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Google Audette test method or some such... for some reason we have to call it a ladder these days rather than giving credit to Creighton Audette for publishing the use of it, if not totally inventing it.


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Originally Posted by Ringman
If a new rifle is only good for a minute of angle at best and one fires a ladder test at 400 yards, how does one know any bullet hole is at the top or the bottom of the rifle's group ?


It's a fairly complex concept, but I like to explain it like this:

1) You note where the bullet hits the target.

2) If the other rounds hit below it, it's at the top of the group.

Now here's the tricky part:

3) And vice-versa.



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smokepole,

How 'bout if five shots on a 400 yard target, each with one grain more than the previous shot, make a group 1" high and 2 5/8" wide? Which one is at the top of the node and the other at the bottom of the node?


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You are truly a stupid SOB.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Originally Posted by Ringman
If a new rifle is only good for a minute of angle at best and one fires a ladder test at 400 yards, how does one know any bullet hole is at the top or the bottom of the rifle's group ?

Should one fire three or four of each amount of powder at 400 yards?


Firing 3 or 4 of each powder increment would be an OCW test rather than a ladder test.
You don't need to go to 400 yards for OCW, 100 yards works fine.

Choose one test or the other. If you don't know the difference, it's harder.


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Originally Posted by Ringman
smokepole,

How 'bout if five shots on a 400 yard target, each with one grain more than the previous shot, make a group 1" high and 2 5/8" wide? Which one is at the top of the node and the other at the bottom of the node?


That's a tough one, but I like to explain it like this:

1) Find the node and designate the bullet holes that are included in it.

2) Find the bullet hole within the node that is above all the others. It's at the top of the node.

Now, here's where it get's tricky again:

3) And vice-versa.



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PS, what I meant to say was, the whole question of which round is at the "top of the node" is irrelevant.



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Originally Posted by Ringman
smokepole,

How 'bout if five shots on a 400 yard target, each with one grain more than the previous shot, make a group 1" high and 2 5/8" wide? Which one is at the top of the node and the other at the bottom of the node?


Is he talking about top of the node as in "the highest most bullet impact mark" rather than the top of the node "the highest charge weight impact relative to the cluster"?

I do believe he is...

This doesn't get much better than this...


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Quote
Firing 3 or 4 of each powder increment would be an OCW test rather than a ladder test.
You don't need to go to 400 yards for OCW, 100 yards works fine.

Choose one test or the other. If you don't know the difference, it's harder.


If you fire five shots at 400 yards it takes five shots. If you fire five three shot groups at 100 yards it is fifteen shots. If you fire five four shot groups at 100 yards it is twenty shots. Tell me which one will find the best load the quickest with the least amount of wear on the barrel and wallet.


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You're the one who has countless posts asking how to do load development.

I have no idea how many rounds or barrels you have wasted.

I would suggest you decide on one method and stick with it until you know what you're doing. Screwing up both methods doesn't seem to be getting you anywhere.


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NVhntr,

Quote
Screwing up both methods doesn't seem to be getting you anywhere.


Tell me how I screwed up either one so I don't do that again, please.


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Originally Posted by Ringman
NVhntr,

Quote
Screwing up both methods doesn't seem to be getting you anywhere.


Tell me how I screwed up either one so I don't do that again, please.


I prefer and use OCW and have confidence in the results I get with that method. Here is a link describing the procedure in detail.
OCW

Here is why I prefer OCW
OCW vs. Ladder

If you want to use a ladder test, Google Audette Ladder Test and follow the instructions.


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Originally Posted by Ringman
Tell me how I screwed up either one so I don't do that again, please.


Ringman, I don't know if you screwed up on your test, but when you ask this question, it shows that you don't understand the purpose of a ladder test:

Originally Posted by Ringman
smokepole,

How 'bout if five shots on a 400 yard target, each with one grain more than the previous shot, make a group 1" high and 2 5/8" wide? Which one is at the top of the node and the other at the bottom of the node?


Five shots with one inch of vertical at 400 is outstanding, they're all in the node, and it makes no difference which round hit highest on the target. Unless four of the shots were clustered even closer than 1" (1/4 MOA) and one "opened up" the group and began a trend of stringing vertically that was continued by the next shots in the sequence.

Which didn't happen.



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Quote

Originally Posted By Ringman
Tell me how I screwed up either one so I don't do that again, please.


Ringman, I don't know if you screwed up on your test, but when you ask this question, it shows that you don't understand the purpose of a ladder test:


Or it could be I want to see what someone will post.

Quote
Which didn't happen.


I'll try to find the target.


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I can't wait.



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ah, a master baiter playing now...

Glad you have time to play with people....


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Originally Posted by Ringman

I'll try to find the target.


Edge of my seat.




Dave


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Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
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Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
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My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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If there is 1" vertical spread at 400yd you need to do the ladder test at 800yd with those 5 shots... paint each bullet a different color and see which three charges have the least vertical spread.
Then load in 0.3 increments in that charge bracket and take it to 1200yd, then pick the 3 in between the closest cluster and load 0.1 increments and shoot at 1500yds.
pick the load in the middle of the best cluster, hope it works with the new barrel after burning the original one.
Or you could just load a bunch of bullets with the median charge of those 5 shots (if it is cluster of 5 not 4 and 1) and call it good.

Neither my rifles or optics are good enough to shoot that tight, so I dont know if it is me or the equipment that is lacking. Or my tongue in cheek misaligning the sight picture.


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I find single charges in a ladder can lead to false results. I generally load 3 of each in a ladder and use a chrono since even good groups at shorter distances don't mean much to me with horrible numbers. That works fine at 600yds and in but I don't like to push much further than that with big spreads in MV.

Here is a load ladder shot with 3-shots each of 41.5gn, 42gn, 42.5gn, and 43gn of H4350 and 140gn ELD from a 6.5 Creed at 300yds. 42gn showed almost no vertical while higher charges did even though they landed in nearly the same spot. I then shot 3 groups of 5 at .010", .020", and .030" from the lands. 27-shots from start to finish and I have a load that is on it (.6MoA including the round that wandered right, ES of 11fps, and SD of 5fps) without chasing false leads from a single shot ladder.
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Looks ready to go to me. But what do I know? I keep asking for help.


"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
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