles), but I am curious as to whether all double rifles have two triggers rather than a single trigger. Thanks for any response.

Thanks all. I did speak to Merkels gunsmith the other day about the 30mm rings and during the conversation, he did mention to shoot the front trigger first because that is how it was regulated. I wish I had asked him explain that further, but didn't. Since is the wife's (and mine) first double rifle, she will shoot it front first so she gets used to it. So far she is sighted in at 50 yards and it in the bull out to 200 (with the right barrel, left was just into the black. At 50 yards she is in the bull with the right and left is about 1.5" high, right. She loves it.

Sir, when I was shopping around for my double, it was the same question that I asked, as that will be the ultimate solution. Apparently you do get a double rifle with a single trigger, but if I recall correctly, and don't quote me on this, but I think it was one of the cheaper brands or along those lines.