Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors Question about wood re finish.

I got this old marlin 36. I Zipp stripped it. Now what? The color is not uniform from the varnish removal. I would like to get a uniform color without a shiny finish....more of a satin finish. What should I do? Thanks John

I like using water based stains for blending lighter areas in with the darker and have found good old Birchwood Casey walnut stain easy to work with. After that there are many recipes out there for adding the red tint so often seen on older factory finishes. I also like a finish that does not build on the surface and lives within the wood itself. For that I prefer Pro Custom Oil gun stock finish. G96 Linspeed can be good too but it will build on top of the wood if you don't watch out. I think that this type of finish requires a bit more elbow grease to do right. There is a good discussion about stock finishing going on right now on the Gunsmithing forum.

Ixnay on water based stains (they can raise the grain unexpectedly) and oil based stains from the hardware store (they tend to muddy the wood figure and don't penetrate very well and are prone to UV light degredation). For my money there is no better coloring agent (if I were to color a piece of walnut in the first place) than analine dye, formulated with alcohol-- penetrates well, doesn't raise the grain, and the color really "pops" when finish applied over top of it and stays that way (highly resistant to UV light degredation).

Linseed oil is at the bottom of the list for wood finishes- it provides about zero protection. That, and any of the proprietary "oil finishes" sold to unsuspecting folks under the guise of "gun stock finishes" would be my last pick. Unfortunately, many factory and military stocks were finished with oil and therein lies its best reason for use in refinishing- to restore a factory finish. Why did the factories/arsenals use oil? Because it was/is quick and cheap, not because it's the very best possible finish. At the very least, wax the bejesus out of it when done so as to provide a modicum of protection against water fenestration.

What exactly does your stock look like at this stage? Pics would be an enormous help. I assume the wood is walnut? If it is splotchy after stripping and initial sanding, I would submerge it in acetone for nigh onto a week to try and leech out any agents present in the wood that are making it splotchy, and then re-evaluate. (And post pics!)

Barrier finishes are ever the best, especially on guns that expect to see inclement conditions in the field. Matte or semi-gloss finishes are to be avoided though- they are created by adding microscopically ground silica to the varnish and as such are far less resistant to UV light degradation- the real killer of all finishes. Best to use gloss anything, and rub it out when done to achieve a "soft" look.

2 questions: Is analine dye readily available and easy for us mortals to work with?

Will the wood absorb the acetone to a degree that it would affect later efforts to apply the final finish?

Yep. Any decent online woodworking purveyor can have it on your doorstep as quickly as the Big Brown Truck can make it up your driveway. Another great colorer is Behlens Solar-Lux stains. They don't tell you what they use in them as a carrier, but I have thinned it with alcohol. SolarLux has all the characteristics of analine dyes and is found all over the internet.

No particular skills are needed to use dyes. Wear latex gloves (unless you like splotchy fingers), swab it on with a soft applicator (heck I just use a folded square of paper towel), keep as big an area wet as possible (work fast) so as to avoid overlap. Wipe dry immediately- don't let it stand. Allow to thoroughly dry before applying finish. An hour or so is good, overnight is better. Also, often the freshly colored wood will look "oh my god dull- what have I done". Don't worry, the application of finish will make it pop in all its glory.

I use a fair amount of Behlen's Light Red Mahogany when striving for that antique reddish hue, but I thin it with alcohol because I don't want a really red effect. But like I said, I don't often stain walnut. I like to let the natural color shine, brother, shine. A quart of the Light Red Mahogany is still half full after 20 years of use...

The acetone soak won't hurt the wood in the least. Just give it a chance to thoroughly dry out afterwards. Again, overnight is your friend.

Also, if you spring for a bottle of SolarLux from one of the woodworking purveyors (Woodworker's Supply, Woodcraft, etc.) treat yourself to a can of pure tung oil and mix it 50/50 with spar varnish and thin with a couple drops of mineral spirits, and use it as your "oil finish". (Slop it on, leave set for ten minutes, wipe dry. Let dry overnight. Rub out with 600x. Repeat one or two times. Done.) Don't forget a can of cabinetmaker grade paste wax too. Your guns will thank you for it.

Now if you're talking about a pore-filled smooth finish, there are additional steps, different techniques, different substances.

tag

2x

Forgot to add another very important detail about stain/dye use- do a test on a piece of scrap or on a hidden surface of the stock before rushing into it to make sure it's exactly what you want. Once it's on the wood there's no turning back, you're committed like it or not.

Interesting, I'll have to try the dye and 50/50 tung spar varnish the next time. What make of spar varnish do you recommend?

I sent the pics to you gary. Should I color this stock? How much more needs to come off before the acetone soak? If I am not to color what finish should I use? How does Thompson water seal work..do you know? Thanks.

For this purpose any spar varnish is ok, but the higher the solids content the better. The very best, IMO, is Epifanes but it is insanely expensive. Truth be told I've been using Minwax brand Spar Urethane of late and am liking it. Did a couple stocks with it and am pleased with the results. One advantage of it is you can find it in about every hardware store or big box store.

Regular polyurethane can be used, but I (and a lot of wood finishers I know) prefer good old fashioned spar varnish.

Thanks!

gnoahhh, I'm probably being a little lazy here, because I think you've described this before . . . but can you go into your application method (including time between coats and any sanding) with the mixture and how many applications you like to use. Thanks!

I wouldn't color it, John.

What finish? Depends on how you'll use the gun.

I don't know about Thompson's Water Seal, I never used it- one can't possibly try everything on the market! (Although I have heard lots of good things about it, and know that John Bivins used to use it on his period-correct muzzle loader stocks.)

It is going to be my all round carry on the mules kind of thurty thurty. I will look 4 spar varnish

1. I sand to 600x for an oil finish (320x if doing a varnish finish). Now's the time to color the wood if you're going to do so. If not, and if going with a simple oil finish, I then slather on a coat of the oil mix, wait a bit and re-slather areas that the oil soaked into quickly. When the oil is laying on the wood uniformly and not soaking in anywhere anymore, wipe it off completely dry. Let cure over night. (A quick note about safety- dispose of all oil soaked rags properly. They can spontaneously combust under the right circumstances. I put them in a bucket of water and then eventually toss the sodden things in the garbage.)

2. Now here's where it gets a little tricky. If you have stained the wood, it's very problematic to sand the finish and not burn through the stain. Lightly burnish it with 600x again, or use 0000 bronze wool. (Do not use steel wool unless you want teeny broken off steel fibers embedded in the wood that you won't see until they decide to rust on you, exhibited by little brown freckles.) If you do burn through the stain, touch it up with some stain on a q-tip or something, let it dry and re-oil the spot.

3.Repeat the oiling process. Let dry overnight again. That should do it, but you can repeat steps 2 & 3 if you think it needs it.

The wood will tell you when you're done.

Apply a coat of good furniture paste wax, and run down to the bar to show your buddies what a swell job you did! (Or take a pic and show us!)

If you want a pore-filled smooth oil finish, there's another step to undertake before slathering on the oil- stop sanding at the 320x stage, and brush on a coat of spar varnish. Sand it all off right down to bare wood without sanding the varnish out of the pores. Repeat as necessary until you have the wood sanded smooth and surface texture is at 600 grit. Kinda tricky and requires patience- go slow. You should end up with bare wood with the pores filled, such that it reflects like a mirror when you angle it toward the light. Now you can do the coloring (if you are going that route), and the oiling in steps 1-3.

A note on sanding: only a newbie or Bubba sands with bare paper held in his fingers. It's good way to make the wood surface wavy. Always use a semi-flexible backer behind the paper. Think big gum eraser or somesuch. (Auto body supply houses carry sanding backers for sanding on curved surfaces.)

Also, leave grip caps and butt plates in place when sanding so they are mowed down along with the wood to keep the job looking professional, and also to prevent rounding over of the wood edges that'll look dumb when re-installing the furniture onto the freshly finished stock. You can touch up the edges of those items (if steel) while you are finishing the wood. If plastic or hard rubber furniture is in use, I just leave them in place right through the whole finishing process. Now's a good time too to either replace all the screws or refinish them too.

Be doubly darned careful when working up to the edges that bear against the tangs, or anywhere the wood mates up with the action. Don't take off so much wood that the wood level is below the steel, or even worse- rounded over. Leave those spots the hell alone and oil-soaked dark if necessary- it's better than having the wood lower than the steel line.

Hope this helps. Feel free to ask if you need clarification. Buy me a beer the next time we meet!

For rough all-weather use I would go with spar varnish, John.

Has anyone used Arrow wood finish? Iv had pretty good luck with it!

+1 on Arrow wood finish, I have used it in the past. I have also used Pro Custom Oil, my current favorite is Timberluxe. I use the Timberluxe stain when I want to add color to the wood otherwise the finish works very well by itself.

So I used some kitchen scouring pad and got the old varnish off. I am gonna soak wood in atone overnite. Dry it out for a day or so. Then spar varnish. What do I use to apply varnish with? Thanks.

I have an article from the NRA that was published in the late 50s that recommends a coat of spar varnish as a pour filler and G96 Linspeed as the finish. I've been meaning to try the spar varnish for filling the pours for some time now so it's been interesting reading gnoahhh's instructions. My next stock may go that way but topped off with the 50/50 spar/tung formula.

I have a collection of badger bristle brushes I've been using to varnish for about 20 years now. Obviously that's what I favor. (I store them suspended in a solution of turpentine and linseed oil. Keeps them supple.)

Truth be told, I often cheat and use disposable foam brushes too.

Ok Gary. I got some Cabot Tung oil finish...is it ok to mix with the min wax helmsman gloss spar varnish? The Cabot Tung oil finish has mineral spirits in it already.....should I still add more to the mix? I could not find wax but instead Howard feed and wax. Wood polish and conditioner. Has petroleum distillates? Safe to use? My next refinish is a 99 g. Do I have to get all the metal off the forearm before the acetone soak. Don't worry about me having to return stuff I don't mind and neither does the store. Thanks John

Tung oil finish is actually a thinned wiping varnish, with god knows what added to it. I bet it's pretty runny? I would try mixing it with the varnish to thicken it a bit, since you're going for an oil finish effect anyway. Note: pure tung oil (or decent linseed oil* for that matter) isn't likely to be found in the local hardware store or big box emporium. It has to be ordered in from the outside world.

If the "feed and wax" has petroleum distillates in it I wouldn't use it. That kind of product is designed to separate housewives and cleaning ladies from their money. It gives a beautiful easily applied effect that is temporary at best, resulting in repeated applications to maintain the glow. That just means you're piling more and more petroleum based gunk onto the wood which breaks down the UV protective qualities of the finish and attacks the wood over time. Stay away from it if you can. Seek out a good paste wax. Johnson's is an old stand by and can often be found in grocery stores. Stuff like Butcher's, Trewax, Renaissance, etc. can be rounded up online- they're all good. Don't skimp on the wax phase of an oil finish project, for therein lies the only real moisture protection you're actually giving the wood.

*Boiled linseed oil you get off the shelf is the lowest grade oil from the linseed pressing/refining process, with metallic compounds added. Better to seek out artist's oil from an art supply store- it's pure. Then add a drop of Japan drier (from the same supplier) to speed its curing. Can be substituted for pure tung oil for the exact same effect/utility.

OK thanks! Gives me a reason to go bug the paint lady....thanks. by the way the acetone soak was impressive in cleaning up the splotches.

So I guess we are going high gloss! That way when my rhino radio goes dead I won't need a mirror to flash my buddies my location. Just use the old rifle. Better in lay a compass huh?

Now you're cooking with gas! (If you don't like the glossy end result, just rub it out with extra fine bronze wool, then wax it which will restore it to a warm glow.)