Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Backpack Hunting What's the benefit of a tipi....

...And if you could change anything what would it be? Are they spacious? Good in inclement weather? What's the draw?

I'm trying to figure out the answer to that myself. I *think* that one advantage is ease of stove use.

The plusses are weight/size ratio, good wind profile from all directions, stove capable, simple pitch with one pole. I like the absence of guylines too.

The cons would be loss of useful space around the edges. More stakes than other designs, but then that helps in wind and snowload departments.

We sold our traditional nylon 4-season tents and went to tipis last year. No regrets. For our use and typical conditions the tipis rock.

We've had a few in a short time, and they all have their purposes. We've had Seek Outside in 2, 4, 6, and 12 person sizes.

After using those, we sold the smaller tipis, keeping just the 6 for backpacking, an the 12 for around the vehicle.

The 6 is a lot of space for the weight. 7'10" peak. About 5 lbs with carbon fiber pole. At 6'3", I can easily walk in without stooping.

In comparison, the Trango-2 we sold was 9+ lbs, for a crawl-in 2 person. Of course the Trango is superior for hardcore mountaineering, but we don't do that.

Compare covered area vs weight. Consider also that bathtub floors are just that...and that sheltered bare ground dries if wet. Don't try it until you knock it, though.

How wet does the ground get in bad weather?

Walking in vs crawling in

I'm not sure that I understand the question.

Here's how I use a floorless shelter on a wet weather backpack hunt (example: interior Alaska, continuous drizzle, ground soaked, 38F):
1.) choose a good tent site
2.) erect tent (for my SL4: unroll tent, stake corners, place pole in center and extend to snug-ish, close zipper door, stake between corners, tighten stake locations and extend pole as desired, lay out 3' x 6' or so tyvek inside.)

And, here's how I use one on a backpack hunt in snow (example: Madison Range in MT, mid-November, 8000 ft elevation, 15F, 8" of snow, snowing lightly):
1.) choose a good tent site
2.) Invest 10 minutes to plow snow from tent site with boots, until not much remains under tent footprint
3.) erect tent as above
4.) unpack stove and make a fire...

Here's how I pack up the tent after one or more days' stay on the hunts above:
1.) dismantle tent, and marvel at the tent-sized patch of dry, bare ground.

Walking in standing up with your boots on and an armload of wood for the stove.

Sheds wind from any direction.

Just under 8lbs with CF pole and titanium stove.

That is for an 8-man SO.

Listen to this man.

The only negative I've found thus far with tipi style tents is use in very buggy areas. You can get a nest for them, but then you just have two layers inside covered in bugs.

I converted from a "traditional" tent to a tipi a few years ago and would never go back. I was hesitant to try a floorless shelter, but now I'm completely sold on the design. I love being able to walk in and out without worry of tracking in messes or taking my boots off. I just put down a ground cloth where I want to sleep and tromp around the rest as needed.

Mine has handled rain, wind and cold temps very well. I don't think you can get a more comfortable, heated shelter that can be packed in and out of the mountains comfortably. The stove requires pretty steady feeding (it runs about 30-45 min when loaded up) and will get the tipi too warm if you get overly ambitious.

The biggest drawback of the tipi design is usable floor space. In my opinion, an 8-man tipi and stove is perfect for two guys and their gear (plus firewood) to really spread out and be comfortable. You can easily sleep three people comfortably in the same tipi, but space for gear is much more limited.

I always thought it would be interesting to try a shelter made with the same material as my tipi, but cut in the mold of a wall tent. Six poles (two tall ones for each end of the shelter in the center and four shorter ones for each corner), two zip-up doors and a stove jack. It would certainly weigh more than a tipi, but I think you'd end up with a lot more usable space inside.

Advantage...bivouacking.

I had killed a good billy on Kodiak last Fall and with darkness and weather closing in, trying getting back to camp was futile. Wife, son and I were tired, cold, wet and exhausted.

We had prepared though and had brought a 3lb. tipi (a Black Diamond mega-mid) and our bags for an emergency bivy situation. Thank God we had, it poured buckets. We slept sound, and recharged.
The thing likely saved our lives.

huntsonora:

I'll try to answer your question without starting a $hit storm argument.

Advantages of a double wall dome tent:
1. Best aerodynamics.
2. They have floors so they are a cleaner sleeping environment.
3. Condensation is controlled.
4. Do a good job of keeping out insects.
5. Dome tent is less expensive than silnylon tipi + stove.

Disadvantages of double wall dome tents:
1. Difficult to safely use stoves inside a double wall dome tent.
2. Dome tents are heavier than single wall tipis of the same size.
3. You have to give up excess space to get a dome tent that is as light as a tipi.

Advantages of a Tipi:
1. Best size to weight ratio.
2. Best way to ride out a storm or severe cold in a heated tent with a stove if you have firewood.
3. Lots of headroom.
4. Good aerodynamics but not the best aerodynamics.

Disadvantages of a tipi:
1. Condensation is a problem if you don't use a stove.
2. No floor means you sleep on whatever nature gives you. Could be mud, snow, dirt, whatever.
3. Can't use a stove where there is no firewood, i.e above timberline, on a glacier.
4. Sloped walls make it inconvenient to use space near the perimeter.
5. When you add a stove, the usable floor area is the same or less than a double wall dome tent.
6. Don't do a very good job of keeping out insects.
7. Stoves require constant feeding of wood.

Single wall tipis made of Silnylon are obscenely expensive and that amounts to immoral profiteering by the manufacturers.

I own both types of tents and use the type that is best suited for the anticipated situation.

I do a lot of summer backpacking and I use ultralight dome tents exclusively. My current favorite is a Big Agnes Copper Spur UL-2.

I'm going on an Alaska fly-in caribou hunt in September. We will sleep in Cabelas XPG-4 tents (2 to a tent) and use a Sierra Designs Origami-4 tipi as our group cook tent.

KC

KC, your bias towards double-walled tents is apparent, once again. Nothing wrong with that, everyone is entitled to their preferences.

But much of what you wrote about the disadvantages of tipis is in a word, bullsh**.

Especially the part about immoral profiteering, that's just utter nonsense. First, the two brands of tipis at the top of the list are Kifaru and Seek Outside, both of which are made in the USA, paying American workers a living wage. You want to talk immorality, start with off-shoring of manufacturing.

Plus, nothing those companies do remotely fits the definition of profiteering. We're not talking about a commodity, something there's a shortage of, or any price manipulation. We're talking about a luxury item for which there are an infinite number of alternatives, and an item people choose to buy because they favor it over the other alternatives.

And as far as your list of disadvantages of tipis, I say "BS."

You say "condensation is a problem without a stove," I say it's not. Yes, you will have condensation. No, it's not a problem. It's water droplets on the inside of your tent.

You say "no floor means you sleep on whatever nature gives you." I say, dude, seriously? They make these things called ground sheets now. A tyvek ground sheet weighs a few ounces.

You say "You can't use a stove where there's no firewood." That's obvious. Why is that a disadvantage of a tipi vs. a dome tent? Do dome tents come with firewood now?

You say, "when you add a stove, the usable floor space is the same or less than a dome tent." I say, that's a ridiculous statement, since tipis come in a lot of different sizes, as do dome tents. You just need to pick the right size tipi and floor space is not an issue. We camped in snow on one trip, three guys with sleds for our gear. We sized the tipi so that all three of us had a large sleeping area, with our sleds parked inside the tipi. Plus a big pile of wood. Plus snow shoveled in to level the sleeping areas. Try that with a floored dome tent.

You say "stoves require constant feeding of wood." That made me laugh. Everything you've said about stoves made me laugh in fact. You said "it's "difficult" to use a stove inside a floored, double-walled dome tent???" It's not only difficult, it's a bad idea. Have you ever done it?

The biggest advantage of a tipi is the fact that they're made for wood stove use, and together with the stove, comprise a heated shelter. But stove use isn't listed in your "advantage" list for tipis. Which is absurd. A tipi is not only "the best way to ride out a storm," it's a heated shelter, regardless of whether you're in a storm or not. That's an advantage.

When you weigh the advantage of having a heated shelter against your supposed disadvantage that the stove requires feeding wood, you pretty much put your bias against tipis in a bright spotlight.

It's always nice to see how KC likes supporting the Asian economy.

I don't have to dislike one, to like the other. They both have their place and purposes. And a lot if it is personal preferences.

I really like he room/weight thing of the tipi, and the ability to use a stove. At 55, and 6'3", with a blown L4/5 disc, I'm just not that into crawling around in a small space. When I discovered the lightweight tipi, I loved it right away. I like being able to stand up fully, stretch, move around a little. A lot more space to ride out some crap weather.

A few pics. Great size reference, and pole simplicity comparisons between the 9+ lb Trango-2, and the 5+ lb SO-6 tipi. Both great shelters, both fairly expensive, both proven in just about every situation. But kind of like different religions.

Just to be fair, some good memories with the Trango, Taking leave from the USMC to spend a few days in Montana.

My "tipi" has a bathtub floor. And full bug netting. Certain times of the year, you couldn't talk me out of those things. Certain times of the year, I'd rather have no floor, no net, and a stove.

My tipi was also made in a sweatshop somewhere in Asia, and cost about half what most high end LW tents cost. Tough situation to be in - immoral if I support one of the US profiteers, and immoral if some of my money supports an Asian kid. Apologies all around, but I needed a tent.

I've waited out storms in a couple different Hillebergs, a couple big agness UL tents (hope to never repeat that), bomshelters, Cabela's 6-man guide, the Hex3, and the SL5. All of them can fail, given the right/wrong weather and not enough attention to pitch. Given a choice in lightweight tents, I'd rather be stuck in a tipi than a tube or dome tent.

Yes, you "lose" a lot of floor space to the last couple feet not having any headroom. So you use that space to store your gear, and still have more room in the remaining area than most other designs, pound for pound. And then there is the headroom.

Ah, the immorality of backcountry hunting! To be clear, I never would've used that word, and probably wouldn't have responded at all if I hadn't read the words "immoral profiteering" in KC's post. I've dealt with and met the principals of both companies mentioned and neither word fits. His characterization was way off base and a cheap shot, and I responded.

Immoral profiteering? Seriously?


What incredibly moral business do you own and operate?

Smokey,

Are you saying this didn't add up for you?

Well, now that I think about it, you could say that.

Whenever I want to avoid a $hit storm, I try to lead in with something a little more tactful.

Something along the lines of "no disrespect intended, but you're an a$$hole."

I try to always take the high road.

KC, like smokepole, MontanaMarine, and many others, have offered me a ton of very valuable advice on backpacking and on hunting the West. I thank them and respect them all greatly.

That said, KC, I think you're off base more than a little. I have met Tim and Angie of SeekOutside. I know where they live. I have a pretty good handle on their business. They make a damned fine product, here in the U.S., using the best materials they can obtain, and they pay their few employees as decently as they can while still making a rather modest living themselves. If that's "immoral profiteering", then I'm happy to pay it. Given that their prices are rather well in line with the other U.S. manufacturers of similar products of similar quality, I feel pretty comfortable making the same decision in regards to their wares.

When it comes to Asian manufactured stuff, you may have a completely different argument and a more valid point about the profiteering. When it comes to the U.S. made stuff like Kifaru and SeekOutside, I respectfully disagree and do so knowing enough about the second of those two companies to stand pretty firm on that position. Heck, they are close enough to you for a visit, and both Tim and Angie are great folks. I suspect you'd like them more than a bit. Go see for yourself.

I used a kifaru 4 man for a few years....but I really didn't care for it that much. In really cold snowy weather it was good. The stove is a luxury. I used a tyvec ground cloth and it was a pretty toasty comfortable camp for TWO people.
In warmer weather I missed the bath tub floor. Ants and such were a PIA. If the ground was at all moist condensation would form during the day and you had a bit of a soggy welcome at the end of the day. leaving it somewhat open helped but not much.
I spent 9 miserable days with it in the wrangels of Alaska. 9 out of 11 days of rain. Condensation was awful and the wet tundra just added to the misery. High winds assured that there was a constant wet mist coming of the sides. The slopped sides take up a lot of room and anything that touches them is soon soaked. The design is pretty wind stable.

So now I have two Hillegerge tents. My stove is a six wick survival candle. Warms things up nicely. Still looking for good winter base camp type but won't be a tipi.

My .02

Lefty C

In addition to what has been said, I would add a bit from my experience in a Seek Outside 6 man tipi.

1. First of all, love the huge space and stand up room for the four lbs. weight of tipi alone. For backpacking I'd not carry a pole nor stakes, but have not yet backpacked with mine. It made a great cook and yarn time tent on a moose hunt way up north, separate from sleeping tent. Have used it on multi-day deer hunts always near a vehicle so far.

2. I do not always use a center pole but hang it from a limb or outside poles, freeing inside space.

3. Condensation IS a problem without a stove if used in moderately wet to extremely wet climates. I.e. on the Olympic Peninsula you could not get the inside wetter with a lawn sprinkler. In the Interior of BC in -25 temps hoarfrost from breath and body vapor grew over an inch thick on the inside of the tipi and rained when thawed by a stove.

4. You can increase edge space use by pitching the tipi higher and letting the sod skirt become a short vertical wall. Depends on wind, snow outside, etc. as to how practical this is. In mild weather, it is how I pitch the tipi.

5. My tipi has I believe it is 19 tie out spots around the edges. Pain in the neck. Especially on rocky or frozen ground, or loose gravel. I lay logs blocked by rocks to keep from rolling, and tie several points to one long log. Also tie to rocks and scoot out to tighten the pull on the tipi.

I bought mine after two consecutive extreme winter condition late Fall backpack hunts with a son and grandson. We did more than survive with our tarps, but as an old codger I decided to bring along a little more comfort next time.

I mostly use teepees when backpack hunting and I hunt in one of the wettest places around - Kodiak Island. A teepee and a woodstove allows you to hunt in the rain and get soaking wet and then DRY OUT. You just can't do that in a 2 walled tent that lacks a woodstove. I remember the days when you'd set up the ole double walled tent at the end of the day and then hunker down in your sleeping bag to stay warm. If it rained the next day you'd stay in the bag too. Tent bound.

No longer - now we all hang out and DRY out by the woodstove. Get up and go the next day even if it is raining. A couple of times we've pitched the tent on soaking wet ground in a driving downpour. We try and cut standing dead wood and split it with our machete to get the dry stuff in the center - once the fire is lit we pile the wet wood on top to dry it out (we rotate all the wood and create a dry pile). The inside of the teepee gets pretty steamy but eventually it all drys out and gets super warm. Even the ground dries out. All the gear hanging over the stove dries out too.

The trick is good ventilation. When ever I hear about 'condensation issues' I think there is a guy who probably has his tent edges 'stapled' to the ground. You have to lift the tent edge in multiple places and allow air to enter - yes it can be breezy but if you don't do it you will have condensation issues. You need to heat up the tent, get the moisture in the air, and then vent it. That is how you get water out of the tent.

I've found teepees to be bone dry in comparison to the double and single wall tents I've used (Hillenburg, Moss, Bibler, North Face, Nemo). The problem with tents with floors is that the water you bring into the tent stays on the floor! Everything eventually gets damp in a double walled tent.

The biggest advantage to tents with floors is bugs - teepees are hell if the mosquitoes are really bad.

But to re say my main point, teepee do not have condensation issues if you vent them adequately!

Patrick

Dang Patrick, took the words right out of my mouth.

I was just fixing a snack and pondering on the condensation issue. Mainly because it's never been a problem for me. A lot has been written about it here but the fact is, the amount of condensation you'll get, and whether it's a problem depends on a whole host of factors including where you're using the tipi. The OP is from Colorado and so am I. I use a tipi every hunting season and condensation has never been a problem for me.

Mainly because I most often use a Mega-Mid or SL-5 that allows me to do just what you said--pitch the bottom edges of the tent up off the ground to let the breeze circulate and vent out the moisture. It may get a little breezy but as long as your pad/bag are up to snuff the breeze is more pleasant than anything else, especially if you're sharing the tent with an aromatic hunting pard. And speaking of that, one of the things I like best about a tipi-style tent is the square footage to weight ratio. I've spent lots of time in double-walled backpacking tents with floors and I don't mind sharing close quarters with my wife but when I'm hunting I much prefer the wide open spaces afforded by a tipi-style tent of the same weight. Plenty of space for two large dudes, all their gear, and he's not snoring directly into my ear. Not to mention the ever-present possibility of a bad fart. Which is always a consideration on any decent hunting trip.

Having said that, I've also used Kifaru tipis in the colder weather of late seasons, with the edges stapled to the ground. Condensation hasn't been an issue for me there either. I spent a few nights in a K-tipi with Patrick Smith, who designed them. At first I was worried about condensation. We had a big pot on top of the wood stove around the clock, melting snow for our water supply. And also a cook pot with simmering beans and whatever else he threw in there. Which come to think of it is another advantage of a tipi/wood stove combination--you can cook on top of the wood stove so you don't need to carry fuel, and you can simmer things like beans and rice that you just can't cook on a backpacking stove due to fuel constraints. Anyway, the upshot of all the boiling pots was that the tipi was like a sauna inside. I had to strip down to my t-shirt to stay comfortable. There was a good amount of condensation on the inside of the tent, and it would drip down on our gear, including sleeping bags. I was kind of worried about it, but Patrick was oblivious to it. And after a couple of days of that, I realized he had the right attitude, and it was nothing to be concerned about. Especially with synthetic-fill sleeping bags.

Did up some simple extensions with 550 cord for the stake loops on the BT-2. Real simple mod, and you can use the extensions to pitch it to breathe, or use the stake loops if you want it tight to the ground.

Montana Marine that is exactly how I've vented the Seek Outside teepee I own. For other teepees, like Smokepole I lift the SL5 and Megamids off the ground, and with the TiGoat I use sticks to hold the edge off the ground - I peg it way out and push up near the edge. Kifaru teepees have a way to pull up the edge on the long guys outs too to create a vent. Gotta have those air vents! Patrick

Our experience differs! I am fanatical about venting, due to experience.

One night in the Olympics all three of our shelters were equally soaked and dripping inside, and could not be wetter:

1. An open flat tarp,
2. a Sil tarp pitched with one end totally open and vented all around the edges,
3. and a double walled tent.

Didn't have a tipi along but it would have been just as wet however pitched. A stove dries out all however.

[quote][/quote]

4ager, I understand where you're coming from, but someone's standard of living really shouldn't enter the conversation and is irrelevant anyway. It doesn't matter if the principals own 10 mansions, four yachts, and a Lear jet, what they're doing is not immoral and it's not profiteering.

Melvin Forbes makes $3,000 rifles, does that mean he's an immoral profiteer? Hardly. It just means that like the tent makers, he's identified a high-end niche market of discerning customers willing to pay a premium for gear they believe is worth it. No one needs a $3,000 rifle or an $800 tipi; there are plenty of cheaper alternatives so these are luxury items that people with disposable income choose to buy. The fact that people are willing to pay the premium allows these items to be manufactured in the US at a living wage, and that's a win/win; there is nothing nefarious about it.

And making a profit is not immoral. It's what tbis country was built on.

I like floorless when totally off the beaten path. IME if your going to set up in remote "sites" say for instance that see a lot of use along the Pacific Crest Trail or high mountain lakes that see frequent hikers expect mice.

Enjoy a stove. And some head room for getting dressed.

Nothing wrong with bringing a trap or two...SNAP!! in the middle of the night is nearly as satisfying as bagging the intended quarry.

Some people don't like it when mice scurry across their face at night. Can't figure out why.

I'm trying to remember something KC has recommended, that was actually useful to a backpack or Alaska hunter. Can't do it.

Sometimes, it's just wet. If you're getting dripped on, then there's probably a problem with the sloping, guying and venting of your shelter. Or, you picked the wrong shelter. Or you picked the wrong campsite. Or the wrong week to hunt that year...I guess that I fail to see how 10 lbs of sopping 4-season beats 3 lbs of appropriately sloped and vented yet sopping tipi when faced with 72+ hours of soaker mist or driving rain.

Another problem is that folks have with comfort in wet weather, is having some odd obsession with using puffy jackets for their only outermost insulation layer. They have their place being worn in that manner (rockies, east of cascades, much of AK). However, if it's really wet and tending to stay that way, unless you put fleece as the last layer against your raingear instead of the puffy (when not working hard) when it's wet out, then your puffy stuff will get and stay really wet and won't work as well as it could. A fleece zip or pullover roomy enough to be pulled over a puffy vest handily beats a super fashionable tailored athletic fit snug lightweight midlayer under a puffy sleeved/hooded jacket when worn under raingear in the wet. Remember that the wet will move from you and your baselayers to wherever dewpoint temperature is under the raingear. For fleece against raingear, that's right at the interface with the raingear. For puff against raingear, that's in the last little bit of insulation...

In other words, don't let Sitka or Kuiu or Rokslide or 24hrcampfire tell you what the right clothing system is for all occasions. 200-weight fleece with room underneath for a light puffy vest is VERY USEFUL in wet weather, and really isn't too bad an option in dry weather either.

+1 verygood advice !

I've always liked KC's observations. But I don't hunt in the rainforest or any very wet climate so hard for me to call BS on anyone on that topic.

I can't help but observe the attitude that if it is hideously expensive it must be better among younger hunters who watch a lot of hunting on TV. In my general experience the cutting edge stuff is always priced beyond its value to way more people than the few hard chargers who may take full advantage of that gear. I don't need a 30-378 if I want to shoot deer at 150 yards and don't personally need an $800 teepee.

My preference is to buy American but I'll buy seldom used tools at Harbor Freight- it makes economic sense for me.

Oops posted too soon - I do like to read the opinions on here of people with differing opinions and experience including those hard chargers who will test gear beyond my needs so that I have a reference for both performance and cost of gear.