Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Predators and Varmints 221 Fireball advice.

I am toying with the idea of adding another coyote/varmint rig to the stable. looking heavily at the Fireball, under 20 grains of powder, mild report and in my opinion plenty of punch at 200 yards.

Wondering what barrel lengths, optics and loads you Furball shooters are using. Any and all advice is welcome.

CZ 527 in synthetic stock. 40 or 50 grain VMax. CCI Small Rifle. Lil' Gun. Hard to go wrong with that combo. Love mine.

Thanks CrowRifle. What kind of optic are you running?

I was thinking either a fixed 4x or 6x or possibly a 2-7x of some type.

My 221 fb is a Sako A1 action custom gun. It has a 24" barrel. I shoot 40 grain ballistic tips over Lil Gun powder.
It is scoped with a Leupold 4-12X A/O. That's more scope than needed in most cases.
It has killed few called coyotes.

10gaugemag: I have a pair of Varmint Rifles in caliber 221 Remington Fireball.
I love them both!
One is a factory stock Kimber of Oregon Ultra-Varmint Model.
This model has a semi-heavy, stainless, 24" barrel.
I have a straight 12 power Leupold scope on it and it is VERY accurate indeed.
This Rifle prefers the 40 grain Berger hollow-points.
I have killed Coyotes with this Rifle but I mostly Hunt Ground Squirrels and Prairie Dogs with it.
Indeed the mild recoil, mild report, mild barrel heating and mild powder charges are all important attributes of this Rifle and the 221 Remington Fireball cartridge.
My other 221 Remington Fireball is a plain Jane Remington 700 Classic - again with a 24" barrel of sporter weight.
I have a Leupold 4x12 variable scope on this rig and it shoots extremely well for a sporter weight barreled Rifle!
This Rifle prefers the Nosler 40 grain Ballistic Tips.
To tell the truth I am secretly searching for another Remington 700 Classic in 221 Remington Fireball to add to my arsenal - I LOVE this Rifle.
Brass life of the 221 Fireball is FOREVER, apparently.
Speaking of 221 Remington Fireball Rifles my old friend Dr. (Dentist) Robert Mitchell of the Puget Sound country about 18 years ago convinced the Custom Shop at Remington, somehow, to build him a Remington 40XB-KS in caliber 221 Remington Fireball.
His Rifle had a 27 1/4"barrel and was a single shot.
Doc Mitchell let me shoot it one dead calm February morning there at the Seattle range.
I tell you, shooting THAT Rifle was just an amazing and rewarding experience!
I won't even bother telling you how small the groups were I shot with it that morning - you might not believe me.
Let it suffice to say - the 221 Remington Fireball IS an inherently accurate cartridge!
I say you should GO for the Fireball Rifle idea.
Don't over-look the kind of rare Remington 700 Classics in 221 Fireball as I have two friends that also own them and they both shoot very well.
Good luck to you.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I have a Rem 700 LVSF which I had cerakoted in black...put in a McMillan Classic and after market trigger...Talley Lights and a VX2 3x9 wide duplex...I shoot 40gr Sierra HPs over AA 1680...very accurate and fast...works well on called yotes and cats...I have a few custom rifles, but catch myself with this one more than the others... [img:right]http://[/img]

I have the Remington 700 laminated stock version - forget the model number. It has a nikon 6.5-20X. I use 40gr Vmax and Ballistic tip over RL7. I'll switch to lil gun when I use up my current bottle of RL7. Shoots great. I use it for ground squirrels here in Idaho.

I like it as you can see the impact through the recoil. If I had to have one varmint rifle, the 221 would be it.

I've heard talk around my clubs varmint match that the 221 is really close to a downsized ppc, no idea how true that is. I had a 527 sporter for a short time prior to moving to the 17 rem. After a case head rupture in my primary deer rifle the day before season, the 221 was pressed into service. A 7 point hot on a doe at bow range can attest to the 221s effectiveness.

Back when my 527 was still a 221 my best groups came from 19grns of RL7 behind Sierra 40gr HP's.....

I feed my Rem Classic 221 FB RL-7 and 40gr Nosler BT's

You have a PM alibi.

RL-7 with a 40 grain pill of some flavor seems like a popular combination wherever I look with Ballistic Tips and Sierra HP's leading the pack.

My Fireball is a Sako L461 with a 22" Douglas #4 stainless barrel. Put together in '89. Current favorite load is 19.5 gr of Winchester 680(no longer available) and 40 gr V Max bullet. just under 3500fps mv. AA1680 comes real close to the same speed and accuracy of the 680.

I have a reamer and gauges for the Fireball and have built three. I did one in a 700 with a 12 twist 26-1/2" barrel that was quite fast with 40 grainers at 3400. This was with LilGun powder. I got tired of trying to make the 223 action feed and eject properly (it extracted fine of course) and rechambered it to 223. Then I bought a new CZ 527 in the Fireball. Great little rifle. It's an efficient little case. Quiet and accurate. Unfortunately I moved out the CZ when I acquired a Sako AI Hunter in 17 Rem.

CZ 527, 4X Leupold

Nosler 40 grain BT
0.98 grams Lil'gun, but sometimes RL-7.
NEVER had a 3 shot group larger than a nickel. My kids can hit oranges out to 250 easily. Great rifle, superb round.

Mine is a laminated stock version (model 700) and it's one of the most accurate rifles I own. I've read that there were only 200 made.

At one range session it put 10 of the Berger 40 gr. hollowpoints in 0.55". Sierra Blitz Kings don't do quite as well but they're close. IMR 4227 has done the best in my rifle.

RL7 19 grains, 40 grain Nosler BT. Dead sheit all day long. Mines a set back and rechambered .222 mag Sako Vixen. Perfect action for the .221. I've carried mine all over Oregon and killed more coyotes with it than I can count, including one at 450. Perfect 200 yard squirrel gun. Quiet, easy on the barrel and brass, accurate, no recoil, perfect cartridge.

I've got a CZ 527, it's the most accurate factory rifle I've ever owned. Reloader 7, any old bullet under 52 grs. shoots great with 205M primers.

It's a scary good little rifle and cartridge, and good out to 300 yards easy on PDs, probably a bit less on coyotes, but it'll kill 'em if you hit them right.

Rembo: I have a 221 "re-chambering" story for you!
My friend "Mad Jack" from Yelm, Washington bought a new Ruger Model 77 V/T in 223 Remington about 12 years ago.
He and I Hunted Colony Varmints, with him using that Rifle, for a couple of years.
That 223 Remington was quite accurate and I kinda wished he would offer to sell it to me like he has done dozens of other times with various guns he grew tired of.
Anyway, instead of selling me the gun he decided to have the barrel set back and re-chambered to 221 Remington Fireball!
I pleaded with him repeatedly NOT to do so - but alas he did it anyway.
Well to make a long story short that re-chambered Rifle shot even better than when it was a 223!
I mean it shoots extremely well with now about a 25" barrel instead of the original 26" barrel.
This is another of the reasons why "I" consider the 221 Remington Fireball to be an "inherently accurate" cartridge.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

My .221 is a 700 LS. Its only kill so far is this small buck, DRT with a 45 gr Barnes X. I shot a B-I-G coyote (looked like a wolf) with it last June at about 180 yards. He spun around a couple times, biting at himself, almost went down, got his sh*t together and left. I never found him. I was shooting a 45 gr Hornady SP and suspect it didn't exit because I never found blood. I think a heavier bullet might have punched through and maybe I'd have found him. Oh well, at least he won't be eating any more fawns... I generally use AA 2015 & RL-7 and the Remington wears an early '90s vintage Bausch & Lomb 4-12x40.

Surprised nobody here has tried the 32gr Nolser BT. My two .221s love this bullet. A CZ 527 and a Remington classic.

I might try the 32 gr bullets when I exhaust my supply of 40gr bullets, but I stocked up awhile back and don't shoot as much as I'd like to.

Need to work on that...

I've got two and love them. Feed them 40g Vmax/Lil Gun for squirrels. I would not recommend the 40g Vmax for Yotes, as I have had several splash on the shoulder or fail to penetrate. Nolser BT is a better choice.

I have on hand a #4 Kreiger chambered in .221 for the M700. If your interested shoot me a PM.

CZ 527 American here -it wears a 4x12-40 nikon monarch .

20gr. of AA 1680 40gr. v-max = 3546fps average.

I love that rifle for calling,varmints even deer 19gr. of AA1680 w/a 45gr. barnes tsx does a fine job.
Shot a big diller [possum on the half shell] from a treestand at around 40 yards went in high on the shoulder down through towards the opposite front leg -took it completely off.

Long live the 221 fireball !!

are your referring to a 20/221?

as Nosler has a 32 grain Ballistic Tip in that line...

or a 35 grain which they have as a lead free bullet?

I've shot those a lot and a great bullet...

but have only seen a 32 grain Ballistic Tip in 20 caliber, not 22...

but then again, I could be wrong..

I have a bunch of Nosler 63 SP Varmageddon bullets in 22 caliber...

never saw them for sale anywhere, except via Nosler's Shooter's Pro Shop...

Well hell, just looked on their website and they make a 35 grain Varmageddon Tipped in 35 grain... they are out of stock on it, but I'll have to pick up some of those to try also...

so they made a liar out of me once again....

of the agony and embarrassment...

hard to keep up with everything they are rolling out the door..

DRT.....with a .22 CF...not possible!

Just a ?

How does the 221 Fireball with 40 gr bullets compare (velocity wise) to a 22 K-Hornet with the same bullets?
Assuming same barrel lengths, max loads, optimal powder selection, and any other assumptions necessary for a fair comparison.

I shot a doe from the same stand a few weeks later with a .404 Jeffery 300 gr Hawk and she ran over 100 yards. Go figure...

Seems to work like that, match the size of cartridge to size of critter and amazing things will happen.

300 to 400 more fps with the fireball according to Hodgdon's manual. Lil' Gun works good in both cartridges. I don't have a K-Hornet, just a regular one, it's fun but the fireball is easier to load for and more accurate. I shoot one of the Remington 700 laminates.
Been using Lil' Gun, RL-7 and finally found some AA1680 to try in the Fireball. My most accurate bullet has been the Nosler Varmageddon 40 gr FBHP. I haven't found a reloading combo yet to get the tipped version to shoot as good even with the ogive length set the same.

Is the Fireball its own animal or based on another case?

If by "it's own animal" you mean wildcatted from a SAMI cartridge....no...
It was a factory round developed by Remington for use it it's single shot XP's...
If you're asking if it was based on another cartridge...yes...
It's a shortened 222...but you could basically say any of the .378 dia. cartridges are "based" on the original 222...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.221_Remington_Fireball

Cooper 21 Montana Varmiter loves AA1680 with 50gr blitzkings.

K-Hornet absolutely can Not push 35 grain bullets at 3400.

He will go home crying like a little schoolboy.

AA1680 is a damn fine powder for the lil beastie, and with the higher charge weights it's easy to fish out a good load.

HM

Robertham1: Man do YOU have that beautiful Cooper Rifle dialed in!
Good for you.
Years ago I had a chance to buy another 221 Remington Fireball Rifle from the sporting goods store in Ronan, Montana.
It was a Cooper very much like yours.
Of course I am kicking myself now for not buying it.
At the time the owner of that shop had an "in" down at the Cooper factory (not to far south of Ronan) and he got to pick "the cream of the crop" as far as beautifully wooded Cooper Rifles goes.
I have not been back to that shop for a few years now and don't know if they still get in the most beautiful Coopers anymore?
Is that a Leupold 4.5x14 variable on your Cooper.
Again, great looking rig and great shooting.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I appreciate the compliments.

Good eye, yes it's a 4.5x14.

I can't believe none of you guys have tried to talk him outta this 221 foolishness. The 17 is THE only way to go.......

I thought he'd take the subtle hint when I said "when my fireball was still a 221" but it either went over his head or he ducked...not sure which.....

Buy CZ 527 in 221....add PN 17FB barrel....wa-la....the best walking varminter known to man....

Never got the hint and don't duck much, just take it as it comes. Could have been I thought maybe you went "up" and not down. Just hard for me to go the 17 caliber route when coyotes are what this gun would be used for 99.99% of the time. I am sure it will work fine but those quartering away dogs leave me leary. Kilt 1 cat in my time and never have even shot at a fox........ YET!!!

I was just having some fun 10ga but to be honest I wouldn't choose either of the FB's for a dedicated Coyote rifle....step up to a 17Rem is what I'd do but everyone has a different opinion and they all kill Coyotes....just depends on how much sewing you like to do...

And for the record....I like em both and can tell you for a fact the same rifle works fine on Coyotes with some discipline but like I said....it isn't my first choice if I'm "Coyote" hunting....

I have a buddy that says he would love a 17 FB but neither of us has a lick of 17 experience other than the rimfire versions. I can see where the 17's could be a blast though.

Just hard for me to think that a 221FB or 222 wouldn't be ideal for our style of hunting, minimal noise a major plus.

BTW, I would love to get me a few of those pale dogs you western guys get to kill. The coyotes in this country just don't seem as pretty.

My advice on varmint calibers is to get at least one of each! 22 hornet, 17 hornet, 221, 17FB, 222, 223, 17rem, 22-250............

Both are great rounds but given those two choices I like the 222 (for Coyotes)....matter of fact....222's the only centerfire I own that isn't a 17cal....as far as noise goes....17Rem...17FB...221...222...I like em all and you'll never notice the difference...choose the one you like and the right bullet and go hunting....luck

22-250 and 6mm Remmy are my "Go-to" guns but itching to try a quiet round I can watch the hits with.

a 204 is chopped liver?

Yes.....but only because I don't own one....

chopped liver is good too, cooked with onions!
Had a 204 for a while in a model 7, great walking rifle, even in the light little 7 you could see the impact.

I had one too....a nice CZ....fired 60 rounds and sold it....it just didn't do it for me.....my buddy has three of em though....like I said...."everyone has an opinion and they all kill Coyotes"....

My 204 went down the road because of a coyote I shot, it didn't do what I needed it to. I could blame it on the wrong bullet, shot placement, barometric pressure, whatever but If I had hit it in the exact same place with any number of other varmint caliber it would have been DOA. Instead I had to track her down and finish the job. That said it has it's place and I might end up with another one some day. right now I'm in love with the 17FB....that too will change in time, I'm a varmint caliber junky.

They're easy to love.....it's not the be all..end all..but my CZ 17FB's been my favorite rifle for a decade now and I don't see that changing any time soon...
I have four varmint rigs...2 17Rem's....a 222...and my FB....if I had to choose only one it would be the FB....

No not chopped liver but I have a hard time getting away from the 22's with so many pounds of bullets sitting around and no need to buy a skinny cleaning rod.

In fact I have had a 204, same one twice and it was a fur sure killer at crazy ranges too. Maybe, just maybe I could end up with another some time.

Did you end up getting a Fireball?

At last count I have 5. Could use a few more in fact.

The little CZ American with the VX2 2x7x33 ultralight scope is probably the handiest I have.

Just about perfect proportion wise.

Shedhorn Sports in Ennis, Montana has thousands of rounds of brass for sale if anyone needs it.

No not yet, got put on the back burner with a new house being bought. Still looking at another varmint rig though just can't decide which cartridge.

Holy Crap!

And I thought I was a gun slut with three .223AIs !

I have no self control.

Whiskey, fancy cheese and Fireballs.

what headstamp on the brass?

Well ya are...

its just Jim is a BIGGER SLUT, that's all...

you still maintain your honored campfire status...

The fireball is a greatly improved hornet: Faster, more accurate, better brass, and only burns a few more grains of powder to get there.

I've found RL7 to be a great powder, but I'm sure there are few others that will work just as well.

That makes me feel bettter. I only have 3.

This has been an interesting read. I've also been contemplating a 221 for quite a while. I have one last Charles Daly lefty mini Mauser action in the white and have gone back and forth between the 221 and 222. I think I'll go 221 Fireball.

I have two fireballs, pac-nor barrel on a old rem.788 action,15.4 gas. Lil-gun and 40 v-max has sent thousands of p.d's to the blue light.Other is a 16 inch barreled thompson contender,it prefers 18.5 gas. Rl-7 40 gr.v-max,this barrel has over 8000 rounds through it and will still shoot half inch at 100 yds. Im also using a Vartarg(221 necked down to .204) it's father Todd Kindler say's it's the fireball on steroids,he's about right!