Home Forums Hunting & Shooting BPCR stupid question on using a compression die

I agree if you want to spend another $149.95

You're right!!

FallCleaning by Rick Mulhern, on Flickr

Best money I ever spent, and I have Sharpsman to thank for his apt advice years ago.
That 149$ will pay you back 10 fold in the convenience factor alone.

nice squared away lash up there, Señor.

GTC

Ok back to topic. You raise the cartridge in the press all the way. Screw the die body in till it almost touches the shell holder. Then you go about setting the depth of the compression stem. You need to have a slight bell on the case mouth to make sure the stem enters the case smoothly, but then you need that slight bell to keep from shaving the bullet base when seating anyway.
If you're loading patched bullets, then get the next size smaller compression stem.

Ranch 13-appreciate your comments but thats exactly my issue. Here's the procedure
1. At full stroke screw down the die until it just touches the shell holder
2. Set depth of compression by dialing or extending the compression stem down (.51 for our situation).
3.insert charged case with wad
4. compress charge-here's where it goes south. you can only raise the ram enough so that the cartridge mouth makes contact with the die. the die is not designed to allow the case to go into the die body. You have to stop raising the ram mid stroke once you make contact with the base of the die.

Ok so that die is designed so that it does not support the case, so just adjust it to compress the powder the proper amount with the ram fully raised.

Now we've come full circle. you can't fully raise the ram with the die threaded into the press.

with no die installed and a 45/70 case in the shell holder and the ram fully raised the case mouth is about an 1" above the top of the press.

Sounds like one hell of a problem you have there.

My guess that' s how it works then. When the mouth of the case touches the die, you are there. Some times on the die I use, the mouth of the case catches the die as it enters, possibly messing up the case. Your die is not going to do that. Set your depth and give it a try.

On another note, to the barkers in the cheap seats.........
Oh, I guess I'm supposed to mention WADS. If you use them, you'll know what to do. And as far a CRIMPING if you want to crimp, go ahead. I like to be able to take the shell BACK OUT of the gun if need be.

Regards,
Knarley

Tim, grab hold of your full length re-sizing die for a bit,....picture the cylindrical "plug" that protrudes from the bottom of your BACO compression setup mounted instead on top of, and threaded through, into the upper / neck portion of your FL die.
The FLR die would of course be bored out, so's to allow the neck some clearance .
Folks have been explaining that sorta' setup,....NOT what you have there,....I really don't know why BACo is even calling it a "Die",....it's not. Using the term die infers that the case will ENTER the thing,...not butt up against it.
To my knowledge hat setup has always been called a "compression plug".

GTC

Maybe this will provide a bit more clarity,....

The custom powder compression die on the right is posed upside down,....mentally flip it around, and one can readily see how much of the thing protrudes ABOVE the fave of your Rockchucker's 7/8-14 bushing,....
Midway between the threaded prtion, and the micrometer head would be about where the floating "plug" sits,....in other words right in the neck area of your case.

Hope this helps



GTC

Mr Crossfireoops,
Mr. Tim doesn't have a BACO it's a Shilo.
The write up on the Shilo states that and I quote:
"You can see everything that's happening". So what I see as happening, the case goes up, over the compression plug/plunger, compressing the powder untill the case hits the bottom of the main body of the "die" and stops. The "plunger" protruding down is what compresses the powder.

With a BACO set up, as you describe, the shell case goes into the "Die" where the "plunger" compresses the powder charge. The problem with the BACO set up is you CANNOT see what is going on, and the case mouth can be distorted by either the "Die" mouth OR more often, the edge of the "plunger" that one cannot see.

I am using the term "die" loosley as the part that screws into the main press body, for it could be called many things. The press doesn't need to have a full stroke to do it's job with the Shilo set up, but it would certainly be nice as at least a reference.

The OP, Mr. Tim was asking about setting his powder compression set up. Wads, crimping, lube,grease cookies, neck tension, and all the other "voodo" that we do, is also part of the loading of BPCR, can be touched on at a later date.

One step at a time, one step at a time.

Regards,
Knarley

Angels dancing on the head of a pin.
Nomenclature dispute,....
Small beans, as I've never BOUGHT a die from either outfit,...I make all of my own. That Micrometer die's a good example, as is the 2.6 body die beside.

There are more than a few folks posting here that use all sortsa' tooling and parts built here, as well.

You might want to quiz "Mr. Tim" about that.


.....the plungers in those dies are WAY to sharp / squared off on their lower radius,....putting a nice round profile on those edges STOPS the case mouth deformation bug DEAD in it's tracks. Having a wad seated with a slightly concave upper face means squat.

GTC

unfortunately i think this is designed to be used without coming to full stroke. i believe i'll just buy a compression plug (as you have all described) that fits an RCBS expander die. My intent was to make sure i wasn't missing something obvious which it appears i'm not.

Appreciate all the input and opinion.

Tim

Tim - hopefully this might help clarify what you are looking for . . . First picture is of my assembled compression die - set up for a 45-90. Second pic is of the compression die with the "plug" removed and set beside the "body".

Assembled die


Die with plug removed


Mine is a "custom" die made by a friend of mine (not positive, but I think the body is from an FL die). The body is an extra he had laying around and he made the plug. It is adjustable by moving the "ring nut" on either the top (plug) piece or on the bottom (body) piece. For a 45-70, either the top "ring nut" would need to move toward the top of the plug 0.4", or the bottom "ring nut" would need to move toward the top of the body 0.4". The bottom of the compression plug has a slight chamfer to avoid dinging up the mouth of the cartridge. This die allows the cartridge to be inserted into the die as far as necessary to get a full stroke of the press. adjustable for everything from 45-70 to at least 45-120 . . .

Hi Otter,

the problem is that that is not what i'm looking at. the shiloh die does not support the case (the case does not go into the die but stops at the base of the die.

I should have said at the onset that i've been reloading for 10 years or so and have a good grasp of the basics. but this situation is something i have not run into before.

Appreciate your input-

Tim

Reading the description of Shiloh's compression die it says something to the affect that it keeps everything out in the open where you can see it.
Then looking at the picture, it becomes rather evident that you screw the die into the press until you see the bottom of it, then adjust the compression stem to compress the powder to the desired depth. So no you would not raise the ram completely, you will have to go slow and pay attention or yes you may mash a case mouth in if you jam the ram up without looking at what you're doing.
Did you call Shiloh and ask them about how to use the die?
Were there no instructions included with it?

i haven't called them and unfortunately it came in nothing more than a plastic bag.

Appreciate all the comments.