Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Help me select new scope for my son

My son is turning 10 this week, and for his birthday, I am getting him a his first centerfire rifle. He will need optics as well, but that is going to have to come, at least for the most part, from his savings, so something like Nightforce is out of the question.

He wanted a very flexible multi-use rifle, so that includes:
Hunting out to a future max of 450 yards (due to the ballistics of the round, he will be limited to this distance, but it will be years before he can reach this anyway)
A precision rifle course to learn to shoot to 1k+ (long term distance goal, trainer will be working to get him to 500 in the immediate)
Hunting at night with lights (gotta have good light gathering, probably a 50mm objective would be great, it will be that mounted high anyway no matter what)
Tactical rifle course (this will be achieved using a different optic)

I have the rifle sorted out and it's being finished this week (hopefully!).

But optics wise, for the first three requirements, I want the following:

Range of 4-15 ish at a minimum
Needs to have probably at least 75 MOA of adjustment to go with the 20 or 30 MOA base to make 1k+
Adjustments in MOA
Probably will need some holdover marks, but not sure on that, depends on how much adjustment it has
Second focal plane, don't want 1st
Zero stop
Prefer a 50mm if I can get it as light gathering is important
Would like illuminated, but on the fence as to whether it really is useful or whether it just blows out your targets, as I don't have any illuminated scopes personally.
These are the things I can remember at the moment, there may be a couple other needs here as well.

I have considered the Viper PST 4-16. It fits this pretty well, almost perfectly actually. My only issue with it is that it is quite soft at top magnifications. I have an HST 6-24 and it is the same. When we were at the store looking through and trying other optics, the PST definitely was noticeably softer. And when I compare my HST to some of my other optics, at top mag, it is definitely softer. I noticed the same on a friends 6-24 pst.

Leupold VX3i, looks great and great on paper, price is a bit high. But there is no zero stop, and one cannot be added. That's not going to do. Same with all the Leupolds until you get into the 'Mark' series, and that is just a bridge too far cost wise.

Nikon, we have a Prostaff 5. I actually like it under regular conditions. It is also reasonably bright etc. But it flares TERRIBLY, we have been hunting and if the sun is in the right position, top mags are unusable, you have to really dial it down to see anything, which really caused us some problems. Surprising, considering Nikon SLR lenses handle flare very well, so they know how to resolve this. Also, the Prostaff 5 adjustments are not very repeatable, at least on ours. I know they have they new Prostaff 7 with more adjustment, and a zero stop etc., but that flare problem has really turned me off.

Considering those requirements, if you have any suggestions for brands/models I should look at, please let me know. I have run out of ideas, so I am hoping someone can suggest a model I have overlooked.

Thanks!

catorres1,

I don't want to pop anyone's bubble but a 50 does not guarantee good low light. My Bushnell 4200 4-16X40 matches my Swarovski zx5 5-25X52 in low light on deer antlers as the sun sets. There are some 3-15X's you might look into. Make sure you can return what you don't love.

Curious what cartridge you're using that needs 100MOA adjustment to make hits at 1000 yards?

If your Swarovski sucks so bad, quit talking about it or just sell it to me. I already have too many of those worthless Swarovskis to get rid of and now that everyone knows how bad they are, I can't sell mine. Send me a PM of how much you want for that Swarovski and I will buy it and you can quit running it down. Why on earth would you keep something you dislike so much?

catorres1,

Your requirements seem a bit advanced for a 10 year old not shooting past 450 yards. Just for the sake of consideration;

There are a couple of Burris scopes that are for sale here on the Campfire for under $150.00 that would be a great place to start a 10 year old boy out with. When he gets older and more discriminating, he could change to anything that he decides he likes better, and in the meantime, he could be using a good scope and not care who made it...

Ringman, I have absolutely no idea how your eyes operate and I by no means am trying to start an argument, but you have to be the only person in this world to have those results. The elite series are good scopes but NONE are close optically to any of the swaros I've owned. The Z3's Ive owned were better than any of the 4200's I've owned. Z5 even better. I read this stuff you post on here and I'm always questioning your motives.

gunchamp,

When purchased my first Swarovski z5 5-25X52 I was so excited to be able to afford such a fine piece of glass. I already had a Nightforce 12-42X56 and a Bushnell 6500 4 1/2-30X50. When I used leaves and twigs about 150 yards away to compare my Bushnell and Nightforce and thought the glass was about the same. When the Swarovski arrived I made a line chart with lines and spaces about 1/4" wide. I figured the z5 would smoke the other two. That's not what happened.

When compared on the line chart I started at 202 yards. I randomly picked up the 6500 and adjusted it until I could see the lines and spaces: 4 1/2X. I then picked up the z5 and adjusted it. I was amazed it needed 5 1/2X. I fiddled with it again and arrived at the same setting. Fast forward an hour and a half later.... At 521 yards the Nightforce was still on 12X. The 6500 needed 15 1/2X while my new heart break needed 16 1/2X. I have a range friend who has several high dollar scopes. He concluded after comparing his Swarovski with my Bushnell the Bushnell has better glass.

I tried them in low light. I included the two Bushnell 4200 4-16X40's. They beat the 6500 and matched the z5. None were even close to the Nightforce. I had my son-in-law compare them without telling him my results. He came up with the same conclusions. The only difference was, I guess since he is younger, the magnification settings were lower for him. My gunsmith noticed the same thing. He added, "This Nightforce has the best glass of any scope I ever looked through." A friend who used to be a gunsmith could not tell any difference in any of the scopes.

I returned the z5 for a refund and ordered another. It was worse than the first and no better than the 6500 in low light. A friend bought it on the spot. I ordered another. It was exactly like the second. Again the same guy bought it on the spot. I ordered the forth one because they are so light and go to 25X. It was maybe better than the first one so I kept it for two or three years. During those two or three years it went back to customer service at least twice and maybe three times. Twice it needed a new erector. When it arrived, I sold it.

My motive for posting this experience it to inform others looking at scopes. They need to be aware you don't get what you pay for, you get what you shop for.

I would agree with Shrap 100%.

I'm with Shrap too. Besides, what is this rig going to weigh or are you getting him a gun bearer to go with it?
Geez, when I turned 10 I was damned happy to get an iron sighted 30-30.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Shrap is a heap smarter than he looks...

DF

That's exactly what I was thinking. A burris FFII with a ballistic plex reticle will get him to that range with most standard cartridges. I'm not understanding why the OP is overthinking this. However, I started out with an old sporterized m1917 HB 30-06 and an old simmons 3-9x40 scope. I was shooting out to 600 yards with no problems with that set-up when I was 14. I can't imagine a 10 year old worrying about such things as scope choice at that age... OP, Just let him shoot and enjoy it before you get him all frustrated with competitive type shooting at such an early age..

At 10 years of age, how does he know what he wants in a rifle? Or is this what his father "wants" him to have?

I would get him a good 22, a 4X scope,and teach how to hunt first, before I turned him into a gear geek.

Get a 10 year old a 4-15X scope and he will be fiddling with the adjustment ring and have it set on 15X when his first deer walking out in front of him at 20 yards. A good 4X scope is a good place to start for a 10 year old, and that on a nice light, mild recoiling rifle.

To clarify, objective lens size determines exit pupil diameter, not the brightness of your image or light transmission. Take any optic and try to fry an ant with it like we did with a magnifying glass when we were kids. Instead of a point of light you'll see a circle anywhere from 2mm to 10mm depending on the optic. If it's a variable riflescope, zoom it in and out then observe how the circle gets bigger and smaller. The 50mm objective will make a bigger circle (biggest at low power) which is easier to get your eye behind. Oh, and don't believe anyone who tells you a 30mm tube allows more light than a one inch tube. Complete and utter BS. A larger tube gives more adjustment range, period.

OP you start by saying you can't pay for a nightforce but describe an optic for an advanced sniper/target shooter. Having put many youngsters behind their first rifle I agree with TnBigBore that your son needs a basic scope with relatively low mag. 4x, 2-7x, maybe 3-9. You do want quality so he's not frustrated by not being able to group well. You can get a nice Leupold for around 200 bucks, instill in him the pride of an American product for an American past time, and no matter how old he gets he'll look back at it with admiration of how nice that first rifle/scope was that you bought him.

If he likes it enough to do a precision rifle course when he's 16-18 great, split the cost with him so he can afford the tools for that when that happens.

Jeezus fhuqk...it's a gawwdamned Jerry Lewis Telethon,with Retard after fhuqking Retard...trying to out-STUPID the last Dumb Fhuqk's "efforts".

Good Equipment opens windows of opportunity and Schit Riggin' slams same shut. Not too tough to cypher who shoots and who don't,nor who the Brokedick Day Dreaming Turd Polishers are either.

Simply set the kid up for SUCCESS.

Firstly,copious erector travel has NO concessions. Hint.

Secondly,any/all erector travel below zero is 100% absolutely fhuqking USELESS. Hint.

Thirdly,it's very easy to arrange modest recoil/report,so that youngsters learn drop/drift along POA/POI intersections,with a smile on their face.

No schit...you STUPID fhuqks are lauding Burris,Simmons,Swaro's,Bushnell and schit Reupold glass,while obliviously quantifying your Stupidity by "endorsing" a fhuqking '06 as an "approach"?!? Then you frost that Dumbfhuqkery with Turdy-Turdy musings?!? I'm fhuqking crying,I'm laughing sooooooooooo fhuqking hard!!!!

Wow +P+++!!!

POA/POI is ALL about erector travel,it's accuracy,adjustment range,zero retention and ability to reliably repeat. Hint. Funnier than fhuqk,that a herd of Do NOTHING Dumbfhuqk Window Lickers were able to miss ALL of those glaring FACTS. Hint.

I sure as fhuqk wouldn't hand the kids anything that I'd not gun myself,though it seems to be a Drooling Dumbfhuqk Mainstay to do just that. Congratulations?!?

As a platform to learn GOOD habits upon,that will literally last a lifetime,my approach would be more than a touch different than The Paper Hat Brigade's Retard Roundup. Hint. Laffin'!

I'd be thinking boolits first,with a focus upon modest recoil,because getting the schit beat of you is fun at no age. Hint.

It is very easy to arrange meaningful BC's with modest recoil and the 223 is tough to whoop there,when twist,throating and COAL are given a thunk. Doubly so,as exceptional Factory Fodder arranging same literally abounds. Hint.

I hear through The Grapevine that a .435BC 75A-Max in a SAAMI 223 at 2850fps will do rather nice thangs,from spittin' distances to multiple zipcodes distant. Hardly a feat to grant it a sane zero and connect all dots,while simply granting said boolit opportunity to do it's thang...which it more than happily do. Hint.

A 200yd zero with same,will only eat 34.5Mils of erector travel at the 1700yd line. VERY easy to arrange that ala 10x MQ Fixed Fhuqker's erector alone,with 'Horn rings on an inclined rail or shimmed 2pc 1913 bases. The 2pc will mount lower,which is never a concession. Hint.

Establish zero,confirm dope and turn the kid loose. In less than 5 minutes,it'll be a breeze for him to pound 1000yd 2MOA steel in nice conditions and there ain't a kid on the fhuqking Planet,that'd trade that SATISFACTION,in order to "reap" the schit glass and schit rifles thus far cited by The Do NOTHING Gang and their INCREDIBLE Dumbfhuqkery. You STUPID Fhuqks had better read that again. Now one more time and feel free to use your Imagination and Pretend,to "convince" yourselves you've a fhuqking first clue,about any of this. Hint. Laffin'!

Now I'm staunchly anti-variable,mainly because less is more and I've had more variables than anyone I know. Hint.

With fixed glass comes all constants,doubly so when talking Mil/Mil for newbs. There is NOTHING to "convert","factor" or "change",for those who's Delusions have convinced themselves otherwise,in extrapolation to MOA. Hint.

A 3-way butt is nice on a Duffer's Rifle,because LOP can be coaxed as they grow. One could make good argument for a Chassis Bitch and M4 butt,to arrange that very thing,along with a DBM for COAL latitude and bolstered safety. The vertical grip fends felt recoil,aids driving the platform and none of them things are concessions either. Hint.

Hard for a kid to miss 500yd steel in nice conditions with a Skookum Annie 54,75MOA rail and 10x MQ. Hint.



A 3-way offers opportunities there too. Hint.



No thang for a Duffer to squirt a Krunchenticker to 1K++. Mk4 M3 6x here...the MQ being a vastly superior Mouse Trap. Google it. Hint.



Duffer Long Range MPAJ,stretching 1-8" 223AI 75A-Max at 3150fps. The rifle got MUCH better with a MQ. Hint.



Wind calling with 105A-Max at 3200fps ala Faux Ti 243AI 1-8". Rifle got MUCH better with a Fixed Fhuqker. Hint.



Fair to middlin' Duffer LR Rifle,1-7" SAAMI 22-250AI,3-way butt for LOP control and copious erector latitude for 1700yds++ with 75A-Max at 3200fps+.



One could slick up a S/S RAR Compact,dump it in a MDT LSS with a Magpul CTR and cheekriser,to allow max versatility for a multitude of Operators. The 8" RPM spout will do the 75A-Max proud,the trigger adjusts easily and copious COAL is reliably arranged ala MDT,AICS or AccurateMags. AM steel 5's are the default favorite,with MDT poly 10's a nice way to fly in a target rich environment. RAR spouts are easily swapped out at the house,for if/when the OEM spout is shot out. Win/win/win. Fhuqking hint.

Funnier than fhuqk that a 10yr old kid with 5 minute's of Instruction,would KNOW more than The No NOTHING Gang all bolted together and doing their best.

Bless your hearts.

Laffin'!

You've been led to water.

Thank me later.

Hint.

GOOD talk.

Not equaling an airgun to a centerfire, but my 6yo has no problem getting behind a 6x42MQ and a HW30s springer and banging reactive targets, the 4yo needs a little more cheek to find good viewpoint, but when she does she hits decently. The 22LR CZ452 American should work better for her, and will move the scope to it when time allows, but we get some backyard practice with the airgun.

I can't see a 6x42MQ being a wrong choice for the OP son, however I am not saying that it is the only one. I do agree with the other posters that the expectations seem to be above the normal 10yo with first rifle experience (I may be wrong and there may be extensive experience on the OP son).
Target reactivity seems to engage kids more than paper punching, and working on good basic skills with low recoil may be the ticket.
just curious what the selected rifle/cartridge is? as I will be in the same position in the new few years. Got a 243 lined up though.

My oldest is 8. His first scope will be a 4x Leupold. Once he learns to kill something reliably I'll let him spend his own money twisting turrets and reading drop charts taped to the stock.

Overheard on the mountain this year for elk, facing into the sun..."which way is the elk facing?" Trying to determine if the visible body was a front or a rear shoulder. Answer, "facing right". Shot fired, elk down.

My point is there are a lot of hunting skills a kid should learn before complicating [bleep].

v/r
Joel

I swear, if you paid $40,000,000.00 for a warehouse full of stupid, opened the door and Boxer was all that was in there, you would have gotten your money's worth...

This and what Shrapnel suggested up above.

Gentlemen, this is what no education, and habitual ingestion of narcotics and alcohol look like.

Well, it seems to be working for him. Useful info Boxer.

Ya' just need to to make shooting and hunting as fun as possible for youngsters.

That means a no pressure, fully supportive situation, with easy to master equipment, with tons of encouragement and laughs.

Otherwise they'll turn away from the sport, and their dad.

Good luck to the OP. Its an important phase in your life.

Probably why that when I build myself a new gun I test it first with a zero cant rail. Once I've got a good 100 yard zero I do the math, machine myself a custom rail that leaves a couple MOA cushion below zero.

Seen a few who listened to a "gunsmith" on the setup, had to still hold over the target by 10' with all the vertical dialed in to hit a target at 1000.

At least some of you can decipher what Boxer is saying, I can't.

One of my kids started out on a Weaver K 4X and the other a Fullfield II 2-7. I thought they were in high cotton with those scopes. When they were teenagers the scopes were upgraded to a VX-2 3-9 and an Elite 4200 3-9.

You are the only Fuquer I have ever ran into that has had this much bad luck with a swaro scope. I will give you credit, you are relentless with your axe grinding..

Don't take this personally, but I generally don't put much stock in optics reviews from an old man who wears coke bottle glasses. It's like my tubby ass giving running shoe reviews.

Back to your regularly scheduled axe grinding.

I would focus on an a generous eye-box/good relief for a young shooter.

Boxer,


a child's mind is capable of learning multiple languages by age 2.

Most folks try to dumb down there capabilities until inevitably the child is at some point forced to learn on there own.

My young one uses the same equipment I do. She's in the fourth grade and about a year younger than most her other classmates. She just received the presidential award for superior academic achievement. This award is a rare and great honor.I don't believe she's ever been smarter than any of the other children. I believe the difference is she's been allowed to use her mind to a greater degree thereby helping in development at a young age where the minds ability to learn is far greater than any other time in ones life.

In a round about way I'm saying I agree with you. Grin





Shod

Big Stick is hiding behind his other screen name, because of the 2 per day limit he was banned to.

Just get a 4.5-14 LR CDS and there you have a zero stop, as well as a dial custom built to your load. About 10 years ahead of what a 10 year old needs anyhow, but sure a good one to grow in to. Set the zero pointer on the windage dial, and your eyes become the zero stop. If you are going over one full revolution from zero on windage, something must be wrong, or you are way past hunting ranges anyway.

A new model LR 30mm tube CDS 4.5-14 can be had for under $475 to your door. No need for anything more, from what you describe.

Stop with the common sense approach. Might spread.

My grandfather bought me my first "real" (non-.22) rifle for my birthday when I was a pup. I remember the day he handed to me like it was yesterday.

It wasn't expensive--a Mossberg 800 chambered for .243 Win--but it was a good shooter from day one. My grandfather died when I was 16 (cancer) so I didn't have nearly as many years with him as I would have liked, but the years we had were good.

The scope was a plain Jane 4x Leupold. It was clear, solid, and forgiving for a young shooter. It also was an excellent teacher... like most fixed power scopes are. I still have the little .243 and drop a deer with it from time to time. Just carrying it brings back memories.

I like to give a kid some room to grow, and a chance to learn good habits. There's also something to be said for letting a kid have a chance to wish big. Give a 10-year-old a S&B 5-27 scope... what in the heck is he/she going to want at 11?

As for the OP, I suppose Vortex is probably what would work best. Good luck.

Range of 4-15 ish at a minimum
Needs to have probably at least 75 MOA of adjustment to go with the 20 or 30 MOA base to make 1k+
Adjustments in MOA
Probably will need some holdover marks, but not sure on that, depends on how much adjustment it has
Second focal plane, don't want 1st
Zero stop
Prefer a 50mm if I can get it as light gathering is important
Would like illuminated, but on the fence as to whether it really is useful or whether it just blows out your targets, as I don't have any illuminated scopes personally.
-----------------------------------------------

Guess this rules out the Redfield Revolution 2-7x33....

Boxer, what is your ammo of choice re: Annie 54 at 500 yards in nice conditions?

Get the kid an SWFA 6x42 with MilQuad reticle. From there, if he desires, he can move to the 10x in the same setup.

You'll not regret it.

Sponxx,

Physics is Physics and there is more correlation to Airgun come-ups,Rimfire come-ups and Centerfire come-ups...than the ENTIRE Do Nothing Gang could begin to fathom.

I've been makin' due here lately,with the Feinwerkbau 300S,patiently awaiting a large shipment of JSB Exacts to clear Customs and make their way to me ala AOA(slummin' various RWS and H&N flavors). Just got that confirmation,day before last and soon all thangs will be right in the World again.(grin)

With the RWS 27MOA unitized mount and a 10x Fixed Fhuqker,one can do some sensationally dastardly deeds,as per whim,in nice conditions. It'll arrange a .021 BC at 630fps(Maccari arctic springs and tune),which opens more than alotta windows of opportunity. I like a 25yd zero for the house and given the huge erector latitude of a Fixed Fhuqker,it's a breeze to engage at the 150yd line on the erector alone(100 MOA ele correction). 5 Mils of full value 10mph wind,transpires at the 65yd line and that's easy to subtend.



Sister ammo testing and knocking things back a smidge,at the same time. A tidy cluster and a Victim,in proximity.(grin)



The 6X MQ is of course without peer as a Utility Hammer and just last evening a pard was stretching one aboard his 18" #3 contoured 1-8" HawkHill no-turn 6BR Seven,fed ala CDI DBM eating AICS poly mags in an HS,with 105 Hornie HPBT's at 2700fps(Lever),with EGW 20MOA rail chopped in two/windowed and 'Horn rings with 40MOA dumped in 'em. Atmospherics were kind and the wind holdoff was a CH shy of 3 mils. It's a sneaky Little Bitch.

Anywhoo...for kids new to the game,the 10x resolves more detail on the windshield and will be a faster track,in regards to a Learning Curve. That due the fact,that it's gonna be more of an MPAJ approach,simply due the fact that Duffers haven't the requisite Oooooomph to hold hard and gun from the hindlegs. So there's no fret in eyebox/relief,as applied to hindleg Movers or the like.

KEY is to slow the roll,build a foundation of Physics and Facts,which'll allow them to reliably connect their own dots as per whim and on Day One,they will simply AMAZE themselves. Then there's NO stopping them.

I shot alotta rifles and alotta rounds yesterday and never did I stop to wish for a Burris,Simmons or Swaro,let alone a Turdy-Turdy or a '06...nor a boolit of less BC.

Hint.(grin)















joelk,

It's false Economy and a Dirty Fhuqking Trick on the kid,to hand them a POS Goat Fhuqk glass as an opening move.

Just because you are a DUMBfhuqk,doesn't mean they have to be.

Hint.















shrapnel,

I'll feign my GREAT "surprise",that you gave ALL things The Rifle an exceptionally wide berth. I "wonder" why that is?!?

Funnier than fhuqk,that even someone as fhuqking STUPID as you,knows better than to even try. Congratulations?!?

Bless your heart.

Laffin'!















elkchunternm,

Ain't it a right proper Dichotomy,that despite all your years of really TRYING,you still haven't attained a First Fhuqking Clue. Hint.

Here's to the perpetual hilarity,of you doing your BEST and "thinking" it is "something"...less a single inkling of how amazingly shy you are of the mark.

Laffin'!















'Raider,

Did your Imaginary Pretend Ignore quit "working" again?!?

I'll feign my "surprise",that besides being a CLUELESS Kchunt,you are also a Lying Piece Of Fhuqking Schit. Congratulations?!?

VERY good call,to Whine instead of trying to "talk" rifles,glass or boolits.

Hint.

Laffin'!















BARTRAM,

I can only make sense to folks,that HAVE sense.

Not that I don't enjoy Windowlickers obliviously quantifying their Do NOTHING Dumbfhuqkery.

Facts is handy and never not to their chagrin.

Hint.(grin)















'17,

It's often intellesting to throw a coupla dozen Skookum Rifles in the crummy and let kids pick/choose their favorites,to punish distant targets.

Annie 54's,223's(Krunchentickers) and 223AI's...are never not at the top of the heap,due the melding of Precision,Fun and modest recoil. A 6yr old can easily understand "dump 8 Mils in the erector and slide 1.5 Mils righthand wind".

Though Texans and Flatlanders can't.(grin)

Never been tough to cypher who shoots and who don't.















'MAG,

Inclination is easily arranged,ala numerous ways and all that matters...is that one is eeking the goodie outta da' platform.

The MQ essentially wears 36MOA on the windshield,which is very often more than alotta 1" parcels will have remaining on their erector,after a good zero.

Letting the boolit/chambering do as much work as inherently possible,only grants more opportunity and I cain't think of a single platform I have zero'd at the 100yd line. 22LR's are 50yds,Hummers are 125yds,K-Hornets are 150yds and then it goes to 300yds for a couple/few Ass Haulers. Key being to minimize midrange woe,while connecting all dots,in regards to inherent potential.

More than a few parcels rate "Beaver Dope" for in your face engagement distances and that is easy to slide on the glass,when it literally is staring at you.



It can be more than a touch handy,to know that with a 18" Rock 1-7" 223AI and 75A-Max at 3050fps ala 225yd zero,that it's a 3.7 Mil holdOVER to engage at the 10yd line,when threadin' needles.

Seen it.(grin)















cdb,

You AMAZINGLY Stupid Fhuqking Texans crack me up! Be SURE to cite "all" the words I've used that were "too big","too tricky" or "too Technical" for you and I'll happily rub your nose even further in your Incredible Dumbfhuqktitude. Hint.

Don't let the cat get your tongue,nor the couch your kchunt and PLEASE continue your Vagina Monologue and hilariously Stupid scope "savvy".

Bless your heart.

Laffin'!















WRO,

Do NOT slight how "real" Imagination and Pretend are,to The Do NOTHING Gang.

Hint.















'pwr,

Such things go without saying. Just sayin'.

You were almost brazen enough to cite a glass.

Almost.















Shodd,

Kids LOVE results and it is no feat to set them up with Good Riggin',that arranges same as a literal default.

Not that I don't enjoy the perpetual oblivious hilarity of Drooling Dumbfhuqks doing their BEST.

Laffin'!















Mi,

Oh how MAGNIFICENTLY you Whine...you AMAZINGLY Inept Clueless Fhuqk. Congratulations?!?

The 4.5-14x is a steaming POS in all configurations and CDS humor is only topped,with your Cough Silencer. You'd not know SFP from FFP,unless I was in the mood to tell you and I ain't. Laffin'!

4.5-14x wandering eye-relief,wandering zero and schit tracking will do no kid,NO "favors". Someone would have to "do" and "know" as "much" as you,to "think" otherwise. Hint.

If it helps your Imagination and it's Pretend,please "convince" yourself I've never suffered the fhuqking things. Laffin'!




Mebbe dangle some pics of the High Zoot Rifles you've "used" to make optics "determinations" and cite some "particulars" on how those Delusions are "generated". I ASSURE you,it will be funnier than fhuqk. Hint.

Few things fhuqking funnier than a wanderin' Reupold CDS 4.5-14x and here's to the Hilarity of your "endorsement" and all the "clout" your trembling fingers and quivering lips "garner".

You poor poor(literally) STUPID Fhuqk.

Wow +P++!

Laffin'!















Hatari,

You are in soooooooooo fhuqking far over your head,it really is a fhuqking SHAME,that you are devoid an inkling of the magnitude.

Congratulations?!?















'stead,

Are you bitching or bragging?!? Don't matter,because it's equally hilarious in both directions!

I reckon you'd dull the kid's knife too...just to pad the future for sharpness and poke holes in his new boots,for future "satisfactions" too.

Is there NO end to you DUMBFHUQKS Amazing Dumbfhuqkery?!?

Wow!















Fiddy,

I got incredibly LUCKY and stumbled onto a Local Lot of greatness,that makes ZERO fhuqking sense...but is simply sinister in it's abilities,in all my 54's.

Federal AE40gr solids at 1290fps,with a 50yd zero,eats but 25.6 Mils to the 500yd line and 10mph full value scoots it a trite 5.8 Mils. On my 54's,I break both drop and drift down into 10yd increments,for needle threadin' and have often found that to be handy(understatement).

Didja' score any of the DIP 75MOA Annie 54 extended 1913 rails,that I had Bob crank out? It made my 1808 EDS come alive and though I LOVE the McMillan T-hole Sillywets,these ergos are superior to me. I wish McMillan would dupe it in fixed furniture,as I'd love to have more than a few S/A 700's wearin' them,fed ala AICS footprint DBM's.



The Bulk Bitch Federal AE 40gr Solids are a perpetual Mind [bleep] and I even quit sortin' by headspace/weight...and just drive 'em Camp Run now. The SUPER Sleeper schit cracks me up!

Mighta scored me a Walther KK last night and hope to hear confirmation this afternoon.

22LR Long Range is an absolute RIOT,as you know.















DD,

I'm gonna try one of them.

Laffin'!

Kill it with Millett

I guess if anyone wants to listen to a degenerate Alaskan drunk, he has tons of "wisdom".

Or if you prefer that your guns don't look like ghetto vandalism, stay away.

Or, if you want to really see what a narcissist is, just reply to any thread he happens to be sober enough to read at the moment. He gets really pissed when people post logic, common sense, or actual experiences.

"WISDOM" is the ability to take in accurate information regardless the way it is delivered!

Food for THOUGHT! Or Not!

Your choice!



Shod

I'd say start him with a vx2 3-9 with CDS shoot without doing anything with the dial until he understand trajectory then develop the dialing after he understands how to shoot. Download the first couple of hundred rounds and work your way up to full power loads keeping the experience enjoyable.

When you are ready sell the Leupold for 90% of what you paid or better and buy the more sophisticated optic that will probably have several more years to develop even more capability. By then your 10 year old should be able to shoot and kill stuff,

Personally I wouldn't be thinking of 1000 yard targets and first hunting rifle / scope combinations but killing stuff at 450 will be within the beginners combo assuming you choose a modern caliber 7mm-08 comes to mind.

There are people whose praise makes me feel honored. Until now I'd never felt honored by someone's insults.

Boxer,

I've got no source for that ammo. I'll try some things I have in that velocity range, thanks.

I was late to Bob's 75 show, but got something similar.



Came up on a McMillan T-hole sillywet just a couple weeks back. Still having trouble with which Annie I'll marry it to.

You must've just beat me out on that KK.

Steelhead,

I'd be impressed if someone has mutherfhuqked Millet more than I...if only because I've actually suffered 'em.(grin)

Sandbagging cracks me up and always has. 'Course I'm well steeped in extry 39 extractors and ejectors too,as I seem to burn through 'em.



Bolted a set of 'em to an AMT S/S 10/22 Clone and they fhuqking puked in short order...as expected.















'Mi,

Perhaps you'll be "lucky" enough to be the FIRST Whining Kchunt who bitched herself happy?!? Wouldja' like the "odds" on that "accomplishment" now,or later? Congratulations?!?

PLEASE find me "mistaken"...it will be FUNNIER than fhuqk.

Hint.















Shodd,

Bein' afforded the luxury of not being forced to guess,prolly ain't "fair"...but it sure as fhuqk IS handy.

Funnier than fhuqk too,as it is to The Do NOTHING Gang's chagrin.(grin)















'needs,

CDS is a piece of fhuqking schit. Hint.

The Reupold 3-9x will NOT hold zero or track,literally by design. Hint.

A "Good Deal" on a piece of fhuqking schit,ain't much of a Sales Pitch. Hint.

A 7-08 in any/all configurations will ruin a 10yr old kid's chances,well before they had an opportunity to learn anything. Hint.

It'll come as a "surprise" only to you,that C-Note(18" Rock fluted #3 1-8" 223AI) was only too happy to jump into the MDT LSS,wearing a MilSpec buffer and a Rogers Superstock with Roger's OEM foam cheek. It mates well to the low 30mm Reupold DD's optical center,in relation to bore center. Hint.



Current lot of Lever' fueled 75 A-Max are 3090fps,fed ala DBM Smooch in both MDT poly 10's an AM steel 5's. Hint.

Due the Roger's butt,vertical grip(Hogue),miserly powder consumption(28.0grs),the felt recoil is likely shy of a 7-08...though I've never seen/shot a 7-08. Laffin'!

Ergo's are easily skewed to pinpoint an Operator's preference(s) and that in comb height,grip sizing and LOP. Hint.

The platform is a paltry 8.2 Mils to the 1000yd line from a sedate 225yd zero,which is a breeze upon the windshield alone. The 1500yd line is 21.5 Mils,which is barely even 1st fhuqking gear and I have it on good authority through The Rumor Mill,that seeing trace/impact in realtime,prolly ain't a concession either. Hint.

It seems that a 1-8" Mullerworks contour duped/shortened shank Montucky 6XC at 20" spittin' 105 Hornie HPBT's at 2870fps,might connect a coupla dots too. Hint.

From a 225yd zero,the 6x MQ's windshield alone grants 1075yds. The parcel only yielded 25.5 Mils of erector after the 225yd zero,which will only get it to the 1625yd line. Dump the windshield into the equation and 1875yds is arranged. Hint.



Recoil may or may not be in 7-08 Realm. Laffin'!

I "wonder" about a 1-8" Bart' barreled 270 flingin' 105's at 2525fps,nearly as much as I do a 20" 1-8" Brux barreled no-turn 6BR doin' same at 2700fps,with the Illuminatti and 6x MQ being a fhuqking given? Hint.




Bullets matter wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more than headstamps.

Hint.

I appreciate you doing your BEST,as that schit was fhuqking FUNNY!.

Wow +P+.















cdb,

Cheer up...you are a far GREATER Dumbfhuqk,than you "know". Congratulations?!?

Very GOOD call to Whine,instead of try sumptin' germane to the crux.

Bless your heart.

Laffin'!















Fiddy,

Rimfires can be fickle bitches and it's always best to listen to what they are trying to tell you. In a PERFECT World,the best BC,at the best speed and least SD/ES...would connect ALL the dots. Sadly,that ain't Rimfire Reality.(grin)

I'd much rather have 25,000rds+ of "purty good" ammo,than I would 63rds of World Class stuff. Shoot honestly,determine how/where/when doors close and push both your and the platform's abilities. Main thing is to actually shoot in tough atmospheric conditions,so one can learn to dope tough atmospheric conditions. Purty funny yesterday at the 400yd line with Goose Poop(Montucky 1-9" contour duped PN 7 Whizzum) in 30mph winds,as the holdoff was a paltry 1.8 Mils with 162 'Max. The 1808 EDS needed 14.4 Mils in like conditions. My .720" 18" Lothar Walther barreled 77/22 Hummer needed 18.3 Mils,with 17 V-Max at 2525fps. Whatta hoot!

Anyhow,there's MUCH to be said for the wares actually in hand and in use,as opposed to Theorized stuff that never comes to pass. Shooting/recording GOOD dope is half the fun and pissing pards off is the other.(grin)

I made it worth Bob's while on the 75MOA extended 1913 Annie 54 rails,as they are beyond EXCELLENT in all regards.



Your 25MOA rails will do great favors in regards to ring spacing,which muchly bolsters zero retention,repeats and tracking. I'd slam Burris XTR 'Horn rings on the bitches and bank their inherent 40MOA to pad your existing 25MOA,for a 65 MOA total. With a 10x MQ,that'll do some very nice thangs by default.

They don't repeat for schit,but are a great way to fly in a permanent application. Bob's rail's length,coupled with XTR Signature's surface area,is a buncha love handed to a scope.

[img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/924/k4oUVF.jpg[/img]

As to the Walther KK,I got a line in to the Seller and received pics,but someone else pulled the trigger first. Was hoping it was you,as I see you were sniffing upon the Herd of 54's that also interested me.(grin)

That KK was an exceptional deal,but I'm turning up the heat on my Annie 1827 Ninja Build and will be hating on most everything else,once it's a wrap.

Hell...I still know shooting is FUN.(grin)

I fixed it for my little buddy so everybody could cut through the necessary excess to get to his recommendation.

Have a good day little buddy.

Boxer,

Your command of the English language is only exceeded by your misfortune of doing your ancestral research and finding out you don't have family ties when you were discovered by Roto-Rooter...

Shrapnel, You are getting as good with answers as your pal Deflave!!!!!

"You've been led to water."

If you read between the lines, that's Stumpy telling us all how he cleans his rifles, and then lets the rust camo them...

And Shrap, if you haven't figured it out....

If Stumpy's post are somewhere legible, he didn't type them.. they were typed by his Lab feeling sorry for him again, or embarrassed Stumpy was still drunk and hung over at 11 AM...

it ain't easy being Schtick... you boys ought to lighten up on him... for someone with a 3rd grade education that only took him 10 years to get, and running on 3 or 4 functional brain cells, the little midget does a good job of "keep on keeping on"...

I still maintain, his wife and Dog qualify for Sainthood...

TheBitchingSniveler,

What were the "odds",that the best you can do is TRY to quote me? Congratulations?!?

You "lucky" kchunt.

Bless your heart,

Laffin'!















shrapnel,

My Engleesh Skeelz are without peer,if only to your chagrin. I'll feign my GREAT "surprise",that you yet again went wayyyyyyyyyyyy outta your way,to sidestep ALL things The Rifle and instead proclaim yet another Vagina Monologue,as oblivious quantification of your Drooling Do NOTHING Dumbfhuqkery. Congratulations?!?

Few things funnier,than a Coke Bottled Kchunt using her Imagination,to Pretend she has a first fhuqking clue! Looking forward to your next Whine and even more Excuses.

Bless your heart.

Laffin'!















'Hunter,

Your idea of "good",is hilariously fhuqking shy of the mark. Congratulations?!?

I getta kick outta you Flatlanding Whining Kchunts!

Bless your heart.

Laffin'!















Shefire,

Hutch shoots more than you.

Laffin'!

That's freaking funny.......and true.

Shefire,

Hutch shoots more than you.

Laffin'!

That may be Stumpy....

But on the other end, rumor has it that
you eat more dog food than Hutch....

And probably schidt all over the lawn a lot
more than Hutch...

and we ALL know he's smarter and cleaner than you are...

So its all relative...

Good luck on tomorrow Morning's Hangover there little Buddy...

Hopefully you won't wake up licking Hutch's nuts again...

that was pretty embarrassing for Hutch, at least according to my Brown Lab... he and Hutch are internet Buds...

So is my assumption true that Boxer wasn't born, that someone peed against a wall and he hatched?

Good morning little buddy. Um, I did quote you. Go back and look. I just used the opportunity to do a strike through for all of the extraneous and useless nonsense. You have to scroll to the end to see what I inserted as all that was necessary. C'mon little buddy, you're smarter and better than that. I hope I didn't hurt your feelings. Be well my friend.

'Raider,

You CLUELESS Lying Piece Of fhuqking Schit Texans,are a fhuqking hoot!

Don't "forget" that you "can't read this",due the "powers" of your Imaginary Pretend Ignore.

Laffin'!

Very GOOD call to refrain ALL things The Rifle and to Whine instead. What were the "odds"?!?















cdb,

Didn't mean to horn you up,so you could cock Talk some more...you "lucky" kchunt.

Looking forward to your next Whine and even more Excuses,as you feign a first fhuqking clue.

Laffin'!















TheBitchingSniveler,

Of course you quoted me...it's the ONLY move you've got. What the fhuqk else could a heel nipping Do NOTHING Kchunt "do"? Congratulations?!?

Laffin'!

Well, truth be told, that was the whole point of my post my friend.


Well, that was a little harsh, don't you think little buddy?


Thanks partner.

So am I translating this correctly via the Authentic Alaskan Trailer Park Drunk Gibberish, Stumpy recommends some sort of Tasco Knock Off? Don't they call those Simmons?

Its so much easier to understand when Hutch types his posts for him, so much more legible and proper English, instead of the combo of making up words as you go along, and not being able to type or spell worth a Schidt....and throw in not being sober on top of it.....

it ain't easy being Schtick....