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Here's today's dtiquip from John Farnam:



“Open” Carry

The State of TX has recently authorized “open” (exposed) carry of guns
within the state. Lots of details yet to be worked-out, but the legislation
has gone through. AZ and some other states have technically permitted the
practice for some time. And, even in states where there is no specific
legislation, the practice is commonly noted in some areas.

My advice to students is not to carry openly. When open carry becomes
common, even expected, I may join in. Until then, I’ll leave the practice to
those far more in need of fame and recognition than me!

To me, it is similar to wearing a T-shirt proclaiming your particular
political party. Why do you think everyone who sees you needs to know that?
How does that benefit you?

My personal philosophy of appearing in public revolves around always
projecting a low profile. I don’t think it is in my best interests for me to
inadvertently, nor intentionally, broadcast important information about
myself, information that is no one else’s business!

So, I discretely carry concealed. I am always heavily armed, to be sure,
but you can’t tell by looking, nor do I talk about guns, politics, travel
plans, et al with people I don’t know. Precious few people have a
legitimate need to know any of that!

I do my best to be courteous, polite, and pleasant with everyone, but never
chatty with people I don’t know. I don’t want to appear “interesting”
nor “beauteous” while in public. I just quietly go my way and conduct my
business without fanfare. I believe that philosophy adequately represents
my best interests.

Be a “stand-out” when you are so inclined. Just be prepared to garner
far more “attention” than you ever wanted!

/John


Those of you who have spent much time around John may question his ability to be "low profile" but his sentiment is clear.

Here in Wyoming, other than in dowtown Jackson and on campus at the UofW, open carry prompts more interest in "what" you're carrying than "that" you're carrying……still it's one of those issues that seems good legally but bad practice. 34 years ago I worked for Bianchi Gunleather and one of our greatest concerns was handgun retention (building holsters that were "draw-proof" to anyone other than the one wearing the holster). I'm guessing that 99.9% of the non-LEO gun carriers have never had a class/practice on weapon retention. They're a gunshop-on-the-hoof for a potential perp needing to arm themselves quickly if they are open-carrying.

Regarding the "need for recognition," it kind of ties back in to the discussion of the "Cowboy" vs the "Tactard" LEO outfits…..the older I get, the more I find the truth in Lao Tzu quote, "those that know not talk and those that talk do not know."………well, I've talked too much…...

I am in agreement with Farnam. I see open carry of a firearm much like walking around with a Rolex watch or other valuable baubles in plain view. It will get a lot of attention and some of it will be less than desirable.

that attention would not only be from potential thugs but also police officers if they were called for a "man with gun". Some people would call due to fear or concern, others would call for sheer cussedness. Either way, the possibility of problems outweighs any positive factor I can see to open carry.

And there is the retention issue too. It sits rather low in my eyes but then concealed carry mitigates some parts of that. I tend to think of retention more often when talking carry issues with women as so many plan to keep their gun in their purse. Not quite the same but it is a retention issue.

My dad and my mom wear a Rolex daily. I wear my Trump shirt once a week. While I do not open carry, I could not give two fugks if people do.



Dave

I open carry in the field, not in town. Not smart to stand out in a crowd. I'm all for open carry and if that's what you want to do then more power to you. But I would much rather carry concealed and not stand out or make myself a target.

I could walk around with a parrot on my shoulder and 95% of people would never notice.

While there are a few guys around here who open carry looking like Longmire without the badge or a guy who works a ranch for real and doesn’t need no stinking gun to pound a human into the dirt, way more open carriers look like total tools with BDU pants, wilderness instructor belts, clip knives, and gun logo and/or conservative Amuriken slogan shirts and hats. It’s not like you wouldn’t figure they were carrying anyway. What does change with the open carry is my propensity to look over the tacticool guys and think “I bet I could get that gun and put it where the sun doesn’t shine before he knows what hit him.” I bet I am not alone in that thought process. At least I don’t have the need or desire to test it.

The proxemics of everyday life make it really hard for a guy walking around Walmart to maintain a good reactionary gap without being extremely rude or threatening people. Even the people who wouldn’t notice a parrot on a guy’s shoulder will still creep into his personal space in the tailored spandex section or the checkout line. I also notice that a lot of kids with sub-optimal parenting have a tendency to reach and grab for guns when they see them.

If somebody wants to do it, though, it's their right.

Florida Legislature is considering a bill to allow open carry.

If it passes--ok.

I will not open carry-- may as well wear a shirt that says---shoot me first!

While I strongly support the right to open carry, I don't see the need for me to do it............yet.

I prefer to follow the low profile route & hope that if I ever need the weapon in a social intercourse situation, a little bit of surprise might be a small edge.

MM

Kentucky is an open carry state. You will occasionally run up on people who opt to carry their sidearms openly.

We get complaints at post every once in awhile from yankees who are driving through.

"Please send a Trooper. We are getting gas at the truck stop and there is a man pumping gas beside us, and he is wearing a gun."

Is he pointing the gun at you?

No, but he has it on his belt.

Lady, this is Kentucky. Everybody has a gun.

If you see him point it, or waive it around, call us back.

Click.


Now, on the flip side, if a real evil doer is afoot, he'll bump off the open carry guy and give me time to put a plan together.

I'm alright with the open carry folks myself.

Odd. I live in an OC state where CC is legal. Folks OC all the time; I see at least a dozen (and not always the same people) daily, often more. No one gives a schit.

TFF. What most here apparently don't understand, is the open carry movement took off after local PD's disarmed citizens carrying openly during the ensuing riots after Katrina, charged with "brandishing".

Some libtard communities had also prosecuted CC'ers who allowed a handgun to be inadvertantly exposed reaching for something on an upper shelf in a store.

I agree that the wise falcon hides his talons, but options come in handy, and anything that restricts officer friendly from being able to dick with me is a positive.

Impossible. You'll be gunned down immediately upon leaving your home if you OC. I read it here. Over and over and over again.

I've worn a Submariner daily since May of 87 and never ever has it drawn negative attention and I live in the biggest criminal $hit hole in America.......I do agree with you about open carry!!

Survived today OC, and will do so again. Hell, tomorrow's "adventures" include the f'king grocery store (again) while going OC (again). I tremble at the prospect of encounters with soccer moms, grannies, and college students while OC (again).

Truthfully, no one gives a f'k.

but the legislation
has gone through. AZ and some other states have technically permitted the
practice for some time. And, even in states where there is no specific
legislation, the practice is commonly noted in some areas.


"technically in arizona? the right to bear arms is written into the state constitution so since aroun 1911 or so, there is no "technical" about it.

Most people are too wrapped up in their I phones to notice a bus driving down the sidewalk ket alone an open carrier

Me either, but until everyone or at least half the folks carry open, I wont, no need to be the first fugger shot in the back of the head.

Surely you don't buy it that BS of being shot first. Most likely no one will screw with someone they know are armed.

I would rather try to appear non threatening.

You're too big and strong for that approach

From a predatory standpoint, I walked into a store to see a gallute leaning over the counter with his OC hip stuck out behind him proudly displaying his 357 holstered revolver, were I robbing the place, yes, BOOM to the back of his head immediately followed by this is a robbery announcement.

Can't see drawing that kind of attention, also remember seeing a man in WMart last fall over in Arkansas, I stopped there to buy an out of state hunting license, followed the idiot out the doors and across the parking lot strutting like a banty rooster, arms out, boots polished to a high shine, chrome shades on looking around like he was part of an active spike squad.

I had to look up the Rolex site as I am not familiar with them other than the two friends I had who had them. Theirs looked like the Pearl Master and the one "donated" three of them before we lost touch in the 80's. It probably didn't help that he was approached by solicitors outside normal business hours either.

I was fortunate to go to a fairly prestigious high school but many tihere lived well above my means. It was fun at times, humbling, and even embarrassing at others.

The Submariner appears rather subdued compared to what I was thinking of. I can see it going unnoticed with the majority of the populace. No disrespect but to my unpracticed eye it doesn't appear to be greatly different than the Timex and Cassio watches I wear. Actually holding one would be a sure give away but mere appearances can be deceiving, especially if the one is understating itself.

I don't like to stand out in a crowd, too many times it seems to result in unwanted attention. Blend in and make yourself known when you want, if you want, is my desire.

Another reason I am against open carry is it gives those around me a degree of protection as there is an armed person in the vicinity. As most of these people will not reciprocate to others by arming themselves, then why should they receive my protection? I'll do what I can to help others but those who expect help when needed but refuse to help others in return can go to he!!.

I was in Las Vegas a couple of weeks ago for the SHOT show and decided to go to the Clark County Shooting Grounds to shoot a round of sporting clays. On the way, I stopped to get some gas and a car wash at a fairly crowded, large convenient-store-QT-type place. A new BMW pulled in behind me in at the gas pumps and a large black guy gets out and starts filling his car with gas. He's well groomed and nicely dressed and wearing what looks to be a Glock (19ish sized) in a Kydex holster. Nobody, myself included, cared…..I was aware, but neither alarmed nor frightened (had he been wearing saggy pants with his U-trou showing and a "hands up, can't breathe" shirt it would have been a whole different story)……while I agree that most people are oblivious, that's not the point…….nobody's going to try to disarm someone that looks like Mean Joe Greene who's OC; nor will they try to disarm any of the manly-type guys that frequent this blog (smiley, sarcastic emoticon inserted here).

However this gal:

….walking around with a 1911 with the hammer down, is a prime candidate for a non-governement sponsored "Fast and Furious" operation.

This guy:

….may be a deep-dark-ninja-of-death, but he profiles like Alfred E. Neuman wearing a "kick me" sign on his back.

My original point was not that you're going to alarm hoplophobes, or be the first one shot in a robbery (I don't care about the former and don't believe the latter)-----the point is that for a large portion of the population, OC makes you a walking supply chain for even a moderately skilled thug looking to arm themselves. Probably not an issue for anyone reading this, but probably is an issue for our wives/significant others/older parents, etc.
JMO-of course, I could be wrong.

I'm content to be one of the unnoticed. I've no objections to OC for those who desire to do so but I'm happy to be that bald, 50 something guy quietly going about his business, well armed but concealed.

String-bean there, in the red polo shirt, looks like any number of guys I've seen working the counter in a gun store. In which case, he's right in his natural environment with that big-ass 1911.

That's what I've been trying to say in all my incoherent rambling Mart.

I love when people open carry. It makes THEM the center of attention.

In a permissive or non-permissive enviroment it is sterile and grey all the way.

Yes, they are considering such a bill. I hope it passes. Not that I intend to open carry, but why have a mode of carry that gives cops the chance to arrest you?

I'm with Gunner; carrying open just says "shoot me first" to bad guys with whom you just happen to be in the Stop-n-Rob they have decided to rob that day.

If the open carry folks want to take one on the chin for the rest of us, more power to 'em.

My personal well-being is due in part to bad guys evaluating me and the crowd around me and figuring someone is packing and the risk isn't worth it. Toss in a number of open carry folks and the density must sure seem to take a jump.

For all that is Holy TRH, you are as dense as iron wood. If the cops want to arrest you, you will be arrested or shot, resisting arrest with deadly force. You've posted some real doozies over the years. This one has to be in the top three. Give that propeller on your tin-foil beanie a twirl and hope LE never comes after you.

This guy wasnt open carrying, but was not discreet in his concealed carry.


http://www.guns.com/2015/09/23/gun-stolen-from-cwp-holder-during-walmart-bathroom-assault/

I understand that open carry can deter crime by its mere presence but I prefer to have the advantage of surprise that concealed carry offers.

Also as I read through the answers here they are highly dependent on your demographics. If I was still bouncing around in Montana I probably would be far less concerned about open carry but while in Portland last weekend it would have caused more problems than it would have been worth.

The only time I run open carry is when I am hiking.

Are you capable of disagreeing without being an ass? The gun owning nation is split on this issue, and there are all kinds of opinions that fall somewhere in the middle. If you have an opinion, and disagree with another, simply make your argument. No need to lower the tone for the entire thread.

Chicago? Or North Murderapolis??

So if a bad guy thinks you might be carrying, you're safer. But if a bad guy knows you're carrying, you're not safer.

Nope, if a bad guy thinks I might me and sees that guy is for sure, we're all safer.

When enough people open carry it will be excepted and no associated concerns/problems

+1……location plays a big role…..I know that everyone's situation and experience is different ("you're unique…..just like everyone else"), but the people that I've seen open carrying in the city remind me of these Stolen Valor guys:


...I just can't buy the intimidation factor of open carry as almost all of the guys that I've seen appear to be wannabes trying to either be something that they're not or trying to make some kind of political point.

There is one exception that I'm aware though……..I don't how many of you know (remember?) who Ross Seyfried is, he's kind of faded from the shooting arena in past few years….he told me a story about driving from his ranch near Roggen in to Aurora (Colorado) to shoot an IPSC match……he normally carried on his ranch and had the habit of putting on his match gear and equipment at home prior to leaving for the match. (for the record, he wore a Sparks #1AT and carried a Pachmayr Combat Special). Prior to getting on the freeway, he had to traverse a stretch of rolling county highway. He was on that back road on his way to a match one day, when a car of Hispanics passed him with their windows down, cat calling, etc. at him as they passed. When he got to top of the next hill, they had stopped their car blocking the highway and were standing around the car waiting for him…….he came to a stop, opened the door and stepped out, fully regaled in his IPSC competition gear and said, "do you guys want to discuss Colorado driving laws?" They suddenly remembered a pressing engagement elsewhere and beat a hasty retreat. Apparently in his case, open carry was intimidating enough to work although one can't help but ponder the incredible bad Karma those latin fellows were experiencing by picking Ross to mess with.

I know that looks are deceiving, however, I've never seen anybody like Seyfried open carrying…..most look like Barney Fife.

i think a lot of this is dependent on situation. I open carry all the time in the desert or mountains, very common to see people doing that.
around populated areas i think it just makes me a particular target. and that's when it's concealed.
as far as the popo in arizona are concerned, they have to deal with people as being armed, in sight or otherewise, all the time. As you can carry concealed, open carry, or whatever, without any permit being required.
This comes as a rude shock sometimes to tourista's, to being in a restaurant in some small town like sierra vista, and seeing the iron on display.
When the law was changed a few years ago stating you didn't need a permit to carry concealed, predictions by some were a bloodbath was coming. HoHum, nada. Nothing.
I have been packing since around the age of ten, one way or another. Just never an issue even in those days of a youth, we were all packing openly as most kids went hunting often without adults present.

one thing that has changed however, years ago my trucks all had rifle racks in front of the rear window, convenient for hanging ropes, hats etc as well as firearms. Haven't had one in a truck in years, open invitation for someone to break into the vehicle.

I've carried almost daily for 48+ years and I just can not open carry. Even when hunting, unless the gun is in my hand it is put away somewhere depending on what I am wearing.

When staying at Mackay's place that you can't get any more "in the middle of nowhere", I still did not open carry. Around the cabin the same even thought there was only one neighbor within 5 miles and he wore his .41 Magnum open carry. Whenever we went to town or rode the bikes the gun was either under a vest or the riding jacket.

NH has been a OC state for over 25 years...few people Open Carried as few people even carried guns. Now there a lot more people carrying and some of the people "not from here" have called the police upon seeing a gun. There were a couple of incidents where the police response was such that Police Standards and Training had to send out a reminder that OC was legal and unless there was extenuating circumstances to leave them alone or end up in a possible lawsuit. CC takes a license in this state, carrying openly does not.

And as Farnum says...why bring attention to yourself....

Bob

For those who are arguing the point that open carry makes you a likely target: Please provide some source for your info. I'm truly interested.

I carry concealed in town as it draws no attention, but open carry when it seems of no issue. I'm not living in an area where it's taboo. Hardly a glance from anyone if you are wearing a gun and going about your business.

Everyone looks at the wannabees. Those who have issue with guns are mortified. Those who are gun proponents, disgusted these idiots make them look bad. I've seen a lot of young guys wanting to be "operators" in their tacticool gear acting brash hoping for notice. They're the issue in my eyes.

Granny packing a 1911 OWB? Likely she knows how to shoot it. It's the .38 in the bottom of a purse lady that'll be a victim.

Bear spray is better for most as they're not well practiced enough to function when your training is all that allows for proper action. Most don't rise to the occasion; most collapse to their most well versed training.

Do you live on a pirate ship?

Don't I wish.

The gun owning nation is split? Perhaps you can direct me to where you sourced that statement. I doubt, seriously doubt, that half of the people who own a gun or guns think about being arrested, and further, believe that carrying their firearm legally would end in an arrest.

Right there are two satchel a$$es who need to be doused with coleman lantern fuel and set ablaze.

If I ever manage to get back to Texas before I die, I'll open carry. It's the only way to comfortably carry a Glock 20.

What does that statement have to do with anything I said? Folks advancing open carry laws are doing so because open carry is currently illegal in their state. Seems self evident, but according to your statement, you were confused on that point.

Yes, the bolded red part of your post is confusing. What does it mean?

Oh, and please direct me to the source you used to state that the gun owning nation is split down the middle on an issue.

Which issue?

Have someone read it for you and explain it.

Same here for me, just not for quite as long. In town, at the cabin, hiking in the woods, bowhunting, gun hunting or whatever, I always carry concealed.

Typical non-answer when you post something that is worded poorly, and, you just pulled the "gun-owning nation is divided" out of your azz...unless you have a source.

Always just kinda figured a weapon hidden, was worth about twice what one was that folks knew about.

Yeah, the simple truism says the best gun in a gun fight is the one you have with you. I just rebel at the idea of carrying a .380. Carrying my Glock 20 concealed can be done, but it is uncomfortable, and that causes me to leave it at home sometimes.

The fact that many gun owners are having success in getting this sort of legislation passed, and that there are those among us (even here at the Fire) who oppose such legislation, demonstrates we are far from monolithic on this issue. I'm not seeing where your problem is with this assertion.

I don't know of anyone here who has ever opposed OC legislation, other than to oppose the notion that we need legislation to exercise the right to OC.

The arguments around OC are largely theoretical, much like....
Is junk carry a good idea?
Slow and heavy or light and fast?
Does FBI ballistic testing matter?
.30-06 or .270?
Should I deer hunt with a .233?

People disagree and argue about those things but I wouldn't call any of them, or arguments about OC, as "dividing the gun owning nation". Seems pretty melodramatic to me.

We, as a group, are indeed divided over this question. Look at the hostility it evokes here at the Fire. My mere statement that I supported a law in my state legalizing open carry got a hostile response, and this sort of reaction is commonplace on this issue. I've observed this for many years here, and we are a fairly representative microcosm of the gun enthusiast community in the US.

Drama queen much?

The hostility was not a result of your position so much as your inserting drama into an otherwise reasonable discussion.

I will give you my personal perspective. I can't cite you examples although we do see occasional links on the forums now that open carry is becoming more common. I don’t live my life correcting for something that happened to somebody else in the past. I try to stay ahead of the curve. We are all products of our environment. My orientation stems from growing up and spending a chunk of my adult life in a high crime city where any valuable commodity rates higher attention in the eyes of criminals. A gun is a high value commodity. It is a place where carjackings were high (even of off duty cops who generally don’t look like targets), dope dealers and gangs get in gunfights with each other, and, recently, people in restaurants, including high end places, have been subjected to takeover robberies where customers were proned out by a team of guys, searched, and relieved of valuables. A visible gun may deter some but it certainly won’t deter the hard core types who are the most dangerous. A visible gun on a good guy gives the initiative to the bad guy. The bad guy gets to make a choice of how to take him and maximize his advantage. My personal preference is to make my own decision when the gunfight starts so that I can take the initiative at the point that I perceive that I have the best chance of survival with the least chance of collateral damage. Others go the other way on that. They have their reasons and I respect them. Heck, in the takeover robbery situation, I would love for one of the other patrons to draw all the attention.

So, that's where I am coming from. I don't vary that just because I am in the woods or at the cabin. Changing things requires a decision that something is different about the cabin or the woods, such as that only good guys are in the woods or driving on the rural highways. I just can't get there in my mind.

Idaho has been OC since Lewis & Clark came through. I have yet to have to step over a body on the sidewalk.
I rarely see OC folks running around. I think CC is much more in vogue here.

Surprise, Gomer!! Another fooking train wreck of a thread.

Just because something is 'legal' doesn't mean it's a good idea.

The problem I have is you are drawing a conclusion, first, on what you read on the 'fire. You've not conducted a survey of the Campfire members to determine if we are divided. Second, the evidence you are using is anecdotal, and therefore you can not draw any conclusions from it that are valid. Third, even if you were to conduct a survey of Campfire members, you can not generalize the results from a survey of Campfire members to the rest of American gun owners. The results of your survey, if you used a valid instrument to conduct the survey, only apply to the population (24 Hour Campfire members) you surveyed. This is all statistics 101.

My humble take on the matter.

Pretty much anything that expands the practice of our 2A rights I see as a net positive.

The ability to have your weapon seen without brushing up against, if not outright breaking, the local firearm carry laws is an absolute positive. If you've been carrying under a jacket and get out to pump some gas with your jacket off it's nice to not have that be any issue legally.

I don't personally find "general" OC a particularly good idea for a number of reasons (many already discussed) but very much support the legal option to do so.

I was reacting to the insertion of drama, not initiating it.

My view exactly.

Actually - you're overlooking the obvious. I see some pretty tough looking dudes OC almost every day. They're usually in uniform though and they very often have gear (and hopefully training and practice) that impedes a gun grab. Pretty rare for someone to just up and grab their guns without already being in a fight.

I have run across a few non-uniformed OC guys here in Idaho recently though, and they all fit that Barney description. I find myself checking to see if they are being attentive to their surroundings and to see just how "grabbable" that gun is. Makes me a little nervous that said gun is almost always essentially up for grabs.

My personal take on it is that it's a bad idea for most of us when we are or will be in close proximity to people we don't know. I don't like having to watch everybody that closely to make sure I (or some other OC guy) am not about to supply a stolen gun to the mix. Yeah - I know that it can still happen with a hidden gun, but it's just not as likely...at least I'd like to think so.

In a more rural environment though, I have absolutely no problem with it. One time that I was quite certain that I was about to have to use my gun, I was carrying it openly. The subject of my concern had not noticed the gun at first, but when he did his furtive movements stopped and he and his buddies made a hasty exit. Reviewing the situation after the fact convinced me that in that particular situation a hidden gun would likely have been needfully deployed. Not sure the outcome would have been any different, but someone would at least have been closer to dying.

We all strive to keep our concealed weapon unnoticed, and the vast majority of the time are quite successful at it. But it should not be a matter of concern for us that a slip in our concealment system or other legitimate circumstances might lead to charges of brandishing simply because someone sees our gun. Removing restrictions on OC is always a good thing, IMO. Deliberately practicing it in an urban environment....not so much.

FreeMe,
You and I agree right down the line……my comments are/were related strictly to OC in an urban environment by non-LEO's. We have National Forests around here where a lot of snowmobiling and 4 wheeling take place on back trails and OC is pretty much SOP for a large % of the people and I don't doubt the intimidation factor when limited to isolated locations where it's just you and them and no witnesses. In the city however, I'm not sure that I buy the intimidation factor---certainly not as a primary benefit of OC.

My wife and I went to a buffet restaurant here in Laramie a couple of days ago. There was a guy in line directly in front of us that was probably in his 70's, not decrepit, but certainly long past being athletic. He was OC'ing a 1911 in a strong side holster while carrying a dinner plate with both hands. He didn't look at us as we got in line directly behind him; absolutely no sign on his part of any situational awareness. My 8 year old grandson could have disarmed him in less than 10 seconds. If his shooting skills match his mindset, he's a lawsuit waiting to happen. In the mean time, he's a potential gun donor and little more.

I'm delighted and in favor of laws legalizing OC……just still don't see the virtue of it in an urban setting for non-uniformed personnel. JMO.

Here's an example from right now. I can't refute the exact thing you said, but you're implying that nobody here is against open carry and that is still far from the case and was much more so let's say, two years ago. Right here on this forum two years ago, I seriously doubt you could have found 50% of posters on a given thread on this topic who would've supported it. "Ever opposed OC legislation"? You could probably thin that way down, but here and now there are a lot more folks supporting OC than there were previously.

TRH's comments about not getting arrested are very easy to discern too. All cops are not familiar with the law especially they are not all up-to-date on recent rulings thereof. As such, it is a definite possibility to get arrested for things you shouldn't be arrested for and the more we can prevent this, the better off we are. As some of our legal experts would agree, ALL firearms laws are infringement, it's how much we want to put up with that's the question. Lately, people are putting up with less and less.

So certainly, there is a split between gunowners and I seriously doubt if you could ask every gun owner in the US that OC would win out. The topic would fare much better on the 'fire and even better thinned down to this particular forum, but there are still those that oppose in spirit if not in practice. The LE opposition is self-evident, just look at all the YouTube videos by OC advocates.

Just to put a face on this idea.

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/local/...police-chief-ep-412648471-360158151.html

No I'm not.

TRH said that there are those here at the Fire who oppose Open Carry legislation.


To which I replied....




I also took exception to the dramatic notion that the gun owning nation is "divided on the issue". Of course we disagree on it, we disagree on a great number of things. But that doesn't mean that disagreement on that issue has to rise to the level of "dividing the gun owning nation".

I disagree with my wife on where to find the best Mexican food in town, and the best fried chicken. That doesn't mean that our home is "divided", it just means that we disagree.

Disagreement does not always equal division, and rightfully so. To say that it does is easily characterized as dramatic.

I wouldn't.

Wow!

Bluedreaux, I'm sorry but that's a good bit of parsing. Disagreement does usually equal division and it most certainly does in this case as I already illustrated.

Yeah, that's it. TRH is ahead of the curve and we can't see it because we hate him so much.

So I'll take off my hate-blinders and listen. Just post up the examples of people here opposing open carry legislation. On this issue tearing apart the gun community there must be examples aplenty.

Ethan, disagreement doesn't equal division. If some loony leftist came on the board and started stating that anyone who was not in Law Enforcement or the Military should not be allowed to own a gun, he would immediately be barraged by dozens of gun owners...many of them with disagreements between them regarding some aspect of owning and using a firearm. Take Stick as an extreme example. If you're not deer hunting with a Kimber Montana in .223, scoped with a 6X Super Sniper, then you're just an idiot and wasting your own time and money. Even he would side with other gun owners against the onslaught of people like hitlery clinton. I don't know the percentages or even all the issues, but I'd bet gun owners agree on more gun-related topics than on topics they disagree with one another about. At the end of the day, we're still gun owners and we have to remain ever vigilant to keep the loony left from pecking away at our 2nd Amendment right.

The linked internal affairs report is kind of funny.

If I said the Republican base is divided on the issue of abortion, would you conclude that the Republican base is "torn apart" over the issue. Division and being "torn apart" aren't equatable concepts. He's right. You're parsing in order to find disagreement.

The liberals are ahead in this game. Then, I was in junior high and kids brought shotguns on the bus and kept them in their lockers for trap practice after school. It was common to see someone walking down the street with a rifle or some kid with a .22 strapped to his bike. Now, some fat lady at Walmart catches a glimpse of what might be a gun and SWAT responds.

Open carry starts to reverse the incrementalism that got us from then to now. Open carry will irritate some folks, it will cause conflicts, and might even have some risk, but in the long haul hopefully minds and perceptions will be changed.

Where are the examples of people here at the Fire opposing open carry legislation?

Every time it's been discussed here there have been, often heated, arguments pro and con.

To open carry, or to legislation allowing open carry?

I don't recall anyone EVER taking the position that open carry should be illegal.

You haven't went back two years and looked at the issue back then. I'd say once you do that, I'll get you a bunch of examples of people opposing open carry...but I won't 'cause I won't. I don't give enough of a [bleep].

I like having the choice to open carry but do not do so. I have yet to see someone open carry using a level 3 retention holster. Most are in a nylon piece of crap often dangling on a clip meant for IWB.

Those that feel open carry makes them safer ignore the savagery of predators and the number of Police officers killed on duty in uniform. I see no one here advocating for laws prohibiting open carry. Having the choice is obviously best.


mike r

I don't remember anybody doing that either, but like Ethan, I don't give enough of a [bleep] to go back two years looking for old posts and doing Hawkeye's work for him.

I'm an old working cop and open carry can be a pain in the ass. People who should know better will call 911 and yell 'man with a gun' and you are not gonna duck that call.

You go, you are extra careful until you know what you're dealing with and you stay careful throughout. There is no way to determine if Mr. Open Carry is legit, a felon or whatever unless you run them. Most people will comply with this but some will not. Often these contacts are video recorded by folks with cellphones, etc. I do not let that affect my handling of the call.

You might think I am against open carry legislation. I am not. I have supported pro 2A legislation at all levels since I was old enough to vote. I have not wavered from this position, occasionally drawing the ire of coworkers and and administrators. Tough Shizzt. If freedom is a little uncomfortable, I'd rather have the freedom than the pretense of comfort.

I do not recommend open carry, because it violates a primary rule of survival in the concrete jungle- never draw unnecessary attention to yourself.

Last summer I was easing along in the local Walmart parking lot looking for a parking spot and noticed a young dude walking along with a Glock of some sort locked in his Blackhawk Serpa holster open carrying. And about 20' behind him was a guy trailing along with a video camera. Trolling for trouble so they can be YouTube all stars.

i like open carry guys. while the bad guy is busy shooting them, i can get the hell out of dodge.

Yeah, what ever you do, don't engage the perps. Real men always run away from gunfire.

To punctuate what Sarge has said, open carry is akin to being a uniformed LEO, when it comes to visibility.

You would have to be sleeping under a rock for the last year not to have seen the videos of the uniformed LEO's being targeted and murdered by some POS, simply by virtue of their uniform.

I'd rather catch the other ahole by surprise. JMHO.

A few years back two gun clerks were closing up shop for the night in Minneapolis. They both liked open carry. Some pukes came in and killed them both and stole 100 handguns.
I think body armor should be worn if you are going to put a target on your back. Is body armor legal for civilians?

Today I noticed a guy in a Taco Bell in Arkansas carrying a Glock 34 in a Kydex holster. No one even looked twice at him besides me. I was trying to determine if I could get that gun out of his holster before he was aware it was gone. It was purely a mental exercise. I believe that if you decide to open carry you get a GOOD holster meant for Police Officers, and then get some weapon retention training. How do you get that kind of training? I don't know. I would hope some of the legitimate shooting schools like Thunder Ranch will train you not only to draw and fire, but the best ways to make sure no one else gets your gun. I said it before and I'll say it again; open carry tells the bad guys to shoot YOU first. I carry concealed for that very reason.