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Gentlemen,
Aside from a number of larger custom projects I find that I have several Pre-64, specifically pre-53 solid handle one piece bolt, Model 70s that have 06' based feed rails, as well as a couple Echols Pre-64 Legend Stocks. Combine this with a 1000 pieces of Lapua 260 Brass and just short of 150 pounds of fresh H4350 and all sorts of Berger and Lapua Bullets. Mostly 139 and up... I was thinking about having Dave Tooley true an action and turn down the Bartlein 1-8" 5R Remington Varmint to a #5 Contour, or maybe I'll trade or buy a tube from bugholes.com and barrel it to a .260 Remington with an unrestricted seating depth... I've already talked to Alex Sitman at MasterClass about fitting the Legend Stock to the Barreled Action and pillar bedding the affair. Questions:

1. Use the standard length .30-06' magazine to push 140s out as far as they want to go, and keep that in mind with the reamer design, or install a Pre-64 .308/.243 length magazine? Rifle is to be a fun gun with the aim to burn some powder, which I have too much of, and put a barrels worth of wear behind an Echols Legend stock. How better to gain experience with the handle?

2. Light Contour or Heavier? I have have two Pre-64 Legend stocks. One sporter and one 5 contour plus Barrel channel... Neither are heavy. The are both standard fill. Want to keep barrel length modest. 22-23" at most...

3. .260 Lapua Brass is from Brownells. It can go back for exchange for life. I have had it boxed sitting with it's Redding Comp dies ready to ship to exchange for the same thing in 6.5x47 Lapua and Redding Comp dies... I just don't know if the Lapua gains anything from a 06' based magazine. Hell I don't that a 260 really gains all that much when you look at the Berger 130 AR...

Dave says the action is the last component in accuracy. He says the Pre-64s can be built to shoot very, very well... Somehow know him I trust that. Pre-64 70 in Echols Legend spitting out 6.5x47 Lapua cases makes for an odd mental picture or does it?

Only 6.5mm barrel I have on hand is the previously mentioned Bartlein 1-8" Remington Varmint Contour...

Thoughts guys? Open to input here. Trying to keep this one on budget and fun... Using on hand components.

Regards, Matt.


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Exchange the 260 brass and dies for 6.5x55 brass and dies.
Lapua makes 6.5x55 brass. Would be a better fit n the M70.
Go light contour, you may love it so much you want to carry it in the field?
Heavy contours suck for hunting.

If you know it will never leave the bench then go heavy.
Easier to spot your shots at long range etc...

Have a hard time wrapping my mind around a pr-64 M70 in a bench gun, but it's your money and your rifles so by all means do what pleases you.

As to the 6.5x47 it may cause feed issues? Hate to see you alter your M70 to make it work?


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You'll may have to alter the '06, .473" bolt face/extractor somewhat to accommodate the slightly larger .479" Swede rim. I guess it depends on how tight the bolt face is spec'ed.

My Lapua Swede cases wouldn't fit in my #3 RCBS shell holder, I had to get a #2 30-30 shell holder.

Not sure about other brands, some may be loose enough to accommodate the slightly larger rim.

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Originally Posted by irfubar
Exchange the 260 brass and dies for 6.5x55 brass and dies.
Lapua makes 6.5x55 brass. Would be a better fit n the M70.
Go light contour, you may love it so much you want to carry it in the field?
Heavy contours suck for hunting.

If you know it will never leave the bench then go heavy.
Easier to spot your shots at long range etc...



^ That. To me the advantage of the 6.5x47L over the 260 Rem is on a short action due to seating constraints. In this action the Swede would seem to me to stand out above the 260 for the same reason.

I ordered a custom tube from Rock Creek directly and they said they're 4-6 wks out. You might consider them if the contour of what you have is holding you back.

Good luck,

efw


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Guys,
Appreciate the input but no Swedes... Nothing personal, however, it fails to move me even though I know it is an excellent cartridge. If I were going to make it into a strict hunting rifle I would exchange a portion of the brass for 7mm-08 Lapua and make it a Short Action Sporter... I'd say .30-06', however, it fails to address the "plinking" part of the equation and it bores me to tears. I have .308 Winchesters & .300 Winchester Magnums from the finest makers in the land...

The heavier 6.5mm bit is a longer range plinker thought... Remember, pile of H4350, looking to use some of that, and send 130 grain plus 6.5mm pills down range to hit steel, varmint, or merely to antagonize the neighbor's cat. Which is really a reward in itself...(grin)

Regards, Matt.


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6.5-06?

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Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
6.5-06?

DF


IMO this is the answer.

Should feed slick as a whistle, lots of available quality brass, virtually duplicates the 6.5-284, what more could one ask for.

drover


223 Rem, my favorite cartridge - you can't argue with truckloads of dead PD's and gophers.

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Guys,
I appreciate it, however, just a few points to consider:

1. I HATE case forming... Neck turning and case neck donuts rank right up there with Obama and AZZ Cancer as far as I am concerned. Neck and neck...

2. Lapua brass out of a box and ready to load is a beautiful thing in my world...

3. .308 Winchester will feed slick as a whistle in an 06' action... As will it's stable mates.

4. Big pile Hodgdon H4350 Extreme... Needs to be burnt in 37 to 45 grain increments. Long slippery pointy Berger bullets. Big heap magazine clearance.

5. 6.5-284 and 6.5-06' are throat eroding in the volume I enjoy shooting on the farm... 6.5x47L is not. I can see we are going to have an an uphill battle.

I feel a Stiller Tac 30 A/W and maybe a Predator coming into the picture... You are not going to allow me to mix the superlative 6.5x47L and a Pre-64 70. I knew there would be much resistance...(laughing)

Maybe I'll build one into a 9.3x62mm. That will certainly fill the niche that my new G Series M70 Express Action .375 H&H Echols Legend Build will not do...(Laughing and yet serious) My second full custom .375H&H Magnum project. Hoping to fix the issues with the first one..

Regards, Matt.


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6.5 X 55


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Forget the build and spend your time and $$ shooting squirrels?

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Originally Posted by 260Remguy
Forget the build and spend your time and $$ shooting squirrels?


I am getting there... Should have known. Winchester had weird luck with the .264 bore as well...

Regards, Matt.


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Originally Posted by Brad
6.5 X 55


Brad,
Any more of that out of you and I'll plant one of those Burris laser range finding scopes in your pickup. You'll be outed and ruined for life as arbiter of good taste and minimalism. Keep pushing the Swede...(grin)

As a FWIW D'arcy built a .260 Remington Legend a couple of years back...

I'm going to build a 6.5x47 Lapua on something shortly... I may call D'arcy tomorrow and see what he has for shrike stocks. Thinking Sunny Hill bottom metal and a Stiller Predator. Maybe a trued Remington...

Regards, Matt.


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Matt,
I think your onto something with a 9.3x62 on the M70 and a Stiller 6.5x47.
smile


Originally Posted by Judman
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Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
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I agree with Dirtfarmer on the 6.5-06....

I have had two of them and have not had any problems with forming brass or burning out throats. Forming brass was as simple as running the parent case through the 6.5-06 sizing die and start shooting.

Sounds like you are pretty well set on the 260. If that is the case (no pun intended), I would talk to the gunsmith doing the chambering and go from there. He can tell you what you need to do as far as the magazine, throating, ect, to make things work smoothly. Then let him do it.

One thing I would do for sure, no matter what cartridge you decide to use, is make it with a sporter contour barrel. No flies on turning down that Bartlein 5R down to a sporter contour to fit the Legend stock....

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Years ago before I know any better I pulled the magazine guts from a pre 64 257 Roberts so it could be loaded to 3" OAL. I loaded it with bullets from 87 to 120 gr and mostly used it on New England woodchucks, crows and foxes when offered up.

It always shot well and even though the cartridge was short for the magazine,function was always perfect.

What I'm getting at is that Matt could do the 260, seat bullets as far out as he liked and the fit will be fine. Might have to check feeding as the rails on pre 64 308 actions are NOT exactly the same as those on the 30/06 actions. I found this out the hard way converting a 308 action to 270 one time.

That said I bet the 260 would work OK.

I just did something similar in 6.5 Creedmoor on a short Rem 700,25" #3 fluted SS Benchmark,bedded by Alex Sitman in an Echols Shrike, Edge fill, with Sunny Hill BM. Alex finished it up this week. I should see it soon.

Guess I built it with the same intent as Matt. Sounds like a fun rifle.




The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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I agree with you Bob...

The 260 would be just fine, especially when it is what Matt wants. Let the gunsmith know what he wants and turn him loose. Nothing wrong with the cartridge on a pre-64 action doing what he wants with seating and then throating appropriately...

Back in the days when I needed to have a 257 AI or two, I had Ron Lampert put one together on a pre-64 that started life as a 30-06. It worked just fine. I would expect the same thing would hold true making a 260!!

It would be a fun rifle with pleasant recoil....

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I can't fathom not doing the longer 6.5x55 on a LA pre-64. It begs for the round, especially given the fine Lapua brass. I'd absolutely do a Roberts on the pre-64. Due to SAAMI's (Remington's) silly throating, bullets can be seated out to make a 3"+ cartridge... modern SA's on the pre-64 action are just "wrong"... it's a fine, classic action that needs a fine, classic cartridge.

I'd sooner use a USRAC SA for a 260, which is SAAMI throated to work in a 2.840" mag box. laugh



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Bob, that sounds like a really interesting project, as I'm a .257R fan.

When you get it all put together and shoot some targets, I would love to see photos and read your report.

My .257R is on a LA M-700 and is one of the slickest feeding rifles I own. But, it was put together by master gunsmith, Ron Lampert, so I don't know if slick feeding just happened or was the result of Ron's magic. I like the way I can load longer bullets to the COAL I choose without box mag restrictions.

Like you point out, Matt would have a similar situation with the .260 in the LA M-70. It would work.

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I think Matt's in the same place that a lot of course match shooters found themselves in back in the old days....they used what they had on hand.

There were few really short actions but many shot the matches with a 308. I can still see a bunch of match rifles built on 30/06 length pre 64 actions.

An old pal, Bernie F,was an engineer,accomplished match shooter and did some articles for Precision Shooting. His two Palma guns were 308's on pre war 30/06 actions. Between them he told me he had close to 200,000 rounds through the pair of them.




The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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DF- I would think Ron had something to do with it....

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MM: It might not be ideal but I bet it will work for the purpose! wink




The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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You got that right Bob!!

Especially when it is what Matt wants. I know if that is what I wanted, that is what I would do to!!

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Originally Posted by Matt in Virginia
Guys,
I appreciate it, however, just a few points to consider:

1. I HATE case forming... Neck turning and case neck donuts rank right up there with Obama and AZZ Cancer as far as I am concerned. Neck and neck...

2. Lapua brass out of a box and ready to load is a beautiful thing in my world...

3. .308 Winchester will feed slick as a whistle in an 06' action... As will it's stable mates.

4. Big pile Hodgdon H4350 Extreme... Needs to be burnt in 37 to 45 grain increments. Long slippery pointy Berger bullets. Big heap magazine clearance.

5. 6.5-284 and 6.5-06' are throat eroding in the volume I enjoy shooting on the farm... 6.5x47L is not. I can see we are going to have an an uphill battle.

I feel a Stiller Tac 30 A/W and maybe a Predator coming into the picture... You are not going to allow me to mix the superlative 6.5x47L and a Pre-64 70. I knew there would be much resistance...(laughing)

Maybe I'll build one into a 9.3x62mm. That will certainly fill the niche that my new G Series M70 Express Action .375 H&H Echols Legend Build will not do...(Laughing and yet serious) My second full custom .375H&H Magnum project. Hoping to fix the issues with the first one..

Regards, Matt.


Sounds like you know everything and have everything. Why don't you just post pictures of your pretty pre 64 when done with it..... Who's going to put it together for you? Oh by the way, keep laughing. I could care the fu ck less. Don't listen to peoples suggestions here either and laugh away...


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Originally Posted by BobinNH

I just did something similar in 6.5 Creedmoor on a short Rem 700,25" #3 fluted SS Benchmark,bedded by Alex Sitman in an Echols Shrike, Edge fill, with Sunny Hill BM. Alex finished it up this week. I should see it soon.

Guess I built it with the same intent as Matt. Sounds like a fun rifle.


Bob,
I was talking to Alex Sitman the other day about finishing an Echols Legend. He was working on your rifle and telling me how much he liked it... I don't know how much he will like the blank without the bolt cutout. That said his prices were very reasonable and he seems to genuinely like the Shrike. Funny you posted this... I called D'arcy over an hour ago to see what was left from last weeks Shrike delivery. Change the Creedmoor to the 6.5x47 Lapua and we have the SAME idea... Sunny Hill BM and all. Have a stainless Remington, however, Jerry Stiller wants me to try a Predator and the price is really right..

Would LOVE to see some pictures of your new rifle when you get it back... He truly did go on at length about how much he liked the pattern. Small world.

Regards, Matt.


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Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Sounds like you know everything and have everything. Why don't you just post pictures of your pretty pre 64 when done with it..... Who's going to put it together for you? Oh by the way, keep laughing. I could care the fu ck less. Don't listen to peoples suggestions here either and laugh away...


BSA,
My (laughing) is in good humor or that is what I intend it to be... I got a little off bubble of the Gentlemanly side with a few of those points, however, they were intended again in humor. I think you read me wrong...

I apologize to anyone who feels that I was anything less than respectful to them. I have some folks here I have known for years and I tend to jibe with them a bit. I am usually quite stuck up and painful to communicate with... Maybe I should return to that smile

Apologies all around. Especially to Brad. That was a low comment about the laser range finding Burris. If that is his choice that is his choice and I will respect it as I respect him... laugh

Regards, Matt.

Last edited by Matt in Virginia; 02/11/16.

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Matt, no apology needed for me (I missed your funny Burris post, I was reading and responding on a dang iphone driving back from Jackson, WY).

You and I have been friends a long time... Larry (BSA1917) is just a cranky dude. laugh



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6.5-06 and a 9.3x62 in the Echols with the bigger channel.

Rem KS contour or FW for the 6.5.


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And just cause' Darcy built a LA 260 doesn't mean he wasn't holding his nose doing so... grin


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With those actions and stocks.
I'd be thinking hunting rifles.
Pre 64s should be turned into big game hunting rifles.
A 270 WCF and a 375 H&H type of thing.
For plinking?
I'd pick up a PTG M700 with the bolt that has a small firing pin hole.And run a 6.5 x47, creed, or the straight up 260.
I know im spending your money.
But you asked..

dave


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Originally Posted by dave7mm
With those actions and stocks.
I'd be thinking hunting rifles.
Pre 64s should be turned into big game hunting rifles.
A 270 WCF and a 375 H&H type of thing.
For plinking?
I'd pick up a PTG M700 with the bolt that has a small firing pin hole.And run a 6.5 x47, creed, or the straight up 260.
I know im spending your money.
But you asked..

dave


^this


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Would also add, the Echols stock, as others have noted, requires a minimum no.2 contour that should be a minimum of 23" long.

Just a thought...


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Brad,
I must admit the apology to you was in jest. It was one of those coming to terms with a homosexual type apologies you make to out someone as joke...(truly laughing now) Granted outing a Burris Laser Scope user is not really a joking matter. Guy took his own life in Winetka last year when s Burris joke turned tragic. He committed suicide due to carbon monoxide inhalation... No matter how bad the muffler of his Gremlin burned his lips he just kept going back for more until his mother backed over him on Krispy Kreme run. Damned kids and their sick jokes...

Bob,
I've shot a couple 06' turned to wanna be .308s and they worked, however, I should have known they were not ideal. Each case design had it's own specific feed rails.. That said I've felt some across the course rifles, as you referred to, that would make you wonder. That said with a copy of Roger Rule's Rifleman's Rifle, and Schwing's Model 21 tome set atop my custom lecturn that holds my copy of the OED, you would think I'd know some of that... You are one of the sharpest Pre-64 guys I've come across. I have a couple of your responses from 2011 bookmarked on the topic. Impressive Sir. You should be a teaching Riflesmith instead of the duds we had at CST. How D'arcy could have recommended that place to me I will never know. No one knew anything about timing a safety or any of the items that he or David Miller had mentioned. I of course had Miller's book as a text, however, it was deep to extricate a lesson plan from the pictures alone... I hope D'arcy writes something similar down the road.

I think your rifle is just about ideal for my purposes... I just have a desire to try the 6.5x47 Lapua... I've talked to not one person who did not love it...

Gentlemen,
Thank you for your input...

Regards, Matt Garrett
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Originally Posted by Brad
Originally Posted by dave7mm
With those actions and stocks.
I'd be thinking hunting rifles.
Pre 64s should be turned into big game hunting rifles.
A 270 WCF and a 375 H&H type of thing.
For plinking?
I'd pick up a PTG M700 with the bolt that has a small firing pin hole.And run a 6.5 x47, creed, or the straight up 260.
I know im spending your money.
But you asked..

dave


^this


Guys,
I read you... I've dropped the Pre-64 idea. Will leave them for another day.

Dave,
I've heard Pacific screwed a lot of those receivers up on the benchrest forums. Can't find a particular train wreck, however, everyone talks knowingly about something wrong with their machining. I came THAT close to buying a couple Christmas before last when they were $499 with a 1 piece bolt trued. Nobody I have talked to likes the product.

I've got an in with Stiller and may try his Predator as long as it has a one piece bolt. I'd prefer a blueprinted Remington to be honest. That said by the time I buy a one piece PTG bolt I am in the Predator's price range.

Dunno. Think I am going to try a Shrike... Three contour at least and 23" minimum? That is fine. Will be stainless and stout but not over heavy.

Regards, Matt.


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Originally Posted by Brad
Would also add, the Echols stock, as others have noted, requires a minimum no.2 contour that should be a minimum of 23" long.

Just a thought...


Good point.

Trade one of the legends for a Sako hunter in edge fill set up for a smallish contour 6.5 barrel.


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I was going to post this much earlier. It is posted now as simply a fwiw and gives and idea of where I am coming from on this rifle...

Originally Posted by mmgravy
I agree with Dirtfarmer on the 6.5-06....

I have had two of them and have not had any problems with forming brass or burning out throats. Forming brass was as simple as running the parent case through the 6.5-06 sizing die and start shooting.

Sounds like you are pretty well set on the 260. If that is the case (no pun intended), I would talk to the gunsmith doing the chambering and go from there. He can tell you what you need to do as far as the magazine, throating, ect, to make things work smoothly. Then let him do it.

One thing I would do for sure, no matter what cartridge you decide to use, is make it with a sporter contour barrel. No flies on turning down that Bartlein 5R down to a sporter contour to fit the Legend stock....


fwiw & imho,
Thank you for the input...

1. Lapua brass out of the box...

2. I don't want a necked down 06' case with a 6.5mm projectile in it. I was thinking of something fairly mild and friendly to repeated strings of fire. You fill an 06' case with powder and you will just about duplicate 6.5x284 levels of throat erosion. I'm far from an expert, however, I know guys who have multiple 6.5x284 Barrels chambered in a season and shoot through them after finding which one shoots best(whether that be the agg, speed, whatever). This, again, is not what I am looking for...

I see, know, and talk to guys who are shooting the ever living dickens out of the 6.5mms bore and NONE of them are working on an 06' case. If I wanted a 6.5x284 I would build one, however, even the guys I know who shoot them recommended a 6.5x47 Lapua unless you want to chamber barrels in threes or HAD TO HAVE the performance. As I labored to say in the beginning this was supposed to be a fun gun... It is likely to be short and it likely to be suppressed.

If you have never run a 6.5 CM, 6.5x47L, etc.. this whole thing may be greek... They have a modest report, are fuel efficient, are ballistically amazing, and are a lot of fun in a modest amount of gun...

It is kind of like the day my brother shot his 24" .270 Winchester with it's balls to the wall load and I shot along side him with my 22" Broughton 5C 7mm-08 with a moderate 140 grain load that I was trying to get shooting. One rifle GA Precision hosed me on... At any rate my short action 7mm-08 shooting 140s and his hot 270 load wound up dropping almost IDENTICALLY at 336 yards The 7mm-08 was actually a touch flatter. It was one of those double takes for both of us... My load was not at all hot and his was the product of everything that Barsness had printed on the .270 in the previous 20 years... It was an eye opener.

I have and love Magnums... Thinking of building a set of Winchester G Series 70s in .257, .300, and .375 Weatherby Magnums by Mark Penrod and stocking them in Echols Legend Stocks with D'arcy's Bottom Metal and Duane Wiebe's XRM 4 round down Classic 4 round magnum magazine. All built on early G Series Winchester Classic Receivers. I just acquired the G Series M70 CM .375 H&H built on the Express Action just the other day. The .257 Weatherby is to be built on a early G Series Super Grade that is currently in .300 Winchester Magnum with a 26" tube. It will retain that if I go .257 Roy... The only G Series Receiver I don't have is the one for the .300 Weatherby. That said I am looking... This set with Mark's pricing will likely take 3-5 years for completion and run $35,000 without a scope in sight... All barrels will likely be Krieger and the most difficult issue to answer is going to be barrel contours...

The SANE option to the above is JUST AS EXPENSIVE, however, it will be chambered in a 23" .270 Winchester, a 25" Heavier Senderoesque .300 Winchester Magnum, and the Express Action will simply be heavily refined and remain a .375 H&H. This is a little easier to get together, however, good .300 WM and .375 H&H Brass is not a picnic to find. Weatherby brass is high but available. I've always liked the thought of the .257, .300, and .375 Weatherbys but in tasteful Winchester Echols Legend Wrappings... Life is short I already have a nice .270, many .300s, and a .375 H&H... The .375 Weatherby in particular has always interested me...

All that said I am not at all looking for a big bellowing case for this rifle. Again something ultra accurate, well mannered, fuel efficient, easy on brass, easy to suppress, and will leave me picking up pieces of 6.5x47 Lapua brass from all over the cab of my F350 Diesel Lariat Crew Cab. I intend to kill coypus, coyote, fox, feral cats, and generally anything in need of a bullet from the captain's chair that gives me a shot... AR500 will receive no mercy...(grin)

I think, with your help, I just answered my own question...

Thank you all for your input...

Best Regards, Matt.

Btw, Guys you really did help me to make up my mind...


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Originally Posted by Matt in Virginia
Originally Posted by BobinNH

I just did something similar in 6.5 Creedmoor on a short Rem 700,25" #3 fluted SS Benchmark,bedded by Alex Sitman in an Echols Shrike, Edge fill, with Sunny Hill BM. Alex finished it up this week. I should see it soon.

Guess I built it with the same intent as Matt. Sounds like a fun rifle.


Bob,
I was talking to Alex Sitman the other day about finishing an Echols Legend. He was working on your rifle and telling me how much he liked it... I don't know how much he will like the blank without the bolt cutout. That said his prices were very reasonable and he seems to genuinely like the Shrike. Funny you posted this... I called D'arcy over an hour ago to see what was left from last weeks Shrike delivery. Change the Creedmoor to the 6.5x47 Lapua and we have the SAME idea... Sunny Hill BM and all. Have a stainless Remington, however, Jerry Stiller wants me to try a Predator and the price is really right..

Would LOVE to see some pictures of your new rifle when you get it back... He truly did go on at length about how much he liked the pattern. Small world.

Regards, Matt.



Thanks Matt I am lathered to see it myself!

I will try to get some pictures up when it arrives. It will not be painted, but Alex primed it and I may go full Philistine on this and leave it naked. grin

This stock was scheduled for a 6.5 Creed to be built for DArcy's daughter,but he insisted I take it as he would not get to the rifle for a year or so. As I recall Alex said the bolt cut out had to be done on mine,so I think the stock came that way.Alex also added pad and studs for me

I have never had Alex do a bedding job;my buddy RinB on here is the one from whom I bought the rifle, already on its way to Alex and by reputation he is one of the best.I understand he does a lot of match rifles,and is very meticulous.

I would confirm his pricing seems very reasonable.


Thanks for the comments on the pre 64's.... smile I have had a few and am anal about rifle function,so notice small details. If a rifle does not function well I generally never get to the accuracy part of the equation,the only reason I know a mere smidgeon about the topic. Mostly I can't teach anyone much of anything but I do appreciate the comments. smile

On the function issue, I handled a Czech ZG47 this past fall. Chambered for the 7x57. The owner gave me dummies to play with and run through the rifle and it was "Oh....MY- NICE!" wink




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Bob,
I may have waited to long on the Shrike. Darcy told me they were coming in at the end of the week and I was only interested in G Series 70s. Hopefully he has a standard fill SA700 with Sunny Hill Bottom Metal. I even thought about sending the receiver to Hart for barreling and receiver truing then to Alex for bedding. You know it's funny... He said it was too nice of a sock to paint with the checkering cut into it... Will talk to D'arcy early today hopefully... Remember the PICTURES....(grin)

Regards, Matt


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Matt almost forget and FYI....I bought the Sunny Hill unit directly from them and sent it to Alex. They had one 700 SA alloy unit remaining at the time but I am sure that has changed.

Like the rifle, I have yet to see any of this other than the stock,which DArcy sent to me directly.

They come out nice painted of course, but not sure I want to wait to have it done. I need to shoot this thing!




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So far, I have at one time or another owned or built rifles in 6.5-06, 6.5-284, 6.5x55, 6.5 Rem Mag,, 260 and 6.5 Creed so this whole 6.5 thing is not greek to me. Nor are custom rifles. I have not run a 6.5x47 but have thought long and hard about the cartridge.

Now with a much clearer picture of direction, criteria, platform and end product, it sounds like the 260 brass will be replaced with 6.5x47 brass....


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Originally Posted by mmgravy

Now with a much clearer picture of direction, criteria, platform and end product, it sounds like the 260 brass will be replaced with 6.5x47 brass....


Bob,
I will give them a call today. I doubt I will go alloy... Technically it will be an alloy, however, it will be sold as C/M or SS...;-). All depends on Darcy's Shrike count. We talked for an hour last week and he asked me if I wanted one as they were coming in "Friday" and like a dolt I passed. One of those few times he was really in a talkative mood and damned if I didn't have to be the one to break it off. Had no choice but I HAD to go and I'm talking to the wizard...

gravy,
I honestly think between 6.5x47 Lapua & 6.5 CM they very well MAY replace the .260 Remington. When I bought the 1K lot, 5 years ago, it was hottest item out... That said given bullet availability and magazine constraints the long .260 Rem Case is less than ideal.

That said when you look at which 6.5mm Lapua cases are most often sold out.... They are the 6.5x47 Lapua & the .260 Remington.... Further Bryan Litz choose the .260 Remington to add to the ABM line of Cartridges so I would not put the nail in the .260 Remington's Coffin Lid quite yet. Tis just the 6.5x47 Lapua is just about perfection for it's size, and it is a click behind both the .260 and the CM. It is kind of like being able to buy a Porsche for the same thing as you can buy a Camaro. Everything was worked out by the Swiss Design Team and they've had ten years to work the kinks out. Besides I have a gross ton of components. I am actually waiting on 48 more pounds of H4350 that came available in 8 pound containers the other day at $168 per... Which has been RARE to say the least... Mid South HAD 19 total and started by buying 12 8 pounders, as they've been impossible to find, however, I realized that was a part of the reason no else could find any so I called up and cut the order in half...

Good lord I digress again...

Best Regards, Matt.

The .260 is not dead quite yet...

http://www.buyabmammo.com/260-Rem-130-AR-Hybrids-Shot-1-Mile_b_13.html





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6.5-.284, Lapua brass, long action, 140's @2950.....


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Originally Posted by scenarshooter
6.5-.284, Lapua brass, long action, 140's @2950.....

That's what I did, on a pre-64, even has Bordens bumps. Don't see many pre-64's with Borden's bumps. Feeds well, although that took some tweaking.

Started with Vv N-165 but went to RL-17. Accuracy almost as good and it'll shoot a solid 3,000 fps. It can consitently group under 2" at 400 yds. with 140 VLD Hunting. I just can't keep up with it every time. I'm the biggest variable, not as consistent as the gun... cry

26" Kreiger, Jewell trigger, I need to see what it will do with 139 gr. Scenars. Just haven't, as it does so well with Bergers. And, of course, there are other projects... wink

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Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Feeds well, although that took some tweaking.


And that, my friends, is the hardly discussed bugaboo of the 284 and it's offspring... feeding! Often times they absolutely refuse to feed well.

Not a can of worms I'd personally open, as there are so many other cases that do essentially the same.


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Yeah, had to mill the follower, thinning the rib to better accommodate the fatter case.

Makes the 6.5-06 a viable option. This round was the rage when I built this gun. I did mention 6.5-06 in an earlier post.

The '06 neck may be a tad longer, which theoretically may result in less throat erosion. Wouldn't set my watch on that,,, laugh

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My solution to this sort of issue took me a few years to come to.

LR 98 Steyr = 6.5x55 in Karnis-refined & wood-upgraded Boyds JRS Classic using an Apex rifles take-off #2 (that'll end up my youngest son's first hunting rifle)

LR 98 & Douglas #2 both purchased here CHEAP + free Mark X take-off stock = .260 Rem for plinking

Inexpensive Remington-built 03-A3 + Herters stock = 6.5-06 with all the tweaks (S&Ks, custom stock treatment, red pad, plating of all steel, great hunting rifle)

I think that first one is the best handling rifle, the middle is most fun to shoot, and the end will be a real laser.

My gunsmith has always told me that CRFs & .284-based cartridges can be a real challenge to get feeding properly, though in his words "anything is possible if you're willing to invest the capital" smile !

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Originally Posted by scenarshooter
6.5-.284, Lapua brass, long action, 140's @2950.....


6.5x47 Lapua brass,short action, 140g Berger LRBT,VV 550.
2850fps all day long.
No fuss no muss and very little to no trimming.
We run strings of shots and the barrels get pretty hot.It cant be helped.Bartlien 5R barrels will shoot competitively at a 1000 yards to about 2000 2400 rounds.
They will still shoot past this round count, but they foul out before you can get done with a match.
So they get replaced..
dave


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Originally Posted by Matt in Virginia

Thoughts guys?


People just love their short case .358wins on pre64 long actions, so I don't see an issue with a pre64 .260rem
Wouldn't hesitate if thats what you really want.


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Stamen,
Indeed... Had to pull that post for editing. Will have her back up shortly. No doubt it is riveting to one an all... Laughing just not loud enough to wake anyone up...:-)

Best Regards, Matt.


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Gentlemen,
I was honored to find an e-mail from Darcy last night with a few photos mentioning he had read my mental muddling on this thread... His commentary in short:

He said there was nothing wrong with a .260 Remington on a 70 WITH the proper magazine. The one he built for his daughter and featured a custom stainless 3" mag and built on a G series .257 Roberts length(3") SA if memory serves. He also gave me permission to post the following pictures of that magazine and build photos. Dunno as I have them in order:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Brad,
You can go back to feeling smug that he heartily recommended the 6.5x55 in the Pre-64 06' based 70 as you repeatedly said... No doubt we will have to call you Sir and bow for the foreseeable future...(grin)

Bob,
He confirmed feeding difficulties with using straight 260s seated at the rear of the of the 06' Magazine. As you had said earlier...

fwiw & imho
I would just like to thank D'arcy for taking the time to respond to this thread and participate when he no doubt has more paying business to take care of than he can possibly handle. I always feel like I am robbing his time. Though I am honored by his participation...

You know he did say something in the e-mail about me building the magazine if I could and frankly I've been thinking about little else for the last 12-15 hours. I can't see around that magazine to note a tig joint, however, one must be there you would think. I've been thinking about a very small metal brake and working with annealing stainless and then reheat treating afterward. That is likely many a month and thousands of dollars in gear and consumables to achieve anything approaching that... That said maybe I ought to just ask Darcy...

I should not the follower is fully custom as well. Should have mentioned that earlier...

Best Regards, Matt Garrett.
Chesapeake, Virginia.


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Matt I have one of DArcy's boxes in my 7mm Mashburn Super,and follower as well. Function is flawless.

I like the photos. That Echols stock with the bare bones no paint finish grows on me by the second. I like it a lot and if my stock looks as good as that, it ain't getting painted.

So are you going to use the box in a pre 64 or are you going to seek a short M70 Classic for the project? smile


Decisions...decisions.. cry

Last edited by BobinNH; 02/13/16.



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The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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I'm very confused. I thought D'Arcy built the .260 Rem using a model 700 action. Do you have a picture of the finished rifle he built for his daughter? He must have recently completed the Model 70 build.

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Originally Posted by Sakohunter264
I'm very confused. I thought D'Arcy built the .260 Rem using a model 700 action. Do you have a picture of the finished rifle he built for his daughter? He must have recently completed the Model 70 build.


I think her present rifle is what DArcy described to me as a "Legend",which to me means it's a M70.

Another rifle is in the works and as I recall,it was to be either a Creedmoor or a 260,using a Rem action or clone, because he intended to use a Shrike.




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Bob,
The Kevlar look IS fetching though I have no use for it... A kevlar reinforced McMillan 40X stock is what gave me invasive tinnitus. Stock was so stiff it transferred the vibration of the firing pin fall to my jaw bone and into my inner ear. It has cost enough to buy a 4 rifle Legend set to say nothing of the misery. A simple Eagle stock pack would have taken care of the problem. What really makes me less than fond of Kelly McMillan is that he knew that was a problem and years later told me he would include a fifty cent piece of foam to tape to the cheekpiece if the customer wanted it. I had a lawyer, and a Harvard Lawyer who was as sharp as a my favorite Custom Sutton Medium Hunter... That said they were a big part of defending our nation, supporting our pastime, and I would not allow him to pursue it....

[Linked Image] Said Sutton Medium Hunter.. I prefer elephant ivory. Had some gifted to me from a tusker taken in Rhodesia in 62'. The expats are a lovely older couple whom I think the world of... He wants me to make two sets of ivory grips for a couple old russian revolvers and I want to send it to Nutmeg sports and pay to have 5 sets of 1911 grips and at least a pair of SAA grip(s) made as well as his grips made. That said he wants me to do it and not depend on professionals...(color me nervous)

You know I would not pay over $500 to borrow your Washburn Super Box & Follower for a week. I have the extra long action boxes covered, however, the standardard short actions elude me and I have yet to find a Legend for sale that was not already sold by the time I got to it. I would just like to understand the geometry of the box and know how much wider such a box would have to go. The old Mauser formula that Mr. Blackburn went by did not exactly cover everything according to some in the know. What I need to do is ask D'arcy if I can rent or buy one short the $16K typical fee.... laugh

Regards, Matt.

Last edited by Matt in Virginia; 02/14/16.

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Matt the light stiff stocks do have a minor downside and you nailed it...they do transmit more of the recoil to your face. Not a biggie in hunting of course but in a high volume shooting spree you feel it.

Like I always say it isn't shoulder thump that's the concern in recoil;it's the constant slap in the face. Before someone says "stock design", yeah I know all about it. ... grin It still isn't a cure all.

Not a big deal for the younger guys with more rubbery heads,but the repeated whacks to the cheek are not fun as you age.

My solution is a wraparound pad over the comb for group shooting at the range. Velcro allows removal at will. I have become more sensitive to this as I age and have no intentions of putting up with the nonsense. Protection is a good thing and this eliminates concerns.




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Originally Posted by BobinNH
Originally Posted by Sakohunter264
I'm very confused. I thought D'Arcy built the .260 Rem using a model 700 action. Do you have a picture of the finished rifle he built for his daughter? He must have recently completed the Model 70 build.


I think her present rifle is what DArcy described to me as a "Legend",which to me means it's a M70.

Another rifle is in the works and as I recall,it was to be either a Creedmoor or a 260,using a Rem action or clone, because he intended to use a Shrike.


Fwiw,
I think she is a very lucky little lady. Though I think she helps her dad from the range pictures on his blog. Seems to be a good shot to boot. I'd build my own daughter just about anything she wanter were I in his position. Wonderful to have a child, and a girl at that, who is interested in rifles and hunting...

It reminds me, NOT AT ALL to draw parallels, of a young lady who hunted ducks and geese on one of two exclusive & very private farms on Virginia's Easter Shore. Her father has THE 40 story high rise in the area... At any rate I remember her getting tired and deciding to walk back to the house. She unloaded her shotgun and layed it up against the wall in the front facing open pit blind as it was too heavy to carry all the way back to the barn and manor house. I walked over to find it was a KRIEGHOFF K-80 with an engraving pattern I have never seen before and a light coating of rust dust all over the blueing. Ducks be damned, I put my Winchester 21 Heavy Duck down, my first that I did not keep (stupid, stupid), and I pulled an ever present bottle of Clenzoil and and a clean rag from my bag and began to clean the outside of the gun and forend iron... I scrubbed and scrubbed but the light rust was too deep... It was not JUST a K-80 but a CUSTOM engraved K-80 and the entire thing just blew me away. I suppose if you place no value on something it has no value other than utilitarian. I put it sadly back in the corner with a heavy coat of the green stuff on wood and metal and shook my head... I digress... THIS HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH DARCY'S DAUGHTER. Just an interesting story of very different young ladies and expensive guns... I've followed her progress on his blog and something tells me she is FAR DIFFERENT than the Krieghoff Abuser... That was sad.

Best Regards, Matt.


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Matt an example of "one". M70 7 Rem Mag with Borden RR and the cheater comb pad to protect my kisser during range sessions. smile


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Bob,
You know I have thought of bringing to market Lammy Suede cheek pads that would attach to the stock via velcro and STAY on the stock until you cleaned it. It would do away with ALL of the bulk and only leave a .250" or so pad shaped to fit the shadow line cheekpiece and over the stock line. The other thing it would do is do away with any sound a three day beard makes when run over a stock on a short shot...

I've had this idea for a good while and may approach a friend to make it happen. I'll start with the Legend with Darcy's permission. The kicker is the Lammy Suede is expensive and you have to take a huge order to buy it... That said I believe it would move. I could be wrong. Thoughts?

Regards, Matt.


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You do run into nice expensive guns in the damnedest places..... grin

The knife is art work!!!




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The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Bob,
Damn you are fast... Essentially like that but cut to fit the cheekpiece and shadow line exactly...

Regards, Matt.


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That pad moves,too after a couple of shots.Just grab it and drag it back in place.Stretchy stuff is good.

Your suggestion for the suede would be nicer,and classier, than my solution but it's clear to me you are more sophisticated and have better taste than I do...I am kind of a bum... grin




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The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Bob,
I appreciate the kind words on the design, however, we'll have to agree to disagree on the taste and bum bit...;-) Even though you are running a Super Chicken on that rifle... Great scope for the money. Only scope for THAT money...

It would be awfully stock specific, however, I see it as a natural progression. The Legend Stock would be the ideal starting point. Anyone who likes that handle would not bat an eye at the cost if they liked/loved the function. In truth they wear out or more accurately get clogged with facial oils and such and NEED to be replaced. I am going to see about pursuing this idea and don't be surprised if you find yourself a field tester. I value your opinion highly...

Regards, Matt.


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Originally Posted by BobinNH

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Bob, with knobs? grin

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MM: I don't say much.....but Im full of surprises. grin




Matt: Legend on the Mashburn. Built by Gene Simillion. No cheater pad needed this day.... wink

Of course I will be happy to test and thanks!!




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Speaking of Echols, here's a post my friend Chuck Nelson put up on AR a couple years back about D'Arcy's desert sheep hunt.

He ended up killing it with his wife's M77 6.5-06 and 6X Leupold...

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&f=300106493&m=7611090641


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Brad,
Thanks for bringing that back up. Interesting in the extreme. Whatever happened to Chuck? I used to enjoy talking to him...

How he gets out of bed and looks folks in the eye after using a Ruger 77 says as much about Darcy's inner strength as anything I have ever heard. I intend to give him just a little grief over that the next time we talk... laugh

To live with that shame and carry on... By God you have to admire his grit...(laughing out loud now)

Regards, Matt.


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Originally Posted by BobinNH
That pad moves,too after a couple of shots.Just grab it and drag it back in place.Stretchy stuff is good.

Your suggestion for the suede would be nicer,and classier, than my solution but it's clear to me you are more sophisticated and have better taste than I do...I am kind of a bum... grin

A bum would use some blue painter's tape to keep the pad from moving. smile


He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.

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dt: I have my limits..... grin




The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Originally Posted by Brad
Speaking of Echols, here's a post my friend Chuck Nelson put up on AR a couple years back about D'Arcy's desert sheep hunt.

He ended up killing it with his wife's M77 6.5-06 and 6X Leupold...




Brad: I remember that thread.

"The cobbler's kids are never shod.." or so the saying goes!


I think Jerry Fisher's hunting rifle is a pre 64 M70 standard in 7x57 that was punched out to 7 Rem Mag years back. The problem all these skilled rifle makers have is that every time they build a rifle for themselves,someone wants to buy it,and it being how they make a living, the rifle gets sold.

I recall that Len Brownell built himself a 280...




The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Bob, I have handled Fisher's 7 Mag. Trust me, that stock doesn't feel much like it did when it left the Winchester factory! grin


Anybody who seriously concerns themselves with the adequacy of a Big 7mm for anything we hunt here short of brown bear, is a dufus. They are mostly making shidt up. Crunch! Nite-nite!

Stolen from an erudite CF member.
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Rick I can believe that! wink




The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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