In Ory-gun, pulling a Bighorn tag is a once-in-a-lifetime draw. It’s not just that you have to be “lucky” to draw (no preference-points are accumulated for each year of not-drawing) ... but if you should draw ... that will be your Only Bighorn tag in Oregon (EVER).
In a case of consistent-persistence ... (ie: after 2 decades of applying) ... my cousin has pulled a non-resident Wyoming Bighorn tag for the Laramie Peak unit (# 19). It’s a long haul from the rain-forest side of Orygun to get there, but he plans to put a serious hunt effort into whacking a decent Ram. He’s not a Trophy hunter per-se, but knowing that (at 60-something), he will be unlikely to draw another tag, he plans to be choosy.
He’s a very experienced (and knowledgeable) Elk, Deer and Speed-goat hunter ... in fact, if you try to walk around in his huge shop, you’d think he was a Jackson Hole shed collector. He will be carrying an accurate .300 Winny-Mag that I reload for him, so that is covered. But with both of us lacking any Bighorn hunt experience, I offered to solicit some solid (and hopefully helpful) tips from anyone on the board, who may have hunted this specific unit in the recent past. He already has a “field-judging” video that I loaned him years ago and he stays calm and shoots accurately, under pressure.
There are only 8 rifle tags for the roughly 450 square miles of the unit. The season is 60 days long ... Sept 1st to Oct 31st ... so even advice as to the most productive times of that season to hunt are appreciated. First thought is to go “early” in the season, before 7 other rams might have been harvested ... but maybe that isn’t the best approach ?
If you have relevant Bighorn hunt experience in this specific unit ... including good/bad access points, potential wall-tent camping areas, special restrictions ... or some general thoughts (beyond being in shape and staying hydrated ), we are open to advice. Thanks,
Silver Bullet
168gr TSX’s ... launched just an “Einstein” below the speed-o-light
I would hire Mike Wakkuri Elk Mountain Outfitters in Wheatland. The area is in his back yard and there are some big rams in 19. It is a one shot deal and he is the guy.
I would hire Mike Wakkuri Elk Mountain Outfitters in Wheatland. The area is in his back yard and there are some big rams in 19. It is a one shot deal and he is the guy.
That would be my suggestion also.. I have hunted with Mike and he is a super guy.. From this point on, that area will be my choice for sheep and Mike my choice for a guide.. This is too great and opportunity to mess around.. A lot of Laramie Peak country has private land mixed with the public.. A bummer, but that is the way it is..
My wife's family lives in Wheatland so I'll have to look into this guy. Maybe he makes it to the coffee shop in the morning looks the rest of the town.
Seriously consider an outfitter. Access in that area is difficult, land ownership can be tricky to figure out. You live a long ways away. You and he probably can't stay all season trying to get a ram. This is probably your cousin's one time shot at a good ram, or maybe any ram. Don't waste the tag.
I did a DIY, took 3 weeks off and got my ram the last day I had. I should note that from mid-April until the season opened just after Labor day, we scouted every weekend but 2, and I had Fridays off, so drove and glassed the area several extra days. Obviously the area was pretty local to me. The rams were elusive, and the big rams were nearly invisible.
If he has lots of time off maybe make a trip and scout around and learn the quality of sheep in the area so he knows what can be found. You need to learn about bighorns to be able to effectively hunt them. They are not quite like deer, elk, or pronghorn. Access and knowing about bighorns is where the guide can help your success.
Those glowing recommendations speak well for that local guide ... appreciate the information so far. I visited his web site and drooled over the photos of Bighorns posted there, right up until I read the cost ... $ 9,500 for a 10-day hunt. I suppose for folks who had paid $150,000+ for an auction Bighorn tag, that fee might be considered reasonable. But we are Po-boys ... If I had an extry $ 9,500 ... I’d probably hire a guide (in Africa) and shoot a Kudu and 5 or 6 other plains game to boot. My cousin would probably use it to trade-in/upgrade his ancient Dodge Diesel pickup. For the past 50 years, we have been serious DIY, public-land hunters ... and (with 2 exceptions), always packing the animals out on our backs or (when boned out) with his llamas. I can’t even spell “Gyde” - - - In the meantime ... the reading/learning continues, as we uncover more about the secret lives of Bighorns ... From various videos, books, including Return of Royalty, Judging Bighorns, Wild Sheep Country, The Perfect Shot (North America) - Boddington, and other writings by Valerius Geist. Hey ... even some stuff from the Inner-Net <--- Cause everything posted there is always true ... (right) ?
22) The rut season doesn’t start till 2nd week of November and continues a week or two into December. 22) Mating rituals ... (if you’re the dominant male bighorn, you can sometimes kick a lessor Ram in his really-beeeg dangling nut-sack ... (rather than have to head butt him), to temporarily discourage him from further challenging for ewes. (Hey, I bet that would work in a biker-bar too ! ) 23) Their complex multi-chambered digestive systems can allow bighorns to go 3-days without water ... 24) Due to their heavy “insulation”, their “neutral” body temp is when the outside air temp is around 20 degrees F. ... any warmer out and they are trying to cool-down. 25) They are (usually) more active in the evening than in the morning. 26) Rams can weigh up to 350 lbs, but are only 40” tall at the shoulder. 27) In order, they rely on Eyesight, Hearing and Smell ...ALL of which are Excellent 28) They will bed in timber (or cliff shade) in the daytime and often on open ridges, for the night 29) Average (good) rams in the unit are 165-175 ...
Questions: When a group bugs-out ... do the largest Rams trail the group ... or usually break off and “stealth” away ? Are the Rams solitary individuals, or in small bachelor groups ... or just hanging with the full herds ... (pre rut) ? What’s a normal (daily) travel distance for an undisturbed group ? How far will they travel for water (in September) ? How “hard” was the 2015-16 Winter in the Laramie Range ? ... above/below snow/cold levels ? Is this a good (water) year for horn growth ?
Silver Bullet
Even a Time-machine loses half it’s value ... the minute you drive it off the lot.
Nothing wrong with attempting to make a go of it on your own. I highly suggest a good GPS with Huntmaps Wyoming loaded on it. As others have said, the unit is a nightmare tangle of public and private land. I despise that unit so much, if you gave me an elk tag there, I would give it back. Drives me insane to even hunt turkeys in that unit. I would plan on several scouting trips during the summer. Good luck on your hunt.
I mean no disrespect to you or your cousin, but I'd like to offer a little advice.
I'm no Bighorn sheep expert, by any means, although I've hunted them more than a few times. You're already talking to a few of very knowledgeable sheep guys on this thread and they should be able to help you with your questions.
However, if your cousin wants to kill a respectable ram, the DIY method has very low odds. Especially being a non-resident. I understand the the two of you are experienced hunters, but judging from your questions, there is a lot you don't know about hunting sheep and you certainly don't know the country. That $9,500 is worth it if you want to be successful. If your cousin doesn't care if he is successful or not and just wants to go out and hunt, then the DIY method will be just fine. You'll see some new country and have a good time. I just wouldn't count on killing a sheep and if you do, you'll most likely be settling for something you really don't want to shoot.
Take it from me, though, since I've done it both ways, having a knowledgeable guide along that knows the country, the sheep's habits, and that has the game spotting ability is well worth the coin. If you can at all swing the cost, you won't be sorry. Just some advice from someone who has been where you are now.
OK, OK ... there is a lot of planning (for this hunt) going on behind the scenes ... that I probably haven’t posted about. As of this point, he plans to leave a week early ... take a couple days to drive over with his brotyher and scout the balance of that week for potential Rams. He will likely hunt for the first 7-9 days of the season. He should have 3 others along, to be spotters in the scouting. If he is unsuccessful early, he may consider a second “shorter” trip, where someone takes camp over/back and he flies into Casper to get picked up for the hunt week. Summer scouting is likely out ... and the animals may not be in same locations months later anyway (?) ... plus, there’s no way he could take off to hunt for the full 60 days.
If he needed this one species to complete a Grand-slam ... or wanted to have bragging rights, then even I would recommend a guide for this hunt ... but we simple-folks go hunting to enjoy the time in the woods, share the experience with great hunting partners, who you trust your life with/to. When the season closes, if you don’t harvest an animal ... you can always add in a little Campbells Vegetable Beef to make that tag-soup more tasty. Anyway, Keep that advice coming ... and tell us about the conditions of the roads ... ? Is it country where it pays to have an extra spare tire along ?
Wyoelk: Yes, he plans to carry a Garmin 680-T and purchase the Wyoming public/private land chip.
Test1328: Shhhhh ... be Werry-Werry quiet ... You are exposing my “filter” questions. I was using some of those (water-year horn-growth) to expose the inner-net hunters from the true players. You passed.
WyoCoyotehunter: That public/Private checkerboard mix seems to be a real killer in this deal .. though it does seem that the National Forest covers a good part of the Laramie range ? ? - - - It’s amazing how when you are talking with “Real Hunters” and mention that you have finally (or luckily) draw a tremendous tag ... that there’s always someone who hears about it and can offer a knowledge tidbit or an additional resource to contact. He does have a feeler out to someone, who’s related to someone, who knows someone, who might provide access (through some private lands) to hunt on otherwise almost unreachable Public land. We are both excellent map (terrain) readers and plan to fly the range, via Google maps. He’s also in contact with the local F/W biologist.
Silver Bullet
Tarzan “Know” ... where Tarzan Go ! <--- Geico commercial
Dude. You're clearly not getting the hints thrown at you. That unit starts 40 minutes from my front door. If I drew that tag, I would be on the phone tomorrow to an outfitter. I have pictures of friends the past couple years that have pulled bruisers off of that unit using a certain somebody that has been mentioned already.
No way would I trust that tag on 7-9 days of hunting on my own. It really is a once in a lifetime tag in a unit that is producing Rams that several believe to be topping area 5.
With that said...... I really do wish you the best of luck.
If the guy doesn't have the 10 grand to spend so be it, that is life...
I hunted that country in 1994 for mule deer, and further into the plains, antelope. Whilst chasing muleys I saw sheep every day--no rams, but I wasn't glassing for them or for any sheep. I was shocked at the number of dead ewe skulls I found, presumably from cougars. I must have found 20.
The private land puzzle is very difficult, and seems to me that some of the gates were locked...land that eventually led into the public ground. We had permission and keys to get in there and that was the only reason we could hunt it.
Its been over twenty years, maybe things have changed, but likely for the worse.
I hope you understood my earlier comment that while hunting National Forest where I had free reign to go anywhere I wanted to or could reach, it still took me 3 weeks to find the ram I wanted and then to be able to successfully stalk in on it. Only 9 days to figure out where rams might be, then try to get in on them is not a long time. In 5 months of scouting my area weekly I only found rams a handful of times.
I would note that summer scouting, at least in August might be very fruitful in indicating where the rams may be come the season opener. They will typically not leave summer range until the weather forces them to. In your unit there may not be as much need for elevational migration for winter.
The Laramie Pk. area is not as high as typical CO or even most of WY sheep range, therefore you will have generally warmer conditions there due to less adiabatic cooling. Sheep will likely be bedded in shade or in a good breeze. Bedded sheep look like boulders. Rams do not normally hang out in the same areas as ewes with lambs and during most of the hunting season will remain in bachelor groups, sometimes quite distant from the ladies. If you are finding ewes with lambs in the early season, look elsewhere. Come the rut it is different.
25) They are (usually) more active in the evening than in the morning. Probably it is more accurate to say they are least active in the middle of the day. If you are glassing you need to be glued to optics at first light and then by 3:00 PM until dusk. Where you put them to bed, look hard for them close by come morning.
26) Rams can weigh up to 350 lbs, but are only 40” tall at the shoulder. True, they are like barrels on short legs.
27) In order, they rely on Eyesight, Hearing and Smell ...ALL of which are Excellent. I am not sure hearing is so high on the list, but eyesight and smell for sure. You might be able to fool eyesight, but not smell. As far as noises, depends. Falling rocks are common in sheep habitat but snapping sticks are not. If you skylight yourself you are done for the day with those sheep.
28) They will bed in timber (or cliff shade) in the daytime and often on open ridges, for the night. That might be regional of a thing of herd "tradition". Some sheep don't like being hemmed in with timber, some sheep don't mind that. If it is hot they probably will seek available shade. That may be the shade of a single tree trunk or dense shade.
When a group [of rams] bugs-out ... the largest ram leads; the others follow.
What’s a normal (daily) travel distance for an undisturbed group ? Depends on the range they occupy; a mile or two in some areas would not be unusual. Sometimes much less. If they get spooked, it could be 5 miles or more.
How far will they travel for water (in September) ? Depends how scarce water is.
How “hard” was the 2015-16 Winter in the Laramie Range ? ... above/below snow/cold levels ? Winter wasn't bad, spring has been wet, feed ought to be OK. But keep in mind most sheep do have summer range and winter range (lower elevation where the snow is less). Is this a good (water) year for horn growth ? This is not really relevant. Each year, while the ram puts on more mass at the bases, the horn length added is not that great as the ram ages. He gains the most length the first few years, and gains the most girth his last years. Better to ask how the last 8-9 years have been. You need to read up on horn growth in bighorns.
Your cousin needs to figure out what look in a ram he likes, then try to find that.
For a true pic. of the land, public and private, I would suggest you call the Douglas Forest Service and order a map.. That will give you an excellent pic of how much public land there really is in that unit.. Truthfully, I was shocked when I saw what they called the national forest in that area..
Thank You all for your inputs thus far (esp. Jaguar) ... I appreciate the positive feedback, from those who have done this hunt in the past. The preparation continues .... - - - Had an opportunity to look over a copy of the Medicine Bow National Forest map on Sunday ... and checkerboard-ed doesn’t begin to describe it. It appears that land-ownership was distributed like paint, in a Jackson Pollock masterpiece. Whew ! ... Gonna generate some Dusty-boogers, driving out all those roads during pre-season scouting trips. - - - Am currently re-watching “Advanced field Judging North American Rams”, VHS by Duncan Gilchrist, 58 minutes - 1995 and “Adventures with Rams - II, also by Gilchrist, 46 minutes, with (3) -1999 hunts. These videos have been in our collection for many years, always hoping to draw a B-Horn tag. If anyone has a suggestion of another (more recent) DVD of Bighorn hunts that they have watched and would recommend, please post it. - - - I also picked up a new Garmin 680-T, that has a 4” (diagonal) display. It has a USB connector/recharger, uses both the USA and Russian GPS satellites, comes pre-loaded with a 100K Topo base-map of the entire USA .. and takes 8-MP zoom-able photos that encode the GPS location to Degrees, Minutes, and seconds, to 13-digits of precision to the right of the decimal point ! They still refuse to model the user interface after something simple to use, like a cell phone, but it should prove invaluable over there. The Hunt-X landownership chip for Wyoming has been ordered.
While I hate to spend any money with them, REI was/is having some giant Anniversary sale and had the 680T in stock (normally $600 most everywhere) for $ 428. If you get a year end member-dividend, that’s only $ 380 something. Sale good until May 30(?), and maybe online too ?
... Silver Bullet
Racing has been popular, ever since the second car was built - R. Petty
OK ... our progress continues. He and his brother take off on the 26th and should be in-country, late on the 27th. Phone converstaions with the local F/W biologist have been very fruitful. We especially love/appreciate biologists who also "hunt". He is conversant with the operation of the Garmin-680T with the Hunt-Wyoming landowner chip, the rifle and back-up are dialed in and he's studied all the horn-judging videos. Some detailed TOPO maps have been printed out on waterproof Adventure paper (because they provide a wider overview, when out in the field) ... Once in camp, he will have 2 other friends joining him, acting as scout/spotters ... along with all the Alpha glass he/they could borrow.
Oh yeah ... and he has the contact information for gaining access (via a trespass fee) across THE key Ranch ... that is nearly a requirement to properly hunt Sheep the unit ... You know ... THE Ranch that no-one who has hunted there before, ever bothered to mention. Hmmmm ... Film at 11.
Anyway ... many Thanks to all who offered advice ... and my shiny quarter predicts:
98% chance he harvest a DIY ram 90% that it is representative of the size rams from that unit 85% that is among the top 3 taken there this year (8 tags)
Silver Bullet
If you decide to go Run with the Big-Dogs ... first make sure you're off the chain.
Why not just find a pilot in the area with a super cub and fly you and your buddy in? Easy way to get rid of the private property issue and from the road(s).
Got a call from my cousin today around noon. The long 2-day drive over to the Laramie unit was fairly smooth. They had to set up an initial camp about 3 miles from where they had hoped to. Main forest/desert roads were better than expected ... side roads .. not so much.
First day was mostly orienting ... driving roads to verify what was actually open. Second day was scouting (2 x 2) and climbing ridges ... one rattlesnake, 3 Rams in a bachelor group. Two were not shooters, the third was too far away to judge and darkness and intervening private lands prevented getting any closer. Third day scouting (also 2 x 2) one herd of 19 with a single smaller ram ... and when returing to teh rig, 8 close by (no rams).
Temps low 80's ... Very Dry ! Need to carry lots of water away from the rig.
No cell coverage in camp ... only from some of the higher ridges. Opening day is tomorrow (Sept. 1st).. Game on !
wyoelk: .... and the GPS-coordinates of those 2 “bruiser” Rams are ... ? <grin> - - - Here’s an item I forgot to add from his call on the 31st. While out scouting, they have met one other tag holder, who has one buddy along for scouting/packing ... as they are also DIY hunting. So if the guide (Mike) has 2 clients and 2 others are accounted for ... that only leaves 4 other Bighorn hunters in the entire unit. - - - Received a brief text-only message this am ... They have moved their area of focus about 15 miles away (as the Vulture soars) and have no new Rams yesterday or this am. He is working his way along a ridgeline that he says: Looks like it should be re-named “Bighorn Paradise”. Yesterday, he nearly stepped on a 4-foot rattler ... <--- one of the hazards of actually getting out and hunting vs. truck scouting. Maybe you really need 4 people along to hunt this country ... a gun bearer, a water-boy, a Snake-wrangler and a great B’wana. - - - I always felt that rather than spot-stalk, he would most likly end up shooting a Ram that he intercepted (while bedded) ... by sneaking up on it, while out scouting (through prime country) and shooting one at 75-100 yards.
They only have 2 rigs, so rather than continue to scout as two “pairs” ... they are dropping 1 person off ... to hike/climb to a vantage point and glass, while the second person goes on to another spot, to do the same.
If they are finding ewe groups with half-curl or less rams, they need to keep moving on and looking elsewhere. The large rams are unlikely to be near, and not actually with, the ewe and lamb groups right now. Find ram groups, and keep looking at the leader of the group as that will be the best ram.
While I was out, my confuser received a brief (async) text-message from my cousin (at an elevated glassing point), around 11am today. Summarized below ... - - - We had rain yesterday and the mountains were socked in with clouds and low fog, but that might have got these animals moving. So far, we've hunted all of Southeastern, Wyoming ... at least my "feet" feel like it.
We've spotted another group of bachelor Rams this morning, near ******* <--- (redacted by H. Clinton), but by time we got over there, they had turned on their Romulan cloaking devices. We're taking a stand in the area, because the last time we saw them, they were bedded and didn't look like they were in a hurry to go anywhere. - - -
Finally .... it sounds like the Fat-Lady may be out in the hallway, warming up ! I would say that I'm just waiting for the phone to ring, but even if they shoot one today, it would likely get taken out some canyon bottom and they wont be back in any cell coverage to place a call, until Friday or Saturday. Since its 3 O'clock there now ... my guess is they will probably stay there till dark ... either trying for a shot or to positively GPS this groups bedroom. PS. ... Don't forget to wear your red headlamps and drop bread-crumbs ... on your hike out.
... Silver Bullet
Launching precision hand-loaded (All copper) boolits ... into adjacent Zip-codes, since 1994 ...
This has me watching and I am not even a sheep hunter!
You did not "seen" anything, you "saw" it. A "creek" has water in it, a "crick" is what you get in your neck. Liberals with guns are nothing but hypocrites.
Wyoelk ... you got that right ... Too-Good a unit ! - - - When we last left (er: heard from) our intrepid adventurers, they had spotted a bachelor group of Bighorn rams and decided to home in on them. They dropped off to the "invisible" side of a separating ridge and had carefully worked their way down into position. Chris initially left his brother behind and snuck up and over the ridgeline. He was surprised that he was only 125 yards from the spot where the Rams had previously been feeding and milling around. Not spotting the rams, he waved his brother up and they hunkered down .. as the clouds increased and the weather deteriorated. At nearly 8,000 feet, the winds gusted to 75-80 mph and the rain blew in your face and up your nose. They stayed just short of dark, but no rams re-appeared. They assumed that the animals sensed the impending weather change and had taken shelter as only a wild animal can. The following day, hunting (in a slightly different area) brought only Ewes and lambs.
They spoke with (2) other (60-something year old) hunters, who had planned to bug out ahead of the weather and were not sure if/when they would return. Those hunters had spotted Zero rams during the season. Chris and Bro now had spotted a total of 8 rams (over 9 days), all in bachelor groups. This concluded the first phase of his Bighorn hunt.
He had a chance to call and talk with the biologist the day they left ... and there were no reports of rams being checked in from this unit ... (yet). They towed the trailer back to the Salt-Lake City area and temporarily stored it. Then drove non-stop back to the Portland area, the next day.
Here's where it gets doubly interesting .... Since he has been consistently applying out-of-state (in 6 or 7 states) for multiple species, for the last 20 years or so ... this year in addition to the Wyo-Bighorn tag, he also drew a muzzle-loader Beeeg-Bull tag in Arizona ... For those of you familiar with the Eastern edge of the state, ... it includes Units 1, 2B, 2C. I'll start a separate thread to report on this hunt, but its only a 7 day season and offers the opportunity to hunt during the tail end of the rut and potentially "whack" <--- (a technical term) ... a 340-380 class bull. Think National Forest, public-lands ... bordering the White Mountain Apache lands, as well as the Escondilla mountains (along the AZ/NM. border).
While he has hunted with a muzzle-loader in Oregon (decades ago) ... you are limited here to "primitive" open ignition, no scopes and no saboted bullets. So while we were busy preparing him for his first ever Bighorn hunt ... in the background, we purchased a new CVA Accura-V2 front stuffer (with a 30" barrel), scoped it, sighted it in (in 5 shots), then played with pelletized Triple-7 powders, removable breech-plugs, primers and 250gr Barnes saboted TEZ "boolits" . When it was Good-to-Go ... we filed the knobs off and returned to thinking Bighorns. - - - - At home between hunts, there was just enough time for he and his (dedicated) brother, to stop by their work for a week ... re-introduce themselves to their respective Bosses and explain how they were about to hit the road (again) for a couple more weeks of hunting. They are leaving at O'Dark-30 tomorrow (Sat) ... back to Utah to get the trailer, then on Sunday, tow it down to Alpine, Arizona and start Elk scouting (for 4-days). The season is only 7 days long (23-29th) ...so after he takes a Bull, they plan to hustle the trailer over East to Alba-turkey ... then North on I-25 ... through Denver and back up into the Laramie country ... for Wyoming Bighorns part-Deux !
Will have more updates tomorrow ... including that there has now been one Ram checked in.
During their week of recuperation at home ... a follow-up call to the Wyoming biologist revealed that a ram had been checked in, by a client of the well-recommended guide out of Wheatland. It was measured (green) and should be in the mid 170's. While that would be above the average-ram for the unit (<-- if there is such a thing) ...not sure if that is considered to be one of the two "bruiser-class" rams previously referenced ... as located by the guide ? - - - - Some things learned during their first foray.
Several "Large-ish" Bull Elk were spotted in the area, while glassing for Rams. They included a symmetrical 7x7 and several 6x6's. Most of the area is steep, rocky and with little timber for cover ... not your typical Elk country. I was sent a few digi-scoped photos of the Elk. Another picture shows a small band of ewes and lambs, all up and feeding in the immediate presence of several bedded down Elk. They are right out in the open, on a steep low-grass and sagebrush hillside ... again, not a scene we typically observe.
Maneuvering around in that steep and rocky country often requires balancing along lichen covered boulders and jumping onto and off of those same rocks. Note to self: When wet ... (even by a light mist) lichen covered boulders are Really-Slippery !
They have had much better success using Spot/stalk ... (at least from the "Spot" aspect). It really requires glassing Long and Deep, to be able to pick out any bedded (non-moving) sheep at distance. If you do spot a Ram and can't immediately rule him out a shooter ... close some distance until you can. As he might be the "ONE" and you may not get another opportunity to clearly see him.
You have to keep a constant eye-out for SNAKES ! They don't all rattle first and offer you a warning ... perhaps some snake-gaiters would provide a little peace of mind ... considering how much country he has been covering.
The game plan for Part-2 of this Bighorn hunt, is to have his brother along until at least Sunday the 2nd. Beyond that, he will be hunting solo. The remoteness had him considering picking up a PLB or SPOT unit, just in case he were to fall somewhere in the rocks ... or down in a Hell-hole and need an emergency response. Stay tuned ... as they say, we hope to have film-at-11.
Well, the Rams in the Laramie unit of Wyoming should be nervous. The dynamic duo whacked a 7x7 Bull on the opening evening of his Arizona Muzzle-loader Elk hunt. You can read the brief details, in the thread: "Truth, Justice and ... etc." in this same forum.
They will be driving up to/through Wheatland tomorrow and Chris will then have 5 days with his brother along, to help scout. If he stays past that time, he will not only be hunting DIY, buy also Solo. Sure hope the planets align and he gets a shot opportunity at one of the Rams they spotted on his first trip.
wyoelk: any updates on additional Ram harvests in the unit ?
Silver Bullet
Racing has been popular, since they built the second car - R. Petty
wyoelk - Thanks for the update on Ram harvests. - - - I found that there was a single photo of his Arizona Elk, "hiding" on my (2G) cell-phone and have just posted it, on the Arizona hunt thread. - - - The boys should be back on station in the Laramies today. If you see an ancient white Dodge diesel, with oregon plates ... and 2 Really-tired looking guys glassing till their eyes perspire ... that would be the A-team.
... Silver Bullet
"I Love it ... when a plan comes together !" - H. Smith
Chris sent out a text Wed. am .... he had hiked in and was sitting in his Favorite glassing spot (*** <-- Redacted). He had a 6x6 Bull run past, through a gap in the Rimrock. No sheep seen on first day back. Later Wed. night (just before dusk) he left a voice mail ... (from a high point), before returning back to the truck. They had spotted a group of sheep, with one small ram (a non-shooter). Clear, sunny and cold ... - - - I'm afraid I'm going to go "dark" for a few days. I leave at 11am today, for La Grande. Will stay over with Bob and then head out to set up camp for our rifle Buck-deer hunt. There is Zero cell coverage for me up there. However, ... we've got N.E. Orygun covered and the A-Team is locked and (Muzzle)-loaded, down in the Laramimes. I expect nothing but great results. Carry-on !
Ins-spread . . . . 33-5 . . . . . . . . ----- Gross . . . 345-3/8 - - - - Will post more Elk details under the Arizona thread and update the Wyoming Bighorn story tonight.
... Silver Bullet
You might be a Redneck ... if ya' ever shot one of your mirrors off !
Back from my NE. Orygun Buck Deer hunt ... none of Bambi’s relatives were harmed (by our group). Maybe the now firmly-established Wolf pack we heard howling at night just 1/2 mile from camp was a contributor ? - - - Anyway ... after the dynamic duo whacked the previously mentioned 7x7 Bull on the opening evening of Arizona’s Unit 1, 2A, 2B muzzle-loader Elk hunt, they towed the trailer back up to the Laramie unit in Wyoming ... and resumed part-2 of Chris’s Bighorn hunt. They had some issues with the trailers leaf spring perches that required some welding in town (for a temporary repair). The biggest issue was with the weather ... either blowing rains or socked-in foggy conditions, which kept them from effectively glassing for days at a time. While I was off on my deer hunt, they elected to store the trailer in Wheatland and drive the Dodge diesel back home ... hoping for a better weather window late in the season.
After paying bills, re-supplying and leaving all muzzle-loading gear (Elk meat and rack) behind here ... Chris was re-packed, re-freshed and ready for the final battle with the Bighorns. Unfortunately, his bro’ was now out of vacation time. Undeterred, Chris left Portlando this morning (Friday), heading East on I-84 through the pouring rains and high winds that are hammering the state, to drive back (solo) to Wyoming. He plans to hunt through the end of the season or until he crosses paths with a decent (suicidal) Ram. This will be Wyoming Bighorns Part-3
A call on Wednesday to the wildlife biologist, revealed that 2 additional rams have been taken, bringing the total to 3 (of 8 possible tag holders). I hope in my notes, that I didn’t get these two kills mixed up .... but: ... An older guy (after waiting 18-20 years for a tag, aren’t they all “older”) got a nice (170 class ram) down South in the unit, in a WMA area. That area is not typically known for having lots of sheep, but they do hide-out there on occasion. On Monday a near full curl, but small circumference (160 class) ram was taken by a senior (who had previously been hunting for weeks with his son). We heard that one of the Guides (2) clients tagged a ram early but it’s not known if the Guides second client is still hunting ... or failed to tag-out in his 10 day hunt window. With at least one other hunter who gave up and went home ... there should only be at most 3-4 Ram hunters in the unit for the remainder of the season. - - - There is a rifle Elk season that will be going on concurrently in the Laramie unit, when he gets back there. The good news ... most of those Elk hunters will be down at lower elevations ... and they will stir-up any Rams down there, hopefully sending them back to the higher country. Also, the beginnings of the rut will start near the end of the month. So, with Friday and Saturday as travel days ... and Sunday to final provision and get the trailer back up into the mountains ... he will have at most 14 more days to hunt ... Wyoming (solo) Bighorns Part -3.
. . . Silver Bullet
Ya’ might be a Redneck ... If any of yer kin are named “Cooter” ...
The spot where Chris is camped, is completely out of cell-phone coverage, so I asked him to text me if he hunted out of the usual areas he had been covering. I received 3 consecutive morning messages, telling me what canyon we should look for his body in, if he doesn't re-surface .. as he has been extending his hunt areas to the Steep/Deep canyons, more to the South.
After 1 day with no text from him, the phone rang late this am ... and the Caller ID said it was Chris ! I was really hoping to hear ... " RAM Down - Ram Down ! " - - - Instead, I got his voice trying to talk above a windstorm: He was high on a ridge near (Re-dacted), and able to connect and get a call out. It was 20 degrees, with 25 mph winds and 1" of flat white rain coming down ... ie: colder than a Snowmans butt-cheeks. Said he doesn't "Weigh-Enough" to hunt sheep on those steep ridges in this kind of weather.
He was able to camp in the same spot he and his brother had previously. Most of the rifle Elk hunters only stayed for the first 3-4 days of the season (Sat/Sun/Mon/Tues) and they had generally camped and hunted at lower elevations.
Yesterday afternoon he spotted a band of sheep at a distance and put a long (hour plus) sneak on them. He crept up over a ridge and expected he would be able to glass and ID them, still one ridge away ... But NOOOOO ! .... they were just over the edge of the same ridge ... at 20 yards ! All ewes, with one 1/2 curl Ram. No joy - as he's not shooting any "teenagers". It's Go-Big ... or Go-Home.
He is such a sneak hunter, even his shadow can't always tell where he's headed and keep up with him. This is exactly how I always envisioned him taking a Ram on this hunt. No 450 yard shots ... but by walking in on it ... the Ram none the wiser ... until it was too-late.
He will need to re-provision (in Wheatland) in a day or two. Said it' really hard to hunt all day long, come back, sort/dry gear, have to make dinner, clean-up, plan the next days hunt ... sleep a little .... (Repeat)
Weather is supposed to break this afternoon and be nice/clear on Friday.
He met one other (local) Ram-tag holder, who has been hunting some of the same areas as he is. - - -
... Silver Bullet
If ya can't run with the Big-Dogs ... write on the "Inner-net", that ya can
At 12:30 today, I fielded the phone call that I’d been waiting over a month for ...
“RAM - DOWN ... RAM DOWN !”
The weather broke yesterday afternoon and this morning in the Laramie Bighorn Sheep unit of Wyoming, it was clear. So Chris set out much further North, planning to spend all day, sneak-hunting a long ridgeline that he had still hunted through weeks earlier ... and felt back then, it was “Ram-Heaven”.
Just before noon, while watching a small band of sheep (with a sub-par Ram) feed below him, he turned around and spotted a Ram uphill of him. It had him spotted too, so he turned on his cloaking-device and in slow motion, brought up his rifle and moved into a shooting position. The shot distance was 145 yards ... At the shot, the Ram took a few stiff legged steps, then went down amid the rocks ... struggled to get up (he could see blood on the chest) ... then it bedded, with just his head showing. He waited literally “minutes” ... for it to either stand up again or expire. It got up ... he hit it again ... The Ram then headed off, walking toward a cliff edge ... (think walking dead) ... before he had a good shot window, that piled it up. - - - He estimates that it’s around 7 years old ... described it as 3/4 curl, with good mass and tips that have started to flare to the outside. While he was out there hunting solo at the time (and his truck was several miles away) he said there appeared to be a driveable road, about a mile downhill of his location. He hung up, planning to go photo it, then cape it out and process the Ram. - - - Some will say success is simply ... “Time in the woods (er: mountains)” ... But I truly beleive it’s the result of meticulous preparation .... combined with Consistent-Persistence. In any case .... Score one for DIY Ram hunters ... ! Yeeee - Haaaaawww ! ! !
. . . Silver Bullet
Friends may help you move ... Real-Friends ... will help you pack out a Bighorn Sheep !
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
Did it the right way. Well deserved. Congrats to Chris! Persistence does it for sure.
My first ram was DIY backpack hunt. Took 3 weeks off work, part without pay. Got him on my last available day. Never gave up, though feeling pretty "snakebit" by then. Had to work next day.
Great story. Thanks for keeping it going with installments.
Jaguar: ... I know what you mean about keeping a thread going with “installments”. I always hate it, when I’m diagnosing something, by searching on the web .... You finally find a thread, and someone with the exact same symptoms you have (like a truck that cranks, but won’t start) ... they try 7 things, none of which work ... then say they will take it to a pro mechanic the next day (dealer or independent) ... and they never post the results/diagnosis .... you just never hear from them again.
In that vein ... here’s another (close to the final) “installment”. - - - Chris called Saturday am and we were able to talk for over 10 minutes. He was already part way up on (********) Mountain and would shortly head down solo, with his first load. The inbound access that morning, through some private property (with permission), allowed him to get much closer for the pack-out. He planned to get it all out in just 2 trips that day.
Friday night, he left for the truck at 5pm (with the head and cape) and it was 8:30pm (el-Darko), before he hit his truck (some 3.5 miles downhill along the ridge). He was afraid if he headed directly-down toward the closer "visible" road in the bottom, that he might hit a cliff or rockslide that he couldn't navigate in the dark or would have to cross private property without permission. He (somehow) forgot to mark the trucks parking spot, with a GPS waypoint that morning and when the truck never materialized, he was sooooo exhausted, that he briefly considered building a fire and spending the night in the woods (er: rocks) .... do rocks burn ? After sitting for a while, he pushed on ... (turned out he was only 400 yards above the truck). - - - He later left a voice mail (@ 2:30pm) Saturday, that he was strapping the second load on and was headed down on the final trip ... said he was never so happy to ... Get Off a Mountain ! - - - Sunday he will relax and pack-up ... Expect no more comms till Monday, when he needs to check the Ram in with F/W office in Cheyenne, to be pinned. I believe they will measure it then also.
Spent the day with Chris on Saturday and got "the rest of the story". Also brought home a USB-chip with 345 (5-MB) photos from his Arizona Elk and Wyoming Ram hunts (Parts 1, 2, 3).
So here's a few that I've had a chance to downsize to the 100KB posting limit here ... More (hunt) details to follow.
This has been of my favorite threads in a long time - reminded me why I like the campfire. I found myself checking daily for updates.
That is a great ram and very deserved. Congratulations to Chris!
^ this; hope springs eternal a DIY like this is the only way I'll ever be able to do this which I consider to be the PENULTIMATE NA hunting adventure!!!!
Thanks a ton for keeping at it so cool to read!
Congrats to the successful hunter what an amazing trophy!
Picked up some more details from Chris (over a Lasagna dinner Saturday night in Troutdale) ... about the Bighorn hunt and the conditions in Wyoming. In no particular order:
When he checked the Ram in at Wyo Fish/Game on Monday ... they asked about unit/county of harvest (but not a GPS location or even a push-pin in a map). They took a couple of measurements ( L+R horn length and Base circumferences) and approximate age. Unfortunately, they did all the measurements in CM’s (vs. inches) and just scribbled it on a piece of paper. The drilling and pinning is a quick/simple process. - - - When the head was dropped off here (in PDX) at the Taxidermist, the guy looked it over and estimated it will go in the 160’s. Once cleaned up and dried, he has someone who will officially measure it. The guy is based in Portland and while there are not that many Bighorn Rams taken in Oregon each year, many Portland-based hunters take Rams in other states (even some of the those Casper-white Sheep from Alaska) ... so he knows his stuff across the sheep families. - - - The harvest date (Oct.-21) was sliding towards the typical Early November start of the Bighorns rut. As Chris snuck along, side hilling up the flanks of Bear head Mountain (<--- there, I said it) ... he cautiously peered into each new draw and constantly glassed ahead, in order to see ... before being seen. When he spotted the band of ewes feeding some 500 yards ahead and slightly below, he slipped into the rocks above them and glassed for any associated Rams. It was over 20 minutes later, that he picked out the Ram that was behind and above him ... it had its head cocked sideways and was giving him the stink-eye ... right up until the leading edge of the 180gr Speer grand Slam entered its chest (just under 3,000 FPS). He had some time to judge it, before deciding to shoot and recalled a conversation with his taxidermist, well before the hunt. “If the Ram has large bases and carries that mass well (through at least the first 2 quarters), then even if he’s broomed off and has shorter overall length, then he’s a shooter.” Also, looking at the last (of 3) photos above (Ram-on Rock), you can see that just another step or 2 and the Ram would have been doing his best impression of Wile E. Coyote .... and attempting to “Walk on Air”.
Don’t know if you can zoom-in on the photo looking down, but there are big chips/chunks missing from the leading edge of the Rams horns ... clearly he was both a "fighter" and a Lover.
Looking back, Chris felt that this Ram was not really squiring the small band of ewes below him (yet), but simply keeping track of where the band was located and making sure no other mature Ram (besides the one teenager Ram, that the ewes were already tolerating) was anywhere near them. Essentially, the Ram was on "Overwatch". - - - As we went through his photos, he has a picture of his Ram, taken after the first shot, with the ram bedded down above him (just head and horns visible) ... it clearly shows a tree branch in the way. You always need to know your Boolits line-of-flight ... relative to your scopes line-o-sight. He did ... and compensated, by imperceptibly moving up along the boulder he was using as a front rest ... with his folded jacket underneath the fore-end, as a soft front pad.
... Silver Bullet
“Tarzan Know .... where Tarzan go ....” <---- well, most of the time anyway
Been enjoying this thread too. I was able to hunt my Wyo sheep this year up NW Wyoming. Did they confirm the age with the Biologist? 6.5 or 7.5 years?
Would love to know the measurements. I would have judged the ram differently from the couple photos posted. Not to say he's not that size ram, just that I would have gotten it wrong .
Thanks for taking the time to post all the updates.
When I started this thread (way back in May) I was hoping to find one or two fellow Campfire hunters, who had hunted Bighorns in or were very familiar with the Laramie unit in Wyoming. To be able to pick the brains of someone with local (and current) knowledge ... getting answers to serious questions, available at the speed-o-light (OK, at the speed of the Inner-net) would be invaluable, for a DIY hunter. As Ken Howell used to say ... “There’s some pretty Fart-Smellers on the CampFire”. I had no idea it would turn into a nearly 5-month odyssey. - - - I want to personally thank those who responded with positive suggestions and/or answered specific questions we had. I knew that Chris (even pushing 60), was the real-deal as a hunter and determined to make his sheep-hunt a success ... not some Wanna-be flatlander from New-York-Ciddy, who needed to be pampered and led by the hand, to a Ram (potentially bedded on private property) that he was then told to “Shoot”.
While some of the initial responses to our requests were along the lines of the infamous ... “You can’t get there from here.” ... we simply took that as a warning that: “This wasn’t going to be an easy hunt.” ... and not to brush it off. That the responders just didn’t know our level of dedication and emphasis on pre-hunt preparation wasn’t a concern. To be doing prep simultaneously, for two trophy hunts, whose seasons overlapped and were both over 1,400 miles from home, was a blessing and a handicap. No matter how many Bull Elk, Deer, Bears, Speed-goats, Cougars or Coyotes you have notched on your stock ... Bighorn Rams “are” different ... (and addicting). - - - Solving the many riddle(s) of hunting Bighorns, was a little like being a good (experienced) puzzle solver. You know, the box says on the cover, that it has 250 pieces inside and they show a completed photo, of a monster Muley ... The difference here was that there were 1,000 pieces in this puzzle ... there was no photo of a Ram on the cover ... and you had to assemble it ... with all the pieces turned upside down ... then when you think you have it solved, turn it over. If it’s not right ... someone comes in, takes it all apart, shakes the pieces in the box and you start all over again.
I’d especially like to thank wyoelk, Jaguar, WyoCoyoteHunter, Broomd and test1328, for adding important pieces (and content) to the assembling of this puzzle. Their cautions about checker boarded lands, Sheep (Ram) behavior and how it changes with the weather, seasons and the rut, along with other preparations/cautions we needed to heed, were taken to heart. No way would it have been as successful without their inputs. In the early season (1st hunt) Chris and his team spotted 8 rams ... tried to put the hurt on a couple potential shooters and yet were consistently hammered by the poor weather. The weather also caused him to cut-short the second attempt, with his brother ... and yet the lure of taking a Ram (and the fact that he left the travel-trailer over there), drew him back for his solo hunt during Part-3 and a final closure. He recorded 10,700 miles on his trucks odo ... doing the AZ-Elk and 3 Wyoming trips ... but when he’s sitting in the rest home ... the Stories he will be able to tell ! - - - I was asked to hold back on posting a photo of his ram any earlier, as he was considering doing a 2-hunt (DIY) article for one of the magazines, but has decided to pass. Instead, he’s spending all his spare time, building his own home (DIY of course) and studying the harvest stats, scouting reports and preference-point levels in 7 Western states, so he will know where to apply, for some 2017 tags. Note: He didn’t pick the Laramie-unit this year ... by chance. He has an entire room at his place, dedicated to out-of-state hunting ... what’s hot, how unit harvests are trending, application deadlines, etc. - - - Now that the season is over ... it would be nice to know how the Elk Mtn. guides 2nd client did and see any photos of their Rams ... and also learn how many total rams were taken (believe it is 4 ? of the 8 tag-holders) ... (which would be below average ?).
Nice. He looks like he has pretty decent sized bases. Also, a very deep and open curl, which may deceive a viewer, but actually adds a fair amount of horn length. That little flip outward at the tips is a nice touch. Hard to read the rings on that one. Maybe 6 1/2 years old?
By comparison I regularly see full curls up outside of Cody that have nowhere near the base circumference, nor the horn length this boy shows. On some of those rams, the bottom of the curl is barely below the jawline. You might not be able to pass a softball through the opening in the curl. If the horns dip well below the jawline like Chris' ram appears to, it is a decent ram. The photo indicates that the top of the horn at the low point of the curl may actually dip below the jawline. That may be camera angle, but the head on shot shows the horns dipping fairly low also.
Outstanding for a DIY in new country that is all chopped up with no-entry private land. He really had to do his homework first, then double down to get that ram. He really ought to be proud of his hunt, and the ram.
This has been a fun read. Thanks for all the details.
Unpacking, he found the notes from the Fish/Game check-in, (converted from mm into inches/eighths).
Right horn: Length 32-4 Base 14-3
Left horn: Length 30-5 Base 14-1
The biologist noted 7 annual rings on one horn and 6 on the other. Now I’m no Ram-scoring expert, but I’m pretty sure they don’t start growing at different times, on opposite sides of their heads ... so if there 7 (identified) on one side, lets call him 7.5 years old. - - - Tomk and Gies340 ... you guys are holding out on all the Vicarious Ram hunters on 24hr ! As long as you are safely home and “Mostly” unpacked, you guy each owe us a separate thread on your hunts. Understand if you need to obscure a few landmarks and scrub the GPS coordinates off your photos, but we need to know days hunted, solo or with buddies, base-camped or packed in, elevations trekked, rifle/scope/boolit combos ... est. age/horn measurements, autopsy reports ... etc, Oh yeah .... and PHOTOS !
I went guided. Will post on a new thread mid-December cause deer season(s) are at hand...:) It may be of interest to anyone having points in WY after a sheep.
The outfitter/guide Dustin Stetter is a friend who I have known for years. Stephan Hoadley came along as a guide and those two made it a fantastic hunt for me. After watching them spot and plan stalks, they deserve the highest recommendation, imho. The SCI was 173 1/8"
I went guided. Will post on a new thread mid-December cause deer season(s) are at hand...:) It may be of interest to anyone having points in WY after a sheep.
The outfitter/guide Dustin Stetter is a friend who I have known for years. Stephan Hoadley came along as a guide and those two made it a fantastic hunt for me. After watching them spot and plan stalks, they deserve the highest recommendation, imho. The SCI was 173 1/8"
I was lucky enough to see this ram and he is an absolute stud! Congrats again my friend
Tom, how many days did you hunt? DIY is much more feasible and successful when you can hunt for a month. Condensed to a week, I'm leaning on a guide.
When you can hunt an endless amount of days and gather information from the internet and magazines and whatnot it makes it a lot more feasible, especially in country that's forgiving and you typically don't need horses. Thats not to say a high country horseback wilderness hunt is tougher or better but there are situations where hiring a guide is the smart move. Hell, if you place a value on time a guided hunt may have been cheaper on the OP's hunt report given he went out and back and down to AZ and back and all over the west for god knows how many days. Sometimes the private access gained is worth it on a once in a lifetime hunt but that's for each individual to decide. Subtract the time, the gas, the food and lodging and it's a good deal
Looking forward to seeing pictures of your ram Tom, it damn sure was big in person
Since no one is telling stories, here, at least is a ram photo. This is an example of a ram north of Cody that has a tight curl. He is about a full curl by some standards, but does not have the length or mass of rams in other places.
And for comparison, Chris' ram.
They look to be similar in age, but the Cody ram may actually be a year older, though smaller. The Cody ram has no flare, either, though that is hard to tell. That strain sometimes pinches in rather than flaring.
Bit of season wrap-up here: Of the 8 Bighorn Sheep tag-holders in the Laramie unit, there were 6 Rams checked in and 2 hunters who will have to add some Campbells Vegetable Beef, to their tag-soup. The “average” harvest rate for this unit over the last few years has been almost 90% (7 of 8). So with the weather being a real negative factor, the fact that 6 of 8 still connected, shows that Ram hunters can be pretty determined.
I received 2 additional photos (below) of Rams taken in the unit. The first one is pretty much full curl and has good mass. Believe it was from the Father (of the Father-Son team) and was shot within a couple miles of where Chris took his Ram. As previously described (by Jaguar), this Ram has the “tighter” curl, typical of “Cody” area rams ... where the bottom of the horns "sweep" barely reaches the lower edge of the jaw. The curl makes a beautiful doughnut or “Bagel” and is what most people envision, when the term Bighorn Ram is mentioned.
I’ll have to get my book back “Return of Royalty” (by Dale Toweill and Valerist Geist), that describes where the sheep transplants that revived the herds in this Laramie area came from. There are 2 slightly different genetic pools that populate SE Wyoming and one pool produces Rams with the tight horn curls and the other the more sweeping/flaring ... almost Marco-Polo looking horns on Rams. They are not a different species, their ranges overlap and they do interbreed.
PS. That book is a very good read on Bighorns and the efforts to re-introduce them to their historic ranges in the West. Used copies are available (very reasonable), from Jeff-Bezos-is-a-Billionaire.com.
The second ram photo appears to have been taken at the check-in station ... based on the numerous horn sets on the shelf and floor that look to be pick-ups ... (ie: the skull edges were not squarely cut, but are fragmented, typical of what scavengers would leave behind). The slightly broomed Ram horns being held, have great mass, and the wider/deeper sweep of the latter genetics. Believe he said it was 9-10 years old (<-- probably on Medicare) . It was shot further South in the unit, off the mountain complex near where Chris camped and spent most of his early season time scouting/hunting.
... Silver Bullet
“Get off my Lawn ... (and stay out of the rose garden) ! ”
.![[Linked Image]](https://wildcountryphotos.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/classsic-ram-copy.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://wildcountryphotos.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/chris-ram.jpg)