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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Hunting in Austria a few years ago, I was offered the opportunity to help with some culling of red deer. They manage their populations very carefully, and needed to take about 30 deer off the property. What I found very odd at first was that I was told that I could shoot any spike bucks I saw or fawns, but no mature does or older bucks.
Growing up in Minnesota, getting a doe permit was a big deal. In many years, seeing a legal buck was a bit of a rarity. Getting a doe permit pretty much guaranteed you a deer. When filling a doe permit, we always tried to shoot the biggest doe we could find to get the most meat. These were often does with fawns.
When I asked them about shooting fawns and not mature does, it was kind of an “ah ha” moment for me. They told me that less than 50% of the fawns survive the winter, whereas mature does are the deer in the herd most likely to survive the winter. Further, shooting a mature doe with fawns made it much less likely that her fawns would survive as well. So by shooting a mature doe, you not only killed any fawns she was carrying, you also made it likely that her current fawns wouldn’t survive. The impact to taking that one mature doe could actually lead to the death of four or five deer. By shooting a fawn, you took one animal, and didn’t negatively impact the survival of any others. Leaving the mature does was the best insurance policy against a hard winter really damaging a herd.
I always thought that shooting fawns was not good deer management, as you often kill young bucks. But their reasoning seemed to make sense to me. Any thoughts on this? Thoughts on this? Yes. Clearly the Austrians have a better understanding of game population management than do the Minnesotans.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I posted this on P 1.
B. There is not enuff meat worth a deer tag AND not enuff meat worth the effort.
"Generally" when you kill a deer (fawn or not) your hunt is over for the day.
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How many tags do you get? We can take 6 and I'll put 2 on fawns if I get the opportunity. And Sean can verify this, but I am picky about cleaning game, I can whack a fawn mid morning, do a gutless method, and then a little surgery on the straps, and be out again for the afternoon. I don't 'age' fawn meat.
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Campfire Tracker
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Everyone who knows me knows that I will shoot fawns first and you'd about have put the gun to my head before I shoot a buck. The buck I shot last fall was constantly around my house. I have strong suspicions he was the big deer who broke down my electric fence and that's why I killed him. There was a huge buck hanging around too, but I never saw his tracks in my garden. He is twice the size of the 6 pointer I killed and twice the size of the doe that was bigger than the sixer. Not much of a rack, but a giant body. I have no need for that much hamburger.
I gave up killing big deer a long, long time ago because they are usually such poor eating. I don't need a big rack for anything, so I let them go by in the hope that someone who wants one gets them. I have killed does that were old and poor table fare. Does are much harder to judge age on without decent glass and a lot of time. I have one in the neighborhood that I'd be willing to bet is at least ten. She produces two fawns very year and has What I think s her daughter hanging with her who is also dropping two a year now. I'd like both of them gone, but won't shoot them for my table.
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Campfire Regular
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OP
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Yes. Clearly the Austrians have a better understanding of game population management than do the Minnesotans. Of that there is no question!
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Campfire Regular
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I posted this on P 1. B. There is not enuff meat worth a deer tag AND not enuff meat worth the effort. "Generally" when you kill a deer (fawn or not) your hunt is over for the day. -------------------------
Day over after you shoot a deer? Don't get that at all?
We've shot as many as 10 deer in a morning on a cull, gutted and skinned and hugn all 10 and went again after lunch. Just the wife and I.
I could write a book right here but I'll condense it AMAP. Jeff, others have responded since I posted and it 'seems' to me you still don't get it all. Notice I said, Generally in quotes. I have killed 2 deer in 1 day a few times and don't plan to again UNLESS the WX is right to leave them hang outside. I have been a member of 3 large Deer Camps (leases) at diff times and NONE of those camps have had 'COOLERS' for deer to hang. Around here it's @ 80 $ per deer to have them processed SO.... I ain't taking 10 deer to a processor. SOOOO.. 1 deer per day is ENUFF and I'm not the only 1 in that boat. IMO, I'd bet that MANY or MOST here are NOT in your situation > vice versa<< you are not in the same situation as most of US. Up here, about half the fawns never see their first birthday. Buck fawns, doe fawns, makes no difference. To maintain a population, shooting buck fawns does almost nothing to the year to year population. To reduce the population, start with does more than three years old. HEAR ! HEAR! Miles is absolutely correct. Killing buck fawn does NOTHING to reduce a deer herd. You MUST kill the 'manufacturer' aka DOES. I'll repeat and modify... Every buck fawn you kill is an ANTLERED buck YOU will never see/hunt/shoot. It makes NO sense. Jerry Maybe to people that get together and compare pecker sizes it makes no sense. To those of us that have access to lots of deer and don't have anything to prove with antlers, it makes perfect sense to shoot fawns, regardless of sex. If you really wanted the best deer meat, you would shoot them, too.
You did not "seen" anything, you "saw" it.
A "creek" has water in it, a "crick" is what you get in your neck.
Liberals with guns are nothing but hypocrites.
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Not that hard....just don't lead them as much.
Last edited by louiethedrifter; 05/19/16.
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Campfire Ranger
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grain per pound, this little behatch took more shots than most: (sippy cup shown for reference) ![[Linked Image]](http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n23/jlcpls/SDC10779.jpg) an hour later I had a few two gallon bags of meat, and a cup of milk...
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Joined: Jul 2011
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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grain per pound, this little behatch took more shots than most: (sippy cup shown for reference) an hour later I had a few two gallon bags of meat, and a cup of milk... Yeah, there was a ridiculous amount of killing that went into that one.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Campfire Member
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I call those suitcase deer. Just pick it up by the legs and carry it off like a suitcase.
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Campfire Outfitter
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One of our crew guys shot a small fawn and was dropping it off at the meat processors and told them to put the meat in a envelope and mail it to him
;-)
Other than that, How was the show Mrs. Lincoln?
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Joined: Jul 2011
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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One of our crew guys shot a small fawn and was dropping it off at the meat processors and told them to put the meat in a envelope and mail it to him
;-)
You have to use a processor?
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Campfire Tracker
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Thoughts on this?
Yes. Clearly the Austrians have a better understanding of game population management than do the Minnesotans.
MnDNR has it pretty well figured out. In the places where we have too many deer you can shoot all antlerless. In places where we don't have enough you get bucks only. Around Minneapolis/St Paul we have a zone in which it's legal to shoot an unlimited number of antlerless. Like Austria, but only one buck. If I remember right there was a couple zones down south with 5 deer antlerless and an early season on top of that. Some people here don't understand it so well though.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Years ago an acquaintance got transferred to TN. He sat down and figured out how many deer he could get in a year if he hunted rifle, archery, ML, etc and took the maximum number possible. It came to 75. I'm sure things have changed in the last 25 years but that was an impressive number.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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You could take over 300 in TN
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Campfire Tracker
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Population control is not an issue in the areas that I hunt and I don't shoot does or fawns....
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
Hunter S. Thompson
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Campfire Outfitter
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One of our crew guys shot a small fawn and was dropping it off at the meat processors and told them to put the meat in a envelope and mail it to him
;-)
You have to use a processor? Most of us choose too. This outfit does a good job and you can't Pay for the wrapping paper and time to do it yourself. Plus our deer our larger than the average southern deer dog.. ;-) And why not support the small town butcher shop that takes care of you?
Other than that, How was the show Mrs. Lincoln?
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Campfire Ranger
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Poconojack, Population control is not an issue in the areas that I hunt and I don't shoot does or fawns.... If population control was an issue in your area would you kill does or fawns?
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Joined: Oct 2002
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
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One of our crew guys shot a small fawn and was dropping it off at the meat processors and told them to put the meat in a envelope and mail it to him
;-)
You have to use a processor? Most of us choose too. This outfit does a good job and you can't Pay for the wrapping paper and time to do it yourself. Plus our deer our larger than the average southern deer dog.. ;-) And why not support the small town butcher shop that takes care of you? Whatever works for you. I rather enjoy the entire process.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 9,891
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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One of our crew guys shot a small fawn and was dropping it off at the meat processors and told them to put the meat in a envelope and mail it to him
;-)
You have to use a processor? Most of us choose too. This outfit does a good job and you can't Pay for the wrapping paper and time to do it yourself. Plus our deer our larger than the average southern deer dog.. ;-) And why not support the small town butcher shop that takes care of you? Whatever works for you. I rather enjoy the entire process. We learned to hate the process! My dad used to be a butcher and we had a commercial saw and grinder and I didn't mind cutting our own beef, but the deer was a different story. We had big third generation deer that we cut deer for because they were friends. These guys would pop illegal does and stopped coming to help process deer so we stopped doing it. My dad getting alzheimers really changed how we did things and it was nice to enjoy the time left with dad and not stress about cutting deer. Eventually I'll cut my deer again when I gear up and the cost gets too much.
Last edited by humdinger; 05/20/16.
Other than that, How was the show Mrs. Lincoln?
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Campfire Tracker
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Poconojack, Population control is not an issue in the areas that I hunt and I don't shoot does or fawns.... If population control was an issue in your area would you kill does or fawns? Ringman, Probably not. Just a personal decision, but I can't see myself not letting the baldies walk. In the unlikely event that population control ever became an issue, certain that there are other hunters willing to address it.... Ted
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
Hunter S. Thompson
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