Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Wyoming - Bighorns (Laramie Peak) help !

In Ory-gun, pulling a Bighorn tag is a once-in-a-lifetime draw. It’s not just that you have to be “lucky” to draw (no preference-points are accumulated for each year of not-drawing) ... but if you should draw ... that will be your Only Bighorn tag in Oregon (EVER).

In a case of consistent-persistence ... (ie: after 2 decades of applying) ... my cousin has pulled a non-resident Wyoming Bighorn tag for the Laramie Peak unit (# 19). It’s a long haul from the rain-forest side of Orygun to get there, but he plans to put a serious hunt effort into whacking a decent Ram. He’s not a Trophy hunter per-se, but knowing that (at 60-something), he will be unlikely to draw another tag, he plans to be choosy.

He’s a very experienced (and knowledgeable) Elk, Deer and Speed-goat hunter ... in fact, if you try to walk around in his huge shop, you’d think he was a Jackson Hole shed collector. He will be carrying an accurate .300 Winny-Mag that I reload for him, so that is covered. But with both of us lacking any Bighorn hunt experience, I offered to solicit some solid (and hopefully helpful) tips from anyone on the board, who may have hunted this specific unit in the recent past. He already has a “field-judging” video that I loaned him years ago and he stays calm and shoots accurately, under pressure.

There are only 8 rifle tags for the roughly 450 square miles of the unit. The season is 60 days long ... Sept 1st to Oct 31st ... so even advice as to the most productive times of that season to hunt are appreciated. First thought is to go “early” in the season, before 7 other rams might have been harvested ... but maybe that isn’t the best approach ?

If you have relevant Bighorn hunt experience in this specific unit ... including good/bad access points, potential wall-tent camping areas, special restrictions ... or some general thoughts (beyond being in shape and staying hydrated ), we are open to advice.
Thanks,

Silver Bullet

168gr TSX’s ... launched just an “Einstein” below the speed-o-light

I would hire Mike Wakkuri Elk Mountain Outfitters in Wheatland. The area is in his back yard and there are some big rams in 19. It is a one shot deal and he is the guy.

This

That would be my suggestion also.. I have hunted with Mike and he is a super guy.. From this point on, that area will be my choice for sheep and Mike my choice for a guide.. This is too great and opportunity to mess around.. A lot of Laramie Peak country has private land mixed with the public.. A bummer, but that is the way it is..

I'll add a plus one to the above. The secret is getting out on that unit. Some world class bruisers coming off that unit the past couple years.

My wife's family lives in Wheatland so I'll have to look into this guy. Maybe he makes it to the coffee shop in the morning looks the rest of the town.

Seriously consider an outfitter. Access in that area is difficult, land ownership can be tricky to figure out. You live a long ways away. You and he probably can't stay all season trying to get a ram. This is probably your cousin's one time shot at a good ram, or maybe any ram. Don't waste the tag.

I did a DIY, took 3 weeks off and got my ram the last day I had. I should note that from mid-April until the season opened just after Labor day, we scouted every weekend but 2, and I had Fridays off, so drove and glassed the area several extra days. Obviously the area was pretty local to me. The rams were elusive, and the big rams were nearly invisible.

If he has lots of time off maybe make a trip and scout around and learn the quality of sheep in the area so he knows what can be found. You need to learn about bighorns to be able to effectively hunt them. They are not quite like deer, elk, or pronghorn. Access and knowing about bighorns is where the guide can help your success.

Best of luck.

Those glowing recommendations speak well for that local guide ... appreciate the information so far. I visited his web site and drooled over the photos of Bighorns posted there, right up until I read the cost ... $ 9,500 for a 10-day hunt. I suppose for folks who had paid $150,000+ for an auction Bighorn tag, that fee might be considered reasonable. But we are Po-boys ... If I had an extry $ 9,500 ... I’d probably hire a guide (in Africa) and shoot a Kudu and 5 or 6 other plains game to boot. My cousin would probably use it to trade-in/upgrade his ancient Dodge Diesel pickup. For the past 50 years, we have been serious DIY, public-land hunters ... and (with 2 exceptions), always packing the animals out on our backs or (when boned out) with his llamas. I can’t even spell “Gyde”
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In the meantime ... the reading/learning continues, as we uncover more about the secret lives of Bighorns ... From various videos, books, including Return of Royalty, Judging Bighorns, Wild Sheep Country, The Perfect Shot (North America) - Boddington, and other writings by Valerius Geist. Hey ... even some stuff from the Inner-Net <--- Cause everything posted there is always true ... (right) ?

22) The rut season doesn’t start till 2nd week of November and continues a week or two into December.
22) Mating rituals ... (if you’re the dominant male bighorn, you can sometimes kick a lessor Ram in his really-beeeg dangling nut-sack ... (rather than have to head butt him), to temporarily discourage him from further challenging for ewes. (Hey, I bet that would work in a biker-bar too ! )
23) Their complex multi-chambered digestive systems can allow bighorns to go 3-days without water ...
24) Due to their heavy “insulation”, their “neutral” body temp is when the outside air temp is around 20 degrees F. ... any warmer out and they are trying to cool-down.
25) They are (usually) more active in the evening than in the morning.
26) Rams can weigh up to 350 lbs, but are only 40” tall at the shoulder.
27) In order, they rely on Eyesight, Hearing and Smell ...ALL of which are Excellent
28) They will bed in timber (or cliff shade) in the daytime and often on open ridges, for the night
29) Average (good) rams in the unit are 165-175 ...

Questions:
When a group bugs-out ... do the largest Rams trail the group ... or usually break off and “stealth” away ?
Are the Rams solitary individuals, or in small bachelor groups ... or just hanging with the full herds ... (pre rut) ?
What’s a normal (daily) travel distance for an undisturbed group ?
How far will they travel for water (in September) ?
How “hard” was the 2015-16 Winter in the Laramie Range ? ... above/below snow/cold levels ?
Is this a good (water) year for horn growth ?

Silver Bullet

Even a Time-machine loses half it’s value ...
the minute you drive it off the lot.

Nothing wrong with attempting to make a go of it on your own. I highly suggest a good GPS with Huntmaps Wyoming loaded on it.
As others have said, the unit is a nightmare tangle of public and private land. I despise that unit so much, if you gave me an elk tag there, I would give it back. Drives me insane to even hunt turkeys in that unit.
I would plan on several scouting trips during the summer.
Good luck on your hunt.

Silver Bullet,

I mean no disrespect to you or your cousin, but I'd like to offer a little advice.

I'm no Bighorn sheep expert, by any means, although I've hunted them more than a few times. You're already talking to a few of very knowledgeable sheep guys on this thread and they should be able to help you with your questions.

However, if your cousin wants to kill a respectable ram, the DIY method has very low odds. Especially being a non-resident. I understand the the two of you are experienced hunters, but judging from your questions, there is a lot you don't know about hunting sheep and you certainly don't know the country. That $9,500 is worth it if you want to be successful. If your cousin doesn't care if he is successful or not and just wants to go out and hunt, then the DIY method will be just fine. You'll see some new country and have a good time. I just wouldn't count on killing a sheep and if you do, you'll most likely be settling for something you really don't want to shoot.

Take it from me, though, since I've done it both ways, having a knowledgeable guide along that knows the country, the sheep's habits, and that has the game spotting ability is well worth the coin. If you can at all swing the cost, you won't be sorry. Just some advice from someone who has been where you are now.

Whatever way you decide to go, good luck!

Borrow the money and go!!I was in that country yesterday. Very rough, lots and lots of private land.. Much of it blocking public land..

If I draw that unit, NO question, Mike will be my guide..

OK, OK ... there is a lot of planning (for this hunt) going on behind the scenes ... that I probably haven’t posted about. As of this point, he plans to leave a week early ... take a couple days to drive over with his brotyher and scout the balance of that week for potential Rams. He will likely hunt for the first 7-9 days of the season. He should have 3 others along, to be spotters in the scouting. If he is unsuccessful early, he may consider a second “shorter” trip, where someone takes camp over/back and he flies into Casper to get picked up for the hunt week. Summer scouting is likely out ... and the animals may not be in same locations months later anyway (?) ... plus, there’s no way he could take off to hunt for the full 60 days.

If he needed this one species to complete a Grand-slam ... or wanted to have bragging rights, then even I would recommend a guide for this hunt ... but we simple-folks go hunting to enjoy the time in the woods, share the experience with great hunting partners, who you trust your life with/to. When the season closes, if you don’t harvest an animal ... you can always add in a little Campbells Vegetable Beef to make that tag-soup more tasty.
Anyway, Keep that advice coming ...
and tell us about the conditions of the roads ... ? Is it country where it pays to have an extra spare tire along ?

Wyoelk: Yes, he plans to carry a Garmin 680-T and purchase the Wyoming public/private land chip.

Test1328: Shhhhh ... be Werry-Werry quiet ... You are exposing my “filter” questions. I was using some of those (water-year horn-growth) to expose the inner-net hunters from the true players. You passed.

WyoCoyotehunter: That public/Private checkerboard mix seems to be a real killer in this deal .. though it does seem that the National Forest covers a good part of the Laramie range ? ?
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It’s amazing how when you are talking with “Real Hunters” and mention that you have finally (or luckily) draw a tremendous tag ... that there’s always someone who hears about it and can offer a knowledge tidbit or an additional resource to contact. He does have a feeler out to someone, who’s related to someone, who knows someone, who might provide access (through some private lands) to hunt on otherwise almost unreachable Public land. We are both excellent map (terrain) readers and plan to fly the range, via Google maps. He’s also in contact with the local F/W biologist.

Silver Bullet

Tarzan “Know” ... where Tarzan Go ! <--- Geico commercial

Dude. You're clearly not getting the hints thrown at you. That unit starts 40 minutes from my front door. If I drew that tag, I would be on the phone tomorrow to an outfitter. I have pictures of friends the past couple years that have pulled bruisers off of that unit using a certain somebody that has been mentioned already.

No way would I trust that tag on 7-9 days of hunting on my own. It really is a once in a lifetime tag in a unit that is producing Rams that several believe to be topping area 5.

With that said...... I really do wish you the best of luck.

If the guy doesn't have the 10 grand to spend so be it, that is life...

I hunted that country in 1994 for mule deer, and further into the plains, antelope.
Whilst chasing muleys I saw sheep every day--no rams, but I wasn't glassing for them or for any sheep. I was shocked at the number of dead ewe skulls I found, presumably from cougars. I must have found 20.

The private land puzzle is very difficult, and seems to me that some of the gates were locked...land that eventually led into the public ground. We had permission and keys to get in there and that was the only reason we could hunt it.

Its been over twenty years, maybe things have changed, but likely for the worse.

Silver Bullet,

I hope you understood my earlier comment that while hunting National Forest where I had free reign to go anywhere I wanted to or could reach, it still took me 3 weeks to find the ram I wanted and then to be able to successfully stalk in on it. Only 9 days to figure out where rams might be, then try to get in on them is not a long time. In 5 months of scouting my area weekly I only found rams a handful of times.

I would note that summer scouting, at least in August might be very fruitful in indicating where the rams may be come the season opener. They will typically not leave summer range until the weather forces them to. In your unit there may not be as much need for elevational migration for winter.

The Laramie Pk. area is not as high as typical CO or even most of WY sheep range, therefore you will have generally warmer conditions there due to less adiabatic cooling. Sheep will likely be bedded in shade or in a good breeze. Bedded sheep look like boulders. Rams do not normally hang out in the same areas as ewes with lambs and during most of the hunting season will remain in bachelor groups, sometimes quite distant from the ladies. If you are finding ewes with lambs in the early season, look elsewhere. Come the rut it is different.

25) They are (usually) more active in the evening than in the morning. Probably it is more accurate to say they are least active in the middle of the day. If you are glassing you need to be glued to optics at first light and then by 3:00 PM until dusk. Where you put them to bed, look hard for them close by come morning.

26) Rams can weigh up to 350 lbs, but are only 40” tall at the shoulder. True, they are like barrels on short legs.

27) In order, they rely on Eyesight, Hearing and Smell ...ALL of which are Excellent. I am not sure hearing is so high on the list, but eyesight and smell for sure. You might be able to fool eyesight, but not smell. As far as noises, depends. Falling rocks are common in sheep habitat but snapping sticks are not. If you skylight yourself you are done for the day with those sheep.

28) They will bed in timber (or cliff shade) in the daytime and often on open ridges, for the night. That might be regional of a thing of herd "tradition". Some sheep don't like being hemmed in with timber, some sheep don't mind that. If it is hot they probably will seek available shade. That may be the shade of a single tree trunk or dense shade.

When a group [of rams] bugs-out ... the largest ram leads; the others follow.

What’s a normal (daily) travel distance for an undisturbed group ? Depends on the range they occupy; a mile or two in some areas would not be unusual. Sometimes much less. If they get spooked, it could be 5 miles or more.

How far will they travel for water (in September) ? Depends how scarce water is.

How “hard” was the 2015-16 Winter in the Laramie Range ? ... above/below snow/cold levels ? Winter wasn't bad, spring has been wet, feed ought to be OK. But keep in mind most sheep do have summer range and winter range (lower elevation where the snow is less).

Is this a good (water) year for horn growth ? This is not really relevant. Each year, while the ram puts on more mass at the bases, the horn length added is not that great as the ram ages. He gains the most length the first few years, and gains the most girth his last years. Better to ask how the last 8-9 years have been. You need to read up on horn growth in bighorns.

Your cousin needs to figure out what look in a ram he likes, then try to find that.

For a true pic. of the land, public and private, I would suggest you call the Douglas Forest Service and order a map.. That will give you an excellent pic of how much public land there really is in that unit.. Truthfully, I was shocked when I saw what they called the national forest in that area..

Thank You all for your inputs thus far (esp. Jaguar) ... I appreciate the positive feedback, from those who have done this hunt in the past. The preparation continues ....
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Had an opportunity to look over a copy of the Medicine Bow National Forest map on Sunday ... and checkerboard-ed doesn’t begin to describe it. It appears that land-ownership was distributed like paint, in a Jackson Pollock masterpiece. Whew ! ... Gonna generate some Dusty-boogers, driving out all those roads during pre-season scouting trips.
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Am currently re-watching “Advanced field Judging North American Rams”, VHS by Duncan Gilchrist, 58 minutes - 1995
and “Adventures with Rams - II, also by Gilchrist, 46 minutes, with (3) -1999 hunts. These videos have been in our collection for many years, always hoping to draw a B-Horn tag. If anyone has a suggestion of another (more recent) DVD of Bighorn hunts that they have watched and would recommend, please post it.
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I also picked up a new Garmin 680-T, that has a 4” (diagonal) display. It has a USB connector/recharger, uses both the USA and Russian GPS satellites, comes pre-loaded with a 100K Topo base-map of the entire USA .. and takes 8-MP zoom-able photos that encode the GPS location to Degrees, Minutes, and seconds, to 13-digits of precision to the right of the decimal point ! They still refuse to model the user interface after something simple to use, like a cell phone, but it should prove invaluable over there. The Hunt-X landownership chip for Wyoming has been ordered.

While I hate to spend any money with them, REI was/is having some giant Anniversary sale and had the 680T in stock (normally $600 most everywhere) for $ 428. If you get a year end member-dividend, that’s only $ 380 something. Sale good until May 30(?), and maybe online too ?

... Silver Bullet

Racing has been popular, ever since the second car was built - R. Petty

OK ... our progress continues. He and his brother take off on the 26th and should be in-country, late on the 27th. Phone converstaions with the local F/W biologist have been very fruitful. We especially love/appreciate biologists who also "hunt".
He is conversant with the operation of the Garmin-680T with the Hunt-Wyoming landowner chip, the rifle and back-up are dialed in and he's studied all the horn-judging videos. Some detailed TOPO maps have been printed out on waterproof Adventure paper (because they provide a wider overview, when out in the field) ... Once in camp, he will have 2 other friends joining him, acting as scout/spotters ... along with all the Alpha glass he/they could borrow.

Oh yeah ... and he has the contact information for gaining access (via a trespass fee) across THE key Ranch ... that is nearly a requirement to properly hunt Sheep the unit ... You know ... THE Ranch that no-one who has hunted there before, ever bothered to mention. Hmmmm ... Film at 11.

Anyway ... many Thanks to all who offered advice ... and my shiny quarter predicts:

98% chance he harvest a DIY ram
90% that it is representative of the size rams from that unit
85% that is among the top 3 taken there this year (8 tags)

Silver Bullet

If you decide to go Run with the Big-Dogs ...
first make sure you're off the chain.

I'm anxious to hear how it goes for him. Sounds like fun!

Why not just find a pilot in the area with a super cub and fly you and your buddy in? Easy way to get rid of the private property issue and from the road(s).