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Bob,

Thanks! I suspect you're right in that we're likely a lot more alike than different (truth be known, that's likely the case for most on this board).

Sounds like you've got "the spot" worked out to hunt, and that counts for a LOT.

As for recommendations, I'm going to give you the same recommendation I got from Dan and others - go to a good pro shop and shoot as many different brands as you can. Don't get caught up on or fixated on a name or even a single cam system vs others; just shoot stuff and see what speaks to you. You'll find one that works best for you, and that's what counts. There are a bunch of great makers out there now; Mathews, Obsession, Prime, Elite, Hoyt, G5, Mission, Parker... Hell, even Bear makes a damned great bow. It's pretty hard to go wrong, at all, and whatever fits/feels best to you will be "right".

So, you're hunting the Oneida at 60#? What draw length (28?), arrow weight and what speed? The reason I ask that is it's clear you don't want to lose the performance you're used to so if you can provide the speed and the arrow weight, we can back into an IBO range and narrow down the choices (perhaps just a little). If you're hunting that Oneida at 60#, 28" then it's going to be fairly easy to get the same performance at a much lighter draw weight; figuring out where is the next step.

Sounds like good advice and I am going to take it. THANKS!!

As soon as the river goes down, I am going to camp for spring clean up, close up all the deer stands for the year, cover the heaters in them with plastic bags to keep the dirt dobbers from filling them with mud, check the gas level in the tank at each stand and replace those that are low, find any downed trees to cut for fire wood and haul it up to camp to split, clean out the wood stove and the stove pipe, clear out all the roads and trails, check all the bridges because they have been flooded since late january, clean out the camp water system and flush it with bleach, replace the water filters, check the levels in the camp gas tanks, the batteries on the solar pannels, and all of that kind of thing that has to be done. My archery gear is over there at camp because that's just where it has been for about the last 12 to 15 years or so. I have a nephew that has wanted that stuff for several years and I think I'll just give it all to him and then I'll HAVE to get new stuff. Don't you just love it when a plan comes together?

Ain't camp clean up in the spring such fun? Helluva lot better than sitting inside, though.

The plan to give the stuff to the nephew is a great one. He'll love it, and you'll be fresh and clean looking for new gear. That plan never fails.

Just doing a little spiff-balling give what you've been saying earlier, I came up with this.

Let's ASSUME a few things (yeah, yeah, I know...)

Put the IBO of the Oneida of yours at 305 fps at 70#, 30", and 350 grain arrow. Now, up the arrow weight to 420 grains for a hunting arrow (fairly reasonable), put the draw length at 28" for your use of a release, and back the weight down to 60#. Odds are that you're shooting that set up at about 235 fps. Yes, I know that sounds slow, but you're giving up speed with the decrease in poundage, draw length, and the increase in arrow weight (along with putting stuff on the string that makes it huntable). Four hundred and twenty grains at 235 fps ain't no slouch, and it don't bounce off.

That calculates out to 51.5 ft.lbs., and .44 lbs/ft of momentum; PLENTY for deer, and given the age of the bow rather efficient (for that era, especially). I suspect that your hunting set up is pretty danged close to this, and to completely truthful, it's pretty danged close to what I was shooting prior to getting a new bow. I know, for a fact, that this is PLENTY for deer. There's been PILES of venison put in the freezer with performance that looks a lot like this, and there is again every season.

To get or beat 51.5 ft.lbs. and .44 lbs/ft with a 420 grain arrow, you're going to need to equal or beat that 235 fps, right? Looking at a 50# draw weight, figure on needing something with an IBO rating of at least 320 fps, and preferably 325 or better. There's a LOT of really great bows out there that will do 325 fps or better these days. Some that will exceed that threshold by a lot, in fact, but there are plenty that met or exceed that minimum to get your where you want to be in both draw weight and performance to allow you to choose between several different manufacturers and models.

Me, personally, I like Prime; absolutely feel in love with their bows when I shot them. Elite makes really great stuff as well, as does Mathews, and Hoyt, of course, and I'd have been quite happy with any of them. Obsession shooters rave about those bows (just didn't do it for me, though I found them to be very well made and quite nice). All of those bow manufacturers have very "smooth" drawing bows, something you're used to with that Oneida and something I suspect you'll be looking for. Every one of them has several bows that exceed the 325 IBO speed floor you're probably going to be looking at, and easily at that. Don't overlook Bear, either. I did shoot a couple of their new bows and was rather impressed. Again, they draw in a cycle that you're likely going to be looking for and have the speed you want as well. I left Parker out, unfortunately, because I don't think they go below 60#, and their draw cycles aren't as refined. PSE is still making great bows, but they've just never done much for me. YMMV, of course.

I'll give you an example off my bow from just this evening. I recently got some new arrows in and will be tuning up the bow for them. With a 125 grain head, the total arrow weight comes in at 503 grains. They are a high grain-per-inch, low-diameter arrow designed to penetrate like mad (and the do; I bury them to the fletchings on every shot into a Block target).

I cranked the bow up to 69# and then back down to 61# (I don't like really bottoming out the screws, nor taking them all the way out) and draw at 29" using a release. This is a bow that has an IBO rating of 340 fps (70#, 30", 350 grains). With the 503 grain arrows and my bow set up for hunting, I'm getting 270 fps at 69# and 256 fps at 61#. That equates out to 81 ft.lbs. and .60 lbs/ft, and 73 ft.lbs. and .57 lbs/ft, respectively.

Now, to match even the lowest of those numbers with the same arrow, your Oneida (or either of my older bows - and I've chronoed them to know their speeds) would have to be drawing roughly 85#. My shoulder says "OUCH" just thinking about that, how about yours?

I don't really care where in the poundage cycle that bow tunes in those arrows; the performance is WAY MORE than enough for anything I'll ever hunt with a bow. All it really is going to do is just bury my arrows deeper into the ground (or trees) on the offside of whatever I shoot. In fact, I think you can see why after I'm done with these arrows, I may very well put a set of 50-60# limbs on that bow, or maybe even 40-50#ers, and be plenty content shooting deer without straining my shoulder, elbow, or other things that go "pop".

Oh, one other thing - I don't know what you're currently shooting for broadheads, but if you haven't taken a look at the Magnus Black Hornets or Slick Tricks or QAD Exodus, you owe it to yourself to do so. All three of them tune great, fly great, and penetrate like mad. The Magnus also have a lifetime warranty (yep; you break one and they give you a new one).

Actually, that is exactly what my little Chrony says I am shooting and as you say, no problems killing deer at all. Dang man!! You know your schitt and it's great to have that kind of experience to draw from. Thanks a bunch and I will definitely look at what you have recommended.

I was shooting right there as well.

Wait until you shoot some of the new stuff out there. I suspect your reaction is going to be what mine was. "Wow", would be an understatement.

As for "knowing my schit"; there are others here that know FAR more than I do. I'm a relatively quick study and I try to pick up and pass on all I can. This stuff is FUN!

I am looking forward to it and thanks again.

Well I am trying to put some fun back into my hunting and archery was always fun back when I was keeping up with it. As I think back on it, I don't know if it was the compound bow and ever changing and improving archery gear, or the Baker climbing tree stand that just busted the sport of Bow Hunting wide open, but I bow hunted before either of those things hit the commerical market and things were a lot different then because there was not all the neat stuff we have today.

That Baker stand made it possible to hunt places where you just couldn't hunt before it came along because the DNR would fine you if you drove a nail into any tree on state owned land, so you couldn't build stands in the national forrest or on game management areas. I used to use a rope to climb trees back then. You didn't need to do that if you had a Baker. And wow. Tree stands have imprived about as much as the archery gear.

I am a little long in the tooth to use climbing stands anymore, but boy did they ever make bow hunting a lot better when they first came out.

Well, Bakers certainly made hunting more exciting, too. Any of us who ever hunted out of those know how "exciting" coming down a tree (often before we wanted to and faster than we wanted to) could be with a Baker.

Yep, and I have scarred arms and belly to prove it. And none of us even thought about a safety belt back then. It was only after we started learning about people breaking their necks that somebody started making safety belts. It's a dam wonder some us survived all of that because I was in the woods up a tree hunting every chance I had back then.

LOL, I snagged a used Samick Equus/rival (copy of Blackwidow SAG).
Had the first one in the US yrs ago (bought at ATA). It went 6# over spec.

This one I hope runs a little hot too, as it's 20# lighter than my first one (spec).

Could be a fun small game bow.

Also bought my old Tradtech Pinnacle 2 that was riser slimmed. Buddy bought it from another buddy, so i got it back. TT mediums on it, bottoms out at 58#. Decent, smooth.............but with meds is 62". Might dump those and get shorts.

Or not.

Still interested in a BW HS58 48-56# and FF rated. Found one, a little steep IMHO.