Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Alaska Is this the present law?

Without the guide requirement far more NR would hunt the indicated species.. The NR success rate would take a nose dive, but I think the illegal animal kill would increase, which would also increase the overall take rate, which would force reductions in allowable harvest rates in GMUs. More areas would go to permit only status, and it would be harder to get those permits from the sheer competition numbers.

It's true the guides benefit.

As far as BOG not being influenced by special interests, that is not always true. One just needs to see the way they rubber stamped the Natives "management" plan for caribou in GMU 23 last year. It won't make a damned bit of difference in the caribou population. It just wasn't worth fighting, politically.

The Feds manage almost exclusivly by politics - i.e. Feds restricting the NR harvest in GMU 23. 600- 800 nearly all bulls out of a population of over 100,000 animals is insignificant. Where that came from is the Natives absolutely hate NR hunters and guides/outfitters. They claim such activity "turns the herd from traditional migration routes (read near the villages)" . There is absolutely no empirical evidence of that. I personally doubt 500 hunters scattered across thousands of square miles over the course of NR season, doing stalk and kill. is significant. I am less sure of the air activity involved, however. I'm pretty sure of more importance is the fact that any caribou swimming a river may experience the phenom of being descended upon by a flotilla of high speed boats with semi-auto firearms... Not to mention being chased winter long by high speed snow machines. Caribou are dumb, but even so, eventually it will sink in that "if we go that way, I get stressed!"

I was inconvenienced for no good reason by the rule change last year , and that pisses me off! I'm probably gonna get into a whole lot of trouble at the WACH "management group" meeting here on May 4/5. Depending...

I can't buy the argument that it's for the safety of the nonresident in remote and difficult terrain. If that were the case then they would prohibit mountain climbers from venturing into even more difficult and more remote terrain without a guide.

I climbed Mount Blackburn when I was younger. That's a lot more dangerous than most any hunt for goats or sheep. All we needed was the skill, gear, stamina, gumption and a good bush pilot to drop us on a lake at the base of the mountain. No guide "for nonresident safety" required.

They have the same guide requirement for nonresidents hunting in wilderness areas for Wyoming. I climbed Gannet Peak, the highest mountain in Wyoming and in the Wind River Wilderness Area. No guide "for nonresident safety" required. But I can't hunt in a wilderness area in Wyoming unless I hire a guide.

Those laws are strictly to put money in the pockets of the guides.

KC

No, no. Natives couldn't survive without shooting caribou from their boats.

I'm good with it, but it should require a guide. I'm sure Phil would agree.

Good post las. As far as dropping the NR guide requirement, there are plenty of ways to limit participation and increase compliance. Like all NR's are issued the tag after completing the course in lieu of guide and no draw but permits issued first come to qualified applicants. The state could make a lot more than they do now and take exponentially bigger steps in real education. It doesn't have to be easy for a NR to hunt but there should be a way to qualify without being a doctor, tribal chief or NFL star.

That's silly, you should have to be rich to hunt on FEDERAL lands. You know, your lands.

Talus:

I can't speak for all nonresidents. But I guarantee that I could kill mountain goats, sheep, and grizzlies without a guide. I know exactly where I would go and how I would do it.

I suppose that there are some nonresidents and residents for that matter, that are a danger to themselves any time that they venture into the wilderness and they probably need a guide. I run into people like that occasionally. But there's no reason to penalize all nonresidents because of a few weaklings.

Like I've stated before, those laws are just there to put money into the pockets of the guides.

KC

It seems myopic to think that AK's game laws with regards to guide requirements are solely intended to put money in the pockets of guides. I'm not arguing that guides do not profit from the regulations, only that they serve other useful intended purposes as well. It's not a perfect system, what is? It is a useful management tool and I'm in support of the industry (though I receive zero remuneration from it), with a few notable exceptions.

I do not doubt you, KC. But NR success over time is much greater with a guide.

As for why AK requires a guide for some species, the factors more important than hunter success, and this is opinion, are:

Hunting sheep, goats and brown bears is more dangerous than hunting deer, 'bou, and moose in AK;

Requiring a guide, with the attendant certifications and insurance, assures a degree of accountability and professional standard, like a PE stamp does;

Guides have some political power in AK;

Guide fees are important economically in AK (somewhat);

It is easier for enforcement to manage a handfull of registered guides than hordes of free range hunters;

Pro guides doubtless save the state lots of SAR money.

To see the magazine half full, the caliber of that quarry warrants some guarantee of best management. Which brings the attendant bullshite. And yeah, I would like to hunt there too ...

I'd have to agree with that.

I've never wanted hunting to be only for the rich.


But lordy I'd hate to see the "test" folks would have to take to qualify.

imo the assistant guide license exam that used to be in place wasn't really sufficient, but at least there was exam, I hear that's not even necessary any longer. Just hunt 2 seasons and be reco'ed by a guide. That may be inaccurate, I've been outa the game awhile, perhaps Phil could let us know. Or I could look it up if I wasn't so lazy or cared more about it.


our Constitution does say that our game should be managed for the residents of the state IIRC.

I'm not sure that's always a priority in the rules that get passed.


I do believe guides perform a valuable service to many clients and often the health of our game. Not always though.


it's a complex problem with no easy answers from my viewpoint.

So are you buying a resident license in the state you now live in ? And think it is fair that you should pay less to hunt federal land in that state than non-residents do ?

I am also sure you knew the rules on non-residents hunting in Alaska when you moved out of the state and now you think they are unfair ? You can always move back.

I am sure you and most of the folks who have posted here are fully capable of safely hunting all Alaskan big game, you could probably hunt the big five in Africa on your own too, but there are one heck of a lot who can not and, litigation being what it is, the state has to take that into consideration as well as the legal enforcement issues involved. You think all guides are rolling in money and the living is easy ? Any hunting or fishing violation in any state will have a guide sitting on the bench and the state would much rather hold a guide accountable for a sub legal sheep or bear as they might get a $500 fine for a non-resident where a guide is likely to face a $5000 fine and a felony charge.
Read the guide statutes and talk with a few AK F&G biologists and you might see things a little different..
And for all you conspiracy theorists about how the F&G is in the pocket of guides, it would be nice if you could give us some real and verrfiable facts ! I am good friends with a number of game wardens, biologists and and upper level management in F&G, as well as a few politicians and I am sure they would be interested as well.

I managed to survive 5 seasons of resident hunting up there despite my status as a displaced dsmfer. Miraculous, that.

I think your reading comprehension SUCKS.

You can charge me $5000 for the NR tag, limit tags, draw, whatever the [bleep], but don't tell me I need a GUIDE to hunt goat in a mountain I've hunted 20 times in the past. Suddenly I need a guide because I left the state for 2 years, because obviously it's not SAFE.


The above and a few other posters read just like democrats. Legislate to the lowest common denominator. It's a bad way to role.


I recall the days and hunted goats in the days when a guide WASN'T required for hunting goats.

Again, the 'it's dangerous' without a guide is funny sheit. As I've said, myself and pards of killed deer atop the same mountain that we've killed goats.

Also, if it is so dangerous, as someone pointed out, why aren't guides required for hikers? How about folks with butterfly nets.

I also add that the waters in SE Alaska are far more treacherous than the mountains.

Why are boating guides NOT required? Fishing guides NOT required? Since obviously not all people can handle the seas and after all as Phil and a few others have stated, it's about safety.


I hope you guys push your officials to require a guide for anyone that fishes or goes out on the water. No more boat rentals, no more fly out fishing without a guide.


After all, if it saves one life.


What a bunch of liberal, democrats.

I have no problem with ANY state focusing their efforts towards non resident hunters being regulated . We have tourists here that require rescue every year because they hiked their way into a no way out situation.And some of those have been taken off the mountain in a black bag. I have hunted most of the western states and seen the cabelas army invade them all. Its America and we do have the freedom to hunt in any state as long as we meet the requirements of said state. I have no doubt many here could DIY anywhere , however unfortunate there are also many who think they can but could not. Funny to me that some folks refuse to ship a rifle up here (CONUS ONLY) but think they should be turned loose to do and take whatever they want once they get here (or any anywhere). I guess you cant make everyone happy. And as long as Govt" is involved someone is getting screwed.

My comparehension sucks ? You like to sling accusations but havn't answered any of my questions so I'll ask another --- where in the game regulations does it say a guide is required for safety?

Face it Scott, whatever you knew is gone.


Your mind is a blank.


you're a dsmf now and I'm afraid there's no cure. (grin)

You're correct in that the provision is not rooted in safety or a magnanimous concern for ones health. It's based upon money and illegally propping up a single industry, GUIDES. The provision is solely in place so that guides have government mandating the unnecessary use of an industry that without government intervention, would shrink substantially and the money they extort from hunters to line the pockets of state politicians would decrease substantially.

It was never about safety and strictly about money and power.

And I quote






You brought up the SAFETY issue in the above quote, mine was a retort to said quote. Did you see me mention SAFETY in my first post in this thread?

Again, reading comprehension is apparently a lost art.

I will also add that if you read my first post, there was no 'slinging', all I said is it didn't make sense.

You started with the NPR, smart ass comment. I appreciate they you make a living guiding and apparently so does your family, so you are obviously biased, just like a union worker.

I find when biased people get in a corner they are forced to sling comments around like NPR and throw around random statistics. Betcha got a Feel the Bern sticker on your outhouse.

Funny, yes!

Compelling, no!

You are right I am biased, just like everyone else. Before working as a guide I worked as a biologist and also did a stint in law enforcement and my bias is slated toward the long term viability of the game population. And since YOU decided to bring my family into it, ( nice classy touch!) they too are dedicated to both education and the long term sustainability of Alaskan game. My son currently flys polar bear, brown bear, and other wildlife surveys and my daughter ( besides being one of the few Alaskan registered guides) teachs youth ourdoor education courses, and womens shooting.
What are your biases? You seem to prefer attacking and slinging insults rather than answering questions and discussing issues. If hunting in Alaska was so improtant to you why did you move as you had to be aware of the guide requirements ? And you still haven't answered whenther you have claimed residency in the other state?