Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Deer Hunting Bucking the brush

I mostly agree, there was a thread.. whats the ideal deer rifle? Whatever the heck I have in my hand. I've said it before and will say it again, I"d have no qualms with a 22LR if it was legal.

I will say some deer just don't die, I've seen a couple of examples of double lungs that survived. But those are REALLY RARE.

There are always going to be some circumstances that dictate either having the right gun or shot choice, or passing the shot, but thats the case regardless generally speaking.

Brush bucking, well I was taught to miss anything between myself and the animal was the only sure way. If I just had to... I'd actually probably prefer #4 buck and close enough.. or #1, lots more "chances"

And I've been deflected twice. Once a lost deer, that lived IMHO, broke his leg low after hitting a vine I never saw. And once a missed deer, and I looked and looked for that deer, then went and shot the gun and it hit a dime size marker at that distance so even though I never found the twig, I dang sure never found the deer or buzzards either.

Sure makes life a lot easier, eh?

Sam Adams...or Budweiser??

I grew up reading those old magazines. They were more interesting than my homework.

More than caliber, I aim for areas that will put the deer down NOW. I take base of neck and shoulder shots. The thick cedar swamp where I hunt oft times if a deer runs off and one is forced to wait until morning, you'll have a skeleton due to the coyotes. I've lately been gravitating to larger calibers too...favorites being a 303 Brit and 338 Federal.

I pick holes in brush, and aim VERY carefully with the intention of DRT.

Good advice. I hit a 1" grape vine once with a ML using 240gn xtp , 80grains pyrodex at the time was the standard load. 30 yards? maybe 40? deer just stared at me then trotted away. Only when I cleared my head and the smoke did i figure out that I hadnt seen the grape vine Not sure how, since I had a 2x scope, but i didnt. Bullet barely made it through, jacket separation.

2 or 3 years ago I shot at a small doe trotting across a trail. I knelt down, saw her crossing maybe 25-30 yards away form me, a few dozen feet behind some thin bushes. BIG heavy slow 460grain no excuses conical. Chip shot. Deer ran off. Snow. no blood. gone.

3 clipped twigs, each one lower and lower. we are talking what, 24"-36" of deflection over a few yards. 3 yards maybe.

I am convinced there is no brush bucking.

Too bad you didn't learn anything that was actually correct.

I don't buck brush with bullets. I HATE any shot that does not have a wide clear lane from muzzle to critter. If I see intervening brush, I don't break the sear (with one exception: I take any shot at a wounded animal escaping). But I also have a habit of hunting thick stuff, so my solutions go another route.

Brush is the reason I like low powered scopes with medium to small objective bell mounted as close to bore as possible. I want the bullet to fly along the same path that my eye is looking, especially when I am looking through a hole in brush. In thick stuff I also try to hunt in a way that lets me shoot at calm animals standing still or walking slowly very close to me. IE. On a bobcat at 12 yards or less I deliberately shot through a tennis ball size hole in hard dry twigs, after I did some leaning and looking to find a hole through. Shot a 175 class mule deer at 40 feet through a basketball sized hole as he walked slowly.

I just made a list and recall five critters killed after a bullet hit brush and tumbled, and on none of them did I see the intervening twig etc. before the shot. Sideways entry holes, hits two feet from aiming point, etc. Bad juju. On three mysterious misses, a deflected bullet was the probable cause of the miss.

I only recall two shots in my life that I deliberately shot through brush, at least 30 years ago, and I don't plan to ever take another. One was a tip sprig of fir needles and the other was flat leaves. The fir needles were within 18 inches and more likely a foot of the deer while he stood still 15 yards from me. The 6mm 95 grain Nosler Partition deflected about 45 degrees and luckily still killed the buck. The leaves were flat against the side of a black bear, touching him, and the 180 grain NP from a 30-06 went true.

My current brush battery is a .243 shooting 95 grain NP, and a 30-06 shooting either 180 Swift A-frames or 165 Hornady Interbonds.

Good point about the scope height. It's hard to thread the needle when 0 yards is 1.5" low and you're sighted in 1.5" high at 100. I've started leaving one or two guns sighted in at 75 just in case I decide to venture into the timber.

Most of where I hunt (in the woods at least) is in very thick blackjack oak and cedar thickets. I don't venture into the thick stuff often as it's the most difficult of still hunting propositions due to the 30 yard maximum visibility and the thick bed of leaves left crunchy after a hot, dry Oklahoma summer. I put together a 7.62x39 upper for my AR with a 1.75-6x32 VX-3 With heavy duplex in a cantilever mount that allows me full eye relief with my stock fully collapsed. Total weight slung and loaded is just under 7#, and it shoots the Federal Fusion 123 gr load into 1.25" groups at 100 yards. The entire package is right about 30" long with the stock collapsed and follow up shots are very quick due to the AR platform and the general lack of recoil from the Russian round. I shot a doe this past fall with it at 15 yards and she was dead within 35. The blood trail was the best I have ever followed, with immediate puddles at the area of impact the size of paper plates. Don't know if it was just a great shot or the Federal Fusion is just that good of a bullet.

No rhyme or reason to it it seems. When I hunt the brush I carry short, fast handling guns. Cartridge who cares?

Some of youse guys need to do some actual tests B4 jumping on the BS wagon.. Big subsonic hunks of lead vs a 243,30/06 etc = no contest!







Of course everyone doesn't tote a Sharps around..

You nailed IT. No further discussion is needed.

Classic!

I admit that I have certain rifles to hunt heavy brush areas. I have hunted in these areas for decades and have come to few conclusions about what works and what doesn't. All bullets (large or small) will deflect when striking brush in an erratic and unpredictable way. Shooting "through" brush is a losing proposition.

Most of the rifles I choose are of larger bore and with heavy for caliber bullets. This is NOT because I believe these rifles (or chamberings) are better at "busting brush"....because they are not. I repeat....All bullets will be deflected when striking brush.

However there are advantages to a bigger, heavier bullet. Some (but not all) deflected bullets may still strike an animal. A bigger, heavier bullet has a much better chance of penetrating and killing (or disable) an animal even though the bullet may be "tumbling" and far from the aiming point. It is simply a matter of physics. A 200 grain bullet that has deflected, deformed and quite possibly lost half it's original weight has a much better chance of still being effective that a 100 grain bullet does.

Of course the goal of any experienced hunter is to NOT strike the brush at all. To thread-the-needle and find an opening THROUGH the brush. It has been my experience that large bore rifles tend to "strike harder" and more consistently result in quick kills and short runs by animals hit. This isn't foolproof and small caliber rifles sometimes kill like lightning while bigger bore rifles sometimes result in long blood trails.....but I tend to play the odds and I've found bigger bullets to be more often quicker to kill.

The problem is that sometimes, no matter what rifle/bullet you use.....the animal WILL run. When this happens in thick brush a good blood trail can be critical to recovering your animal. Maybe I am influenced by where I grew up hunting....the Big Thicket of East Texas. I have hunted all over the United States and....not to step on any toes....most hunters have no idea what REALLY thick brush is like.

Compared to where I grew up hunting the thickets of the deep south (in places) are what I would call "thick brush" and some of the Pacific Northwest comes pretty close, but when hunters from the Northeast or Mid-west talk about "cedar breaks" or "swamps" are actually hunting in areas I would consider to be fairly open woods. I've been there and seen it....When you can SEE (not nessisarilly shoot)more than 20 yards....it is NOT what I grew up in.

In those thick areas blood trails are critical. For that reason I tend to start my choices of a "brush gun" at .30 caliber or more....usually more. My favorite guns for thickets are rifles chambered in something like the .35 Remington, .44 Magnum, .375 Winchester and .45-70. These all work very well.....with one exception.

When I grew up we had thousands of acres of this thick brush where a long shot was 50 yards or so. As times have changed and clearcut logging has become the norm....it is quite likely that you may be faced with a shot of 250 yards or more n a days hunt. When that happens those low velocity "brush rounds" become a liability.

What is needed is a round that will perform well in the thick stuff and still have the ability to reach out a bit when needed. For this reason I most often choose something like the .308 Win. or even better the .358

It is just as important to choose a rifle (no matter what it's chambering) that is quick handling. This generally means a fairly short barrel, lightweight rifle that can be brought into action quickly. Quick follow-up shots (although you hope they will never be needed) can sometimes be important as well.

My most often used "brush guns" are a pair of Savage 99s in .308 and .358 chambering. If I "know" (and you never can be sure) the ranges will be less than 150 yards I like a Ruger 44 Carbine, a Remington Model 14 (.35 Rem.) or a Winchester 94 in .375 Win.

A 'dozer blade' works well!!

Texas Rick,
You have explained it very well.
My brother in law shot a buck that was standing in brush. He thought he was aiming for the chest but the deer was looking over its shoulder and he actually shot it in the but.
The .308 penetrated the full length of the deers body luckily.
People that shoot black bear usually prefer the big fat bullets but some guys only have one rifle
that they use for everything.
I will use the .375 with 220 Hornady from now on.
I like it even better than my 35 Whelen.

Whalen, what load do you use in your .375 H & H and the 220 Hornady? I have some but have not loaded any yet.

for "brush" guns i like 33 and up. my favorite is one of my stubby barreled marlin 35's with 200 CL's. decades ago my dad shot a little spike and when we went up to it, we saw that he had shot right through about a 3" tree that he hadn't seen. deer was DRT. not a recommended use, but because it hit the tree dead center it drilled right through and didn't deflect.