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I am a fan of the TSX, but do not recommend them for cats. My recommendation for lion and leopard is a Nosler Partition or a Woodleigh Weldcore.

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Originally Posted by Winchestermodel70
I am a fan of the TSX, but do not recommend them for cats. My recommendation for lion and leopard is a Nosler Partition or a Woodleigh Weldcore.


I agree, but have seen firsthand, the expanding solids to be devastating on Lion from a .375H&H


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Marius,

Thanks for your input.

For some time, we're read very positive reports on the .270 TSX out of the .375 H&H and similar.

We're seeing a few reports of late about the 250 TTSX/.375 combo.

Do you see any difference between the two, or how would you compare them?

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DF,
My personal opinion is that those are the two bullets for the .375H&H that should be considered. Nothing wrong with the 300gr, I am just a big fan of the extra velocity with a flatter trajectory. I have not noticed a difference in killing ability between the two.

Lately, most of the guys pitched up here with the 250's , but just for plains game, and they were hammering them across the valleys.
As I mentioned before, I would not hesitate for a second to use those 250gr on Cape Buff. We shoot 200gr out of mine for the Buffalo, and they really put a beating on the buff.
That is without a doubt where I have seen a difference. The 200's are doing 3200fps, and there is a visual trauma upon impact, which I can only assume comes from the high velocity.

I think that 250 TSX/TTSX is as deadly as what you are going to get from the .375 and you can use it on anything.



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Thanks, Marius.

I sort of figured that's what you'd say. The 250 TTSX has better B.C.'s and should be a slightly better LR bullet than the 270 TSX and as you pointed out, it's moving faster.

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Quote
3100fps from a .300Mag? Send me some of that powder and I'll send you lead core bullets that yield better than 50% weight retention



Its too bad that you can't get the good Australian, Canadian and Swedish powders to really make the .300 sing. 3200 is within reach in a good 26" barrel, and 3150fps is my backed off load to save the brass. I've got H4350 load for a 26" barrelled 30-06 that idles along at 2850 fps, 1 grain under the maximum in the Hodgdon's manual.

Last edited by Model70Guy; 02/17/16.

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Marius,

Which 200 gr. bullet are you using in your .375 H&H?

DF


Edited to add, after some on line research, the 200 gr. GSC must be the bullet you're using. I got some load data from the GS web site, seems IMR-4895 is the fastest powder. I was wondering if you had a 'magic load" you preferred.


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Originally Posted by Model70Guy
Quote
3100fps from a .300Mag? Send me some of that powder and I'll send you lead core bullets that yield better than 50% weight retention



Its too bad that you can't get the good Australian, Canadian and Swedish powders to really make the .300 sing. 3200 is within reach in a good 26" barrel, and 3150fps is my backed off load to save the brass. I've got H4350 load for a 26" barrelled 30-06 that idles along at 2850 fps, 1 grain under the maximum in the Hodgdon's manual.


Absolutely. Then we still have to check every tin of powder online, in order to see if its running hot or cold. The difference is so severe that it could put you at risk from too high pressure and blowing up your rifle. Happened to my 300Win last year, but lucky it is a Ruger. Mentioned to the gunsmith that I was lucky that the rifle did not take away my face, and he said, not with a Ruger. The bolt won't come back on that.
Now, I only use factory ammo for the .300Win in the Federal Fusions.

Yeah DF, it's the 200gr GS Custom. Would love to go to the 250's but that rifle shoots a 3 leaf clover at a 100yds, so don't really want to mess around with it.

Trying to check if I can bring in powder from the USA.


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Well, the U.S. brings powder in from Canada, Australia and Europe. You would think South Africa could do the same.

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Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Speaking of petals spinning off, creating havoc, has there been BG, PG reports on the use of Cutting Edge Raptors?

These are designed to have petals spinning off, doing damage while the core bores on thru.

My series of one medium sized hog, purposefully chest shot with a 135gr. Raptor out of a .308 was DRT with impressive tissue damage. Chest shot hogs often run off, this one got nailed.

Cutting Edge bullets seem to be as accurate as TTSX/TSX and other monometals.

DF


I shot many pigs with CEBs and for the most part they got flattened with a pronounced "whomp" sound. I should put in the disclaimer now that I was using a .458 Win Mag, and got the same results with the other bullets I used too. My experience with the .375 235 gr ESP Raptor is very limited (whitetail and black bear)but my limited observation is that they give a spectacular amount of bleeding on these small thin skinned animals. You wouldn't think an animal could bleed so much. So far that hasn't translated into instant kills, but the sample size is small.

On buffalo I have quite a bit more experience, having used the 425 grain CEBs on water buffalo culls and was able to compare them directly with TSXs, A-Frames and a few Partitions. The CEBs might edge out the TSXs a bit at very close range, but it wasn't by much if I didn't just imagine it. Stretch the range out a bit and the stupidly low BCs dragged the velocity down so fast the TSXs pulled way ahead. Combine that with the fact that brush absolutely shreds them and I'm done with em. Neither the TSXs nor the CEBs beat the A-Frames at any distance, and neither could stay with it as range got longer. The expansion on TSXs was predictably reduced as velocity dropped. Penetration of the three bullets was approximately equal; mostly because you could bet your last box of primers on the hide stopping all of them on the far side.




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I've made about 5-6 or so of these boards over the years with recovered bullets from game. This one is the most recent, and I kept the best notes on them. On the back is a paper with more details for each bullet shown.

As you can see there have been quite a few bullets collected as this is about 1/4 or so of them. For the most part it was quite difficult to recover beautiful perfect mushroomed bullets before about 1995. The cup and core bullets available then were typically twisted bits of jacket and little bits of lead!

Once X and bonded core came on the market, well then it got more interesting!
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Originally Posted by Winchestermodel70
I am a fan of the TSX, but do not recommend them for cats. My recommendation for lion and leopard is a Nosler Partition or a Woodleigh Weldcore.

From my vast experience of one leopard, one 168 grain TTSX bullet at 3250 fps in his shoulder at 50 yards from my .300 Weatherby. We found him 19 paces from where I shot him.
[Linked Image]


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Originally Posted by Klikitarik
Buying the extra "T" is never a bad thing. Just as with powders, you're getting the "extreme" line of bullets which produce more consistent results and less sensitivity to temperature and speed. laugh Not surprisingly, the TTSX emulates the Partition in many cases by shedding a portion from its front. Bullets which open very consistently, yet penetrate deeply - even after the loss of the initial 'bloom' and at the expense of some mass, have a very long track record for reliability. Those who hunt in warmer climes may not notice these advantages as much.

Of the 15 or so animals that I've shot with 168 grain TTSX bullets, I've only recovered these three. The other bullets either completely shot through the animals, or I didn't make the effort to recover them.
[Linked Image]
I think that the one grain weight loss on the two bullets on the right was only the loss of the plastic tip.

These 180 grain Nosler Partition bullets that I recovered from elk each expanded back to the partitions and lost about 40% of their original weight.
[Linked Image]


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Buffybr,
Congrats on a beautiful cat! Love those thick neck toms!


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Originally Posted by buffybr
Originally Posted by Klikitarik
Buying the extra "T" is never a bad thing. Just as with powders, you're getting the "extreme" line of bullets which produce more consistent results and less sensitivity to temperature and speed. laugh Not surprisingly, the TTSX emulates the Partition in many cases by shedding a portion from its front. Bullets which open very consistently, yet penetrate deeply - even after the loss of the initial 'bloom' and at the expense of some mass, have a very long track record for reliability. Those who hunt in warmer climes may not notice these advantages as much.

Of the 15 or so animals that I've shot with 168 grain TTSX bullets, I've only recovered these three. The other bullets either completely shot through the animals, or I didn't make the effort to recover them.
[Linked Image]
I think that the one grain weight loss on the two bullets on the right was only the loss of the plastic tip.

These 180 grain Nosler Partition bullets that I recovered from elk each expanded back to the partitions and lost about 40% of their original weight.
[Linked Image]



I'm trying to think of a single 168 grainer from a .300 that I recovered that didn't shed its petals. Most exited, but I can think of at least 3 lengthwise shots that I found. One on a moose, one on a musk-ox and the last from a whitetail. I don't necessarily think its even a bad thing, its just what I saw.

I've had a .338 shed 3 out of 4 petals, one .375 lose a single petal (It hit sideways so could be an anomaly) and none from .416 or .458 bullets. With 7mm and down bullets I've yet to recover a single example.

What I have found is I'm farther ahead to look at the wounds and the animals reaction, and leave the weight retention, appearance and measurements and what letter of the alphabet they resemble to the guys that write advertisements.



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Originally Posted by Model70Guy
Originally Posted by buffybr
Originally Posted by Klikitarik
Buying the extra "T" is never a bad thing. Just as with powders, you're getting the "extreme" line of bullets which produce more consistent results and less sensitivity to temperature and speed. laugh Not surprisingly, the TTSX emulates the Partition in many cases by shedding a portion from its front. Bullets which open very consistently, yet penetrate deeply - even after the loss of the initial 'bloom' and at the expense of some mass, have a very long track record for reliability. Those who hunt in warmer climes may not notice these advantages as much.

Of the 15 or so animals that I've shot with 168 grain TTSX bullets, I've only recovered these three. The other bullets either completely shot through the animals, or I didn't make the effort to recover them.
[Linked Image]
I think that the one grain weight loss on the two bullets on the right was only the loss of the plastic tip.

These 180 grain Nosler Partition bullets that I recovered from elk each expanded back to the partitions and lost about 40% of their original weight.
[Linked Image]



I'm trying to think of a single 168 grainer from a .300 that I recovered that didn't shed its petals. Most exited, but I can think of at least 3 lengthwise shots that I found. One on a moose, one on a musk-ox and the last from a whitetail. I don't necessarily think its even a bad thing, its just what I saw.

I've had a .338 shed 3 out of 4 petals, one .375 lose a single petal (It hit sideways so could be an anomaly) and none from .416 or .458 bullets. With 7mm and down bullets I've yet to recover a single example.

What I have found is I'm farther ahead to look at the wounds and the animals reaction, and leave the weight retention, appearance and measurements and what letter of the alphabet they resemble to the guys that write advertisements.



That makes sense on the 168s. They're constructed differently. They don't test then above 2700 fps. They open all the way down to 1500 fps. When Barnes told me that, I went with the 165 over the 168 for my 30/06.

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Exactly why I also choose the 165's

I have also never seen any failure to perform, always with flawless perfection of the TSX

They gave me a pile of the TTSX to try out too, but I never saw that the TTSX was an improvement over the TSX. Maybe just my luck so far? The difference may be in some longer range BC advantage? My longest shots are well under 500 yards so I did not test extensivley for this. My TSX bullets group right at 6" at 500 yards from a solid bench rest. Nothing to brag about but it's just a basic hunting rifle too. I did not see the groups change with the TTSX bullets, they group in the same clump of holes with both styles. I would guess the BC advantage will come somewhere beyond 600 yards, if that's the need of the shooter?

I'm a simple sort too, less is better for me. Just a simple solid chunk of copper without anything fancy like a plastic tip is just fine in my book!


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JJ,
I think the plastic tip TTSX was made to give more reliable opening. It seems that in some of the smaller calibers there were instances where claims of bullets acting like a solid and penciling through game were made. I have never experienced this but up until a few years ago, shot nothing smaller than 308cal.
It also significantly improved the BC going from the 235TSX to the 250TTSX in 375cal.
The TTSX's do not seem to offer any accuracy improvement over the excellent TSX, in fact I had some difficulty getting the 250TTSX to shoot well but have solved that problem.


I am continually astounded at how quickly people make up their minds on little evidence or none at all.
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IF I remember correctly, the 168 is made for 308Winchester and the 165 for the 30-06 and the 300 magnums....may explain the difference in behavior...

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I shot a Springbok a couple of years ago in the Karoo region of SA, using my .375 Ruger with 250 gr. TTSX. A perfect lung hit exited, leaving a huge, 2" hole. Obviously had no problem expanding! If I were to hunt more small antelope with the .375, it would be with solids, or at least with the regular TSX.


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