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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 62
Campfire Greenhorn
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OP
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 62 |
Would like to hear comments,, recomendations about building a 221 fireball vs a 20 vartarg, I want to be able to spot my shots ,, observe hits on prarie dogs,,, accuracy and bullet drop of each ,,,any difference between the two,,, gun will be about 7.5-8 lbs,,22 inch barrel, any difference in recoil? any and all comments appreciated
Last edited by grayfox; 04/25/16.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,049
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,049 |
If you don't mind the minor hassles of a wildcat, I'd go .20 Vartarg.
The heaviest .224 bullets with decent ballistic coefficients are 40-grain plastic-tips, which can get 3400+ fps in a .221. But .caliber 32's have a similar BC, and in a .20 VT can get around 3700 fps. They shoot noticeably flatter and drift less in the wind than 40's in the .221.
My favorite cartridge on the Fireball case, however, is the .17 Remington Fireball. It really zips both 20's and 25 plastic-tips out there, and while you can spot your own shots with all three rounds, the .17 has the least recoil. But some handloaders have a hard time with the little bullets.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 930
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 930 |
17 bullets aren't bad as after the first 10 or fifteen bullets, fingertips are plenty sensitive enough to feel the little bastids....
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 617
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 617 |
I agree with everything MD said in his reply. As I own rifles chambered for all three of the cartridges mentioned. Different from him my favorite is the 20 VarTarg, probably because that rifle is the most accurate. Finally should it become necessary to sell the two factory standard chamberings will probably move easier. Have run into very few people that know what the VarTarg is.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,149
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,149 |
The .221 is really a hoot in a light sporter. The recoil is negligible and it is likely the "heavy" of the three.
My 700 Classic in the .221 does not recoil off target, making spotting shots easy, and the bark is noticeably quieter than a .223 of similar barrel length. Just a really fun walking-around varminter. If I am ever fortunate enough to shoot out the barrel on the .221 (highly unlikely as I suspect it will be good for many, many thousands of rounds), it would be really tempting to do the .20 Vartag as Mule Deer suggests, if for no other reason than it is different and has a very high "COOL" factor.
If really big game like chucks or jackrabbits is the goal, I would think the .221 would get the nod. While I have never owned or even shot a .17 Fireball I would think it would be near perfect for sage rats or p-dogs.
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10,424
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10,424 |
If I didn't like my Fireball so much, I'd have a 20 VT.
Up hills slow, Down hills fast Tonnage first and Safety last.
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 161
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 161 |
I have Two .221 fireballs and one vartarg and I really favor the vartarg fast and flat.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,049
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,049 |
quarterboredave,
A buddy has a custom Vartarg that is SUPER accurate, but then it has a custom barrel fitted by a good smith.
My Fireballs, both .17 and .221, have been factory 700's that shot very well, with their best loads consistently (not once every three groups) putting five in .5-.6. But his Vartarg shoot a little better than that.
Dunno if it makes any difference in the field, as in my experience very few people can hit small varmints like prairie dogs more often than they miss past 300-350 yards--in typical conditions. Wind is the reason, because a typical breeze on a PD town will sure mess with "pure" accuracy, especially after noon.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,961
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,961 |
I acquired a .221 Fireball specifically to build a 20 Vartarg, but after shooting it awhile I think I'm going to leave it be. Instead I think I'll try a 20-222, and if it's "improved" with 30 degree shoulder I believe that is a .20 Vartarg Turbo. That way I won't have a problem with trying to find another Fireball follower and bolt with the correct ejector. With the 20-222 it's just a neck-down from the standard 222, like the 20 Practical from the .223 case.
"I was born in the log cabin I helped my grandfather build"
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,507
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,507 |
I really like the Vartarg ballistics, but went .221FB largely to avoid re=tooling for .20 Cal. I get 3500fps from a 24" Hart pushing 40 Vmax and virtually no recoil from a sporter weight. If I need more gun, I'll reach for my .223 AI.
If your building on a Rem action, make sure to start with a Fireball specific short action bolt to avoid ejection issues.
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 10,871
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 10,871 |
I have both and tend to favor the Vartarg these days. Took a while to find a load it likes, and it is one of the few rifles I have that favors the Sierra over a Hornady VMax. Was hard to wrap my mind around that one.
RL7 in the Vartarg gives me great speed and accuracy. And spotting your shots is no problem. The 39 grain Blitz at about 3700 fps really limbers crows up. Have not shot many ground hogs yet but hope to rectify that soon.
But in no way would I throw stones at the .221 Fireball, it is a great little cartridge too.
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 62
Campfire Greenhorn
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OP
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 62 |
Thanks to everyone for taking the time to reply,,,, sounds like i cant go wrong with either one,, i think the Vartarg gets the nod
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884 |
Start 17 Fireball. Shoot out barrel.
Rebore to 20 Vartarg. Shoot out barrel.
Rebore to 221 Fireball. Shoot out barrel.
You will probably be dead.
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