Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors 99F Frustration

Hello, I joined this forum because I believe it most knowledgeable and can probably give me the best advice.

A few years ago I had a 99F in 300 caliber mounting an early Redfield 2-7 variable. With the right load (I reload for all my centerfires) and on a good day it would print into an inch for 3 shots at 100 yards. It also had an annoying habit of drastically changing its' zero so I sold it.

Two years ago I bought another 99F, also in 300 Savage. For a 50+ year old rifle it appeared to us to be unfired and you had to look close to see only one tiny scratch towards the end of the barrel. ... It has a tang safety, brass rotor, counter, metal butt plate and very slender barrel and fore end.

I mounted a VXII 1-4X20 in Weaver rings and like the earlier one it is a good shooting rifle but also inherited the wandering zero problem.

I will sight it in and then the next time I shoot it, which may be a month or two later, it will print 8 inches high and 3 inches right or something similar. My other wood stocked rifles will change sometimes but never this drastic...Strange but this seems to be the identical pattern of the old rifle!

Since I do a lot of hiking and hill climbing the Pa woods I mounted swivel studs but was afraid of cracking that slim fore end so mounted a fore end screw that doubles as a sling stud.... My old 99F had the stud mounted directly to the wood. I don't over torque this screw just keep it snug and it serves it's purpose well.

I suspect the significant changes in humidity we get here in Pa, as the seasons change, as the main the factor in this shifting POI but don't know how I can fix it or alleviate the problem.

Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated and Thanks to all.

Are you cleaning the bore between shooting sessions? And/ or removing either part of the stock when cleaning the rifle? I have a 99F in .308 that will group 3/4 to 1and1/4 when fouled, but will shift point of impact 4 to 6 inches with after cleaning. Have to leave it dirty if hunting with it. Visible pitting in the bore. Seriously considering getting it rebored to .358.

My 250 will throw a flyer out of a clean barrel. I only clean it once or twice a year. It definitely shoots better out of a slightly dirty barrel. I'm in MD, similar weather, Joe.

Could try a rubber O ring around the forearm stud to give you just a tad bit of spacing between the forearm wood and barrel. Also try shooting it with the forearm off and the receiver resting on the shooting bag and see how that affects the POI.

I do clean the bore, almost always after shooting, I know some guys who NEVER de-copper or ever wipe their rifle's bores with anything.... I'll try leaving it fouled.

I thought about an O-Ring and I think it might provide a damper.

Thanks, again

If you haven't already seen it, look at the piece about a forearm washer in the Misc Good Info thread at the beginning of this forum.

Quote( Since I do a lot of hiking and hill climbing the Pa woods I mounted swivel studs but was afraid of cracking that slim fore end so mounted a fore end screw that doubles as a sling stud.... My old 99F had the stud mounted directly to the wood. I don't over torque this screw just keep it snug and it serves it's purpose well.)Quote

Are you sure the swivel screw stud is not changing the forearm tension? I had a newer 99 A in 250 Savage that Forearm screw stud messed with my zero and accuracy.

Test it without Forearm as was mentioned earlier!

Varying Forearm or FA pressure up or at the back will mess with zero and accuracy.

I always suspected the forearm screw but the old 99F had the stud attached to the forearm and not a screw/stud and had the same POI problem.

I noticed that the stud is looser as the weather becomes drier.As I said, I don't cinch it down real tight as I am afraid of cracking that slender piece of wood.

An analogy would be this; I have a tomahawk with a steel head and a hickory handle. In the summer the head is tight as a drum but in the winter it's so loose you can wiggle it up and down. I'm sure you've seen similar.

I always seal the inside of wooden stocks with True Oil or LinSpeed but probably doesn't help much since the outside has the original finish.

If I test it w/o the fore arm I'm fairly certain it would hold zero but then what? I would have narrowed the problem down but what to do about it?

The truth of the matter is you can't truly seal a piece of wood from moisture fenestration. Least effective are "oil finishes", most effective is varnish or epoxy but even they aren't 100% fool proof (but close). Wood is dynamic, and will move to one degree or another with climate changes no matter what you do to stop it. How the stock is cut- quartersawn or flat sawn- will figure in to a large degree how much it will move over its life too. I betcha that wood movement is effecting the tension on your fore arm attaching screw whether you want it to or not, especially since that screw is also doing double duty as a sling anchor.

The benefit to shooting it with the fore end removed is that you are totally removing the wood from the equation- giving you a base line for future testing. Rest it on the receiver, or if on the barrel make doubly-damned sure it's resting on the exact same spot for each shot. The trouble inherent in all of our bench shooting is that we are humans and not machine rests.

Have you investigated thoroughly exactly where the wood is touching steel, ie: with transfer agent? Could be it's bearing hard on one side and not so much on the other which will compound any errors caused by wood movement. Is it bearing real tight back against the receiver? There should be a RCH of clearance there- not so much that a gap is visible but not actually touching either. (That's a protocol common to all two-piece rifle stocks, especially single shots and, I suspect, Savage 99's too.)

If after addressing each issue one at a time, followed by re-testing at the range at every step along the way (elsewise how will you know what it was that worked), and are firm in the knowledge that technique is having zero effect on your results, then try the O-ring trick because what else do you have to lose?

Personally, I never rely on/expect a wood stocked rifle to hold its zero come what may during seasonal cycles.

The forend wood should not be touching the receiver in the back either. You can sand a little space in there on the inside of the forend so that it does not touch the receiver when screwed back together.

If you float the forend off the barrel using an O-ring, then float it away from the receiver by sanding a little off the inside, then the wood won't be touching anything. It should be more consistent then.

Really, there is a very simple solution to this.

Buy an EG.

Great advice. Yep, I notice now that the wood that enters into the receiver is real tight. That won't be difficult to relieve.

I thought about bicycle inter tube cut to fit the fore arm full length. It's thin enough and can experiment with different lengths etc..... But there still might be uneven pressure so the use of a transfer agent first is probably a good idea.

Calhoun, The F model has always appealed to me because of it's compact size and light weight. If I ever get another 99 I would probably try for an EG though.

Thanks again. You guys have really narrowed down and simplified the trouble shooting.

It's easy for us. All we have to do is sit at the keyboard and pontificate. The real work is up to you!

Stick with the F.....don't listen to Calhoun.....

I have no trouble with it out to 225 yards using 180 grain silvertip factory loads.



Although an EG does work quite well...

It amazes me that those new Savages (and yes I still consider 50's-vintage guns to be new) kill as well as they do, considering they haven't really been broken in yet. Could be the dead eyes and cool demeanor of their users though...

Not a 99 guy. But why not glass the forearm and use a barrel band swivel? --- Mel

Because the goal is to minimize contact in the fore arm. "Glass" won't stiffen it enough to counteract wood movement either. (Actual fiberglass hasn't been used for many decades. What we call "glass bedding" is nothing more nor less than epoxy, usually with colloidal silica or metallic stiffeners added.)

One thing I discovered with rifles sporting barrel band swivels is that one needs to sight in with the sling hanging in place like it would be in the field as POI can shift a bit from when it was sighted in sans sling. That or leave the sling off when hunting and resort to its use when both hands are needed to drag a deer carcass (or your own carcass) out of the woods.

Could be.....or just dumb luck.

The most accurate 99 I own is a f. Serial number 900000 series. How can you be so sure the scope ain't suffering holding a zero?

just get rid of it a try another one... piece of crap
send it to me I'll deal with ..

plab

It's happened on 2 different scopes. Not impossible they both had problems, but with the 2nd being a modern Leupold I doubt it.

I thought if it wasn't a night force tactical 6x75 x 50 you needed to throw em away! Seriously Leopold will check scopes for free. When I buy used ones I have em sent there first ,then to me, I honestly can say most were in need of erector care or replacement. I also have been on that learning curve about mounts getting loose.

But seeing as the weapon will zero and hold a zero short term.....likely temperature change warpage kind of deal. However I have noticed the zero will change especially with the leupold single erector system scopes. I also have seen temperature change make a mess out of a zero.

And y'all wonder why I'm an iron sight guy.

Funny you should mention scopes but thats always my first suspect when something don't seem right. Either the scope, mounts, or ME mounting it

I got a good deal on a used M8 4X. The scope did not have a scratch on it and the optics looked good and since the deal was good I decided to send it back to leupold for a reticle change for $65.

It had a tapered crosswire originally and I thought that a #4 would show up better in the woods.

About a week after I mailed it in I am at a football game and get a call from leupold. I had a hard time hearing the lady because of the crowd noise. She said something like there was water in the scope and I figured she meant the scope was no longer waterproof.

To my surprise she said they were going to send me a brand new FXII 4X33 with the reticle change included! Thats pretty sweet service considering it was a 1960s built scope and me not the original owner!

Anyways I mounted the new scope on an old Marlin 336 (originally intended to mount the M8) and couldn't hardly stay within 20 inches at 100 yards.

I thought of returning it but decided to mount it on a different rifle and it worked perfectly on that rifle.... So I discovered I mounted it too tight on the Marlin with the rings clamping on some internals.... Just doing it right on the other rifle fixed the scope! So now it's back on the Marlin.

To make a longer story short I know it ain't the scope. Thanks for the advice.

Yeah. I am starting to love them iron sights! I got a 300 e from loggah. It has a custom front blade. I got a marbles peep that nestles underneath the scope like a John mules nose under a mares whatzit. Did a double tap one inch left of the pink cross....on the tape! *(100 yards ) The scope quick releases....10 power minox za 5. I can't believe how much I wiggle! The peep and blade had me felling rock solid! Sent fireball a photo of the rig.

The older leupolds have a dimple in the tube near the end where the bullet flies out. Don't clamp over the dimple. Most trouble I have is getting them to settle in. Once the rig been pounder a while the erector system settles into where true center is and she will hold that. I do not think there is anything more sound of decision in the USA than to use leupolds as your scope or hunting optic provider. I WUV THEM!