Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics What Can I get That Is 44mm or less and FFP?

My ideal scope would be FFP, 44mm obj or less, 30mm tube, mil-dot, and 14x. So the reticle part is fairly easy with target knobs. I really don't want a scope that weighs 30oz and I don't want a 50mm+ obj on a hunting rifle. After all my searching, it seems like this is niche that hasn't been filled by the manufacturers unless I'm missing something.

I can see that Leupold I can get a Mark IV, 3.5-10x that meets this criteria, but I'd rather have a little extra power. Their 4.5-14x doesn't appear to be a ffp. I don't know if you can go through their custom shop for this??

Night force from what I can discern from their website are bigger and heavier than I want.

Zeiss and Swaro, same issues, too much objective.

G7, I don't know what these folks do so maybe someone can explain Do they take a NF and improve it, and if so, any reviews?

So help me find what I'm looking for. At least 10x, prefer a little more, 30mm, 44mm obj max, 40 or 32 if I had to, target knobs and mil dots/similar so I can learn my load and be able to range anywhere I hunt vs using custom range knobs, and FFP.

Oh, one more requirement, that it tracks consistently!!!! With all the discussion on this I'm a little gunshy on Leupold.

Thank you

Swfa scopes. A little heavy but rock solid and meet your requirements. You might look at the mil quad reticle. They are awesome.

Bushnell LRHS checks a lot of your boxes

I have 2 and wish I had a couple more

I just got a LRHS and I like it a lot.

Bushnell LRHS and SWFA SS. I have both and think highly of both. The LRHS wins for glass quality and design features but both are rock solid reliable, track well, and return to zero well.

John

Yup

Prewar70: The Leupold 4.5x14x40mm A/O scopes that I have on three different Hunting/Varminting Rifles have served me VERY well and FLAWLESSLY for twenty years or so now.
I highly recommend you give one a try.
I have NO hesitancy what so ever in buying, using or recommending Leupold scopes.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

SCHMIDT & BENDER
KLASSIK
3-12x42
FIRST FOCAL PLANE
WITH P3 MIL DOT
RETICLE
Weighs 20oz and has 3.7" eye relief
I'm thinking about one of these with the illuminated mil dot reticle.

Weaver has some that fit that criteria. The one I have has worker well. Today I'd probably go with SWFA for the reputation and lower cost.

S&B 4-16x42 PM II/LP with P3L.

I have a Bushnell LRS 3-12X44 ffp with an illuminated mil-dot. (Not the newer LRHS).

It tracks great and I like it. I wanted the illuminated reticle for the last few minutes of shooting time with my bad eyes.

It weighs 24 ounces. I've read the LRHS is better, but this is less $ and has the illumination I wanted.

fwiw,
The above has been my favorite PMII for years(short the P3 reticle). Put a Klein in it and keep your elevation turret to a Single Turn and you are golden. It was built for the quiet professionals of Army Special Forces if that tells you anything...

I'd actually like to see if I could get a limited number made with the Klein Reticle as the Gen 2 has not been available for years. Though the Gen 2 XL has... A step back in this specific scope...imho

It is still my favorite PMII, however, the 5-20x50 PMII Ultra Short DT Locking with the H59 illuminated is impressing me on short suppressed rifles behind Insight Thermal Units. Coyotes have had a tough winter... Scope is expensive but short and all business. I think when my 60 day T&E is up on this one a check will go back to Schmidt... Dunno on the 5-25x56 setup similarly. They are looking for a locking turret replacement.

Regards, Matt Garrett
757-581-6270

Some good choices here that I hadn't considered. Out of the list below, and considering we all work hard for our money, what's the best choice or best value?

~S&B Klassik 3-12x42
~S&B PMII 4-16x42
~Leupold Mark 4 ER/T 6.5-20x50 M5A2 (outside my obj mm parameters but I'm intrigued)
~Bushnell LRHS 3-12x42

fwiw & imho,
This is were you are going to have to put in a little effort and not depend on others to assign a "value" for you. What you have asked is largely an impossible question that most of us have answered for ourselves. I will say the best choice will likely wind up being the best value, however, it rarely ever winds up being the cheapest...

Regards, Matt.

Matt you are right on, it was a loaded question there at the end. I know I couldn't go wrong with the S&B PMII but wow, a lot of money. Bushnell has never been on my radar, honestly, I've always had the opinion they were a low end scope. They do sell some cheap stuff but I'm going to have to look through the LRHS to decide. I've always thought of Leupold as the gold standard in scopes. I've never been a guy that twists a lot of elevation dials (hoping to change that), but all of the negative discussion on Leupold's reliability has me leery. The particular scope I mentioned though seems to buck the negative trend from what I can find but it looks like a lot of scope for a hunting rifle. Without looking through any of them and on paper only, the Klassik seems like a reasonable good choice for the size I was looking for, as well as quality. I doubt there's a store I can go to and line up all 4 to look at but I might get close with a few. I've got a list to work from now.

Matt has been selling me scopes for a decade. His expert recommendations and appraisals of optics have always been spot on.

I liked the 4.5-18 LRHS enough to order another one. I looked at other optics forums and they look like a solid long term performer. I bought a second based on the glass quality and the general feel of quality. I will know 6 months from now after a half season of silhouette shooting. They seem to be 1400 bucks everywhere, so they are not inexpensive, and the weight is substantial. I doubt I could get a rig to 8.5 pounds for the hunter rifle class, but it easily made the 10 pound 2 ounce category as a standard rifle. I don't have any experience with the 3-12 version.

prewar70,
I would respond with a few bullet points:

1. Bushnell is making some competitive optics that really outpace their name and former reputation. Granted they still market junk afaik under the same name. Whether or not you want to invest that much money into one is an open question. That said anything George Gardner/GA Precision is advocating is going to be competitive. Just pay attention which models he is using...

2. Leopold has made a good scope through the years. They were my first scopes and when Dick Thomas at Premier was alive he was a great boon to quality. NO discussion of their quality of performance on this board will remain sane and/or civil past the first or second post. Know that going in... Far better off making an educated guess or ask a reasonably educated poster their opinion via a private mail.

3. I've not had any personal experience with the Klassiks. That said I don't know how much elevation knob twiddling these scopes are designed to take. Schmidt Benders in general have modest elevation and windage travel. Hence the reason the PMII series went to a 34mm main tube. Granted there are exceptions like the 10x42 PM and the old 6x42 PM(great scope). I just looked at the German Schmidt website and they are not listing a Mil-Dot nor do they list Elevation travel which is a bad thing if you are considering twisting the elevation dial. I remember my first Schmidt Bender was a 4-16x50 Varmint with the 30mm tube, about 1997 or so, and it had a TOTAL elevation travel of 11 MOA or essentially a little over 11 inches a 100 yards. I put it on an early 20 MOA Rail from DD Ross and it did not have enough travel to obtain a 100 yard zero. The PMIIs are a world away... Granted the Precision Hunters DO have more elevation travel. That said a lot of hunting Schmidt Bender's will have a Posicon under the cap that will tell exactly where you are in the erector prisms travel. Different mindset...

4. The 4-16x42 PMII is an entirely different breed of animal. That said it is an older model and I can likely find you one with a P-3, or we can order a few if we can get enough guys together, to order them with Klein Reticles(Very similar to a Gen 2). If I could have only one rifle scope there is no question this would be it...fwiw.

Btw, We have a Seeing is believing program where you buy the scope and keep it for a reasonable time period, but don't mount it, and you can return it if you don't like it. You should really go through Doug at Cameraland as he supports this board, however, I would be happy to help you with selection or in any other way I can...

5. I completely forgot Nightforce. One of the toughest scopes on the market. I have no experience with their SHV line... That said for a tight budget I would give them a hard look. I actually have more Nightforce NXS scopes in my safe than I do Schmidt Bender...fwiw & imho

Matt Garrett
757-581-6270

Ralph,
You are far too kind as usual. Take care my friend...

Regards, Matt.

What Matt said..
The two scopes mentioned here are very different.
I have used the klassiks for decades and have had a PMII of one model or another for almost as long.
Kind of depends on what your planning on doing with it.
And what you need for power..how far your planning on shooting...
Klassiks have limited elevation travel.
PMIIs have plenty
Typically the PMIIs are large heavy scopes.But there are some smaller ones now.
A S&B Klassik 3-12x42 with a p3 or a TDS reticle would handle most things a man would care to shoot at with a carry gun.
The S&B PMII 4-16x42 is kinda a load.But will do it all, if need be.
If money is no object I would look hard at this thing.
1.5-8x42 Stratos.
http://www.schmidtundbender.de/en/products/hunting/15-8x42-stratos.html
Not sure about elevation travel on it.
dave