My examples showed that the fellow who practices under harder circumstances, is the one that will normally do better on easier opportunities.
And yes you can learn fundamentals on a variety of games. Trap becomes more relevant to Birds if you place yourself 30 yards to the right or left of the house.Place the trap on wobble and it gets better. You don't know the angle or height that will come out. They are more extreme than behind the house and you have to react quicker. We have one range were the ground drops of hard in front of the house. Get down there with your back to the trap and have them coming high from behind and you don't see the target until it is in you upper peripheral. Turn around and you have a variety of high incomers. Presentations you may encounter in the field, but not standing on a peg. Much more difficult. Thus you learn something new and expand your experiences.
Fundamentals are a given and it is best to have that foundation on the easy targets first. As previously stated it is progressive improvement.
>>"My examples showed that the fellow who practices under harder circumstances, is the one that will normally do better on easier opportunities."<<
With all due respect, your example stated something, it didn't prove or show anything. It's no more valid than my belief that the guy who practices at shooting clay targets at normal game ranges is just as likely to hit game at those ranges than someone who can also hit at longer ranges. It's just a differing opinion.
Would Shaq have been better served to have practiced more from the 3 pt line or the foul line to improve his free throw %?
I guess if shooting clays at 70 yards makes you more likely to hit birds at 30 yds then that's what you need to do. I was shooting skeet before I ever went hunting. I always shot well on game birds. I killed the first bird on the wing I ever shot at. I don't know if I'm a natural, I just learned to shoot a shotgun on the skeet range and had good teachers. It did come easy for me. I was successfully competing at NSSA matches when I was 16. Good fundamentals will take you a long way. Before this past April, I hadn't shot a round of skeet in 8 years. In my second round after that layoff, I went straight. If you practice your gun mount, keep your head down, focus on the target, swing smoothly, follow-thru, keep your gun speed up and trust your brain to put the shotgun far enough out in front, you can hit them very consistently, be they clay or feathered.
I also compete at .22 rimfire benchrest. We shoot at 50 yds and 50 meters. Wanna guess what range I practice at? It's not 100 or 200 yards that's for sure. I won the IR50/50 Unlimited Nationals last June and am in the Hall of Fame, so I guess I'm at least doing something right.
It is more than the long crosser which you seem to be stuck on. I essentially was writing about shooting a variety of different targets that where harder and more difficult than you normally find on your hunter oriented clays or skeet course. Tried, unsuccessfully obviously to point out that by challenging ones comfort zone they can reset it to higher level. They can get better. Which incidentally has been proven to be the case in all sports.
The long extreme crosser is only one of many ways to take oneself out of their established comfort zone. Stick with skeet, you may have found the perfect shotgun game for your personal mindset. Hope they all go perfectly thru the hoop, are launched at the correct speed and only go as far as the rules say.
My point was and is; as it relates to success in shooting clays and success on birds, shooting crossers at ranges one should never shoot at a bird or shooting targets like springing teal will have no real value in increasing one's success on game. They may be fun to some and challenging to many but I question their value in preparing one for live birds. The reason I really don't like those long crossers is that they may make shooters think they can make that shot on game and result in wounding of birds. It's not just about ability, terminal ballistics come into play. I'm not against shooting out of one's comfort zone and I actually enjoy SC courses that present difficult, challenging but realistic target presentations. I just believe that courses that are set up to present realistic targets will be better practice for shooting birds than targets that are unrealistic or would be unethical for shooting live birds. That is my objection to some SC courses and, as such, they annoy me.
I'll concede to you that shooting regular skeet all the time can get too predictable and a bit boring but one can introduce extra variety on a skeet field. During a round of skeet we will have shooters mixing it up by shooting all doubles, report doubles, shooting the incoming bird on doubles first, quail walk etc. Shooting reverse report doubles on station 8 is fun. SC at some of these big and challenging courses can be a bit pricey for the avg joe hunter. I can shoot a round of skeet at my club for what a local public SC course charges for 6 shots. If I shot as many targets at SC as I do at my club shooting skeet, I'd be in the poor house.
For the average hunter, looking to shoot clays to increase their hit % on live birds, I think shooting rounds of skeet or trap or realistic hunter-oriented SC course will be more productive and less frustrating than going to a SC course set up to challenge dedicated SC shooters. That's the point I was trying to say in my posts. I'll let this be my last thoughts on this thread. Dust 'em!
And yes SC is damned expensive. I'm not against any of the games and the top shooters in any of them would probably be able to transition into sporting with a short learning cure.
Trap doesn't interest me as much as Skeet, but anyone who can stand back at the 25-27yard line and grind out 100 is someone that knows how to shoot. Have shot some international bunker and that also will open your eyes. Really enjoy watching the international skeet people. It's another game altogether.
Sporting is what you make it. Today most clubs that shoot the hard stuff also have a course or sometimes two that are more hunter friendly. They also often have multiple stands on the same station. One that presents stiff targets and one that softens the same pair up.
I shoot clays more consistently probably. I shot trap off and on for a little while but became bored with it. I could only shoot 2 rounds and I was done. It did help some but sporting clays helped me a lot more. I usually shoot 49 out of 50 at trap and only do about 85% on sporting clays. I shoot about 70-75% on doves, and pigeons bout the same on waterfowl and way less on ruffed grouse in the Appalachian mountains. Depends greatly on the bird, snipe gives me the raw a$$. Hate them little bastids, only shot 4 or 5 times on them and have yet to bring one down.
Eating fried chicken and watermelon since 1972.
You tell me how I ought to be, yet you don't even know your own sexuality,, the philosopher,,, you know so much about nothing at all. Chuck Schuldiner
Thread took a slightly different track than intended but no problem. I was originally commenting on the distractions while hunting that are not reaLily present in shooting clays . Those distractions caused by not only target acquisition but also doing so while noting other shooters the dogs etc. for example I hunt with a party that has a couple of guys that are very slow in getting off a shot. So if you aren't careful they would never get a shot so often it's a matter of putting them in position and more or less shooting backup . However I occasionally muff a shot because it just puts you off your rythmn. Anyway I usually do better on clay games
What Harry said is spot on- you shoot harder targets at practice, easier shots will get hit with a higher percentage than previously. If someone limits themselves to 40 yard shots in the field, shooting further (or faster, for that matter), will only help. I competed in trapshooting for a long time, I even stepped back behind the 27 to practice for handicap events, and did well at it.
When any professional athlete trains, they train harder. Do you think NHL hockey players train for an hour and then quit, because their regulation games are only an hour? Train harder, with shooting- I always thought it was fun to push myself harder and see what I could do. Try it- you might just like it and kill more birds in the field because of it.
As to the original question- I always shoot better on clays- trap and skeet you know what kind of targets you'll be shooting, and at sporting clays they show you the pair before you start a station. You know you can get your foot position right, you have an idea of how much lead you need, etc. When a grouse erupts from my feet- my feet are always uneven, crossed, briars sticking in my arm...I'm sure it's quite a feat to see!
I wonder, if I practiced shooting sporting clays while balancing on a unicycle, would that make me a better game shot? It's hard to shoot from a unicycle so it must make one a better field shot, right? Matt Drike could do it and he was an Olympic Gold Medalist. Are our SC course designers missing the boat on this impressive skill by not including it in their designs? Maybe I should practice shooting flies on the wing with a rubber band gun. That's gotta be hard too, so that should make me a better game shot as well. That's gotta be a lot more useful than practicing shooting at clay targets at ranges one would actually shoot at game birds. How useless is that? I've been wasting my time for far too many years. It's a wonder anyone managed to bring down a game bird before the value of practicing unrealistic shots at unsportsmanly long ranges was discovered. And if I ever encounter a pheasant with a lit bottle rocket up it's, uh, vent, then maybe the practice on springing teal will finally pay off.
First you are starting to get a little out there in your counter points.
Second, just riding the unicycle will improve balance and core strength. So it just may improve your field shooting. I workout for a few reasons. One being to be in better shape to shoot and hunt.
Third, springing teal can also be practiced shooting it on the way down. Sooooo, with a crippled Pheasant that has a busted wing but still has its legs working and will hit the ground running, it would be advantageous to have the skill to hit a straight dropper and perhaps save a lost bird from running off. Even the best Dogs often have a problem with that situation. Nobody demands you shoot the springing teal on the way up.
Anyway, what some can do with a shotgun at ranges beyond what most of us can do. Wonder how he goes about getting back "in tune" as the Brits say when he needs to do so?
Little bit of advertising thrown in, but not much.
Battue, man, I am impressed. I've never witnessed you shoot a bird but you are obviously the best. I love your dedication and skill set. You practice on the hardest clay targets you can find, to make you a better birdhunter, you work out every day, to make you a better birdhunter, and you've acquired the skill of performing a visual autopsy on a pheasant as it falls to determine if it needs another shot. I never thought to acquire that skill. Once a bird was falling, I stopped shooting, but then, I had a dog that was excellent at recovering game and I preferred to eat meat rather then shot. But hey, you da man!!
First, your previous post a couple back was obviously not "your last thought" on this thread. Although from here your effort falls more than a little short.
Second, again obviously it wasn't Battue doing that work and I don't have those kind of skills. However, some do have them and they practiced out of their comfort zone to obtain them; in Digweed's case it carried over into his game shooting. Which was my main point. However, correct in that I do work out most every day. Will leave to do so shortly.
Third, the fact you never thought to acquire a certain skill, is on you not me. "Had" an excellent Dog is past tense and while past history can be fun when remembering, the here and now is what we have to live and make do with.
Fourth, I don't always practice on the hardest targets in that missing the easy ones will hurt your chances of posting a decent score than hitting the hard ones. But it is nice to have some idea in how you will go about hitting them.
Fifth, I picked out that particular video in that it thru you a bone. Kinda nice of me I thought, but in your rush to sarcasm you missed it.
You are stuck in your comfort zone and seem to have no desire to move past it. Certainly fine with me and probably the others who disagree with you also. Once again have fun.
I feel better about making a difficult shot on a game bird than I do on a clay target. I believe it is MUCH more difficult to hit consistently on game birds, because they are far more unpredictable. I am a 70-75% shot on most sporting clays courses. About the poorest of the top 1/3 of our local shooters. So i guess that means I'm a 70% shot on sporting clays.
However, I have been a lifelong student of wingshooting birds. I take it far more seriously, and because of that, I think I do better as a wingshot. I am not bragging, but by way of example i have been the invited test gunner for our local hunting dog field tests for more than 20 years. A test gunner does not get the invitation unless they can consistently kill the bird cleanly, and safely, under all conditions, with a handler, judges, and gallery watching.
I think I have missed four or six birds under test conditions, but that's it. There is something to be said for the IMPORTANCE of making the shot, not just the "technical difficulty" of making the shot. The mental game comes to the fore when the pressure is on. Some can handle it, some cannot. I have shot gun dog tests with superb clays gunners who fell apart when trying to pay attention to dog, handler, bird, judges, and gallery.
And I bet I would fall apart at a big competitive clays shoot, but that's not where my mind is at.
Oh, and for what it's worth, I shoot sporting clays the same way i'd shoot birds, low gun, safety on. Don't see any point to playing the game the way the others play the game.
What clays, trap, skeet or sporting clays? Shoot any of them gun mounted and they will help field shooting only little. Shoot them gun down and they will. Anyone of normal ability can advance to the 80% plus percentage on all of them gun down. On a hard sporting course most will fall short.
There are only few individuals with many days afield and many multiple opportunities that will bring down 80% plus in the uplands. There are some who will, but they are few and far between.
Just saw this. I believe this to be so true. Can't hit schit up; down seems more natural. Least, that how I look for birds.
Although from here your effort falls more than a little short.