24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 130
C
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
C
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 130
Originally Posted by jimmyp
Constructor when do you think you will have your super-bolts back in stock? I would like to try one in my 6.8.
Keeping extractors in stock is the problem. Doug can machine around 350 bolts a week so we have a few thousand bolts ea parkerized and NiB but only 250 extractors as of Thurs. I doubt they will last through this week but there should be another 800 coming in the next 2-3 weeks. Check the store, should be there now.


"I threw a touchdown pass in the last minute to win the state championship game. I know it was 30 years ago and not relevant to this discussion but it makes me important and believable, it's the only great thing I even accomplished"
ARIC

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,806
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,806
Originally Posted by constructor
Originally Posted by BarryC
Constructor, how do you chamber your barrels?
What do you mean?

Do you chamber it to min specs?

Those numbers you gave as "typical" of other manufacturers seem pretty sloppy. Do you go any tighter than .422" at the base?


Islam is a terrorist organization.

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,367
R
Campfire Kahuna
Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
R
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,367
I don't know a top line smith that doesn't chamber to minimum spec period.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 130
C
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
C
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 130
Originally Posted by BarryC
Originally Posted by constructor
Originally Posted by BarryC
Constructor, how do you chamber your barrels?
What do you mean?

Do you chamber it to min specs?

Those numbers you gave as "typical" of other manufacturers seem pretty sloppy. Do you go any tighter than .422" at the base?

We must chamber the diameters to spec because most reloading dies only size .002" under or .420" The chamber needs to be .422 to keep the cases from sticking.
When the SSA cases expand from .415 to .422 that first time it has a bulge. Not much we can do at this point. I tried in 07 to use a smaller chamber to keep the bulge to a minimum but it required the use of small base dies. The SSA brass swelled from .415 to .420 then were resized to .418. The problem was getting everyone to use the correct dies to keep the case stretch down. After a while I gave up and used the same diameters as everyone else.
When matching bolts to barrels I have a gauge (GO +.003)between the "go" and "no-go" I use to keep the headspace more toward minimum. At least that helps keep case stretch down.
ETA- There are other things that we must consider. There are only 2 companies in the country that grind carbide dies. Every reamer maker has a tolerance of +-.001. If I spec out a reamer .422 it may come .421 or .423. If it cuts a chamber .421 and the resize die maker's die is large and only sizes to .421 the cases may or may not stick in the chamber of a semi. It's not as easy as many think and I'm not making 1 barrel for 1 guy. We're making 10,000 barrels for people I don't know using resize dies made to several different specs.
If I was making something for myself and wanted to use SSA brass I could design a reamer .417 in dia so the brass expands .002 on the first shot then have resize dies made by Whidden that resize back to .415. That would make the brass last much longer.

Last edited by constructor; 04/25/16.

"I threw a touchdown pass in the last minute to win the state championship game. I know it was 30 years ago and not relevant to this discussion but it makes me important and believable, it's the only great thing I even accomplished"
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,132
R
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
R
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,132
Buy one of Constructor's barrels, a super bolt, and never look back. There are 1000s of post on the net proving the accuracy of his barrels and his service is top notch. He's a great guy to chat with about any questions you may have as well.

My current ARP 18" bbl is plenty capable of submoa. While it's given many 1/2" groups, it's not a 1/2 moa bbl by any means. It's dang sure plenty accurate for the ranges I'd use the cart for hunting. It also cleans very easily/fouls minimally. I like it enough that I'll be buying 2 more this year. May trip some of my Wylde bbls for his as well.

http://ar15performance.com/home

IC B2

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Y
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Y
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Originally Posted by Reloader7RM
Buy one of Constructor's barrels, a super bolt, and never look back. There are 1000s of post of the net proving the accuracy of his barrels and his service is top notch. He's a great guy to chat with about any questions you may have as well.


That certainly wasn't my experience. To be fair though, mine wasn't a 6.8 barrel. He may be good to go on 6.8 stuff but I wouldn't recommend any sort of wildcat chambering from him.

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 130
C
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
C
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 130
Originally Posted by Yondering
Originally Posted by Reloader7RM
Buy one of Constructor's barrels, a super bolt, and never look back. There are 1000s of post of the net proving the accuracy of his barrels and his service is top notch. He's a great guy to chat with about any questions you may have as well.


That certainly wasn't my experience. To be fair though, mine wasn't a 6.8 barrel. He may be good to go on 6.8 stuff but I wouldn't recommend any sort of wildcat chambering from him.

Dan, You couldn't figure out how to size the brass correctly and you know it. If you push the shoulder back too far you get false pressure signs from excess headspace. I shot it with no problems. A gave it to a guy and he is shooting it with the exact same loads I have listed on the website just like everyone else that has one of those barrels.


"I threw a touchdown pass in the last minute to win the state championship game. I know it was 30 years ago and not relevant to this discussion but it makes me important and believable, it's the only great thing I even accomplished"
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,806
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,806
LOL! There are a lot of people out there who shouldn't be shooting wildcats!

I ran into a guy at the range one day who was complaining that his ultra-expensive match grade .50 BMG wouldn't chamber GI ammo! I tried to explain, but he'd have none of it. He kept pointing out how much he paid for the rifle! laugh


Islam is a terrorist organization.

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 130
C
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
C
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 130
Originally Posted by BarryC
LOL! There are a lot of people out there who shouldn't be shooting wildcats!

I ran into a guy at the range one day who was complaining that his ultra-expensive match grade .50 BMG wouldn't chamber GI ammo! I tried to explain, but he'd have none of it. He kept pointing out how much he paid for the rifle! laugh

You are right. There are a lot of people who follow the instructions on the die box and screw the die down to where it touches the shell holder. They don't know any different, they're following instructions that came with the dies and assume the instructions are good. Same as everything else resize dies have a tolerance and sometimes a different spec.
I have a set of RCBS 30 Herrett dies from the 70s when I had a TC pistol. I can screw that set down to the shell holder and it sizes the brass close enough for me to use, not perfect but close. Then I have a set of Hornady Herrett dies. If I screw it down to the shell holder it pushes the shoulder back .040" further than the RCBS set.
Tim W found a set of 6.8 Redding dies that would size the brass .021 under minimum when screwed down to the shellholder.
Precision Shooting's reloading guide is the most detailed guide to reloading for accuracy I have ever seen. Too bad the guy that run the printing co retired and no one continued to print Precision Shooting or the reloading guide. A lot of the older guys that helped with the book still post and write articles on 6mmBR.com.


"I threw a touchdown pass in the last minute to win the state championship game. I know it was 30 years ago and not relevant to this discussion but it makes me important and believable, it's the only great thing I even accomplished"
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Y
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Y
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Originally Posted by constructor
Originally Posted by Yondering
Originally Posted by Reloader7RM
Buy one of Constructor's barrels, a super bolt, and never look back. There are 1000s of post of the net proving the accuracy of his barrels and his service is top notch. He's a great guy to chat with about any questions you may have as well.


That certainly wasn't my experience. To be fair though, mine wasn't a 6.8 barrel. He may be good to go on 6.8 stuff but I wouldn't recommend any sort of wildcat chambering from him.

Dan, You couldn't figure out how to size the brass correctly and you know it. If you push the shoulder back too far you get false pressure signs from excess headspace. I shot it with no problems. A gave it to a guy and he is shooting it with the exact same loads I have listed on the website just like everyone else that has one of those barrels.


Yeah, that's funny, since I sent my brass back to you to verify, and you didn't have a gauge to measure it. I also emailed and posted pics of measuring the shoulder on my brass bumped back .004". Funny how you change your excuse every time this comes up, and none of them are true.

We could air all the issues you couldn't address with that one if you really want, but your post is just another example of typical "top notch service" from you - blaming the customer for problems with your barrel and loads.

Last edited by Yondering; 04/26/16.
IC B3

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Y
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Y
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Originally Posted by BarryC
LOL! There are a lot of people out there who shouldn't be shooting wildcats!


LOL is right. Do you think people who work up loads in used brass should be selling wildcats?

How about guys who blame the customer when their published wildcat loads in their barrel cause case head flow and loose primer pockets, if you use new or once-fired brass?

I can keep going...

Last edited by Yondering; 04/26/16.
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 130
C
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
C
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 130
Originally Posted by Yondering
Originally Posted by constructor
Originally Posted by Yondering
Originally Posted by Reloader7RM
Buy one of Constructor's barrels, a super bolt, and never look back. There are 1000s of post of the net proving the accuracy of his barrels and his service is top notch. He's a great guy to chat with about any questions you may have as well.


That certainly wasn't my experience. To be fair though, mine wasn't a 6.8 barrel. He may be good to go on 6.8 stuff but I wouldn't recommend any sort of wildcat chambering from him.

Dan, You couldn't figure out how to size the brass correctly and you know it. If you push the shoulder back too far you get false pressure signs from excess headspace. I shot it with no problems. A gave it to a guy and he is shooting it with the exact same loads I have listed on the website just like everyone else that has one of those barrels.


Yeah, that's funny, since I sent my brass back to you to verify, and you didn't have a gauge to measure it. I also emailed and posted pics of measuring the shoulder on my brass bumped back .004". Funny how you change your excuse every time this comes up, and none of them are true.

We could air all the issues you couldn't address with that one if you really want, but your post is just another example of typical "top notch service" from you - blaming the customer for problems with your barrel and loads.

There's an awful lot of people using those loads and posting about them. You are the only one that couldn't. Here's the tested pressure data from the same batch of barrels.
Added- Using SSA brass. Federal brass has .8gr less capacity.
28.5gr 1680 behind a 125 TNT hit 2500fps out of a 16" barrel.
29.5gr 1680-apx 2570- accurate with 125gr Speer TNT and Hornady SST
30gr 1680=2594fps--54925psi
30.5gr 1680 =2655 --57053 psi max(meaning do not try or use more powder than this)
30.5gr 1680 is pretty much max with 125gr bullets. The 125 Sierra prohunter hit 2600+- and the 125 Nosler hit 2680 with the same charge. The Sierra has more bearing surface, may be why it was slower.


"I threw a touchdown pass in the last minute to win the state championship game. I know it was 30 years ago and not relevant to this discussion but it makes me important and believable, it's the only great thing I even accomplished"
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,367
R
Campfire Kahuna
Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
R
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,367
assuming any printed load is safe is beyond stupid.

ANY component change from what was used as the initial test can skew the data.

There is a reason that books suggest starting low and working up....

I bought some powder once, right before nationals, and it was a fair amount... around 10 jugs of 8 pounders as I recall...

It was safe alright with the same old load we had been using... but it was also 200 fps slower and you could not gain the speed without hitting pressure...

If it had err'd the other way around and I"d have blindly loaded it.....

OTOH I dont much care for non accurate barrels so I'm a bit picky about who I use for barrels.

You have to be careful on both ends of this... who you buy from and what you buy vs what you expect. AND knowing how to deal with reloading and reading pressure signs.

Above all I"m not siding here, I"m just making some notes on what folks should be applying when moving forward in building/shooting/reloading the AR for instance...


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,367
R
Campfire Kahuna
Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
R
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,367
Originally Posted by Reloader7RM
Buy one of Constructor's barrels, a super bolt, and never look back. There are 1000s of post on the net proving the accuracy of his barrels and his service is top notch. He's a great guy to chat with about any questions you may have as well.

My current ARP 18" bbl is plenty capable of submoa. While it's given many 1/2" groups, it's not a 1/2 moa bbl by any means. It's dang sure plenty accurate for the ranges I'd use the cart for hunting. It also cleans very easily/fouls minimally. I like it enough that I'll be buying 2 more this year. May trip some of my Wylde bbls for his as well.

http://ar15performance.com/home


Bill Wylde is making barrels again? Heck I didn't even realize he was still around actually. Can always learn something here.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Y
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Y
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Originally Posted by rost495
assuming any printed load is safe is beyond stupid.

ANY component change from what was used as the initial test can skew the data.

There is a reason that books suggest starting low and working up....



You're absolutely right, as usual, and this situation was no different, on my end at least.

With my ARP barrel, I tried to work up to ARP's (constructor's) loads using the same components, except the brass was fireformed from new pieces. I got serious pressure signs (brass flow, loose primer pockets) at least 1 grain and 100 fps lower than ARP's loads with three different brands of brass from multiple lots. Despite following all the correct and suggested loading practices and more (including only neck sizing), brass would not survive with those loads unless it had been fired at least 4-5 times. Obviously powder and primer lots vary too, but I did try a bunch of different powders from multiple lots with no better results. As you can see, Constructor still says this is my fault, rather than admitting any issue with the barrel or loads.

When I sent this barrel back to him the first time for testing, he tested with "the same 50 pieces of brass he'd used for all 30 Herrett load development" per his own words.

My point in posting this is just to show that ARP stuff isn't necessarily "good to go" all the time, and good luck if you have issues because SOP seems to be "blame the customer". I think Constructor has done a good job of proving that again in this thread.

His 6.8 stuff might be fine, because the 6.8 is what he knows; just be cautious about anything outside the 6.8 with him.

Last edited by Yondering; 04/27/16.
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,367
R
Campfire Kahuna
Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
R
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,367
That was not directed to you FWIW.

It was a general statement.

I can't ever try any of his stuff because he refuses to ship to a secondary address and I have no other way of getting stuff, I'm not at home during the day and no one will leave stuff where we live, wouldn't want em to anyway.

But there are reasons things happen, and it can be as simple as a brass issue. Thats a given. It sure sounds like you are trying to say brass showed pressure signs until it had been work hardened. Thats a sign of bad, at least for that project, brass. It happens.

Its like trying to use FC brass in 223 for anything much at all..

Sorry you had issues, but if he would have provided you ammo loaded with his exact stuff, and it met what he said, then there is no foul.

Also there can be no guarantee on MV over a chrono unless the chrono has been verified on BOTH sides.

Not that I wanted to get into this at all as a single specific issue.

That said, learn from what I posted, it was expensive mileage for me. I'd be willing to be 90% of the time I can just rock along... but from time to time things just don't work.

Wish I was in a point in life where I had time, things like you had issues with is what I loved to buy off folks and play with to see if I could come up with different answers or not.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Y
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Y
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Originally Posted by rost495

But there are reasons things happen, and it can be as simple as a brass issue. Thats a given. It sure sounds like you are trying to say brass showed pressure signs until it had been work hardened. Thats a sign of bad, at least for that project, brass. It happens.

Its like trying to use FC brass in 223 for anything much at all..

Sorry you had issues, but if he would have provided you ammo loaded with his exact stuff, and it met what he said, then there is no foul.



I thought brass issues at first too. But the same issues showed up with Nosler, Hornady, and S&B brass. Not all the same lots for each either. I doubt all of those were "bad brass".

If his loads require a specific type of brass, he should have listed that, but didn't. There was no offer to test his ammo, and he refused to test my brass that I sent in with the barrel.

I was basically mocked for pointing to brass work hardening as a possible reason his loads don't show pressure signs in his used brass.

Receiving a product that with issues wasn't the sticking point for me. It was the condescending and arrogant way he chose to handle it, right from the start, that will keep me from going back.


Last edited by Yondering; 04/28/16.
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,367
R
Campfire Kahuna
Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
R
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,367
Oh I don't doubt your last paragraph at all. Reading him here and reading his website tells me about all I want to konw.

Reminds me of Fulton Armory quite a bit.

I"ve only used SSA brass, in 6.8 so I have no dog in the fight. I can't actually comment.

I can say that if the flip were true and you tried a load proven in a lot of brass, in 223, and put it in FC brass you'd be upset for sure likely.

The problem with wildcat stuff is you have to know a LOT more about things than you think you do for when you hit a bump in the road. For normal cartridges thats all been worked out behind the scenes before release.

Tough issue this. Customer service is a key, and even if the customer is wrong, you should generally do the best you can to satisfy them. Unless they are completely stupid and a moron, the only way to do that IMHO is buy the upper back, shut the case down, don't sell to that customer again and just move on.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,367
R
Campfire Kahuna
Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
R
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,367
BTW you don't ever know if you have pressure basically, unless you have a pressure gauge

Brass can tell some stories, but it can often lie big time too.

I"d go with case head expansion over what brass looks like every time.

And as noted, unless both yorus and his chrono's are calibrated, 100 fps ain't hard to come up with for a difference imho.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,237
M
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
M
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,237
I'm not singling out constructor because he has always seemed to be straight on the 6.8forum and does not bad mouth someone else's product to push his.

However. some of the loads I've seen pushed on the 6.8forums flat out scare me. There is a certain faction that is convinced that you can cut the front out of a magazine and load long and achieve .270 velocities safely. Personally, I'll start low and work my way up. If I'm not getting pressure signs, I'll go above book but I know when to stop.


molɔ̀ːn labé skýla
Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
583 members (219 Wasp, 007FJ, 160user, 10gaugeman, 17CalFan, 1Longbow, 56 invisible), 2,397 guests, and 1,107 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,597
Posts18,398,217
Members73,815
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.160s Queries: 14 (0.002s) Memory: 0.9130 MB (Peak: 1.0781 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-28 12:48:56 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS