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Originally Posted by EdM
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Phil,

Is the difference between "I would be happiest with someone using any of the Noslers" and your present .375 favorite 270 TSX due to the difference between somebody you're guiding, and you backing up?


My guide was a more than an definite yes for the TSX or TBBC and "ho hum" with the Partition. This out of a 375 H&H. Just another 30 year sample I suppose.


I've caught the 300 gr partition in a blacktail before. Shot in the brisket, bullet found in a ham near the a-hole. Shot a single brown bear (backing up a buddy) and it will penetrate on a broadside thru the lungs, but I dunno about heavy raking shots or shoulder bone. 270 TSX is what I'd go with.

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Originally Posted by MuskegMan
Originally Posted by EdM
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Phil,

Is the difference between "I would be happiest with someone using any of the Noslers" and your present .375 favorite 270 TSX due to the difference between somebody you're guiding, and you backing up?


My guide was a more than an definite yes for the TSX or TBBC and "ho hum" with the Partition. This out of a 375 H&H. Just another 30 year sample I suppose.


I've caught the 300 gr partition in a blacktail before. Shot in the brisket, bullet found in a ham near the a-hole. Shot a single brown bear (backing up a buddy) and it will penetrate on a broadside thru the lungs, but I dunno about heavy raking shots or shoulder bone. 270 TSX is what I'd go with.


Exactly




I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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MuskegMan,

The relative lack of penetration from .375 300-grain Partitions is one reason I asked Phil the question. We even discussed it the first time we met, on a visit from Phil and Rocky here in Montana several years ago. I'd retrieved two from a bull bison, one on a somewhat angling shot but the other from a broadside shot, and though bison do have pretty thick hide I'd expected the broadside to exit.

The bullets looked perfect and retained 87% and 88% of their weight, but other 300-grain .375's stopped in even small game--and not on angling and endwise shots. One animal was a mature but not huge-bodied kudu bull shot at about 100 yards, quartering away. The bullet entered the left ribs and stopped in the far shoulder, after a little over two feet of penetration. The other hit a facing warthog in the head and didn't exit the skull!

This lack of penetration from the 300-grain .375 has always seemed odd to me, as both the 286 9.3mm and 400 .416 Partitions have always penetrated plenty. Have only recovered either on angling shots through at least one shoulder on animals weighing 600+ pounds, or from broadside shoulder shots on BIG animals weighing over 1000 pounds.

Nosler placed the partition in all three bullets far enough forward enough to retain at least 75% of their weight, even if the front core disappears. Yet the .375 just doesn't seem to penetrate as well as the other two. Which seems especially odd compared to the 286 9.3, because it's so similar in weight and diameter.


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Who takes you hunting, Nosler or Barnes? To doubt a Barnes is folishness.


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I know guys that killed 9 foot Brn bears on Kodak using regular old hornady interlocks. Killing a bear isn't [bleep] rocket science put the bullet where it's supposed to go and you will have no issues.. Where I moose hunt in unit 13 chances of seeing Brn Bears pretty good all I have regular old 200gr Speer hot cor out of my 325 WSM loaded up. But I have buds that used 300gr tsx out of 375 to kill their Kodak bears. I used 400gr tsx out of my rigby to kill mine..

Last edited by 79S; 02/06/16.

Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.

Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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I've had full raking penetration more often than not on brown bears with the 300gr Nosler. On one pretty big boar it broke the pelvis, ranged through and punched out the chest from about 20 yards out with muzzle velocity of 2550.

I once caught a 286gr 9.3mm after it entered the lower jaw, went down the neck, and diagonally across the chest. It was found in the fat while fleshing the hide, perfectly expanded. That was about 75 yards started at 2400.

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Ed,

Where did I state any doubt of Barnes?

My wife and I have killed over 100 big game animals with Barnes X's, starting with the originals, then the TSX's, and now the TTSX's. In fact, my wife was the first person to provide an elk field report to Connie Brooks from a .270 TSX, and also killed a cow bison with one double lung shot with the 130 .270 TSX. And I was the guy who suggested to Weatherby that they might consider loading the 100 TSX in .257 Weatherby factory loads, after using it for a couple of years. I've used TSX's from Alaska to Africa, and many places in between, and we take big game with them every year.

My question to Phil was about his two posts on this thread. The first one stated: "All of those will work but I would be happiest with someone using any of the Noslers."

His second post stated: "The 260 Accubonds have proven to be very accurate and tough bullets and i would not hesitate to use them on big bears. But my current favorite in the 375 is the 270 Barnes TSX. It opens well, holds together 100% and penetrates as well as the Noslers."

So I asked him why his current favorite is the 270 TSX, partly because of some of our previous conversations. I didn't say ANYTHING about doubting Barnes TSX's.


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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
MuskegMan,

The relative lack of penetration from .375 300-grain Partitions is one reason I asked Phil the question. We even discussed it the first time we met, on a visit from Phil and Rocky here in Montana several years ago. I'd retrieved two from a bull bison, one on a somewhat angling shot but the other from a broadside shot, and though bison do have pretty thick hide I'd expected the broadside to exit.

The bullets looked perfect and retained 87% and 88% of their weight, but other 300-grain .375's stopped in even small game--and not on angling and endwise shots. One animal was a mature but not huge-bodied kudu bull shot at about 100 yards, quartering away. The bullet entered the left ribs and stopped in the far shoulder, after a little over two feet of penetration. The other hit a facing warthog in the head and didn't exit the skull!

This lack of penetration from the 300-grain .375 has always seemed odd to me, as both the 286 9.3mm and 400 .416 Partitions have always penetrated plenty. Have only recovered either on angling shots through at least one shoulder on animals weighing 600+ pounds, or from broadside shoulder shots on BIG animals weighing over 1000 pounds.

Nosler placed the partition in all three bullets far enough forward enough to retain at least 75% of their weight, even if the front core disappears. Yet the .375 just doesn't seem to penetrate as well as the other two. Which seems especially odd compared to the 286 9.3, because it's so similar in weight and diameter.


I haven't been impressed with either the 260 nor the 300 grain Partitions out of a .375 H&H. They're killers for sure, but don't penetrate like partitions from other calibers have for me. Kind of weird. Maybe it is a coincidence or maybe there's a threshold between the expansion characteristics and retained weight averages of the .375 partitions at normal speeds that limit it's average penetration...

I've seen the 260 especially be stopped by broadside shots on deer sized critters.



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Come to think of it, I don't think more than just a couple animals have taken a single step after being chest shot by either of the .375 Partitions from my H&H, to include a few elk, deer, antelope and a wolf.

The lack of penetration was a surprise, but the quickness that they kill was impressive. One antelope even took a bad shot on my part, right through the guts. She instantly fell over and never moved. I can't remember if than one exited or not...

Regardless, I have never killed brown bear, let alone with a .375 H&H so doubting me would just be dumb.



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Guy,
You had good luck with the 260gr. Accubonds out of your 375 H&H with black bear. If load shoots good in your #1, I would use it. Have you tried the 300gr. Accubonds yet?


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[Linked Image]

Shoulder to shoulder, hide to hide, big fall (average) moose; 207 grains remain after burning 70 grains of RL15 in an H&H from around 25 yards; 300 Partition.


[Linked Image]

Shoulder to shoulder, hide to hide, young adult moose; fired from 375-350 Rem Mag at 150 yards; 235 TSX.

I have driven several lesser bullets through more than a couple bears.

Last edited by Klikitarik; 02/07/16.

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Experience with Partitions on brown bear is hard and expensive to come by frown

So I don't have much,but here's my thoughts FWIW.

I have used the old screw machine 270 gr on my first bear and of two hits, one was recovered and one sailed on through the lungs.The recovered bullet was sort of caved in at the base,and peeled back to the Partition.

I watched a companion kill one with a 375 and 300 gr NPT and both shots exited;also another that was just flattened with the 180 NPT from a 300 Weatherby.

Friends from back here who have successfully killed Alaskan browns have variously used: 270 gr NPT-375H&H,300 gr 375H&H ,7mm 175 NPT,275 BBC from 375 H&H,270 gr-375 WW Power Point. One intrepid sort used the 270 Winchester and 160 NPT.

Another pal use a 416 Rigby and a heavy Barnes X (I want to say 400 gr). He hit his bear a bit on the bias and it was alive an hour later and still very dangerous.The bullet broke an onside shoulder but was not angled to reach the plumbing.

The bear killed with the 270 died a whole bunch quicker.Great bullets, regardless their virtues, don't guarantee us anything

All these guys came home without being eaten or mauled.

From a rooky's perspective, the bottom line is there are far more great bear bullets today than there used to be, but the bottom line is still the same....work in close, place the first shot with surgical precision, and don't screw it up. I wouldn't ever hesitate to use a Nosler Partition under those circumstances....or a Barnes, or a Swift, or NF or BBC. I know if i do my job they are all going to work. smile

Last edited by BobinNH; 02/07/16.



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In .375 a Barnes 270 or a Swift A Frame(just like a Partition but doesn't lose Bullet weight) also North Fork.

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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Phil,

Is the difference between "I would be happiest with someone using any of the Noslers" and your present .375 favorite 270 TSX due to the difference between somebody you're guiding, and you backing up?



John, as you know my clients have killed well over a hundred big bears and I have had to assist on a number of them. Shot placement is always primary but I rank penetration second, followed by expansion and you know the new Nosler bullets have had the partition moved forward and now penetrate pretty close to the TSX bullets.
I have witnessed bears that died quickly with hits from virtually all the bullets, including 300 gr Sierra BTs but my personal favorite, and the one that I have seen give the most consistent and quick results, is the 270 gr TSX.


Phil Shoemaker
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Originally Posted by 458Win
... but my personal favorite, and the one that I have seen give the most consistent and quick results, is the 270 gr TSX.

Good to know, although I don't think that I have enough gold left in the bank or gas left in the tank to ever made it up to Alaska again. smile


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Thanks, Phil, that's what I wanted to know.

I haven't used the 270 TSX as much in the .375 as some other bullets, mostly because it didn't exist when I bought my first .375, but have seen it do very good work in Africa.


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John, And I did say the 270 gr TSX is my personal favorite in the 375, it is also Taj and Tia's.
In the 30 calibers my favorite is the 200 gr Partitions and in my 458 I still have absolute faith in the old 500 gr Hornady RN and the 450 A-Frame.

But there are so many really fantastic bullets out there. So long as you use discretion it is hard to find a bad one.

And as you and I have always claimed, choosing a Nosler Partition is seldom a bad choice.


[Linked Image]

Last edited by 458Win; 02/08/16. Reason: photo added

Phil Shoemaker
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www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

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Great topic. Love hearing about bears and big bullets..

Bob, what was the shot angle/range and such for the 250 BBC you caught on your bear? That had to wreck a bunch of stuff before it came to rest.

Guy, how many jugs have the 300 grain PT made before stopping in your tests?


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Scotty it was about 150-175 yards. He was feeding on a narrow beach and I had come in off a slimy rock pile. I waited until he was broadside.

There was a lot of damage,and substantial exits. I aimed to break bones first shot and guess I did. He spun and I aimed the second same place,opposite side. It looked like he wanted to go but seemed anchored...he started roaring.

3rd through lungs and that exited with a lot of blood thrown on the beach.

He collapsed in the front end and pushed with hind legs but could not go anywhere and died. He was busted up pretty good. They are tough animals and don't give up easy.

2 of 3 shots exited. I recovered what I think was the first bullet.




The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Originally Posted by 458Win
Shot placement is always primary but I rank penetration second, followed by expansion ....



I think, with bears especially, this often gets turned around somehow. I don't know just why it happens - my depth of experience is certainly shallow when it comes to bears- but I know just enough to know that they aren't invincible when they are shot well, but that they can be nearly the opposite when they aren't. And good bullets placed poorly often get blamed.


Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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