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Shaman,

The RAR in .223 will have you shooting jugs, groundhogs, crows, and all manner of things year round. Fun, and great practice. Set it up similar to your favorite large caliber bolt gun, and commence to having a blast.

You're probably right. Hmmm. Now that you mention it, I have that Rem 742 in the closet. I could have it re-barreled at the same time I'm having the pump modification done. Ahlman's doesn't show it as one of the choices, but maybe you could lend me the reamer.

24 GA is out. I'm scared I'd get the loads mixed in with my 20's. I did that once with 16 GA shell on a bird hunt luckily the 1100 didn't come into battery.

You bring up very good points. The problem is that I'm probably not a real gun loony. At times I show signs of it, but I have this nasty practical streak. I'm not proud of it. I'd much rather be sitting in my reloading cave plotting how to get 280 REM performance from my 7.5X55 Swiss (or is that the other way around?)

The truth is, I've managed to put together a fairly complete collection of everything I need, and I did it well before hitting 60. I suppose I have you guys to thank for that, in part. It also goes back to hanging out with some really great fellows early on.

Pistols. Hmmmm. That might be an interesting diversion. My only big problem is that I filled all the big niches over a decade ago. I keep thinking about it, but it is hard to see the benefits of a .327 over .357.

The only big change in my shooting non-hunting shooting habits has been in my relation with the coyotes. They got to be a real problem last year. A neighbor had one make a run at him while he was walking between sheds. I had a pair go after my dogs. My response was to issue a standing order at camp: all persons going beyond the curtilage were to go armed. At the same time, KYHillChick and I both got our CCW's. I did not want to get picked up for carrying a loaded firearm in the truck, just because I'd forgotten to unload.

'HillChick has had a GP100 for 10 years. I had a Ruger P90. I added a Ruger LCR in .357 Mag in the spring for in-town 2-legged vermin. Depending on the mood, I'm now carrying either a Ruger Blackhawk or a Marlin 1894 in .357 Mag, depending on my mood. However, as you can see, I'm being waaaay too practical, mostly re-purposing what I already had.

I'm beginning to think the .223 REM idea is the way to go this time around. I have a Savage 340 in .223 REM. But it is not the best platform for starting out on a quest for accuracy.

You need something with a larger bore. A Marlin in 45-70 or a custom 45-70 on a Siamese Mauser.

I've always thought 45-70 rifles were missing something, specifically trunions. However, I'm open to being convinced.

Recoil-wise, I'm starting to think 35 Whelen was my high-water mark. That's one of the reasons I bought "my last 30-06" a couple of years ago. I figured there was going to be plenty to explore south of that mark over the next 40 years. My idea now of a hero's end is being found stone cold dead with a 300 buck's antlers in both hands and a .223 Rem strapped across my back-- at 105. I'm working my way there slowly.

I had to give up bow hunting in 2007, because of a bad shoulder. It generally does not bother me, but I had a flare up after my last all-day 35 Whelen load development. It's not a major factor, but something I consider.

a merkel 28 sxs and a sako 6ppc.

Shaman,

A friend built his bolt action .223 on the small Sako action some years back. I shot some varmints with it, and it was indeed fun.

I like different too, and the .41 Mag guns qualify (rifle and handgun). I think for your coyotes a Glock 20 in 10mm would be the package for your packing solution.

Also one of the small Chay Zed rifles in 6.5 Grendel is on my list...

jim

Well if you are open to being convinced, a 500 gr cast bullet at 1300 fps will give you complete penetration on a ground squirrel.

I've found that a 250 gr Speer out of my .35 Whelen works well on ground squirrels.

I'm using a 200 grain cast in my 35 Whelen now. I've yet to take a deer with it, but it is the SHIZZ on chipmunks-- good penetration, and it makes a convincing crater.

Hint: put a pile of sunflower seeds underneath your 100 yard target stand.

Y'all have given me good advice, and I'm definately leaning towards a .223 tack driver project.

So what do you think?

RAR?
Ruger Hawkeye Varmint/Target?
Savage Axis?
Sumtin' else?

My main goal in this project would be starting with a rifle that I won't be able to blame for any inadequacies in accuracy out of the box or after minimal improvement. I'd like to concentrate on the loads and my own wretched shooting form.

I concur on the 16ga recommendation. Svelte like a 20 ga, kills like a 12.

I'm also "looking" for a SxS, but the prices are scary when it comes to a clean, quality firearm (while still aesthetically pleasing). I currently have a pump (Win 97) and autoloader (Rem M11) and an O/U (Citori) all in 16ga. One of the local funstores stocks Fiocchi ammo and I buy them by the case.

Kaiser Norton

For an out-of-the-box .223 tack-driver, look no further than a Savage 10-PC. My son has one in .308, I have the 10-FPC in .308, and my nephew has a 10-PC in .223. All were tack-drivers right out of the box with factory ammo.
Full length aluminum bedding chassis (AccuStock),AccuTrigger, fluted semi-bull barrel, threaded for suppressor or compensator, factory attached Picatinny rail, and two front swivel studs, plus perfectly balanced, it isn't your superlight walking varminter, but it isn't a bench monster, either.

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Ed

Not easy to find in your local gun store, but worth every penny and more.

Fast twist .223's?



But I also think you need....

Good advice here. My 10-FCP-K in .308 is ridiculously accurate, so much so that my buddy bought the same thing. Both are 1/2 minute and under rifles. That said, handle several of your choices and see what feels good to you. They're all good rifles. Then let your wallet be your guide from there.

If your looking for a "tack-driver" I've heard the various .17's can shoot. Both rimfire and centerfire versions.
I've been toying with a .17Hornet or .17Fireball.
I've heard the 204 Ruger accurate also.
Just a thought of some I've been thinkin of.
Also, maybe think a T/C Encore fit your fancy? Then when your in such a dilemma, just buy another barrel.

Shaman, the 77/44 is a good knock about. 300 gr paper patch makes it a great one.

If you want to get totally distracted get yourself a good flintlock long rifle. More fun than a barrel of monkeys. They over penetrate munks pretty much. A .45 is a good place to start.

When I first read your post a couple days ago, I started racking my brain for a solution. In the meantime, it sounds like you're now leaning towards a smallbore tack driving rifle, but just in case you're still thinking..

I know you said you had all the .22's you needed for plinking, but do you have a good .22 handgun for a trail gun? You know, just in case a rogue pop can/ snake/ or other target of opportunity presents itself and needs perforating?

I've been thinning and adding to my arsenal for years, trying to keep the numbers minimized but sufficient, (and like Phil Gramm, I think I've got a few more than I need, but not as many as I want).. but recently rediscovered the joy of plinking with a .22 pistol.

I had a heavy Ruger Mark I bull barrel, and it was an accurate and sweet gun, but like my 4" 629, at nearly 3 lbs, it was too darned heavy to just pack around without a purpose.

After doing some thinking and research, I ended up buying a Ruger 22/45 Lite, doing a few small modifications, and buying a holster for it.. but one of the Browning Buckmarks would've worked just as well too.

After running a few of some of my favorite loads through it and confirming it's both reliable and accurate enough for the purpose I have in mind, I decided to take it on it's maiden voyage of said purpose. A hike up the hill, through the woods, find an impromptu target, then run a magazine through it without ear plugs.

Quickly decided that Velocitors, unmuffled out of a short barrel without ear protection, is borderline painful. Next, when I get the funds, I'd like to add a suppressor.

Oh, another thing, I'd never really seen the attraction to AR's, but a few years ago I thought it would be a good idea to get something that could function as a longer range self-defense gun/ plinker.. just in case.

I'd always wanted a .444 marlin or .45/70 lever gun, but in the end, went with something "more practical" for my side of the country.. a stainless Marlin 44 mag lever gun. Besides, I've owned more than a few .44's over the years, loved them, and already had a boatload of reloading components for it.

Gotta say, it really made my day, heck decade! to learn that Ohio had opened up the deer hunting regulations to allow "pistol caliber" rifles a couple of years ago. Also, it's been a real pleasure to develop loads, sight it in at the shooting bench, and to use my own handloads to kill deer these last couple of years. No more $3-a-shot, deer slugs with near elephant gun recoil for me... unless I happen to be in the mood.

That being said, I'd really like to have one of those Ruger 77/44's like Digital Dan was talking about. I just prefer the feel of a bolt action over a lever gun.

P.S. I finally decided to get myself an AR last fall too. Gotta say I wish I'd have done it years ago! It's a fun gun to shoot!

.223 all day.

Good, cheap, rifles along with good, cheap ammo and/or brass. Easy on powder and your old achy body. Odds are good one will be a tack driver out of the box with minimal fiddling. Deadly on milk jugs and similar game.

Buy one and go shoot.

BMHenry: I'm pretty well covered on .22 pistols. I have a Ruger Mk II 10". 'HillChick has a MK I. I have well-worn Single Six convertible for plinking. We have a long term project of resurfacing the area around the front porch in brass.

Medina County? I spent several weekends at your fairgrounds watching my son play bagpipe competitions, and I have family that hailed from Brecksville.

Seeing Ohio open up a little on its firearm restrictions was bittersweet for me. I had enough of the Sunday hunting ban, slug only hooey and moved my hunting over to Kentucky. I'm now invested in property and planning on retiring across the river. I can't help thinking about it. Perhaps one day. . .

I was close to buying an AR in December. I am not all that enamored of them, but I get worried at times. We have an ex Special Forces Vietnam vet in our extended circle of friends. His preference in those days was for Mini-14's. He found them more dependable. Of course we're talking a different generation of the M-16 for comparison, but if he was satisfied with the use of the Mini-14 for his line of work, I figured I'd stick with my collection of Mini's. I ended up buying some more 20 round magazines, and figuring I'd pocket the difference. As a strap-on-your-back plinker, my stainless mini-14 is perfectly acceptable. However, I normally carry my 357 Mag lever. The Mini-14 is a real brass flinger. I suspect my stainless of being able to fling them trans-dimensionally.

The 44 Mag idea is damn intriguing. I may yet go that route. If not on this venture, then soon.

I'm getting comfortable with the .223 REM bolt gun idea. So I'll repeat my question from last week: which one? So far I've got a couple votes for the RAR, and one vote for the Savage.


Thanks again everyone for helping out.

As far as the 44 mag goes, 1 thing to consider is the Ruger 77/44 is a 1/20" twist where the Marlin 1894 is a 1/38".

I surprised nobody has suggested a Tikka for the .223.

Fun, ain't it?