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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 11,493 |
The Fin Feather Fur put a flyer in our local newspaper.
Savage Axis 1 XP in .243 caliber, including Bushnell 3-9x40 scope, for $199 including the mail in rebate.
If you want another caliber, $149 will get you 22-250, .308, 30-06, or .270 without scope, same rebate but you have to buy one box of centerfire rifle ammo. For instance a box of 20 Federal 55 grain 5.56x45 for $7.99.
For those who want to be "tacticool," how about a Zastava AK47 clone, 7.62x39, for $579?
Guns don't ever wear out. Is the firearms industry going to put itself out of business or will just some of them go broke?
Don't blame me. I voted for Trump.
Democrats would burn this country to the ground, if they could rule over the ashes.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
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more folks owning more guns is never a bad thing...
I'd buy a couple in a heartbeat if they were around here...
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Nov 2015
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2015
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Well, I've always heard that you couldn't hardly give a Savage away. Looks like that was pretty close to being right.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,135
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,135 |
I think that we might see firearms manufacturers eventually reduce the lines to two grades, a standard grade and a high grade.
In a similar distillation of the American automobile market, GM eliminated two of their three mid-grade lines when Oldsmobile and Pontiac went away. Ford did away with Mercury and Chrysler did away with Plymouth.
Ruger's center-fire line is pretty much two tier, the RARs and the 77s.
A consequence of this distillation could be the reduction of cartridge options in firearms, keeping the production going for rifles chambered for high volume cartridges and, reducing or even eliminating the production of firearms for less popular, lower volume cartridges. An additional consequence farther downstream could be less access to factory ammo and components for those lower volume cartridges. When Olin still owned and ran Winchester, they appeared to care more about providing factory ammo for cartridges that they had introduced for rifles that they sold, so they kept making enough production runs of cartridges like the 218 Bee, 220 Swift, 225 Win, 25-20, 25-35, etc. to keep some inventory on dealer shelves. Since Olin is no longer directly tied to Winchester firearms, they no longer seem to feel much obligation to support Winchester owners with low demand ammo. When they can sell all the higher demand ammo that they can produce, why should they reallocate production capacity for "obsolete" cartridges?
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Campfire Regular
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We have become a nation that demands products at "throwaway" prices: look at televisions, etc. I'm concerned that we are killing craftsmanship with downward pricing pressure but the market did not ask for my opinion.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I think that many retailers have realized that with people being willing to buy ammunition at the ridiculous prices being asked, it is in their best interest to sell a lot of rifles cheaply and then rake in the profits on ammunition - the more rifles out there, the more ammunition being consumed.
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)
Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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A consequence of this distillation could be the reduction of cartridge options in firearms, keeping the production going for rifles chambered for high volume cartridges and, reducing or even eliminating the production of firearms for less popular, lower volume cartridges. An additional consequence farther downstream could be less access to factory ammo and components for those lower volume cartridges. When Olin still owned and ran Winchester, they appeared to care more about providing factory ammo for cartridges that they had introduced for rifles that they sold, so they kept making enough production runs of cartridges like the 218 Bee, 220 Swift, 225 Win, 25-20, 25-35, etc. to keep some inventory on dealer shelves. Since Olin is no longer directly tied to Winchester firearms, they no longer seem to feel much obligation to support Winchester owners with low demand ammo. When they can sell all the higher demand ammo that they can produce, why should they reallocate production capacity for "obsolete" cartridges? I predict the following cartridges will be dead soon as far as the major ammunition makers go: .17 Hornet .17 Remington .17 Remington Fireball .204 Ruger .22 Accelerator .22 Hornet .22 CHeetah .218 Bee .219 Zipper .220 Russian .220 Swift .221 Remington Fireball .222 Remington Magnum .223 Winchester Super Short Magnum .225 Winchester .243 Winchester Super Short Magnum .244 H&H Magnum .244 Remington .25 Remington .25 Winchester Super Short Magnum .250 Savage .25-06 Remington .25-20 Winchester .25-35 Winchester .250-3000 Savage .257 Roberts .26 Nosler 260 Remington .264 Winchester Magnum .270 Winchester Short Magnum .275 Rigby .28 Nosler .280 Ross .280 Remington .284 Winchester .30 Nosler .30 RAR .30 Remington .30 Remington AR .30 TC .30-40 Krag (.30 Army) .30-03 .300 Remington SA Ultra Mag .300 Ruger Compact Magnum .30 Newton .30 R Blaser .300 Savage .300 Winchester Short Magnum .300 Remington Ultra Magnum .300 H&H Magnum .300 H&H Flanged .303 British .303 Savage .307 Winchester .308 Marlin Express .308 Norma Magnum .32 Remington .32 Winchester Self-Loading .32-30 Remington .32-20 Winchester (.32 WCF, .32-20 Marlin, .32 Colt Lightning) .32-40 Ballard .32-40 Winchester .325 Winchester Short Magnum .333 Jeffery .338 Edge .338 Federal .338 Lapua Magnum .338 Marlin express .338 Norma Magnum .338 Remington Ultra Magnum .338 Ruger Compact Magnum .338-06 A-Square .338-378 Weatherby Magnum .348 Winchester .35 Remington .35 Winchester .35 Winchester Self-Loading .350 Remington Magnum .351 Winchester Self-Loading .356 Winchester .358 Hoosier .358 Norma Magnum .358 Winchester .375 Remington Ultra Magnum .375 Ruger .375 Weatherby Magnum .375 Whelen (.375-06) .375 Winchester .375 CheyTac .376 Steyr .38-40 Winchester .38-55 Winchester .38-56 WCF .38-90 Winchester Express .38-44 UMC I don't think the big three care about us at all. I would like to see Privi Partizan come out with a lot of these great cartridges, even if it involved once a year limited runs. Thanks...
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Joined: May 2006
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Well I only have 16 of those listed......... glad i have lot's of brass and dies.
Flyer
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Mode70man,
Some of the cartridges you list have NEVER been manufactured by the Big Three ammo makers in the first place, but are doing quite well, thanks to the "other" ammo makers who introduced them. Recent introductions that are selling well include the .17 Hornady Hornet, 26 Nosler and .375 Ruger, and I doubt that Hornady or Nosler cares whether Federal, Remington or Winchester ever produce brass or ammo.
Many if not most of the others are being produced, either in brass or ammo, by various specialized firms. Often they cost more, but if there's any demand for something like, say, the .33 Winchester, somebody will make brass and ammo. (I know this because of owning a .33 Winchester.)
The Big Three are so large (and even part of even larger conglomerates) that they have a hard time responding to consumer demand for lesser-selling rounds. They've grown too big for one person to make a decision--which is why we're seeing demand for many of the rounds you list filled by family-owned companies like Hornady and Nosler, along with other companies from Bertram to Norma. One of the great things about capitalism is if there's a void, usually somebody will fill it.
In a way it's like 21st-century book publishing. The big companies in New York City can only afford to publish bestsellers, because they have so many employees. If they publish a new book and it doesn't take off within a couple months, they drop the publicity campaign and push other books that have taken off.
Partly this is because digital printing and the Internet have made self-publishing a practical alternative for many writers, especially for books with a more specialized appeal that don't need to sell hundreds of thousands of copies for their authors to make a profit.
The difference, however, is that if a book doesn't sell well enough for a big publishing company to justify printing more copies, nobody loses except the big publishing company. But when a new cartridge fails, or old cartridges fade away, owners of those rifles need to find a way to make their guns go bang. Which is why smaller companies are filling the demand now being unfilled by the Big Three.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,469
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2003
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Mode70man,
Some of the cartridges you list have NEVER been manufactured by the Big Three ammo makers in the first place, but are doing quite well, thanks to the "other" ammo makers who introduced them. Recent introductions that are selling well include the .17 Hornady Hornet, 26 Nosler and .375 Ruger, and I doubt that Hornady or Nosler cares whether Federal, Remington or Winchester ever produce brass or ammo.
Many if not most of the others are being produced, either in brass or ammo, by various specialized firms. Often they cost more, but if there's any demand for something like, say, the .33 Winchester, somebody will make brass and ammo. (I know this because of owning a .33 Winchester.)
The Big Three are so large (and even part of even larger conglomerates) that they have a hard time responding to consumer demand for lesser-selling rounds. They've grown too big for one person to make a decision--which is why we're seeing demand for many of the rounds you list filled by family-owned companies like Hornady and Nosler, along with other companies from Bertram to Norma. One of the great things about capitalism is if there's a void, usually somebody will fill it.
In a way it's like 21st-century book publishing. The big companies in New York City can only afford to publish bestsellers, because they have so many employees. If they publish a new book and it doesn't take off within a couple months, they drop the publicity campaign and push other books that have taken off.
Partly this is because digital printing and the Internet have made self-publishing a practical alternative for many writers, especially for books with a more specialized appeal that don't need to sell hundreds of thousands of copies for their authors to make a profit.
The difference, however, is that if a book doesn't sell well enough for a big publishing company to justify printing more copies, nobody loses except the big publishing company. But when a new cartridge fails, or old cartridges fade away, owners of those rifles need to find a way to make their guns go bang. Which is why smaller companies are filling the demand now being unfilled by the Big Three. Thanks John. I didn't research this very much and you are right of course. Thanks for the corrections. Bill.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 38,850 |
...In a way it's like 21st-century book publishing. The big companies in New York City can only afford to publish bestsellers, because they have so many employees. If they publish a new book and it doesn't take off within a couple months, they drop the publicity campaign and push other books that have taken off ... You would think that they would be rolling in dough from all the money they have saved since they quit employing proof readers.
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)
Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,064
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,064 |
That would be true, except for the fact that they never paid proof readers much!
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,064
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,064 |
Bill,
Not corrections, just discussions! You made an excellent point.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Mar 2003
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Bill,
Not corrections, just discussions! You made an excellent point. Thanks John! Bill.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,938 |
The Fin Feather Fur put a flyer in our local newspaper.
Savage Axis 1 XP in .243 caliber, including Bushnell 3-9x40 scope, for $199 including the mail in rebate.
If you want another caliber, $149 will get you 22-250, .308, 30-06, or .270 without scope, same rebate but you have to buy one box of centerfire rifle ammo. For instance a box of 20 Federal 55 grain 5.56x45 for $7.99.
For those who want to be "tacticool," how about a Zastava AK47 clone, 7.62x39, for $579?
Guns don't ever wear out. Is the firearms industry going to put itself out of business or will just some of them go broke? That depends on how weak the Euro goes, and how high the dollar index goes.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I think that many of those are effectively dead already, to the big boys, and have been for some time. Fortunately, outfits like those mentioned by JB, and also Starline, have stepped in to fill the void. Starline recently expanded and I expect to see new offerings in the future.
A number of the rounds you listed are proprietary or wildcat and were never mainstream. People who bought into those likely went in knowing that they were going to be pretty much on their own sooner or later for ammo and brass, or should have. When jumping onto the new cartridge bandwagon, it's a good idea to make sure that the platform gives you an exit route via re-barrelling or rechambering. Ask the WSSM boys.
Last edited by Pappy348; 02/12/16.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Posts: 6,698
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2006
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A friend has 600 rds of .338 WinMag.
He is ready.
I like to do my hunting BEFORE I pull the trigger!
There is only one kind of dead, but there are many different kinds of wounded.
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Posts: 1,484
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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My first rifle purchase a Ruger 77 in 7mm RM was $179 in 1977 and that was a lot of money for a high schooler making less than $1.50 hour. Less than double that for a Savage lefty 30-06 last month for my grandson. The fact is this is the golden age of affordable hunting rifles that shoot well with fabulous optics available at reasonable prices.
If that long list of calibers were to disappear tomorrow we rifle nuts would be sorry but would a single game animal be able to tell the difference. Do you miss the 25-20 for hunting purposes? I've only read about that caliber and never seen so much as an empty case. I've shot and reloaded for a 308 Norma and while that is a good caliber nobody will miss it if they are forced to use a different 300 magnum caliber.
It's hard to find horseless carriage parts and scopes that are adjusted externally too, it should be ok for some things to go away and be out competed in the market and for small companies like Starline make a living filling that niche for more sentimental shooters who love their old guns.
Cheaper rifles that perform are a good thing overall but like many modern changes lack the older products craftsmanship so evident in fine goods produced by skilled hands. If you think of guns as works of art it's a shame if you think of them as tools it's an improvement.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Well he included the .280 Remington in that list and I don't see that one going anywhere. Every gun shop and pawn shop I go into stocks .280. Commonly in two different brands.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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A consequence of this distillation could be the reduction of cartridge options in firearms, keeping the production going for rifles chambered for high volume cartridges and, reducing or even eliminating the production of firearms for less popular, lower volume cartridges. An additional consequence farther downstream could be less access to factory ammo and components for those lower volume cartridges. When Olin still owned and ran Winchester, they appeared to care more about providing factory ammo for cartridges that they had introduced for rifles that they sold, so they kept making enough production runs of cartridges like the 218 Bee, 220 Swift, 225 Win, 25-20, 25-35, etc. to keep some inventory on dealer shelves. Since Olin is no longer directly tied to Winchester firearms, they no longer seem to feel much obligation to support Winchester owners with low demand ammo. When they can sell all the higher demand ammo that they can produce, why should they reallocate production capacity for "obsolete" cartridges? I predict the following cartridges will be dead soon as far as the major ammunition makers go: .17 Hornet .17 Remington .17 Remington Fireball .204 Ruger .22 Accelerator .22 Hornet .22 CHeetah .218 Bee .219 Zipper .220 Russian .220 Swift .221 Remington Fireball .222 Remington Magnum .223 Winchester Super Short Magnum .225 Winchester .243 Winchester Super Short Magnum .244 H&H Magnum .244 Remington .25 Remington .25 Winchester Super Short Magnum .250 Savage .25-06 Remington .25-20 Winchester .25-35 Winchester .250-3000 Savage .257 Roberts .26 Nosler 260 Remington .264 Winchester Magnum .270 Winchester Short Magnum .275 Rigby .28 Nosler .280 Ross .280 Remington .284 Winchester .30 Nosler .30 RAR .30 Remington .30 Remington AR .30 TC .30-40 Krag (.30 Army) .30-03 .300 Remington SA Ultra Mag .300 Ruger Compact Magnum .30 Newton .30 R Blaser .300 Savage .300 Winchester Short Magnum .300 Remington Ultra Magnum .300 H&H Magnum .300 H&H Flanged .303 British .303 Savage .307 Winchester .308 Marlin Express .308 Norma Magnum .32 Remington .32 Winchester Self-Loading .32-30 Remington .32-20 Winchester (.32 WCF, .32-20 Marlin, .32 Colt Lightning) .32-40 Ballard .32-40 Winchester .325 Winchester Short Magnum .333 Jeffery .338 Edge .338 Federal .338 Lapua Magnum .338 Marlin express .338 Norma Magnum .338 Remington Ultra Magnum .338 Ruger Compact Magnum .338-06 A-Square .338-378 Weatherby Magnum .348 Winchester .35 Remington .35 Winchester .35 Winchester Self-Loading .350 Remington Magnum .351 Winchester Self-Loading .356 Winchester .358 Hoosier .358 Norma Magnum .358 Winchester .375 Remington Ultra Magnum .375 Ruger .375 Weatherby Magnum .375 Whelen (.375-06) .375 Winchester .375 CheyTac .376 Steyr .38-40 Winchester .38-55 Winchester .38-56 WCF .38-90 Winchester Express .38-44 UMC I don't think the big three care about us at all. I would like to see Privi Partizan come out with a lot of these great cartridges, even if it involved once a year limited runs. Thanks... 25/06 300 WSM 35 Remington And possable the 260 Remington will be here for a wile
It is not about what you kill, it is about the hunt....
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