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My daughter came home today and I asked her what she did at school. She was telling me about science, and how they're learning about Evoloution. I asked her if she believes in eveoloition and she said "no God did it."

She said her teacher also said "I don't believe in this but I have to teach it to you anyway."


I'll be dipped...

She can teach it but others have the right to their opinion. All students have a right to disagree. My two kids flat out said they did not believe it. They were bold enough to surprise the teachers. Admitting creation can not be "proven " but neither can evolution so , both are indeed theories. The is no way to prove neither. Creationists have simple theory. It is so vast and mysterious that only God could have created it. Evolutionists have a problem. They change their theories about every decade. The more one changes their theory the more the theory has suspicion.

The scientific evidence supporting evolution is overwhelming and logically consistent. The men who wrote the bible may have been inspired by God, but had no understanding of science or the scientific method and attempted to answer the mystery of the origins of life. We should understand that they did their best at this problem, but we know better.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...Search/true/Evolution_Proof?#Post8255381

You're entitled to your opinion just like everyone else, but that doesn't make you any righter.

I am simple minded when it comes to this discussion. I simply look at the growth of humans in the womb from egg to birth. That is clearly an evolving process. I believe God created all life, but question if he created it to remain as first introduced. Could he just as easily have created us to evolve on Earth, as in the womb, to become what we are today. In my mind, both evolution and creation are in conjunction with each other and both support the others point of view. And, I thank God every day for this wonderful gift.

No scientist has ever claimed the the "theory" of evolution had ever been proven. It is one of many theories that are always taught as a theory. Nothing at all wrong with that, but some Christians get their undies all tied up in knots when the subject is brought up.

For the record I'm a Christian and believe God created the universe and man. I also know that God chose not to provide all of the details of how he created everything in the bible, it is only a rough draft.

I don't believe there is any conflict between the bible and science. Science will someday be able to explain all of the wonders of the bible. God did after all create the science and many of his wonders can now be explained by science. Just because we can't explain creation now only confirms that God is smarter than we are. When he wants up to know the details they will be revealed to us.

When Christians get all up in arms thinking that someone is challenging the bible when the theory of evolution is brought up shows a lack of faith in God to me. There is no doubt that evolution exists in some from. I just have to trust in God and believe he did in fact create everything. I don't sweat the details of exactly how he went about it.

jMR40. The last half of your closing paragraph is a good answer.

I agree with the others who said you're entitled to your opinion, even if it is a bunch of stupid horse [bleep].

Good post.

The process of growing in the womb has nothing to do with evolution proper. You clearly must misunderstand what "evolution" entails as an explanatory philosophy of origins.

So if we evolved from apes, of which there are millions of today, and millions of humans today...what happened to the supposed ones in between?

Please prove this.

its a lot easier to hold proof of evolution in your hand then it is to prove anything the bible says.

V

Perzactly!

This. And they were trying to "explain" this to uneducated and superstitious people.

Scientific theory and faith in God can coexist. Unless one has his head up his azz.

AMazing isn't it. Although lately I'm starting to believe we may have had both the way some races act...

Kudo's on you for raising your daughter very well!

We see evolution in progress all the time...politicians are very adept at it...

My hope certainly isn't in evolution.

Changing the theory is a result of discovering new evidence that may or may not contradict the old theory. Nothing is static, especially what there is left to learn. We learn new things everyday even in the modern world.

We once thought the earth was flat. Discovery of evidence to the contrary cause the flat earthers to change their theory.

No one has ever made the claim that evolution was linear. As species evolved into a new and improved models, the inferior ones died off because they couldn't adapt or compete.

We didn't evolve from apes...though related, we're a different species...Just like [bleep] c h i m p a n zees are related but an entirely different species than Gorillas...At some point in the history of planet, we Probably were the same species...we also share genetic DNA with pigs & other mammals. We're in our infancy in figuring it all out, but I suspect that if mankind can survive for another couple thousand years, we'll have a much better grasp on the origins & evolution of life...
BTW, I'm agnostic...so I don't have a dog in the fight of creationism vs. evolution, but in my mind, if man hadn't evolved & adapted, we'd be an extinct species...

I can't believe Rick has C H I M Panzees on his "bleep" list...
Can I still say pussy & cock?


http://www.livescience.com/21196-dolphin-brain-evolution-intelligence.html
http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2010/05/03/2887206.htm

I don't view it as a rough draft, but only what we need to know and grow as is best for us, if we are willing, and a little more besides. He provided all I need to know about how He creates: simply by His Spoken Word. Not only does that tell me about Creation, but speaks books about Him. Pun intended.

I don't either, but recognize many conflicts between the Bible and scientists, by their choice. That's becoming a distinction without a difference, as intended which is as I believe.

There is a rather obscure verse in proverbs that says it is to the Glory of God to conceal a thing, and to the glory of kings to search it out. Truly, there will be much revealed to us when we are "face to face", but until that epic moment, I believe He wants us to search out all the truths we can from His Word and His Creation. Those who do, while giving Him the Glory, will be kings in His eyes.


Your post is a good one and my opinions are not meant to argue or contradict but to express or expand a bit more. Have a good day.

It is not an opinion. It is supported by millions of facts and is logically consistent. I believe that the way people should think about this is that God created animals and people using evolution.

The description of creation in the bible is the best that the people who wrote the bible could do without science. I am a believer in: give unto God what is God's and give unto scientists what is science.

Point of order, but Biblical creation is a belief, evolution is a theory.

No proof is necessary to hold a belief, and no amount of proof can disprove it. It need not be consistent, nor logical, nor credible. It just is.

A theory is a postulation of a set of rules, which can then be dis-proven, and subsequently replaced with another set of proposed rules.

It's impossible to NOT BELIEVE in the theory of evolution. It's a theory, not a belief. A person can try to disprove it scientifically, but I've not seen that done yet.

I've seen a direct correlation twixt the radical and vocal support of evolution and the support and belief in the murder of unborn children.

These threads are never not fun!

This is the same kind of science that brought us "Global Warming"or is it "Global Freezing"oh yea its "Climate Change"now.We dont know anything we simply believe.Everybody pick whatever they want and stop saying its a fact.

Yep.

The idea of creation and intelligent design is simply stupid.

The fact that in today's world there are still people that honestly think the earth is only 6000 years old is distressing to say the least.

Look at the ones that think we come from aliens.Everybody has their evidence to back up what they have chosen to believe.They are all faith,just in different things.

Gravity is a theory. You can choose to not believe in it and I encourage anyone to jump off a 10 story building to demonstrate their faith.

I idea that if I let go of something and it will hit the ground is pretty much a fact.The reason for it may be a theory but its happening is fact.I can watch it over and over.

I came in here hoping to see pictures of an attractive lady and here its old dudes arguing points they can't prove and no one will ever agree with them. Leaving saddened.

Exactly! Evolution can be observed in much the same way. For all intents and purposes it is cold hard fact.

No it cant.Who is going to live long enough to watch it.You cant call it a fact.You can tell why you choose to believe it it,so can chicken little(it hit him in the head).

We can see the enormous amount of physical evidence that supports it.

You can believe in anything you want.Chicken little had all the evidence he needed also.You seem to have all the evidence you need,thats fine.Some folks have all the evidence they need to to believe in aliens ect.ect.ect.You seem to think that your evidence should mean the same to everyone else that it means to you,why is that?

193...,

please peruse the .223 AI thread which you will find in the miscellaneous forum at the bottom of the forum list.

There is no shortage of "attractive" ladies there, most of the "old dudes" participating in that discussion may argue at times over the attractiveness of a particular "lady", but they usually find a few to agree on.

You will thank me for this information if you have not already visited that part of our wonderful campfire.

Geno

PS, I hear there are a couple of guys old enough down there to have seen the beginning of evolution. Or if not that old, they were around to edit the first edition of the "Book".

PSS, I may be one of those old guys soon.

To further this discussion,

How do "we" know God is a "he"?

Is there physical evidence to support that line of thinking?

Geno

I believe in evolution a lot more than i believe in a bunch of books that have been translated a ton of times, and by kings who picked out the parts that benefitted them, etc etc. Like it or not, were all probably descended of black ape like african tree dwellers, sometime in the last 1.5 million years or so.

Well then wear shorts when you die, it's going to be hot.

The large majority seem to be here on the 'fire.

Some folks confuse evidence with proof.

What's wrong with believing that both are correct? God created life and humans as part of that ... and over time, we have evolved from how we were created then, into what we are now?

No need for anyone to have to fight over which is true, then they are not mutually exclusive conditions.

stevelyn,



The belief in evolution, like creation, is a belief system. Facts are different. Here is something to consider:
"Using this known data about mutation rates, a variety of researcher have used computer simulations to model the accumulation of mutations in the human genome over time. It was found that over 90% of harmful mutations fail to be removed over time and are passed on to subsequent generations."

Emphasis by the writers.

These results were developed from both evolutionists and creationist.

What this shows is natural selection does NOT eliminate harmful mutations. Certainly this would apply to all species.

Middlefork_Miner,



We share 50% of our DNA with bananas. All that proves is 50% of our DNA and a banana are the same. Without counting I would bet big money that 75% of the letters in your post and mine are the same. That proves nothing other than we use most of the same letters. Your post and mine came from an intelligent mind. (I use the term loosely here.) There is evidence all life came from an intelligent mind. Scientific info suggests order can not come from chaos.

What type of genetic mutation is passed along? An insertion of a protein or a deletion? A mutation can itself be evidence of evolution.

ConradCA,



This is patently false. Evolution is NOT supported by millions of facts. Creationist and evolutionist have the same facts. It's a matter of interpretation.



The theory of evolution was developed to get away from The Creator. The vast majority of scientists who brought us out of the dark ages were creationists. If you lay out the theory of evolution next to the Bible creation story you see contradiction after contradiction.

The idea the ancients were ignorant compared to us is falsified by the pyramids and walls in central and South America. We don't know how they achieved these feats. I remember reading about a brass spring found in some sedimentary rock. Some scientists put a modern spring and the brass spring in a machine. After a few million moves the steel spring broke. They put another steel spring in there and the same thing happened. The unknown manufactured brass spring lasted millions of times longer than our best steel springs. Another artifact was a pick found in sedimentary rock. It should have been rusted, but it wasn't. They discovered it was combined with chlorine instead of carbon like we do today.

Out Of Place Artifacts is a fairly new science. For me the artifacts are not out of place. Modern man is so full of himself because we have by and large been brainwashed since watching cartoon through graduate school and here on the social net that we are more intelligent than ancient man.

Dutch,



It's only that way to a brainwashed person. They are both faith positions. No one was there to observe either beginning. At least with Bible creation we can appeal to An Infinite Intelligent Energy. Evolution has to start with nothing producing something. Tell us which is more scientific: A result being greater than its cause or a cause being greater than its result.

ill class up the joint, its gonna be full of fire members and will need all the help it can get :-D

This is not a fair characterization at all. It's not that the world is only 6000 years old, it's that the world has only been round for 6000 years. Before that it was flat. Anybody with an 8th grade education knows this...

jdm953,



A creationists scientist discovered gravity.

19352012,



Speak for your group. I know some who have changed their minds.

It's not coincidence that ALL life starts as a single cell...

Valsdad,



God tells us He is a spirit and those who worship him worship Him in spirit and Truth. We have no idea Who or What exactly God is. We do know from history God is very loving and extremely harsh. Consider Noah's Flood and killing His Own Son.



At the same time God says He took on the form of a man and looked us in the eye experiencing the same things we experience without our faults. The most documented legal historical fact is the life death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth. God, The Rule Maker, tells us if you don't accept His Gift of His Son, Jesus, He will be very offended. He will be so offended he will torment us for eternity. It is a Free Gift. But we must ask. Of course this requires something most of us don't even strive for: Humility!

acooper1983,



Ever hear of the Dead Sea Scrolls? Your ignorance is showing.

WGM,



People who have not study say this sort of thing.

AcesNeights,



Here's the problem with mutations. They are like getting on a plane headed for Hawaii when you want to go to New York. You're going the wrong direction. There are no known beneficial mutations. I read just last week if the mutation rates stay at the present rate humans will be extinct in 2,000 years.

kingston,



Here's the problem with your belief. The book reputed to be the oldest in the Bible teaches the earth is round. Columbus was a Christian who believed his Bible. He was convinced he could sail to India by sailing WEST despite it being east of where he was.

Mutations are evolution. Mutations that are compatible with life are potential evolutionary traits being expressed. The first fish with legs was laughed at by all his aquatic friends until the ocean conditions changed.

Have you read the book The Science of God by Gerald Schroeder?

AcesNeights,



It's called design. Based on all the scientific tests since scientific tests started hundreds of years ago life comes from life.

I agree. That first single cell created by God, by his design evolved into life forms that have been extinct for millions of years and yet life continues to evolve into other life forms.

AcesNeights,



Mutations are mistakes in the DNA. They are NOT evolution in the mice to men scenario.



What beneficial mutations are you familiar with that can be passed on to the next generation? All scientific tests show there is a limit to how much change is in the DNA. If it goes beyond that the fetus aborts.



Were you there? What a silly anthropomorphisaion.

Malaria resistance.

TOne of the genes that governs bone density in human beings is called low-density lipoprotein receptor-related protein 5, or LRP5 for short. Mutations which impair the function of LRP5 are known to cause osteoporosis. But a different kind of mutation can amplify its function, causing one of the most unusual human mutations known.

This mutation was first discovered fortuitously, when a young person from a Midwest family was in a serious car crash from which they walked away with no broken bones. X-rays found that they, as well as other members of the same family, had bones significantly stronger and denser than average. (One doctor who's studied the condition said, "None of those people, ranging in age from 3 to 93, had ever had a broken bone.") In fact, they seem resistant not just to injury, but to normal age-related skeletal degeneration. Some of them have benign bony growths on the roof of their mouths, but other than that, the condition has no side effects - although, as the article notes dryly, it does make it more difficult to float. As with Apo-AIM, some drug companies are researching how to use this as the basis for a therapy that could help people with osteoporosis and other skeletal diseases.he classic example of evolutionary change in humans is the hemoglobin mutation named HbS that makes red blood cells take on a curved, sickle-like shape. With one copy, it confers resistance to malaria, but with two copies, it causes the illness of sickle-cell anemia. This is not about that mutation.

As reported in 2001 (see also), Italian researchers studying the population of the African country of Burkina Faso found a protective effect associated with a different variant of hemoglobin, named HbC. People with just one copy of this gene are 29% less likely to get malaria, while people with two copies enjoy a 93% reduction in risk. And this gene variant causes, at worst, a mild anemia, nowhere near as debilitating as sickle-cell disease.

AcesNeights,



What evidence do you have for this statement? Certainly not the way the God of the Bible created. God says He created everything fully developed and ready to function in its present condition; except for the degradation God forced on His creation. Death does not create. God says the last enemy that will be destroyed is death. God says, "By sin death entered the creation."

A mutation is almost exclusively an insertion or deletion of a protein in the DNA sequence. To think that all mutations are bad or deleterious to the host is incorrect. They certainly can be harmful or fatal but aren't always.

Sherpas are born with substantially larger lungs than non Sherpas. That's an evolutionary change not a function of acclimatization.

AcesNeights,



If both parents have cycle cell anemia all their child do not survive.



Remember I mentioned the evolutionist and the creationist have the same info. You and I see the info about the bones differently. I see what the majority have is the result of a deleterious mutation causing weaker bones. The family you sighted is like two of my friends. Both of them can see what normal people see with 7X binoculars. One can see in the dark almost the same as we see in the day.

AcesNeights,



That is your preferred belief. It is not supported by investigative science.



See the above statement about my friends who can see like 7X binoculars. Those who had the good lungs survived and kept up with the group. Those who didn't didn't and died.

I honestly don't care what other folks believe. I'm sure most of my hunting buddies adhere to evolution and that's fine. There is a reason why my beliefs require faith.

I used to think evolution was a natural progression of man. But, after reading some of the postings on this forum, I know that some here have not evolved since God created Neanderthals!

This.

kwg

Not so!

Science does not support Darwinian Evolution. Hence the term "theory."





Darwinian Evolution fails to explain the evolution of the different "kinds" of cratures.

What happened over eons to us could well have happened in "the blink of an eye" to any God or first mover.

Time is relative, and any discussion of evolution should keep sight of that.

Ever think that just maybe our universe it a mere speck of dust in a larger one?

LMAO!!!

ro1459,



You are conflating the word "evolution" in this paragraph. In your first use I agree completely with the word because it is merely change according to a program. The other use is molecules to man which is not supported by observation.



You say this because you don't take God at His Word. You want to elevate man's opinion above God's Word because you've heard evolution since cartoons. Once I had a conversation with a college educated friend. I asked, "Are you an evolutionist or a creationist?" He said, "I haven't given it any thought." "Then you are an evolutionist," I continued, "because believing in creation requires thought to over come all the brainwashing from years of evolutionary indoctrination."

As opposed to your religious indoctrination...

I agree that people often do choose their own form of indoctrination...

Ok, I hear people all the time say Christians are wrong when we tell how it began. The evolutionists pick it apart, we defend it but I have NEVER heard an evolutionist tell anyone exactly how it happened. Tell me , and I will pick it apart to no end. Carry on , now it's our turn. Oh, and start from the beginning , and not some long brain dead a hole atheist that out argued a creationist. . I want evidence and proof. If you have no evidence and proof , it is indeed a theory, but it is portrayed as PROOF in the public schools, by the same liberals that believe we came form apes, a star blew up , or some dumb assz idea from some dumb asszz that will no doubt vote for Bernie or Hillary and believe we should give up our guns. Now, start from the beginning on how it all started and I will pick it apart to no end.

luv2safari,



You don't get it. Because I did so much reading I discovered all evolutionary positions are refuted by another evolutionist. It took a lot of reading to conclude there is an Infinite Intelligent Energy. After a few years the faith I had in evolution came to rest on the God of the Bible. I was "indoctrinated", not from the schools like my good buddy, but rather by my own research.

That's why I occasionally challenge evolutionists to come up with a Ph.D creationist physical scientist (not a theologian or philosopher) who became an evolutionist and I will come up with a hundred Ph.D evolutionists who became creationist from the field research and laboratory work.

I think God is just the best scientist ever. He created us and let us evolve.

The evolution from monkeys is a bunch of crap! Unless your from Ferguson, MO and the like...

We evolved from a common ancestor, and over 99% of all species have gone extinct.

Believing in a theory does NOT mean one doesn't also believe in God. I believe evolution is part of Gods ultimate design. To deny that God could provide the mechanism for animals to survive and adapt to external variables is selling God short. To believe that we know more than God does or that we understand fully what God does is pretty bold.

Were dinosaurs real? If so was man walking with them? Is the earth less than 10,000 years old?

If everything was created as it exist today, everything would fit into place... As to a missing link... It was never missing, been here since beginning of time, just a little closer kin to the ape, both mentally and physically.

Ahh, those progenitors are called "transitional forms", the fossils of which Darwin was certain would be unearthed post haste.


They're still looking for them......

Every once in a while one turns up.

Which demostrates the laws of Thermodynamics, and flies in the face of Evolutionary Theory.

The earth is not a closed system, and there is nothing about species going extinct that is contrary to the Theory of Evolution.

BULLSCHIDT.

So you are asserting the earth is a closed system?

It must get lonely living in your own little world.

So you are asserting the earth is a closed system? [/quote]

Of course not. I have a time machine on the back porch. I've also been all over the Universe, ain't you?

Holy fugk T. You got one going here huh? lol

TZ, good to hear. Good on the teacher and good on you all for doing a great job of raising young ones.

^^^^
This

Of course not. I have a time machine on the back porch. I've also been all over the Universe, ain't you?[/quote]

Grandpa, it's time for you to put down the Ghost Train Haze and go to bed.

Sure, don't encourage and nurture a child's critical thinking skills. If there is a question you can't understand, don't think about it rationally, because the answer obviously is "God did it"!