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#11105956 04/08/16
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I am going on a semi-guided muzzle loader hunt for Whitetails in Iowa this December. I would like some direction on how much to tip guides on this type of hunt. 5 days with 3 meals a day provided. Thanks in advance for any help.

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Tips....there is a giant thread on AR on tips

Personally I tip but the notion of paying a gratuity/bonus for doing your job goes against the grain and has gotten out of control....


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The last time I used a guide he refused anything extra. I won't even offer next time.


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Did you harvest anything?


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Just tip him what you are comfortable with, some of these guys will tell you leave him your truck keys and a handful of cnotes if the alarm clock went off on time and the bologna sandwiches were damp with cooler water.

Or just a Kimber Montana if the hunt really sucked! smile

You and your guide will both know how much work he has done, and is willing to do to make your hunt one to remember.

Be fair and honest with yourself and enjoy the hunt.


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For an Elk guide, there is a recommendation that you tip around 10%. We use a different method when using a guide through an outfitter. We pay $4,200 to the outfitter for a five day, all meals, horses and guide. Two hunters with one guide. If we do not harvest an Elk and the guide has done a good job, we tip $300. If we harvest a single Elk we tip $400 and if the guide puts us on both a cow and bull, we tip $500. The outfitter has told us that her guides love that method and actually draw straws to see who gets to guide our group. Most of our friends that use guides tell me that they also tip in 10% range using the outfitter cost as a base. Also, we tip the packer if they clean and pack in the kill. We typically give $100 for each elk brought in. We also tip the cook around $50 a week.

Remember, guides usually do not get paid very much and rely on tips.

Hope this helps.

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Tipping depends on success, attitude of guide and your conscience.

I was on a moose hunt in Newfoundland a few years back. It was the trip of a lifetime and I had a guide that did a great job and put me on the biggest bull of the four that week took.

In the end, I gave him a $400 tip and new DMT knife sharpener. I also tipped his wife-who was the cook. They were beside themselves with gratitude.

They needed that money a lot worse than I did and that was part of my decision to give generously.


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interested to see where this thread goes.

so far it looks like 10%, $300-500 total for North America and that will make people ecstatic which means the two replies so far are probably higher than average for North America

Africa it seems as though there is a list of: PH gets XX amount, tracker gets an amount, laundry, cook, skinner, then maybe a few more random people and depending upon which scenario you read that can add up quite a bit

I have yet to go on a guided hunt but tipping 200-500 depending upon the organization, animal, ect... doesn't sound bad. Some of the African tips are a bit off putting to myself.

I think for a semi-guided I would probably be looking to tip the cook & whomever helps me drag the deer out since I'm guessing most of the guide's job will be to say "here is where you are sitting, we will be back for you at a certain time, if you shoot just wait for us to come get you" so not nearly the guiding of 1 on 1 where one will be more mobile and more reliant upon their guide

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Originally Posted by sbhooper
Tipping depends on success, attitude of guide and your conscience.


I'd add to this, "how hard the guide worked to get you your animal." If the guide worked his butt off but you didn't connect, it could be that it wasn't the guide's fault. Especially on mountain hunts where some hunters can't get around so well.

People who are paying for fully-guided trips in NA should factor in 10% as part of the cost, and if you can't afford the extra 10% (kind of hard to make that argument), don't go on the trip. On many trips 10% is a lot more than $300-400. Guides don't make much and they depend on tips.

Of course, after you've factored in the 10% the guide still has to earn it but most do or they don't last long.



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My 2014 African hunt cost just over 10k for the hunt, lodging, meals, PH, tracker, field prep and all of the transportation from the airport, during the hunt and back to the airport.

I tipped my PH and my host family 10% combined with the PH getting most of it.

I did not give the outfitter any gratuity.

Africa is far more expensive than most tend to know....and as soon as you land in Johannesburg the hands are extended as Americans are known globally as tippers and givers of $$$....be careful

After airfare, gun licence, animal permits, hunt package, trophy fees, tips then exporting your crates home a 10k trip turns into 20k



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Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by sbhooper
Tipping depends on success, attitude of guide and your conscience.


I'd add to this, "how hard the guide worked to get you your animal." If the guide worked his butt off but you didn't connect, it could be that it wasn't the guide's fault. Especially on mountain hunts where some hunters can't get around so well.

People who are paying for fully-guided trips in NA should factor in 10% as part of the cost, and if you can't afford the extra 10% (kind of hard to make that argument), don't go on the trip. On many trips 10% is a lot more than $300-400. Guides don't make much and they depend on tips.

Of course, after you've factored in the 10% the guide still has to earn it but most do or they don't last long.



Couldn't agree more smokepole.


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Thanks for all of the responses. So far, it's looking like 10% is the going rate.

Ron


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I hate even responding to these threads because I do guide for a living and a lot of times people dismiss my opinions because of it. Well, it's worth what you paid for it which is nothing so hear goes...

When I was younger I genuinely appreciated the tips because I wasn't making much doing it and it costs a lot of money on proper equipment, vehicle maintenance etc. As I've gotten older and become more financially stable it isn't as big of a deal financially but it is appreciated when offered.

On my NM hunts where I am the guy putting the hunts together and running the hunts I do not expect a tip. Again, it's appreciated when offered but I respectfully decline them and simply ask that they take care of the cook or any other guide that may have assisted in any way. I have always felt that most outfitters do not expect it and would rather have the guides and cooks taken care of. Good help is hard to find and that mentality is crucial to keep those guys happy. I have guys I hunt with quite a bit and they know that the camaraderie and genuine friendship is more than enough and at the end of the day that is worth so much more to me than a few hundred dollars.

10% is fairly standard as to what most clients do. So do more, some do less and some don't offer or feel it's necessary. From a tactical standpoint if you have ambitions to come back I would do 10% or a touch more and ask for the most experienced guide. That's what I have done on the guided hog and oryx hunt I went on. If I go back I know they'll have the best guys wanting to hunt with me

Again, it's different for every hunter, outfitter and guide but I would guess that 50% of the guys I hunt with are truly my friends and trying to tip me would just be awkward but I've been doing it a long time and I am fortunate to be able to pick and choose who I hunt with

If you're going someplace new and don't know the operation I would set aside 10% and let the chips fall where they may and see how it goes


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Originally Posted by JGRaider
Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by sbhooper
Tipping depends on success, attitude of guide and your conscience.


I'd add to this, "how hard the guide worked to get you your animal." If the guide worked his butt off but you didn't connect, it could be that it wasn't the guide's fault. Especially on mountain hunts where some hunters can't get around so well.

People who are paying for fully-guided trips in NA should factor in 10% as part of the cost, and if you can't afford the extra 10% (kind of hard to make that argument), don't go on the trip. On many trips 10% is a lot more than $300-400. Guides don't make much and they depend on tips.

Of course, after you've factored in the 10% the guide still has to earn it but most do or they don't last long.



Couldn't agree more smokepole.


Sorry but the old "if you can't afford the extra 10% don't go" is phugging bull chit..

Some.....most people have to save for years or even pull bank loans to hunt far off places

The 10% mark is become the standard?

Nuts IMO when factoring in all aspects

By all accounts there are many people in your everyday life that "we" need to be giving the 10% gratuity too....

Lots of low wage people in our lives that work hard for us....think?


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Originally Posted by tedthorn
Sorry but the old "if you can't afford the extra 10% don't go" is phugging bull chit..

Some.....most people have to save for years or even pull bank loans to hunt far off places.


No it's not. Unless you're a phugging piker unwilling to pay the guy who makes your success possible.

As I said, the guide has to earn it.

You want to talk about the cost of a trip to Africa, an AK sheep hunt will run you more.

The point being, if you can afford a trip like that, you can afford a good tip for a guide who earns it.



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Originally Posted by tedthorn


Sorry but the old "if you can't afford the extra 10% don't go" is phugging bull chit..

Some.....most people have to save for years or even pull bank loans to hunt far off places

The 10% mark is become the standard?

Nuts IMO when factoring in all aspects

By all accounts there are many people in your everyday life that "we" need to be giving the 10% gratuity too....

Lots of low wage people in our lives that work hard for us....think?


The 10% mark is the standard people typically use. No different that the 15% gratuity in a restaurant and just like tipping a waiter some people do it and some people don't. If you look at the hours put into a hunt, from leaving before daylight and arriving back to camp after dark it's not a lot per hour of effort.

Another thing I hear is "I tip less if I kill on the first day" and that argument is ridiculous IMO. If a guy has scouted his tail off and put in the effort before the hunt started then why ding him. The result is what you desired when you booked the hunt

If you're taking a loan you should wait a few years longer and save but I'm not a financial advisor so take it for what it's worth.

If you don't want to tip a guy for the effort they put in to what you're describing as a potential "once in a lifetime hunt" then don't do it. There's no law that says you have to do it or have to offer

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We used to guide, hunts generally cost about 2500 bucks about 15 years ago.

If I got 100 from someone thats all I wanted at all, it was a nice thing, an extra 100 in the billfold, but you've paid for the hunt already, I'm being paid and if I'm not paid enough thats my issue and one reason I quit.

I HATE the idea of tipping actually... salary should be built in IMHO.

Of course I'm the type that would give you as much as I had effort wise regardless.... I"m either all in or all out.

I did receive a rifle once as a tip, that was about the biggest tip I ever got. The guy was a millionaire and I'd have just as soon had a 100 bill instead... but I still have it somewhere in a safe.


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Originally Posted by rost495
We used to guide, hunts generally cost about 2500 bucks about 15 years ago.

If I got 100 from someone thats all I wanted at all....


Where did you guide and what kind of hunt?



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The outfitters and restaurant owners got it figured out don't they?

Hire a staff that the client does or doesn't pay for....and leaves it on the clients conscience.

One day Walmart might expect the customer to tip the cashier....to cover the salary shortfall

I have been on 4 guided hunts and used the 10% "rule" but my PH wouldn't accept it as instructed by him I spread the 10% around

By all means...spend your money any way you wish....bank loan....pocket money or savings



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Originally Posted by Ohio7x57
Thanks for all of the responses. So far, it's looking like 10% is the going rate.

Ron


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Wondering here. The OP says it is a semi guided hunt.Does that mean then the tip should be a semi tip?


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Originally Posted by tedthorn
I have been on 4 guided hunts and used the 10% "rule" but my PH wouldn't accept it.....


Probably because he doesn't depend on tips to make his living.



Originally Posted by tedthorn
The outfitters and restaurant owners got it figured out don't they?

Hire a staff that the client does or doesn't pay for....and leaves it on the clients conscience.


Tipping really has nothing to do with restaurant owners or outfitters. It has to do with taking care of people who perform a service for you and depend on tips to make a living.

Everyone knows that wait staff in a restaurant depend on tips. The way I see it, if you resent that and don't want to pay, then don't eat at restaurants.

Tipping allows you to either give a modest amount for mediocre service, or give extra for extraordinary service.

And as far as "leaving it on the clients conscience," tipping is one of the few truly altruistic acts a person can accomplish on a daily basis. You can leave no tip, a modest tip, or a few extra bucks for the person who waits on you. There's no requirement for you to do it, and no consequences if you leave a chintzy tip. It's a good feeling to tip well if you look at it that way.



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10% for the guide, 5% to the cook if the food is excellent.


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A wise man tips the cook right after that first cup of good coffee. smile


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A wise man tips the bartender when he sits down at the bar....



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It just goes to show you what a short supply of wisdom today's world really possesses. smile


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Originally Posted by smokepole
A wise man tips the bartender when he sits down at the bar....


That's worked before HD cameras over every bar and pour meters on the bottles


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Originally Posted by tedthorn
Originally Posted by smokepole
A wise man tips the bartender when he sits down at the bar....


That's worked before HD cameras over every bar and pour meters on the bottles


No where I go or have been have I seen that.


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Originally Posted by tedthorn
Originally Posted by smokepole
A wise man tips the bartender when he sits down at the bar....


That's worked before HD cameras over every bar and pour meters on the bottles


Ok, a wise man doesn't go to a bar.


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He does If he wants a drink.



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Originally Posted by EdM
Originally Posted by tedthorn
Originally Posted by smokepole
A wise man tips the bartender when he sits down at the bar....


That's worked before HD cameras over every bar and pour meters on the bottles


No where I go or have been have I seen that.


Then you don't go out nearly as much as we do and since you routinely live out of country I know you don't visit the same clubs we do

The pour meter is ultra common. Bar owners install them then the camera guy can count how many times your bartender turns over the bottle.

Bar owners do this to prevent bartenders from stealing alcohol for better tips

http://alcoholcontrols.com/posliqporspo.html


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I've been a part time guide for 12 seasons. Meaning I also have a full time job that I take time off from to guide.

Elk, sheep, and mule deer. Hunts are pack in wall tent type and drive to a lodge and hunt horse back or out of truck.

To be honest I hope for a 10% tip. I know how hard I work, I'm not some bum that doesn't know hunting or the country. And I can carry on a polite conversation in most circles.

Both outfitters I've worked for agree. One of them has told his clients that if they aren't going to tip 10% that he'd like an explanation.

I once saw a client I didn't guide in camp that shot the biggest bull of the week and a buck not tip a cent. The outfitter asked him about it and he said he couldn't afford a tip. I personally know his guide and he deserves a good tip. I assure you that if he ever tried to come back I would refuse to guide him. Other poor tippers are thought of the same way.

I agree with the thought that if you can't afford a tip you can't afford the hunt.

I've never been on a guided hunt. If I ever can go preparing for at least a 10% tip will be part of it. But I'll also be the first to say that if your guide is a bum for whatever reason that you should reduce the tip. I do the same in restaurants with waitresses.

The two different elk hunts I guide are at least $2000 different in cost, more if you include the 2x1 hunts that one of the outfitters offers. The more expensive hunts often have clients that have also purchased a commissioner tag which are $8-12k. These tags are tough to draw through the normal drawing. I almost always do better percentage-wise with clients from the outfitter who has the less expensive hunts. I'm not sure why.

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Are you paid by the outfitter or do you rely on Tipping for your guiding pay?


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Originally Posted by tedthorn
Then you don't go out nearly as much as we do and since you routinely live out of country I know you don't visit the same clubs we do

The pour meter is ultra common. Bar owners install them then the camera guy can count how many times your bartender turns over the bottle.

Bar owners do this to prevent bartenders from stealing alcohol for better tips.


I guess I should clarify. When I give a bartender a tip, I'm not asking for anything extra. Just good service. I figure if I'm gonna give him a good tip, he may as well know that while he's serving me, not afterward.



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Originally Posted by tedthorn
Are you paid by the outfitter or do you rely on Tipping for your guiding pay?


I'm paid a daily wage by the outfitter.

I'll also add that who my guide was going to be would be a huge part of my pre booking research. I would ask question after question about it.

Some guides are great with horses, know the country very well, know the game, but they are anti social inbred reprobates that couldn't get along with a golden retriever. Or they might be great around the fire, but couldn't find their way back to camp on the trail. You want one that is good at all aspects.

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Originally Posted by sbhooper
Tipping depends on success, attitude of guide and your conscience.

I was on a moose hunt in Newfoundland a few years back. It was the trip of a lifetime and I had a guide that did a great job and put me on the biggest bull of the four that week took.

In the end, I gave him a $400 tip and new DMT knife sharpener. I also tipped his wife-who was the cook. They were beside themselves with gratitude.

They needed that money a lot worse than I did and that was part of my decision to give generously.


Good man. Great post.

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Neither the guide or the hunter should depend on the % of the tip to do their best during the hunt. Thats why we call it hunting.


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The difference between the guide and the hunter is, one's on vacation, and the other is at work.



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Originally Posted by smokepole
The difference between the guide and the hunter is, one's on vacation, and the other is at work.


He doesn't get it. Next thing he'll say is "you're still hunting" or "find another job that pays better". He obviously has no clue what the margins are on some of these hunts. From paying for cooks, food, fuel, permit fees, paying to be licensed, bonded and insured, good guides and the good ones do cost more, equipment, maintenance etc...

The outfitters, at least the good ones, try to price their hunts competitively while providing great guides and great hunts. Margins are slim and it's a difficult industry to make a living in.

Fact is, a guy that comes out west and does one hunt a year will NEVER know what goes into providing a quality hunt and experience for a client and will argue all day that tipping shouldn't be a part of the equation. I knew it was a lost cause when he argued about the "bartender" scenario offered above. I tip a bartender early and I tip him big. To me it's about getting quality and prompt service, to Ted it's about getting extra alcohol without having to pay the restaurant for it. Pretty much tells me all I need to know...

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Yup Drum....


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I've been in camps where a hunter or two believe that a tip means they can sit on their a~sses and whine about being cold but never lift a finger to cut firewood, or give a hand with the dinner time dishes, I would rather hunt with men that know how to do camp work then those who know the stock market.
Some guys never figure out why the outfitters that they hunted with last year are booked up when they call and want to come back.


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I've been on a few guided hunts, did my homework beforehand, and had awesome guides/outfitters at very reasonable rates. In every case the guide and the outfitter have been one and the same. If I tipped a $1000 I'm not sure it would have been enough to adequately cover the preparation time that went into the hunt alone. With that said, these guys did not charge a premium. They were all a modestly priced hunt. Look around. If the going rate is $5000 and your guide charged $2500, whether an old timer who has not caught on to the rising rates or an outfit getting off the ground, and they did a great job, then by all means be prepared for a tip. If your guide demanded a premium and charged $7000 for the same hunt, but you bit it off because of the reputation, then I would have a much tighter grip on my wallet.

I've never felt as if I've tipped enough.

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Originally Posted by ctsmith
If the going rate is $5000 and your guide charged $2500 and did a great job, then by all means be prepared for a tip. If your guide demanded a premium and charged $7000 for the same hunt, but you bit it off because of the reputation, then I would have a much tighter grip on my wallet.


The thing is, lots of times the cost of the hunt is going to the outfitter (not the guide), be it $7,000, $2,500, or whatever. Sometimes the guide and the outfitter are one and the same, but often they're not. When the guide is working for the outfitter, he's depending on tips because the fee for the hunt is not his to keep, set, or negotiate.



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Smoke, I hear ya regarding the outfitter/guide and had edited my post to qualify such while you were typing. grin

If I were booking a hunt with an outfitter who would not be the guide, I would simply ask of tipping expectations beforehand and factor it into the cost of the hunt.

All these things should be discussed up front. I'm sure it is a continuous saga in the industry. Its simple really. COMMUNICATION!

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Precisely!



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Most people that go on their first hunt have absolutely no idea what to expect, hunters, hunting with strangers in a unknown place, communication can spell the difference in a lifetime friendships, and a disastrous hunt that ends with disappointment on every ones part.


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No one seems to have mentioned due diligence on the part of the hunter. Asking for references of former clients of the outfitter/guide. A couple of questions to the former clients might go a long way to letting the prospective hunter know what is "expected" of them regarding tips or if they might even be "deserved". Then again, if the answer is they don't deserve a tip, perhaps better to find another situation for your expensive hunt, no?

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Originally Posted by huntsonora
Originally Posted by smokepole
The difference between the guide and the hunter is, one's on vacation, and the other is at work.


He doesn't get it. Next thing he'll say is "you're still hunting" or "find another job that pays better". He obviously has no clue what the margins are on some of these hunts. From paying for cooks, food, fuel, permit fees, paying to be licensed, bonded and insured, good guides and the good ones do cost more, equipment, maintenance etc...

The outfitters, at least the good ones, try to price their hunts competitively while providing great guides and great hunts. Margins are slim and it's a difficult industry to make a living in.

Fact is, a guy that comes out west and does one hunt a year will NEVER know what goes into providing a quality hunt and experience for a client and will argue all day that tipping shouldn't be a part of the equation. I knew it was a lost cause when he argued about the "bartender" scenario offered above. I tip a bartender early and I tip him big. To me it's about getting quality and prompt service, to Ted it's about getting extra alcohol without having to pay the restaurant for it. Pretty much tells me all I need to know...


Then you obviously missed a couple things along the way....but


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I have been in the guiding and outfitting business for nearly 40 years and my personal opinion is that as an outfitter I don't accept tips for any hunts unless I was also the guide. When offered I tell them to give it to the camp help who were integral in making their hunt special.
From the guide and camp help's perspective there is a huge difference between sharing a camp with a "client", who wants or needs to be waited on all the time - and a "hunter", who is happy and willing to pitch in and do everything necessary to make the hunt successful and is also interested in learning about the area and the game.

For many clients 15% might seem marginal and for real hunters any tip is appreciated.



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I have never been on a guided big game hunt but have been to a couple fishing lodges and plantation type deer hunts . I don't mind a 10% Or so tip to the " guide" but for some of the folks in the business and I see it here in some of the replys is I don't really want to spend my trip listening to how tuff your business is. I don't set your rates I just pay them. So I don't really want to hear about " how thin margins are in your business" or about how you broke a $150 prop last week or broke a good scope last week. I didn't break your prop and as a financial guy that has done a lot of budgeting and overhead analysis i figure you should have calculated those sort of things into your overhead. However it is All to common to hear about all the woes of being in the outfitter guide business when using their services.

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I happen to camp at a trail head that an outfitter leaves all his trucks/trailers at and all his clients vehicles.I am usually there when the hunters are packed out.

There is always lot of glad handing, handshaking, praises,etc. and then money is passed around.

All the clients get in their vehicles and take off. If they would hear what the guides, packers, and outfitter say about them, after they leave, that money would still be in their pocket that's for sure. Pretty too faced


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Originally Posted by bangeye
I have never been on a guided big game hunt but have been to a couple fishing lodges and plantation type deer hunts . I don't mind a 10% Or so tip to the " guide" but for some of the folks in the business and I see it here in some of the replys is I don't really want to spend my trip listening to how tuff your business is. I don't set your rates I just pay them. So I don't really want to hear about " how thin margins are in your business" or about how you broke a $150 prop last week or broke a good scope last week. I didn't break your prop and as a financial guy that has done a lot of budgeting and overhead analysis i figure you should have calculated those sort of things into your overhead. However it is All to common to hear about all the woes of being in the outfitter guide business when using their services.


Read all of my responses before you tell me I'm bitching about that stuff. I already stated that I don't accept tips but will go to bat for younger guides in the business. I never mention this to a client on a hunt but on a message board asking a specific question regarding the tradition of tipping I will absolutely toss in my .02


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Originally Posted by saddlesore
If they would hear what the guides, packers, and outfitter say about them, after they leave, that money would still be in their pocket that's for sure. Pretty too faced


If the guides put in the work they deserve the tip, period. Personally, I wouldn't want to put up with a lot of the stuff they deal with. If they want to blow off steam after the hunt amongst themselves it's really nobody else's business. I've been on two guided hunts, one for a son and one for me. I'm sure we gave the guides a few things to laugh at or bitch about. Doesn't bother me, they earned it.



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Every year we have this thread pop-up.
Not sure if I have ever given my 2 cents or not.

I mostly hunt DIY. I have a great camp, every thing you would need. Except for livestock.

I have been on both sides of the tipping exchange. I did some guide work when I lived in Montana. Some clients were great. Some, not so much. I treated everyone of them to the best of my ability. When you are a guide you are also an entertainer among other things. You have to be ready to answer any question that my come up and, that's everyday. (and that's okay.)

As far as tips go. I have been tipped very well and not so much if you were just looking at $$$ amount. What I tried to do each and every time is to make a new friend. A friendship that will last a long time. Those were the blessings for me.

When I go on a guided trip. I tip the help that worked for me. (like) Cook, Packer, Guide, other camp helpers.
Just say I spent approx $7K for a hunt. This is how it might break down,
Guide, $600.00 Plus a gift. I like giving a gift with money. Soon the money will be gone. Yet, he would still have that gift I gave them.
Cook, around $250-300 I use $50.00 a day as a guide for me.
Packer, $200.00 +/-
Camp helper $100.00 +/-
I think I always go over 10%. I always give with a smile and good heart. Heck, I was just hunting in a nice camp with some great people. I left feeling very happy.
If you didn't have a good camp, maybe you didn't look into your outfitter as well as you should have.

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You all take care.

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So, I went against my better judgement by even responding to this thread. I was hoping I could give some perspective to the OP's question and I'm probably not the guy to do that because I am in the business. Apologies to Ted Thorn if I offended him, I know he's a good dude and I have some friends that I put a lot of value in that hunt with him every year and hold him in highest regard.

What it boils down to is that 10% is the number that seems to be a "standard" and I'm not the one that came up with that. Tipping is an individual decision in all areas from restaurants to valets to hunting guides and more. If you want to do it then get after it, if you don't then thats your choice as well. Hunts are expensive, I get that. Do what you want and as it is in most aspects of life it all seems to average out in the end

To the OP, best of luck on your hunt

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I have been fortunate enough take guided hunts in several countries, including the US.

I have always used 10% as my midpoint. I never recall not offering anything, but I certainly have given more, if I thought it was warranted.

Tips were REALLY appreciated in Africa. New Zealand and Spain, not so much.(In my experience.)

In both 2013 and 2014 on guided, fair chase, wilderness hunts in Wyoming, both my hunting partner and I shot 6x6 bull elk with the same guide each year. I know he worked his ass off and we decided to tip him over and above the 10% "camp" tip which includes cooks, packers, wranglers, camp jacks, etc.

I, personally, am not big on tipping the owner/outfitter, as he/she is the one setting the prices. I think the best way to show your appreciation to them is to rebook, if possible

donsm70.

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I must say if someone approached me and said "if you don't tip my people 10% you need to explain it to me" I would probably be forced to inform him that he just explained it to himself, in my opinion the only good way to bring up tipping is let the client ask the outfitter "so what is an average or expected tip, I might not be able to meet the average since this is once in a lifetime but I will tip what I can"

I don't mind seeing the "tips" in the section of what isn't included in a hunt, I enjoy the insight of the "tipping" threads since it really does vary depending upon culture, income, expense of the hunt, ect...

BUT in my eyes when a restaurant "includes" a 15%, 18, 20% tip for any party over XX people that annoys me a bit and an outfitter telling me "you are expected to tip XX percent" would annoy me too.

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Originally Posted by Tim_B
I must say if someone approached me and said "if you don't tip my people 10% you need to explain it to me" I would probably be forced to inform him that he just explained it to himself, in my opinion the only good way to bring up tipping is let the client ask the outfitter "so what is an average or expected tip, I might not be able to meet the average since this is once in a lifetime but I will tip what I can"

I don't mind seeing the "tips" in the section of what isn't included in a hunt, I enjoy the insight of the "tipping" threads since it really does vary depending upon culture, income, expense of the hunt, ect...

BUT in my eyes when a restaurant "includes" a 15%, 18, 20% tip for any party over XX people that annoys me a bit and an outfitter telling me "you are expected to tip XX percent" would annoy me too.


I agree completely. and for the "included" gratuity , it is still a gratuity and does not have to be paid if you are not happy with the service.



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Originally Posted by Tim_B
I must say if someone approached me and said "if you don't tip my people 10% you need to explain it to me" I would probably be forced to inform him that he just explained it to himself, in my opinion the only good way to bring up tipping is let the client ask the outfitter "so what is an average or expected tip, I might not be able to meet the average since this is once in a lifetime but I will tip what I can"

I don't mind seeing the "tips" in the section of what isn't included in a hunt, I enjoy the insight of the "tipping" threads since it really does vary depending upon culture, income, expense of the hunt, ect...

BUT in my eyes when a restaurant "includes" a 15%, 18, 20% tip for any party over XX people that annoys me a bit and an outfitter telling me "you are expected to tip XX percent" would annoy me too.


I will not ever add a gratuity to a hunt, I will not ever talk about tips in front of clients and I would NEVER confront a guy if he chooses not to tip.

The only time I ever discuss tips with a client is when they come to me with a direct question regarding tips for the cooks and their guide. In my answer to them I let them know what most guys do and that a gratuity is not necessary but is appreciated by the cooks and guides but if they choose not to its their prerogative. I hate that conversation because I don't want to make clients feel bad.

It's easier to discuss it on an open forum like we are here

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Originally Posted by huntsonora
Originally Posted by smokepole
The difference between the guide and the hunter is, one's on vacation, and the other is at work.


He doesn't get it. Next thing he'll say is "you're still hunting" or "find another job that pays better". He obviously has no clue what the margins are on some of these hunts. From paying for cooks, food, fuel, permit fees, paying to be licensed, bonded and insured, good guides and the good ones do cost more, equipment, maintenance etc...

The outfitters, at least the good ones, try to price their hunts competitively while providing great guides and great hunts. Margins are slim and it's a difficult industry to make a living in.

Fact is, a guy that comes out west and does one hunt a year will NEVER know what goes into providing a quality hunt and experience for a client and will argue all day that tipping shouldn't be a part of the equation. I knew it was a lost cause when he argued about the "bartender" scenario offered above. I tip a bartender early and I tip him big. To me it's about getting quality and prompt service, to Ted it's about getting extra alcohol without having to pay the restaurant for it. Pretty much tells me all I need to know...


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I've enjoyed watching this thread. Although I've never taken a guided hunt, I've taken fishing trips.

I understand the issues with tipping. I have a few friends that are guides or charter boat owners in Alaska.

And here are my thoughts. This is just my own personal opinion.

Just like a waitress at a restaurant may be making minimum wages, a guide usually is not making a lot of money either. The owners and operators are making the majority.

And just as a restaurant is selling a service. They have costs too, that are built into the price of your food. Electricity, pots, pans, uniforms etc.

An outfitters has costs also. Tents, camp stoves, trespass fee's for private land access.

The guide, if he/she has done their work PRIOR to you arriving has also had fee's. Gas to and from scouting trips. Quality glass to spot with, food while scouting, tires etc.

My personal opinion is just like tipping at a restaurant. If I feel that I've received poor service, I may leave a poor tip, due to the above mentioned cost's of scouting etc. I also make sure that I inform the manager of the restaurant.

If I feel that I've received good service, or great service, I leave a tip based on that. And if the service is exceptional, I advise the owner/operator of the charter or guide service.

My tipping is not based on the success of the hunt as weather, animal migration, things that could be considered "Acts of God" and are out of control of the guide. As well as the guide may have lead me to a great location, and I may have "blown" or missed the shot based upon poor skills and not doing my part.

If I feel that the guide has put his heart, his soul, and given me a true 110% effort into making my hunt a success, then I tip based upon that effort.

As for Africa, well... I've wanted to go there for a LONG time. And just as a few have stated, by the time you pay transportation, shipping of any trophies, hotel costs for any travel as a tourist not associated with the hunt, I'm sure that cost's can double or triple from the price of a hunt. Maybe I'll make it there in the next 5-6 years.

Speaking of Africa, I lived in Canada 30+ years ago. I was acquainted with a wealthy gentleman that spent 3-5 months a year hunting the world. Mostly Africa.

He stated that once he had found a quality outfitter that he always treated them fairly with gratuities. This included everyone on staff. He said that after his first or second time, they (the staff) would remember him, and treat him like a king (remembering his kindness and tipping). The would give him many extra things that other hunters may not have received or experienced.

He also had enough wealth that he always had 3-4 custom rifles being built at a time. At the end of each hunting season, he would give a rifle to the guide that he felt gave a true 110%. I'm sure that some of these rifles we worth $40k-$50k.

Anyway, there are not too many of us that can do that, but we can show our appreciation if a quality service was rendered.

JMHO

Jeff


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I'm not really calling anybody out but I'm just saying I've been on probably a dozen fishing trips ,goose hunting trips etc. and at least 3/4 of them I felt like I was being campaigned for a tip from the get go. in only two instances did I not tip the guy one was a fishing guide in Key West that started bitching before the boat was untied and the second was on a goose hunt in western Ky where the two guys calling regaled each other about how they degraded their wives the night before. I guess if you count the suppressing of the urge to kick the crap out of them or drive the butt of my shotgun into the bridge of their nose maybe they did get a tip. At any rate for those of you in the industry just note I really don't care what you spent on your property lease or on gas every month , or how much it cost to repair your truck , boat motor etc. you shouldn't make your clients feel like you think they are just there sponging off your benevolence and sacrifice to provide them this opportunity despite them paying you the stated fee which may be what they consider a good amount of money. That's the other side of the tipping question that's all.

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Originally Posted by bangeye
for those of you in the industry just note I really don't care what you spent on your property lease or on gas every month , or how much it cost to repair your truck , boat motor etc. you shouldn't make your clients feel like you think they are just there sponging off your benevolence and sacrifice to provide them this opportunity despite them paying you the stated fee which may be what they consider a good amount of money. That's the other side of the tipping question.




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I think your experience just shows that guides, like their customers and like waiters, are human and every now and then you get one who's an a$$hole.

So tip them acordingly. It's not rocket science. On my latest trip, the only time the subject of tipping came up was when I asked the outfitter about it. Same with the top-of-the line gear the guide purchased. I was interested in how much it cost.

Maybe if you'd asked the question first your guides wouldnt have felt the need to drop the hints.



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While I was raised better than to ever hint at tipping to a client, or even think about doing so, I also have come to rely on at least some folks providing me with a gratuity as a young guide that in turn uses the money I make guiding to pay for school. I've found that because I try to give everybody I have the opportunity to hunt with 110% of my effort and albeit, small, skill set- things usually take care of themselves, and if I don't deserve a tip at the end of the day, that's fine and dandy too.

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I took the Dalai Lama on a hunt once..... Long shooter the Lama..... LONG.

At the end of the week he tried to stiff me..... so I was like: "Hey.... Lama.... How bout a little somethin'.... you know, for the effort?"

He said: "Ther'll be no tip..... but on your death bed you'll have total consciousness."

So I got that goin' for me...... better than 10-15% IMO....

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Tanner, I agree with your post 100%. Most hunters understand how it works, and don't need reminders or hints that guides depend on tips. But some don't and every guide has stories about busting their ass and being stiffed.

I guess the flip side is, every outfitter has stories about guides who "didn't work out."

I can understand where bangeye is coming from, and the not-so-subtle hints could be annoying especially from a guide who doesn't deserve a big tip.

But I can also understand why some guides feel the need to "educate" their hunters. If I was a guide and got stiffed a few times, that might make me more free with advice and hints. Lots of guys would never do that, but some would. And some hunters probably need to hear it.






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Having somebody constantly hint at being tipped would certainly detract from the experience for me, and would make me quite a bit less likely to actually tip them... In my opinion it would make sense for the outfitter to mention something to the client about tipping if they care to do so.

I also understand not all hunts and/or guides are the same... Somebody that sits with somebody in a deer stand as a "guide" and your guide from last August warrant a bit different reward I think, as far as pure effort and sweat equity go....

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Originally Posted by Tanner
While I was raised better than to ever hint at tipping to a client, or even think about doing so, I also have come to rely on at least some folks providing me with a gratuity as a young guide that in turn uses the money I make guiding to pay for school. I've found that because I try to give everybody I have the opportunity to hunt with 110% of my effort and albeit, small, skill set- things usually take care of themselves, and if I don't deserve a tip at the end of the day, that's fine and dandy too.

Tanner


Tanner,

I doubt you care about my opinion but that is a great post.

Also, your post to the new backpack hunter asking for advice was also a great post and was very helpful.

I appreciate a great post with insight and no stick


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Originally Posted by Tanner
Having somebody constantly hint at being tipped would certainly detract from the experience for me, and would make me quite a bit less likely to actually tip them... In my opinion it would make sense for the outfitter to mention something to the client about tipping if they care to do so.

I also understand not all hunts and/or guides are the same... Somebody that sits with somebody in a deer stand as a "guide" and your guide from last August warrant a bit different reward I think, as far as pure effort and sweat equity go....

Tanner


No doubt. It's not hard to recognize effort, and make that distinction.



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Originally Posted by Dogshooter
I took the Dalai Lama on a hunt once..... Long shooter the Lama..... LONG.

At the end of the week he tried to stiff me..... so I was like: "Hey.... Lama.... How bout a little somethin'.... you know, for the effort?"

He said: "Ther'll be no tip..... but on your death bed you'll have total consciousness."

So I got that goin' for me...... better than 10-15% IMO....

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Now that I am starting my own guiding business, I expect zero tips as I am the owner/operator and reaping the reward. I am going to have a "No Tip" policy for myself. If they want to tip my wife, that's fine as she is doing a ton of work cooking, cleaning, and working logistics. When I worked for someone else, tips were very important, as it was the only reason I could afford to guide.

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Calvin,

Have you and yours considered rolling the estimated tips into your base pricing and making a firm "no tip" policy?

I've found most people that are going on vacation really like to see a true "total package" price. I would think seeing "no tips, no exceptions" would make a lot of people feel relieved and they'd be happy to pay the perceived extra price.

I think a lot of people simply do not know how to tip. And they're afraid to ask.



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I've only been on a few guided hunts, but some of them I actually felt like a hinderance if I tried to help skin or do whatever else. I hope I didn't leave them the impression that I was one of "those" hunters. These have all been overseas hunts though, where trackers and skinners were paid to do all of that work. If I did a guided moose hunt or something like that here in America I am sure I wouldn't be interfering with anything if I tried to help out.

To the OP, I normally go with the standard ~10% tip, assuming everything went well. Every guided hunt I have been on did go well, I suspect at least partly because I didn't expect to be waited on all the time and I was always willing to go home empty-handed.

I will say though, I do not guide anymore for a reason. It seemed like I was just babysitting a bunch of grown dudes. I didn't care that they didn't help with chores...after all it was their vacation and they were paying for it, but the constant negative attitude/not willing to hike/always bitching about things really turned me off of guiding. Not all clients were that way obviously, but many were.



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Originally Posted by T_Inman
I've only been on a few guided hunts, but some of them I actually felt like a hinderance if I tried to help skin or do whatever else. I hope I didn't leave them the impression that I was one of "those" hunters. These have all been overseas hunts though, where trackers and skinners were paid to do all of that work. If I did a guided moose hunt or something like that here in America I am sure I wouldn't be interfering with anything if I tried to help out.

To the OP, I normally go with the standard ~10% tip, assuming everything went well. Every guided hunt I have been on did go well, I suspect at least partly because I didn't expect to be waited on all the time and I was always willing to go home empty-handed.

I will say though, I do not guide anymore for a reason. It seemed like I was just babysitting a bunch of grown dudes. I didn't care that they didn't help with chores...after all it was their vacation and they were paying for it, but the constant negative attitude/not willing to hike/always bitching about things really turned me off of guiding. Not all clients were that way obviously, but many were.



I would never behave that way. As long as I leave w/ an elk like Ted's or a mule deer like Drummond has as an avatar, I'm gonna be satisfied - guranteed no bitchin....

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Let's say you do a guided hunt that costs close to $20,000. Cush lodging, large trophies, non-stop action, say a trophy bull elk hunt on a well managed ranch. You know your guide is working hard, pleasant to be around, spent 5 days unpaid scouting for you, is only making $200/day as a guide. But even though you're a billionaire, you've got about 20 grand into this already, not counting your jet fuel, paying for your pilot, and another employee to come with. It's expensive. What do you tip your guide if you're skunked? What do you tip if you spend 5 full days hunting and connect on a b&c bull on the last day?

Curious..

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I'm glad you asked that question. I found myself in that exact situation just last year, and wasn't sure what to do. I'll be very interested in the answers.



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Not sure if this answers GH's question or not, but it is a good one.

First year I went to Sonora, MX was in 2006, and to make a long story short, connected on a giant 214" gross B&C typical the first hour of the first morning's hunt.

The next year I went back to the same ranch, hunted 6 days and shot a 165" buck due to mistake of both guides. They were the first to admit it. Sometimes things happen so I wasn't upset about it.

I tipped everyone who helped in camp, guides, etc the same amount on both trips, which was more than "normal".


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Bottom line is some people are just cheap and others generous.

I'm dealing with this situation in sorts with my boat and taking people fishing, I have a couple regulars that fish with me all summer twice a week or more and never even attempt or offer to pay for gas etc. I don't accept money usually but these guys get a $600 fishing charter when they fish with me. We fish tournaments and I split winnings with them and they don't offer to cover expense for fuel, bait,tackle etc...it's getting old fast

Everyone else that fishes on my boat tries to shove money in my pocket or hide it in my vehicle as I won't accept it from them, one guy brought me dry aged steaks and veal from his work place.

On a recent hunt of 4 days with a large group that the guides busted hump on I was embarrassed to find out some hunters tipped $20.I liken it to having a great dinner with excellent food and service getting the tab for $250 and leaving $5 on the table

Any ways I believe good service and busting tail should be compensated and I do better than average because I appreciate it.




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I first mated for a charter boat buddy last summer
His dad who was his normal mate had surgery so I offered to help for free,he said he'd split the tip with me.
The charter cost $600 and the tip was $150
Honestly that was the funnest $75 bucks I ever made
Great family that chartered the boat, a father 2 sons and a daughter. The one son was a marine and being deployed 2 days later to the middle east. I drove the boat,set lines and netted fish and took photos.

The marine with a 28lb King

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Family shot with some fish they kept

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Originally Posted by tedthorn
Originally Posted by bangeye
for those of you in the industry just note I really don't care what you spent on your property lease or on gas every month , or how much it cost to repair your truck , boat motor etc. you shouldn't make your clients feel like you think they are just there sponging off your benevolence and sacrifice to provide them this opportunity despite them paying you the stated fee which may be what they consider a good amount of money. That's the other side of the tipping question.




Did you have anything to add to this or were you just quoting this for the sake of quoting it? I don't think there is anybody here that disagrees with what Bagneye said...

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dvdegeorge,

Your experience reminds me of a guy I had a business meal with. I don't remember whether he was the client or me. I left enough to pay the bill and asked him to "pick up the tip." He looked down at the table and said, "You didn't leave one." blush


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Haven't read most of this thread.

If I needed a tip to remain a viable business, I would include it in the price of the service. If it's needed to survive, it's not a tip, it's called profit margin.

If your business is viable without a tip, then it's a bonus to receive one and should not be considered mandatory with every client.

It all seems so simple to me.


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I'm sure that many subtleties are lost on you.



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Originally Posted by Fireball2
Haven't read most of this thread.


And it was so wonderfully reflected in your response. smile


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Originally Posted by Greenhorn
only making $200/day as a guide


Only?


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Originally Posted by tedthorn
Originally Posted by EdM
Originally Posted by tedthorn
Originally Posted by smokepole
A wise man tips the bartender when he sits down at the bar....


That's worked before HD cameras over every bar and pour meters on the bottles


No where I go or have been have I seen that.


Then you don't go out nearly as much as we do and since you routinely live out of country I know you don't visit the same clubs we do Wrong and, no, I just visit better clubs that do exist outside the US.

The pour meter is ultra common. Bar owners install them then the camera guy can count how many times your bartender turns over the bottle. Not where I go. In the US or out.

Bar owners do this to prevent bartenders from stealing alcohol for better tips

http://alcoholcontrols.com/posliqporspo.html


I suggest you get a better job...


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Originally Posted by tedthorn
Originally Posted by Greenhorn
only making $200/day as a guide


Only?


$200 a day is not a good wage as a guide, if you aren't averaging at least $200 a day in tips. The season are too short, and the benefits aren't there like year round employment. Get really good at what you are guiding and be sought after, and you should be pulling in at least 5 bills a day working for someone else, including tips. Clients will be throwing tip money at you to make sure you are there the next year. The wealthier clients know how it works. If you own your own business, the rewards get better than that, but the risk is much higher.

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Originally Posted by tedthorn
Originally Posted by Greenhorn
only making $200/day as a guide


Only?


Yeah, only.... You don't get paid to scout and the best guides have years of experience in a given area and 1-2 days scouting to every day they spend with a client in that year alone.

Last year I had 23 days scouting for 3 days of hunting for one clients sheep hunt. And You sarcastically ask "only" $200/day? F me that's funny

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I brought this topic up in this mornings shop meeting.

In the meeting of 4, I was the only person that has been on any guided hunts. So tipping a guide was news to the rest of the tool shop.

One guy snickers.....then asks

"Tomorrow is trash day. Should I tape a $5 to the can? My guy works hard and I am sure he doesn't make much money"

Then another toolmaker added several other services in our weekly life we are leaving out of the loop.



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Originally Posted by huntsonora
Originally Posted by tedthorn
Originally Posted by Greenhorn
only making $200/day as a guide


Only?


Yeah, only.... You don't get paid to scout and the best guides have years of experience in a given area and 1-2 days scouting to every day they spend with a client in that year alone.

Last year I had 23 days scouting for 3 days of hunting for one clients sheep hunt. And You sarcastically ask "only" $200/day? F me that's funny


Sarcasm?

Not at all.......I make just north of about half of that figure per day

So if guides make $200 a day they are not paid well?

We no doubt live in different economic areas of the USA


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Originally Posted by tedthorn
I brought this topic up in this mornings shop meeting.

In the meeting of 4, I was the only person that has been on any guided hunts. So tipping a guide was news to the rest of the tool shop.

One guy snickers.....then asks

"Tomorrow is trash day. Should I tape a $5 to the can? My guy works hard and I am sure he doesn't make much money"

Then another toolmaker added several other services in our weekly life we are leaving out of the loop.



Seriously? You get your information from three guys who've never been on a guided hunt and think that's somehow relevant, and worth repeating on a forum with a bunch of guys who are either guides or have done multiple guided trips?

What's next, asking them how to treat a medical condition?

And here's a news flash for you--your trash men do work hard, they do appreciate tips, and a tip now and then (besides being a decent thing to do) pays back in spades. My wife always gives our trash men a card and a small tip at Christmas and they love her for it. A few times a year we will be out of town, or forget to roll the big trash can out to the curb. They will go into our back yard, find it, empty it, and return it to the back yard. And when I have a bunch of extra stuff to get rid of like dozens of leaf bags in the fall, they're not supposed to take it without charging me extra.

But guess what, they do. We're not asking for special treatment when we give them a tip, just being decent human beings. And they return the favor.

I wouldn't go into a restaurant and order a meal if I didn't intend on tipping the wait staff, because that's how they make their living and it's just a $hitty thing to do to a person.

I don't see why the same thing is so hard to understand when it comes to guides.

And PS, tell your buddy that no, he should not tape a $5 to the trash can. He should walk out, look them in the eye, say "thank you" for a thankless job, and put the money in their hands.



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Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by tedthorn
I brought this topic up in this mornings shop meeting.

In the meeting of 4, I was the only person that has been on any guided hunts. So tipping a guide was news to the rest of the tool shop.

One guy snickers.....then asks

"Tomorrow is trash day. Should I tape a $5 to the can? My guy works hard and I am sure he doesn't make much money"

Then another toolmaker added several other services in our weekly life we are leaving out of the loop.



Seriously? You get your information from three guys who've never been on a guided hunt and think that's somehow relevant, and worth repeating on a forum with a bunch of guys who are either guides or have done multiple guided trips?

What's next, asking them how to treat a medical condition?

And here's a news flash for you--your trash men do work hard, they do appreciate tips, and a tip now and then (besides being a decent thing to do) pays back in spades. My wife always gives our trash men a card and a small tip at Christmas and they love her for it. A few times a year we will be out of town, or forget to roll the big trash can out to the curb. They will go into our back yard, find it, empty it, and return it to the back yard. And when I have a bunch of extra stuff to get rid of like dozens of leaf bags in the fall, they're not supposed to take it without charging me extra.

But guess what, they do. We're not asking for special treatment when we give them a tip, just being decent human beings. And they return the favor.

I wouldn't go into a restaurant and order a meal if I didn't intend on tipping the wait staff, because that's how they make their living and it's just a $hitty thing to do to a person.

I don't see why the same thing is so hard to understand when it comes to guides.


Our shop guys routinely talk about forum topics.....they all hunt and we all view this forum.

As far as understanding tipping a guide?

I believe that I stated in all of my guided hunts (just 4) I tipped

I am glad to see the passion though


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So, if none of the shop guys backpack hunt, would you ask them questions about backpack hunting and think their input is worth repeating to guys who backpack hunt all the time?



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Originally Posted by SKane
Originally Posted by Fireball2
Haven't read most of this thread.


And it was so wonderfully reflected in your response. smile


It's not complicated. You price your service to stay in business, seasonal or not. If tips are the difference, you need to raise your price. Figure it out.


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smokepole,

It was a story that I shared.....you are extra passionate this evening

Now.......about our work chatter

We talk about just about anything....but back pack hunting has yet to be a topic

I don't recall anyone giving tipping advice on guided hunts during the morning chat....but they all know that 10% is the benchmark as of now....

So they have that going for them


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You have your head up your ass. But you're right about one thing, it's not hard to figure out.

Some jobs are traditionally compensated at least partially by tips. Everyone knows which jobs these are. If you want to avail yourself of these services, you should expect to pay a tip, and figure the cost of the tip into your total cost.

If you're such a cheap SOB that you're unwilling to pay a tip, don't try to rationalize it by saying the rest of the world should change.

Look in the mirror instead. That's where the problem is.



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Originally Posted by tedthorn
smokepole, It was a story that I shared.....you are extra passionate about our work chatter


No Ted, you have that wrong.

I think your work chatter is irrelevant, and the question I asked is, why did you bring it up?



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Hmmmmm


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Originally Posted by smokepole
You have your head up your ass. But you're right about one thing, it's not hard to figure out.

Some jobs are traditionally compensated at least partially by tips. Everyone knows which jobs these are. If you want to avail yourself of these services, you should expect to pay a tip, and figure the cost of the tip into your total cost.

If you're such a cheap SOB that you're unwilling to pay a tip, don't try to rationalize it by saying the rest of the world should change.

Look in the mirror instead. That's where the problem is.


Those who work jobs that are "traditionally compensated" by tips..... used to understand that those tips were directly related to the service being provided. Now, it seems those who work for tips..... feel they're obligated to receive those tips.... regardless of the quality of the service or experience.

I don't tip schitty waitresses......

I don't tip the cab driver who makes me put my own bags in the trunk....

To Insure Promptness...... that's what TIP means.....

It was..... is..... and always should be.... directly related to the level of service you received.

If you want to work in an industry that is "partially supported" by an unagreed upon arbitrary amount of "additional" dough..... then you better provide exemplary service.

To expect to get paid the "industry standard"..... without providing an experience that's ABOVE that standard.... is pretty Bernie....


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Originally Posted by tedthorn
I brought this topic up in this mornings shop meeting.

In the meeting of 4, I was the only person that has been on any guided hunts. So tipping a guide was news to the rest of the tool shop.

One guy snickers.....then asks

"Tomorrow is trash day. Should I tape a $5 to the can? My guy works hard and I am sure he doesn't make much money"

Then another toolmaker added several other services in our weekly life we are leaving out of the loop.



I think it's funny you tell this story which has nothing to do with anything and then go on guided hunts after proclaiming you make less than the guides but then arguing you shouldn't tip?

Something doesn't make sense in your thought process.


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Dogshooter, no one said any different, you're way off base. No one has argued that guides or wait staff should be tipped the industry standard for schitty service.

Go back and read fireball's post, which is what I responded to.

He's trying to make the case that tipping should not exist, and should be rolled into the cost of the service.

I said right up front that a guided hunter should set aside the 10%, but the guide still has to earn it.




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Originally Posted by GregW
Originally Posted by tedthorn
I brought this topic up in this mornings shop meeting.

In the meeting of 4, I was the only person that has been on any guided hunts. So tipping a guide was news to the rest of the tool shop.

One guy snickers.....then asks

"Tomorrow is trash day. Should I tape a $5 to the can? My guy works hard and I am sure he doesn't make much money"

Then another toolmaker added several other services in our weekly life we are leaving out of the loop.



I think it's funny you tell this story which has nothing to fo with anything and then go on guided hunts after proclaiming you make less than the guides but then arguing you shouldn't tip?

Something doesn't make sense in your thought process.


I was thinking the same.

But I do have a funny story. I was at work the other day, talking with the guys about tipping on guided hunts. And then one of them said, "wait a minute, why are we talking about this, none of us have ever been on a guided hunt?" So I said "good point, but bear with me, I need an anecdote to tell the guys on the 24-hour campfire."

So he said, "OK, tell us about guided hunts" and I told him what I knew. Halfway through, he stopped me and said "let me see if I've got this straight--the guides are responsible for making sure nothing bad happens to you, they take care of your basic needs like food and shelter, they are responsible for the success of your hunt, which depends on their skill and how hard they work, and they work for tips?" "Yep." "And you're asking if you should tip them?"

"That's right."

They just shook their heads, turned around, and walked off. I heard one guy say "well, that explains why he never picks up the check at lunch....."



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Originally Posted by GregW
Originally Posted by tedthorn
I brought this topic up in this mornings shop meeting.

In the meeting of 4, I was the only person that has been on any guided hunts. So tipping a guide was news to the rest of the tool shop.

One guy snickers.....then asks

"Tomorrow is trash day. Should I tape a $5 to the can? My guy works hard and I am sure he doesn't make much money"

Then another toolmaker added several other services in our weekly life we are leaving out of the loop.



I think it's funny you tell this story which has nothing to do with anything and then go on guided hunts after proclaiming you make less than the guides but then arguing you shouldn't tip?

Something doesn't make sense in your thought process.


Borrow the money and go. Seems like a great idea except that tips get to be a lot more than 10% when you're paying interest on them grin

Originally Posted by tedthorn


Sorry but the old "if you can't afford the extra 10% don't go" is phugging bull chit..

Some.....most people have to save for years or even pull bank loans to hunt far off places

The 10% mark is become the standard?

Nuts IMO when factoring in all aspects

By all accounts there are many people in your everyday life that "we" need to be giving the 10% gratuity too....

Lots of low wage people in our lives that work hard for us....think?

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Yep, the 10% "standard" is "phugging bullchit" and nuts in his opinion, but he always tips that amount.

Makes perfect sense to me.



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Originally Posted by huntsonora
Originally Posted by GregW
Originally Posted by tedthorn
I brought this topic up in this mornings shop meeting.

In the meeting of 4, I was the only person that has been on any guided hunts. So tipping a guide was news to the rest of the tool shop.

One guy snickers.....then asks

"Tomorrow is trash day. Should I tape a $5 to the can? My guy works hard and I am sure he doesn't make much money"

Then another toolmaker added several other services in our weekly life we are leaving out of the loop.



I think it's funny you tell this story which has nothing to do with anything and then go on guided hunts after proclaiming you make less than the guides but then arguing you shouldn't tip?

Something doesn't make sense in your thought process.


Borrow the money and go. Seems like a great idea except that tips get to be a lot more than 10% when you're paying interest on them grin

Originally Posted by tedthorn


Sorry but the old "if you can't afford the extra 10% don't go" is phugging bull chit..

Some.....most people have to save for years or even pull bank loans to hunt far off places

The 10% mark is become the standard?

Nuts IMO when factoring in all aspects

By all accounts there are many people in your everyday life that "we" need to be giving the 10% gratuity too....

Lots of low wage people in our lives that work hard for us....think?


Drum.....text Chad (our mutual friend)

He will confirm that I have indeed pulled a 60 month loan to hunt Africa

I had an opportunity to go and not enough money

And as stated....I have always tipped my guide


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Originally Posted by smokepole
Yep, the 10% "standard" is "phugging bullchit" and nuts in his opinion, but he always tips that amount.

Makes perfect sense to me.


You sure are disgruntled over this


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This thread is getting crazy. If you have to take out a loan to go on a guided hunting trip, you have no business going on that trip! I hope you don't have a family you are supporting!

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You seriously took out a loan to hunt Africa? Seriously?

At least it makes sense now. I wouldn't want to keep paying interest on guide tips either.

After all, they're just hunting guides.


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Originally Posted by tedthorn
Originally Posted by smokepole
Yep, the 10% "standard" is "phugging bullchit" and nuts in his opinion, but he always tips that amount.

Makes perfect sense to me.


You sure are disgruntled over this


LMAO, not at all Ted. I just know that most guides work hard, and don't make much money. And that people who may go on a guided trip one day are reading this.



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How can you tell if a guide is alive? You can hear them bitching about money.

This applies to both fishing and hunting guides, as I know a few.

I recommend tipping heavily, and not paying attention to the whining.

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LMAO, not at all Ted. I just know that most guides work hard, and don't make much money. And that people who may go on a guided trip one day are reading this.


So, then, you're an evangelist for guides. Who would have thought it?


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Smokepole is just a cover. His real name is Guido Evangeline.......

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You guys are pretty good entertainment

I come here for two things

Gain knowledge from members in the know and entertaining stuff like this



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Originally Posted by Backroads
How can you tell if a guide is alive? You can hear them bitching about money.

This applies to both fishing and hunting guides, as I know a few.

I recommend tipping heavily, and not paying attention to the whining.


What a dumbass blanket statement. I guarantee if you came and hunted with me, I would not be the one whining.

Tanner

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Originally Posted by Tanner
Originally Posted by Backroads
How can you tell if a guide is alive? You can hear them bitching about money.

This applies to both fishing and hunting guides, as I know a few.

I recommend tipping heavily, and not paying attention to the whining.


What a dumbass blanket statement. I guarantee if you came and hunted with me, I would not be the one whining.

Tanner


You would after you saw the tip!

Some of the thinnest skin is apparently also found on guides.


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How do you all feel about tipping owner-operator type outfits.

I have hunted with a few solo outfitter/guides types in the past few years.

Do you feel as obligated to give a 10%+ tip when you know all the money you plunked down for the hunt and/or trophy fees is going into his pocket minus expenses?

I tipped them all well but did not feel as obligated to give 10%.



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Originally Posted by Backroads
Originally Posted by Tanner
Originally Posted by Backroads
How can you tell if a guide is alive? You can hear them bitching about money.

This applies to both fishing and hunting guides, as I know a few.

I recommend tipping heavily, and not paying attention to the whining.


What a dumbass blanket statement. I guarantee if you came and hunted with me, I would not be the one whining.

Tanner


You would after you saw the tip!

Some of the thinnest skin is apparently also found on guides.



I really can't give a schit, but it appears you associate with the wrong guides. Not really surprising, though.

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Originally Posted by Backroads
Originally Posted by Tanner
Originally Posted by Backroads
How can you tell if a guide is alive? You can hear them bitching about money.

This applies to both fishing and hunting guides, as I know a few.

I recommend tipping heavily, and not paying attention to the whining.


What a dumbass blanket statement. I guarantee if you came and hunted with me, I would not be the one whining.

Tanner


You would after you saw the tip!

Some of the thinnest skin is apparently also found on guides.



I don't bitch about money because I don't need the money which is how I can afford to guide hunts for a living. I know Tanner and I know he wouldn't bitch about anything either. If you were an a$$hole, he would just literally walk the desire to hunt right out of you. You would literally have to tip him to stop...

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Originally Posted by huntsonora
Originally Posted by Backroads
Originally Posted by Tanner
Originally Posted by Backroads
How can you tell if a guide is alive? You can hear them bitching about money.

This applies to both fishing and hunting guides, as I know a few.

I recommend tipping heavily, and not paying attention to the whining.


What a dumbass blanket statement. I guarantee if you came and hunted with me, I would not be the one whining.

Tanner


You would after you saw the tip!

Some of the thinnest skin is apparently also found on guides.



I don't bitch about money because I don't need the money which is how I can afford to guide hunts for a living. I know Tanner and I know he wouldn't bitch about anything either. If you were an a$$hole, he would just literally walk the desire to hunt right out of you. You would literally have to tip him to stop...


I've witnessed that from a client first hand.....

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Originally Posted by Tanner
Originally Posted by Backroads
Originally Posted by Tanner
Originally Posted by Backroads
How can you tell if a guide is alive? You can hear them bitching about money.

This applies to both fishing and hunting guides, as I know a few.

I recommend tipping heavily, and not paying attention to the whining.


What a dumbass blanket statement. I guarantee if you came and hunted with me, I would not be the one whining.

Tanner


You would after you saw the tip!

Some of the thinnest skin is apparently also found on guides.



I really can't give a schit, but it appears you associate with the wrong guides. Not really surprising, though.

Tanner

I talked to my old lady, she said massingil or summers eve would get that sand out
Of course I am hanging out with the wrong guides, they don't even charge me to joke around with them

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Originally Posted by huntsonora
Originally Posted by Backroads
Originally Posted by Tanner
Originally Posted by Backroads
How can you tell if a guide is alive? You can hear them bitching about money.

This applies to both fishing and hunting guides, as I know a few.

I recommend tipping heavily, and not paying attention to the whining.


What a dumbass blanket statement. I guarantee if you came and hunted with me, I would not be the one whining.

Tanner


You would after you saw the tip!

Some of the thinnest skin is apparently also found on guides.



I know Tanner and I know he wouldn't bitch about anything either. If you were an a$$hole, he would just literally walk the desire to hunt right out of you. You would literally have to tip him to stop...


Couldn't agree more....

I'm pretty sure there's more than a couple folks here that've hunted with Tanner..... hell, been guided by Tanner..... absolutely free, through the kindness of a damn good kid.... who also happens to be a very talented hunter. He ain't in it for the money..... or the Instagram Fame.... he's in it cause he like to help folks shoot cool schitt.

Maybe..... instead of a tip..... you could show up for the hunt in shape.... with quality field proven gear.... a rifle you can shoot.... a willingness to put in some work.... and some reasonable expectations. I'm sure 90% of "guides" would far prefer that to the "10% industry standard".



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You can't put a value on that Instagram Fame, though. laugh

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Originally Posted by starsky
You can't put a value on that Instagram Fame, though. laugh


Is Tanner COhighcountry on Instagram?

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Originally Posted by Ringman
Quote
LMAO, not at all Ted. I just know that most guides work hard, and don't make much money. And that people who may go on a guided trip one day are reading this.


So, then, you're an evangelist for guides. Who would have thought it?


Yes, you could say that. If you add in fishing trips I've been guided 6-8 times and they've run the gamut from a crabby old SOB who complained about everything and couldn't find fish, to a young guy who was pleasant and helpful but couldn't find fish, to a young guy who's an exceptional hunter, always positive and a pleasure to hunt with, busted his ass for 12 days and never mentioned a tip. When I brought it up he said "it's 100% optional and I'd be thrilled with anything you want to give."

Yes tipping is optional, and should be based on the effort and quality of service.

But I can't understand people who pay the $$ for a guided hunt and then quibble about compensating the one person responsible for their success.

If that makes me an evangelist, pass the hat, and give me an Amen, brother!



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Guiding is really a young man's game. I have done both hunting and fishing and for the most part, it is like babysitting. If a babysitter needs a tip, then maybe it is appropriate for guides as well.

Whenever I guided anybody, I never counted on a tip. I guided for the wages and was always pleased with a tip, but never considered it part of the pay. I don't know where the standard of tipping started in relation to the job description, but on either side of the equation, I believe the tip has to be earned.

There is a lot of celebrity attached to guiding, and I did appreciate the client that showed reverence, but not all of the clients are that way. Some can't be told anything, others, are easily pleased and compensate generously.

I don't want to guide hunting anymore, it is just too much work. Anyone who has done it, knows how much work it is and makes the choice to guide or not. Compensation for the work is up front and if it doesn't suit you, you do need to look for some other occupation.

When I retire, I could see guiding fishing trips again, mainly because I enjoy it, not because of the money...


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I once used a guide in Wyoming for several repeat hunts. We became good friends in the process and on one of the occasions we spent a couple days hunting coyotes after my mule deer and antelope tags were filled. He admired the half-finished Martini Cadet .22 Hornet I had brought along for that purpose. When I got home, I finished the rifle and then sent it to him as a token for his professionalism during the hunts and as a token of friendship. I figured it was the least I could do after all the effort he put into making my experiences pleasurable.


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I travel a fair amount on business, and when I was fairy young was told by a sales manager, "don't skimp on tipping, if they deserve it".

Last hunt I was on, I tipped a little over 20%, but that included housekeeping, cooks, and the guide, with the guide getting the lion's share.

I do a little better with the lady who cuts my hair, but she is fast, and good looking, so... smile


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I learned early on that I was not cut out to be a hunting guide. I have to really like the folks I'm with that time of year.

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Originally Posted by tex_n_cal
I travel a fair amount on business, and when I was fairy young was told by a sales manager, "don't skimp on tipping, if they deserve it".

Last hunt I was on, I tipped a little over 20%, but that included housekeeping, cooks, and the guide, with the guide getting the lion's share.

I do a little better with the lady who cuts my hair, but she is fast, and good looking, so... smile
And I tipped over 35% including guide,housekeeping and cooks...they were worth every penny


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Originally Posted by Calvin
This thread is getting crazy. If you have to take out a loan to go on a guided hunting trip, you have no business going on that trip! I hope you don't have a family you are supporting!


Family, like kids?

No

Wife? Yes.....she hunted with me

I can borrow money.....that I can pay back over time

I can't buy or borrow time


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Ohio7x57, I hope this thread answered all your questions grin

Seriously though, best of luck on your hunt

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Originally Posted by huntsonora
Originally Posted by starsky
You can't put a value on that Instagram Fame, though. laugh


Is Tanner COhighcountry on Instagram?


No, I found him and starskey today matter of fact. Classic!! Haha


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Originally Posted by huntsonora
Ohio7x57, I hope this thread answered all your questions grin

Seriously though, best of luck on your hunt


And if your happy with the services, tip well...


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Originally Posted by Judman
Originally Posted by huntsonora
Originally Posted by starsky
You can't put a value on that Instagram Fame, though. laugh


Is Tanner COhighcountry on Instagram?


No, I found him and starskey today matter of fact. Classic!! Haha


Did you find Team Sore Dick Jud?

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Originally Posted by Tanner
Originally Posted by Judman
Originally Posted by huntsonora
Originally Posted by starsky
You can't put a value on that Instagram Fame, though. laugh


Is Tanner COhighcountry on Instagram?


No, I found him and starskey today matter of fact. Classic!! Haha


Did you find Team Sore Dick Jud?

Tanner


They cannot be beat

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Yep, by shiithouse luck, scrolling through pics, saw old starskey, good stuff! Grin


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Originally Posted by dvdegeorge
Originally Posted by tex_n_cal
I travel a fair amount on business, and when I was fairy young was told by a sales manager, "don't skimp on tipping, if they deserve it".

Last hunt I was on, I tipped a little over 20%, but that included housekeeping, cooks, and the guide, with the guide getting the lion's share.

I do a little better with the lady who cuts my hair, but she is fast, and good looking, so... smile
And I tipped over 35% including guide,housekeeping and cooks...they were worth every penny


Same hunt I tipped a little over 20% like Pat. I tipped extra to the guide because he never got us stuck and he just flat caked his brand new truck in mud. I always felt bad climbing in it with boots all covered in mud. I figure he needed the extra to clean it up..


I've always been different with one foot over the line.....
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Originally Posted by Judman
Yep, by shiithouse luck, scrolling through pics, saw old starskey, good stuff! Grin


Does this mean I'm famous now?

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Must be , Po dunk lewis county boy recognized ya.


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An interesting thread. I've been on three guided hunts, mule deer in CO, S Africa, and NV antelope. All were a bit different. On the CO hunt, it was the owner with his mom doing the cooking, Africa of course was what you would expect, guide was co-owner and there was a cook, trackers, skinners, housekeepers, etc. NV was owner/guide but I provided my own camper and food.

By and large I don't need anybody to babysit me or hold my hand. Most of what I need is someone's knowledge of the game and area and perhaps some logistical help.

My first comment would be that folks with my level of inexperience with guided hunts are hungry for good information regarding how to approach tipping. I knew and agree with/accepted tipping as an industry standard so that wasn't a big deal and I figured it into my budget. The "fuzzy part" is when there are multiple staff with multiple roles. As Travis mentioned with his "total package" comment to Calvin, I'm all about making it simple, 'cause that's me, simple.

My second comment would be to thank those that have shared their thoughts and experiences, both those in the industry and those with a goodly amount of guided hunt experience. I greatly appreciate having folks like Phil, Drummond, Greg W, and Tanner here; all I considering first-class people. It's obvious conversations can get contentious at times, but like the truth, the best information rises to the top and is pretty easy to pick out.

I will offer up that on two of the three hunts the owner/guide shared anecdotal stories about tipping the cook or help.....my thought, please don't insult my intelligence with this nonsense. I like both guys a lot and got along very well with them, but was somewhat offended with this type of behavior. But I'll also say it's water under the bridge and would hunt with either again.

My NV antelope hunt was last minute and a rushed deal because of me starting a new job. Several of the outfitters I spoke with said I needed a good 5 days to cover the unit and look over antelope; I booked for a 3-day hunt which I knew was a gamble with a top notch tag. I probably could have waited a bit longer, but shot an 80 incher on the second day and was very happy. AFTER I shot my antelope and decided to head out the 3rd day, my guide shared that he would be able to take his 4 year old daughter to the annual state fair. After tipping him, he let me know he saves all his tips for his daughters college fund. He's a fairly unique individual, but I'll hunt with him again in a heartbeat.

I've kind of rambled off topic just a bit, but my position is I will do my best to tip graciously (think more than 10%) as long as I feel the guide/outfit did everything they could to make the hunt fun, enjoyable, and successful. Regardless of whether I killed or not.

BTW, Starsky, you're worldwide famous....I'm sure!

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I've been on both sides. I've been given scraps by guys that could afford prime rib (went above and beyond with that guy, letting him use my personal gun when his got messed up, of which he scratched the living chit out of my gun and missed a very nice buck). And i have been very well taken care of by guys whom were not wealthy.

When I've tipped, I've always given the maximum amount that I could possibly do. For the life of me, I can't tell toy if that was 2%, 5%, 10, or 20%. It was what I could do at the time, and, to the best of my knowledge, everyones was happy, myself included.

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After having taken about a dozen hunters a year over the past 10-12 years, I'm through with that gig. We will only take a couple of mule deer hunters per year from here on out. We had some great people show up in camp for sure, as well as our share of idiots. Some tipped, some didn't. We generally gave all of the tips to the ranch foreman, who was our real ally in making sure the hunter/landowner relationship always worked out, and it did/has.

My favorite was the moron from Dallas, some lardasss attorney who eventually wound up burning Big Al's ATV to the ground because he like to ride the foot brake while mashing the gas. He was warned about it several times. After his hunt, he had the cahones' (stupidity) to ask for a partial refund since he didn't kill a buck, and bitch and moan because his shooting sticks burned up with Big Al's atv.......he never mentioned the atv BTW.



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Dang, you'd never expect that from a lard ass Dallas attorney grin .



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Originally Posted by tedthorn

I can borrow money.....that I can pay back over time

I can't buy or borrow time


Agree 100%. People borrow money for things a lot more frivolous than a guided hunt. Sometimes I wish I'd spent more on stuff like that when I was younger. Or better yet, done what Tanner's doing.



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Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by tedthorn

I can borrow money.....that I can pay back over time

I can't buy or borrow time


Agree 100%. People borrow money for things a lot more frivolous than a guided hunt. Sometimes I wish I'd spent more on stuff like that when I was younger. Or better yet, done what Tanner's doing.


Looking at what's going on with African hunting today I'm very happy my wife and I took our 25th wedding anniversary trip in 2014 to Africa to hunt for 2 weeks.

[Linked Image]

I have to go in dept each April as I apply for non resident pronghorn, deer and elk for my wife and myself.

Same thing......time vs money


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On one guided hunt I took my son-in-law also. I found both and showed them to the guide. We helped drag the pronghorns to the truck. We had to skin and quarter our animals.

After John killed his and it was in the truck I told the guide I glassed up a good one about 1/2 mile on the other side of the hill. The guides wanted to go get some lunch so they didn't even take a look at it.

Needless to say I didn't offer a tip.


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Sounds like you should've offered a tip:

"You may want to check into another line of work."



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The handful of guided hunts I've been on, I've spotted my game, caped, boned, packed saddled my horse, cut wood split wood, cooked etc. I don't purchase guided hunts to be treated like a princess and be pampered and have my hand held. The hunts I've purchased are to collect animals I wouldn't normally have the chance to kill, i.e. Mtn caribou and oryx. Every guide made the comment they were surprised, as most clients they've had were lazy, and wanted everything done for them. I've made some great friends and tipped everyone of them, also giving them a gift, which in both cases were knives. If I wanna relax I'll simply roll to Hawaii with the commander and exercise my liver...


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I don't do it to be treated like a princess either, but if a guide is content to let me spot the game, skin it, and haul it out he won't be maximizing his earning potential. So he might want to consider that in his long-term financial planning.



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Originally Posted by Judman
The handful of guided hunts I've been on, I've spotted my game, caped, boned, packed saddled my horse, cut wood split wood, cooked etc. I don't purchase guided hunts to be treated like a princess and be pampered and have my hand held. The hunts I've purchased are to collect animals I wouldn't normally have the chance to kill, i.e. Mtn caribou and oryx. Every guide made the comment they were surprised, as most clients they've had were lazy, and wanted everything done for them. I've made some great friends and tipped everyone of them, also giving them a gift, which in both cases were knives. If I wanna relax I'll simply roll to Hawaii with the commander and exercise my liver...


Pretty much an ideal client, it's always a nice reprieve to "guide" a guy like that, in my limited experience. Hard to believe you actually get paid, at the end of a trip like that. While I would be very surprised if a hunter was outspotting or out-hiking me, or wanting to cape out his own critter, it really is nice when a guy can hunt hard and well.

As to Greenhorn's comment about "having to really like the people I'm with during that time of the year", that certainly weighed on my mind when I began guiding, but I've been pleasantly surprised and have thoroughly enjoyed my time with just about every single hunter I've guided thus far. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I hope that continues...

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Ya caping is just something I do, not that I'm any better, just wanna do it. My mtn caribou had a hole chewed through a ear by a marten, hung the cape in a tree and the bastard got ahold of it. Taxi fixed it pretty good. I don't base my tip on caping, etc, I base it on if he's a good sumbitch or not, which is why I booked in the first place after numerous phone calls and if I'm sucking down ibuprofen nightly. I'm betting a guy would get his $$$ worth outta tanner or Drummond ....

Last edited by Judman; 04/14/16.

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PS, on my AK trip last year, I split all the firewood and wrangled all the pack animals. I know Tanner can appreciate that. I also carried as much weight as I could on the trip out, but that still left the guide with a monster load.



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With the amount of firewood in that country, I can't imagine having any energy left after splitting wood, much less enough to wrangle all the ponies!

Downright woodsy up there!

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Originally Posted by smokepole
PS, on my AK trip last year, I split all the firewood and wrangled all the pack animals. I know Tanner can appreciate that. I also carried as much weight as I could on the trip out, but that still left the guide with a monster load.


That's the way it should be, I bet your guide liked you a hellava lot better than a do nothing city slick puzzy! I'd love to do a dall sheep hunt someday....


Ping pong balls for the win.
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You'd get a heck of a tip, if you were my guide, and also carried some good beer to that campsite.

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Those rocks were a lot softer than they look laugh

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Originally Posted by Greenhorn
You'd get a heck of a tip, if you were my guide, and also carried some good beer to that campsite.


I normally opt for whiskey or 'shine on those hunts, they seem to pack a little better punch for the weight... grin

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Dang, we had a case of Colt 45 Malt Liquor over on our side of the ridge.



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Lot of good thoughts posted on this.
I think most guys want to be a good client, hunt well, and pitch in, and tip appropriately.
My though was that the nature of guided hunting is such that there often might not be much middle ground.

Most, or perhaps many, hunts probably allow a guy to cross one item off his lifetime bucket list. In the process probably share a very cool experience with the guide and would want to show gratitude for that.

On those unfortunate occasions where it goes the other way - leaky tent, lame horse, outfitters freeloading buddies along, confronting other outfitters or DIYers for an area, etc. then a customer may have strong feelings the opposite way.

Bagging an animal or not may very well be incidental to the service provided.

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Alamosa,

I guess I'm not sophisticated enough for bagging the animal to "be incidental to the service provided." If I wanted to socialize I could go to a club or church.


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Originally Posted by Ringman
Alamosa,

I guess I'm not sophisticated enough for bagging the animal to "be incidental to the service provided." If I wanted to socialize I could go to a club or church.


You are going too far with it.
I cut 'em some slack but I'm not completely ambivalent.
Anybody, well almost anybody, is going to check into their success chances with a service before they sign on.
There is only one place I've ever heard of that is not high fence that guarantees success and it was some sort of guided Indian reservation deal. I'll bet they don't do it any longer.
Suppose I was to take it to the extreme the way you did?
Would you tip them nothing if you didn't punch your tag?

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Alamosa,

Quote
You are going too far with it.


Okay. That's just me. When I made a .224 wildcat a friend told me, "You should call it .220 Extremist because you're an extremist."


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Which one of you guys wants to open a hamburger joint and charge $1.00 a burger, hoping the tips cover the rest your needs? Ridiculous approach.

If tips are mandatory for your guides success they're not tips.


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Fireball,

Try to keep up with us. The owner/proprietor of the business rarely will get tipped. But, his employees will. As the owner of a guide business, I would expect no tip. As an employee of a guide business, tips would be a big factor for me in deciding whether or not I was going to guide or not.


So, it'd be like opening a hamburger joint, paying your waitresses a low wage, and the tips making it worthwhile for the waitress to keep working there. So yeah, it's exactly like a hamburger joint that has waitresses. BTW, the federal minimum wage for servers is $2.13 an hour.

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Originally Posted by Calvin
BTW, the federal minimum wage for servers is $2.13 an hour.


Hamburger joints should not have waitresses. 'Cause fireball doesn't want to tip.



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I knew Oregon was different, but I didn't know it was THAT different... Jiminy Christmas....

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BTW, the federal minimum wage for servers is $2.13 an hour. [/quote]


You do understand that 2.13 is the minimum amount that they can pay but if the waiter/ waitress wage plus tips does not equal the $7.65 minimum the owner must make up the difference.

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I generally tip 30%. I hope they're not relying on it.


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No they rely on the $2.13/hour. It really adds up.



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Originally Posted by bangeye
BTW, the federal minimum wage for servers is $2.13 an hour.



You do understand that 2.13 is the minimum amount that they can pay but if the waiter/ waitress wage plus tips does not equal the $7.65 minimum the owner must make up the difference.[/quote]

Thanks for making my point. The owner of the business and the waitress relies on the tips for a good portion of the servers salary. Just like the owner of the guide business relies on tips to make a good portion of the hired guides salary.

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