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Whoops, wrong date...

I was wrong, the pistol is right, of course...

Like mine, too.

DF

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Originally Posted by frogman43
Originally Posted by AJD
Originally Posted by EvilTwin
The throats on this 45 are perfect.
[Linked Image]


Could someone please help me out with the specifics of this pistol?

The way I load nowadays, I can tell little difference between the performance of the two cartridges. My days of pushing the outer limits of are in the rvm.

So when I’m picking it is usually done because of the platform rather than the cartridge.

I do rather enjoy the S&W N frames and wish they produced more variety in 45colt, but it is what it is. So when I’m looking at DA it is usually 44mag when SA it is generally 45colt. That being said I do have a dandy 25-5 that I have owned for over 30 years and I covet mightily.

AJD



Actually, the N Frame S&W you are looking at there, owned by my friend, Jim, is an S&W 25-7 in .45 Colt. There were only 2,000 made according to my understanding. They came with came with a 5" barrel, unfluted cylinder, and were inscribed with "Model of 1987" on the side.

I have one as well, and also know of one that was mutilated and turned into a snubby, so that only leaves 1,997 possibly left in the world for you to find..... grin

Very accurate, and a pleasure to shoot with my loads of 250 RNFP at about 1,100 fps



Thanks for the response/heads-up.

I really like my 25-5 and that looks like it would be a great one to have and use. My 25-5 is a 6" and I always thought a 5" would be one to have.

Sounds like you are correct, a tough one to find.

I have a Classic 44Mag with the 5" barrel, it was a special run, IDK 20 or so years ago, but it has the full length underlug. I don't much care for the full length under-lug. So I am trying to stay away from that.

I also have a 686+ that was a stocking dealer special about 10 or so years ago. It has the 5" barrel with the short lug. I like it, IMO the way a S&W is supposed to be. I've never seen any others like it.

Last edited by AJD; 02/25/16.

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Generally, there ain't a lot that separates the two however,
Barely making it is a whole lot more satisfying than barely not making it.
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I love both Calibers and own several handguns in both .44 mag & 45 Colt.
If I didn't handload, my first choice would definitely be the .44 magnum.

But for everyday carry working here at the Ranch, I'm usually packing a Ruger Flattop in 45 Colt with 250 gr WFN cast bullets loaded to 1100 FPS.
If I'm packing one of my .44mag revolvers, it's usually loaded with a .44 special load consisting of 260 gr WFN cast bullet at about the same velocity. About 10 grains of Unique or Herco works orders with either load.

In my experience, I've found that a good hard cast lead bullet with a wide flat meplat at 1100 fps will kill anything I need to shoot at the Ranch. And that's counting up to and including 500 lb feral hogs. Although most of our hogs will go only 350 lbs or less.

JMHO, for whatever it's worth.


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Here's the above custom .45 Colt SBH with stag grips that I fitted and installed the Ruger medallion.

[Linked Image]



S&W 25-7 1989 with elk grips:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]



Reamed throats.

[Linked Image]

Last edited by Dirtfarmer; 02/25/16.
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Originally Posted by jwp475
Starting Loads....................................................Maximum Loads

Bullet Powder Grs. Vel. CUP Powder Grs. Vel. CUP
310 cast H-110 21.5 1109 24,400 H-110 23.5 1316 32,000
310 cast H 4227 21 1016 24.900 H 4227 22.5 1164 30,000
310 cast #2400 17 1013 24.400 #2400 19 1172 29,400
310 cast HS-6 12.5 994 25.000 HS-6 13.5 1043 29,800

Since we're still stuck on pressure, let's look at what that extra 6000-10,000psi actually yields you. With the .44, you can drive bullets the same sectional density (330gr .44 vs 360gr .45) 150fps faster and get a little more penetration. Or you can drive the same weight bullet (330gr .44 vs 335gr .45) at the same velocity and get a lot more penetration.

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Isn't the 45 Colt brass the limiting factor in how hot you can load your ammunition?
I thought that the 44 magnum brass was stronger.
I load my 629 with Lyman #429421 22bhn at 1200 fps from a 4 inch barrel. That seems like plenty to me.
If not I know where I can find a rifle. wink
whelennut


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Good .45Colt brass is good to at least 50-55,000psi. Dick Casull used it developing the .454. Think 260's at 2000fps.

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Originally Posted by EdM
Skipped over most of the gibberish but still stand by my original reply. Terry wants to kill Texas whitetail and hogs. Pretty simple task to ask of a sixgun.


Just don't think the noted game will know the difference. I have a 44 SBH. I want a 45 LC cause at 54...I'm still a "saturday morning western" cowboy.

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Originally Posted by whelennut
Isn't the 45 Colt brass the limiting factor in how hot you can load your ammunition?
I thought that the 44 magnum brass was stronger.
I load my 629 with Lyman #429421 22bhn at 1200 fps from a 4 inch barrel. That seems like plenty to me.
If not I know where I can find a rifle. wink
whelennut


The 45 cylinders are often oversized. That lets the brass expand more and has to be worked over more during reloading. According to John Linebaugh, that's why Elmer Keith didn't like the 45.

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Can anyone tell me why Model of 1989 was so important to S&W that they named a handgun for it?


I like to do my hunting BEFORE I pull the trigger!
There is only one kind of dead, but there are many different kinds of wounded.
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Originally Posted by akmtnrunner
Originally Posted by whelennut
Isn't the 45 Colt brass the limiting factor in how hot you can load your ammunition?
I thought that the 44 magnum brass was stronger.
I load my 629 with Lyman #429421 22bhn at 1200 fps from a 4 inch barrel. That seems like plenty to me.
If not I know where I can find a rifle. wink
whelennut


The 45 cylinders are often oversized. That lets the brass expand more and has to be worked over more during reloading. According to John Linebaugh, that's why Elmer Keith didn't like the 45.

Elmer's .45's were SAA's. If he had .45 Ruger Bisley's, etc. he may have had a different opinion.



Regarding the 1989 significance, I would also like to know the answer to that one.

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Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by akmtnrunner
Originally Posted by whelennut
Isn't the 45 Colt brass the limiting factor in how hot you can load your ammunition?
I thought that the 44 magnum brass was stronger.
I load my 629 with Lyman #429421 22bhn at 1200 fps from a 4 inch barrel. That seems like plenty to me.
If not I know where I can find a rifle. wink
whelennut


The 45 cylinders are often oversized. That lets the brass expand more and has to be worked over more during reloading. According to John Linebaugh, that's why Elmer Keith didn't like the 45.

Elmer's .45's were SAA's. If he had .45 Ruger Bisley's, etc. he may have had a different opinion.



Regarding the 1989 significance, I would also like to know the answer to that one.

DF

If Keith had not experimented with the .44Spl, which led to the .44mag, which led to the large frame Ruger single action, there never wouldn've been a .45 strong enough for "Ruger only" loads.

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this is a little off topic, but this thread made me think of it.
I have a hybred, 44special. Hibred, in that it started life as a model 28, was rebarreled to 44special, and not sure about the cylinder other than it accepts 44special.
Not that i would want to do it, but i wonder how much pressure it could accept? This was done back in the 70's i think often called a Skeeter conversion.
i cast the lyman 429421 bullet and have used in this gun but kept velocities down under 1000fps.

Last edited by RoninPhx; 02/26/16.

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It should be fine for the Keith load.

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Originally Posted by CraigC
Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by akmtnrunner
Originally Posted by whelennut
Isn't the 45 Colt brass the limiting factor in how hot you can load your ammunition?
I thought that the 44 magnum brass was stronger.
I load my 629 with Lyman #429421 22bhn at 1200 fps from a 4 inch barrel. That seems like plenty to me.
If not I know where I can find a rifle. wink
whelennut


The 45 cylinders are often oversized. That lets the brass expand more and has to be worked over more during reloading. According to John Linebaugh, that's why Elmer Keith didn't like the 45.

Elmer's .45's were SAA's. If he had .45 Ruger Bisley's, etc. he may have had a different opinion.



Regarding the 1989 significance, I would also like to know the answer to that one.

DF

If Keith had not experimented with the .44Spl, which led to the .44mag, which led to the large frame Ruger single action, there never wouldn've been a .45 strong enough for "Ruger only" loads.

Great point and very true...

DF

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Originally Posted by RoninPhx
this is a little off topic, but this thread made me think of it.
I have a hybred, 44special. Hibred, in that it started life as a model 28, was rebarreled to 44special, and not sure about the cylinder other than it accepts 44special.
Not that i would want to do it, but i wonder how much pressure it could accept? This was done back in the 70's i think often called a Skeeter conversion.
i cast the lyman 429421 bullet and have used in this gun but kept velocities down under 1000fps.


It should be at least as good, pressure wise, as the M25-2 45 ACP so 21 kpsi.


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all this talk of 45colt/44 made me pull out a model 25-5 i have. original owner let it get some spots of rust on it, which i have been working on off and on.
with that 270 grain rcbs bullet, especially in the hollowpoint configeration, i can't think of much i would run into that it couldn't handle.
I still don't think hyper velocity is all of it.
and i have handguns between 41 and 45 that will all push a 250grain something at 1000fps or over which i think in reality does it.

Last edited by RoninPhx; 02/26/16.

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When faced with this dilemma, I chose a .45 Blackhawk convertible. Since then however, I have come to the conclusion that, from a purely practical standpoint, I simply have no real world use for that much horsepower on tap.

The medium bores just seem to fit better for what I need from a handgun. There are no big bears or moose in this part of the country and I've yet to see a hog that a 170-210gr., .357-.41 caliber bullet, at reasonable speeds couldn't kill.

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Originally Posted by whelennut
Can anyone tell me why Model of 1989 was so important to S&W that they named a handgun for it?


I'm nearly sure it was a distributor run, that's all.


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Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by CraigC
Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by akmtnrunner
Originally Posted by whelennut
Isn't the 45 Colt brass the limiting factor in how hot you can load your ammunition?
I thought that the 44 magnum brass was stronger.
I load my 629 with Lyman #429421 22bhn at 1200 fps from a 4 inch barrel. That seems like plenty to me.
If not I know where I can find a rifle. wink
whelennut


The 45 cylinders are often oversized. That lets the brass expand more and has to be worked over more during reloading. According to John Linebaugh, that's why Elmer Keith didn't like the 45.

Elmer's .45's were SAA's. If he had .45 Ruger Bisley's, etc. he may have had a different opinion.



Regarding the 1989 significance, I would also like to know the answer to that one.

DF

If Keith had not experimented with the .44Spl, which led to the .44mag, which led to the large frame Ruger single action, there never wouldn've been a .45 strong enough for "Ruger only" loads.

Great point and very true...

DF


You could say the same thing if Elmer had started with the 45 Colt. Tighten the cylinder bore and strengthng the frame and there might never have been a 44 mag. Both required modifications to existing firearms.

Both are good at their job and I see little advantage of one over the other.


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