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Yesterday afternoon I made it out to fire form some more brass and test a load for my new Shiloh 44-77 SBN I had re-barreled by John King. After testing these first formed loads I believe there is no point in further experimenting!
This group was fired from the bench with a 8X scope at 300 yards. After placing the MVA sight back on the rifle I did get it zeroed to 3,4,5 and 6 hundred yards.hope it carries on to a 1K in the same fashion.
First shot hit the very right edge of the target, the remaining hits were after adjusting left, the top three were one minute elevation adjustment. Two wet patches and one dry between shots.
[Linked Image]

The specifics.
Green Mountain 17 twist #4 barrel and the chamber is strictly for a bore size patched bullet.Transition from case mouth to bore is 25 degrees 25 thousands long.
Bore slugs at .437, bullet diameter is .431 and patched bullets measure .4365-.4370 that have the slightest of resistance when sliding into the bore.

Fire formed load.
500 grain pure lead swaged bullet,Captech brass, 90 grains Olde Eynsford 2X powder with a .060 wad compressed to a depth of .180 and a CCI BR2 primer. Fired case requires no resizing, patched bullet slip fits snugly.
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Last edited by nathanial; 04/26/16.
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Welcome to the dark side, beware now that you have shot the one true bpcr cartridge you may not find much pleasure in shooting those that came later and only try to immolate the master of all cartridges.


the most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it don't go where its supposed to.
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Not new to this, just got tired of shooting PP in a GG chamber. The rifle was originally a 44-90 SBN, having to size down the necks and expand only to blow them out by .010 every firing just seemed pointless. Shooting PP out of my 45-70 Hepburn produced nothing but problems, paper shearing and leading from the free bore and leede.

At the time I had this 44-77 reamer made up I had bore sized 45-70 reamer made with the same transition for 2.090 length Remington brass. So, my 40-65 Hepburn is being readied for shipment to John for a 45 barrel. Both of these chambers were inspired by Dan Theodore's paper patch chamber designs.

Best of all, with swaging, I get 270 44cal 500 grain bullets from a 20 pound spool of lead wire in about 2 hours for $75 bucks. So that should work out to about 240 45cal 540 grain bullets from a 20 pound spool.

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I just did get a Browning bpcr back that was turned into a 16 twist 45 , with the Dan t paper patch chamber. I am having to run 45-90 cases into my 44-90 st die, and then expanding the mouth back out to accept the .450 patched diameter bullets.
Have a green mtn. heavy sharps profile barrel in 44 that I am pondering what to do with. Thinking a borchardt with the 44-90st might be a nice touch.


the most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it don't go where its supposed to.
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I use Meacham bushing neck dies and BACO expanders to to get the correct inside diameter necks. Have been slip fitting/thumb seating my GG bullets also for many years now.
For this 44-77 I use a .438 expander that I polished a little to accept the .437 patched bullet into the case with a snug fit.

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This reamer is tapered almost like a 44-90 st. If I don't full length the 45-90 cases they lack a good bit of fitting. Neck sizing won't work. I suspect that when the cases are fire formed , they won't get touched again other than depriving and cleaning.
I don't resize for either of my Shiloh 44-77's for greasers. And if I keep the cases I fire formed with patched bullets separate I don't have to size those either.


the most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it don't go where its supposed to.
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WONDERFUL JOB ! Hope you'll keep the fine pics and tech work coming.

Kudos,

GTC


Member, Clan of the Border Rats
-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain





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Thank you.

I did fail to mention that all fired rounds so far was with dry patched bullets. Have wet patched a batch to try. My wet method is to roll the patches dry and then roll them over a damp sponge just so the outside layer gets damp without getting the base wet. Have found that they dry tight and and do not stick to the bullet as the patch can still be pulled off the bullets and stay wrapped as a cup. This method is tedious trying not to get the patch to wet but results in a more durable patch than dry and does not bond to the bullet as wrapping a wet patch. So, in to avoid to much neck and shoulder cramping I have been rolling them dry and seating each one.

My experience wrapping a wet patch is that I do not get the nice confetti directly in front of the muzzle but find it as far as 10 yards out. Have never found any paper stuck to a recovered bullet but have experianced smaller groups and eliminated many of the fliers by shooting dry patches or patches that were dampened on the outside layer.

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I've not found wet patching 8 lb paper to have any thing to offer other than frustration. 9lb pure cotton paper works best wet patched.
I'm still trying to figure out how you got 90 grains of 2f OE in that case, the most that I have ever been able to get in is 80, but have found 77 grs. to give me both the accuracy and the velocity cushion to make the requirements at the nationals.


the most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it don't go where its supposed to.
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80 grains is about what I can drop tube into the case also. What I do to get 90 grains is drop tube in enough powder until it comes up to the bottom of the neck and compress it and drop tube in the remainder to just below the top of the neck, add wad and compress to depth. I use two compression stems and one die body.

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Have you shot any over the chronograph? I'm thinking you're probably spending a bunch of time messing around, and an extra 15 grs of powder , not to mention the recoil , for nothing.


the most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it don't go where its supposed to.
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I have not done that yet, however, while fire forming I tried 75 - 90 grains and found better groups with the 90 grains. However, that's a good point, will mount the scope and try some different loads again at various ranges for groups and get the Oehler out and record velocities.

Recoil from the bench is pretty stiff but not bad at all off the sticks with the slip on spongy pad.

Did get a few rounds shot today at 1K off sticks, once on target all stayed well within the white, a 40 inch circle on a 72 inch square gong. So all is coming together well with this rifle and makes me happy!

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G
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Nice work nathanial, you need to find something to shoot and eat with that rifle this fall, they're very fun rifles to hunt with too.smile

Continued success.

Gunner


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I suspect that the 90 gr load shot better due to the size of the slick. If you cast up some of those 434470's from 16-1 wrapped in that 8 lb paper , with a single thick Napa rubber cork wad, on top of 74-77 grains of that 2f you may find just as good if not better accuracy.
I messed around for quite a while with the smaller diameter bullets, but didn't find consistent good accuracy until the diameter before patching got to .434 -.435.


the most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it don't go where its supposed to.
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The problem I encountered with the .434 bullets was I could not find paper thin enough to patch a bullet that will enter the bore. Thinnest paper I have found is .0015, with a .434 bullet dry patched at .438 and a bore size of .4365 with this barrel and chamber they will not chamber without patch damage. Even the old 44-90 Shiloh barrel would not chamber this dry patch combo, wet patched would as the patch shrank enough but not with this new barrel.

Sad thing is I invested in a .434 swage die set and have a mould of the same. Mabye the next barrel will have a larger bore to make use of those dies

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It's really not necessary for the paper to enter the bore when chambering a round. The leading edge of the paper right to the end of the throat works just fine. Some folks have burned up a ton of band width going on about how you shouldn't seat the bullet over .1 into the case... Problem is if you look at a factory loaded round from back in the day those rounds were seated really deep. Folks that shoot groove diameter patched bullets seat those just as deep as a grease groove.



the most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it don't go where its supposed to.
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Understand that, however, the chamber in this rifle has no throat to speak of, the patched bullet must enter the bore.
Here are sketches of the three reamers I had made. Have the actual JGS drawings in the shop. The neck dia of the actual reamer was changed to .4565 on the 77 and 90 reamers.
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


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