Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Finn Aagaard On The 270 Win And 7x57

In the introduction to his piece on the 270, here's what Finn had to say on the decidedly non-gay, all-American 270 Win... from his book Hunting Rifles And Cartridges:

On my to do list is reading more stuff that Finn wrote. No game experience myself with a 7x57, but I am a long time 270 shooter and continue to be a fan of the cartridge.

Cool. I've had good results with both but would pick the 270 if I were only allowed one.

Pat, I'm a long-time fan of Aagaard. Besides being a man of considerable experience on game (perhaps more than any other modern writer), he was a keen, relatively unbiased observer who also wrote quite well. All in all, a rare combination.

Finn was also the first guy I recall hunting deer with a .223, with the then-new Trophy Bonded bullets. He wrote of it which I think opened more than a few people's eyes.

My experience is also that the .270 = bang flops

Premature. Sorry. Thanks

Thanks Brad, very interesting read.

Refreshing to read some common sense stuff on killing BG animals from someone who actually did a lot of it, rather than bounce numbers off a ballistic calculator.

Gun writers like Finn are few and far between these days.

Lot of respect for Finn. I always read his articles first. He shot heavy kicking rounds very well. He wasn't a sissy like JOC😜.

Holes in the goodies kill, speed speeds it up, mostly.

Great thread,ole Finn knew his stuff. I agree with him about the 270 with a 150 grain Partition. You probably have to step up to a 375 H and H or something equivalent to see an increase in actual killing power in the field. And even then it's only apparent on really big critters.

I tend to agree with rural doc.

And yet, what makes the .270 so much more universally capable than the .25-06?
I believe it to be true yet I can't put my finger on it.

A partner owns a .25-06 and is going elk hunting for the first time this fall. He stepped up to a .300wsm for this trip. I'm relying once again on my .270 with 150NP. Is it so much more capable than his .25-06 would have been with 120NP? I don't know what that answer is and its bugging me. It might be only in my brain.

Good article, I always liked reading his stuff.

I'm new to the 270 Win as of last year and am now wondering why I took so long to try it especially after seeing how well it worked for others I hunted with. Shot a black bear last spring and another 3 days ago both with the 160 gr Partition and was quite impressed, that bullet can seriously penetrate. Going to load up some 140 gr Sierra HPBT or 150 gr Ballistic Tips for deer this year and am expecting great things too.

Finally read the whole thing.

Thanks for putting it up.

Finn was always the first article I read. Miss his writing. It's sorely lacking in a great number of today's writers.

I like Finn's writing. Always have. Used to read his articles over and over. Remember one about how excellent the 270 was and him asking a hunter in Africa to try his 270 a little instead of the 375, and immediately the hunter started smoking animals rather than missing or wounding.

I've got a 270 WSM and 7x57 and I still have to talk myself out of getting a 270 Win and setting it up similar to Bobs lightweight 270 Win.

Gerry, your spot on, nothing super flashy but it works and works really well for hunters.

Thanks for posting the whole article. Interesting read! But I for one have never doubted the .270 Win. It does it's job very well.

Nothing Finn did was gay. Not even with a .270.

The 270 Win is one of the greatest big game rounds i have ever used and i haven't been without one since the early 70's and will die with one in my collection.

My uncle took two rifles on his two safaris to Africa (Angola & Mozambique) in the late 60s, two model 70s, one a 270, the other a 458. With the former he took everything, including two lion. He used the 458 for Buffalo and elephant. Oh, the 270 was stoked with old fashioned Silvertip.

A really good read.The .270 with the good bullets we see today is even better than ever.I have a cabinet full of hunting rifles and I nearly always reach for one of these Winnies. Elk, moose or whatever, it works for me.I am a sheep hunter first however and my confidence goes skyward when I have an opportunity and this needle gun in my hand.

Ive seen lots of game shot with both...as well as the 308, and 30-06. Ive always liked the 7x57 not because it was more effective...but because it has the least amount of recoil of the whole bunch...and by a fair margin.

As far as effectiveness...they are all about the same imho

Oh I'll have to go into my stack of HUNTING and find that one. Anyone know the year of that magazine?

Finn's article on the 270 was published in American Rifleman, May 1984, page 48.

The scans posted above are from a collection of his work, Hunting Rifles and Cartridges, published by the NRA in 1990, ISBN 0-935998-58-6. Finn was irritated with the compilation because of the number of editorial goofs. NRA went so far as to send out a 4-page notice of errata to all who purchased the book from the NRA store. Unfortunately, I've mislaid my copy of that notice.

--Bob

I'd imagine anyone with a lead pot, wheelweights a reasonable education of alloy and some fauna could proclaim the 30-30 a "lightning killer"....

I'm a fan of Finn as well. I can't remember how he....
Pronounced his last name ?

Jerry

jwall, since its Scandanavian, I think Aagaard is Ågård I would pronounce it sortuvas "Oh Gored"... I don't know if he did...

Bullshooter,
" NRA went so far as to send out a 4-page notice of errata to all who purchased the book from the NRA store. Unfortunately, I've mislaid my copy of that notice."

I recognized that article posted by "brad", I have that book and often pull it off the shelf and read an article or two.

I have the 4-page errata stuffed in my book. Would you like me to try and scan it into a pdf and email it?

Poole

The .270 win works and is the lower 48 & African PG best all-arounder; including Duiker to Moose to Eland. It will even take the largest Bears, Leopard, Lion (if it were still legal) and Hyenas.

I've always pronounced it "Ah-guard."

I wished I'd had the opportunity to visit with him more when he came in the shop on his visits to town. We always pronounced it A-Guard.

He was constantly in my old hunting Pards shop in Llano. They were pretty good friends.

Hi Joe, for me I'd sooner use a Short Action 7-08 than the "tweener" 7x57.

As far as recoil, I've only found the 7x57 less recoil-wise with 140's and lighter, but not by a "fair margin." With 160's, I find it a bit sharper than a 308 with a 165, and about the same as 270 with a 150. Ditto the 7-08.

But all of them kick noticeably less than the 30-06.

As far as game effectiveness, I've used them all on bull elk and at normal ranges haven't seen a difference with any of them, including the 7-08. I just like the bigger 270 engine. It does more with heavies than the smaller 7-08/7x57 engine.

But the differences are likely immaterial in the real world. But I will say a mushroomed 270/150 Partition is a beautiful thing!

That's how Finn pronounced it, with a little guttural undertone.

My copy of the book is coming apart, but so far various kinds of tape have kept it reasonably intact.

John, good to know. My Norwegian name is likely butchered as much as his!

No need or intent to disparage anyone, and I agree about the 270, but any cartridge whose product by dividing case capacity (water) by bore diameter that ranges between 200 to 250 is an a fairly efficient cartridge. I forget the reference but time has proved it true for me.

Add appropriate bullet (don't blame the cartridge here); apply to appropriate
game in the appropriate location (don't blame cartridge here again) and all's well.

The weeds are deep if you want to get into them but it's certainly not necessary.

I bought my first .270Win. in 1968, owned about a dozen since, all P-64-70s, except one FN-Husqy and one Husqy 4100. I currently have three P-64 Fwts, all in top end synthetics, in .270 and I load 150NPs for hunting exclusively.

It was for many years, my second favourite cartridge, after the superb .338WM and I still love it. However, I started monkeying with custom .280Rems. in 1981 and last year bought a .280AI in the Kimber MA, for some reason, I seem to prefer the .280s.

I have fine, custom 7x57s and a 7-08 and find all of these with good bullets about "ideal" for BC hunting as the rifles are light enough to carry in steep country and 150/160 NPts. seem to kill well.

Actually, unless one frequently practices with heavier rounds such as the .338 or 9.3s or .375s, all of which I own several examples of, I think that one is better off with a .270-150NPt. or the other rounds listed above as they are MUCH easier to shoot well on game.

At 6 weeks short of 70, with the next season being my 52nd. and decades of mountain work and recreation behind me, I can say that a LIGHTER rifle IS better and if you can't "do it" with a 7mm-150/160NPt, you probably wont with a bigger hammer.

There, IS some advantage to the .338WM, etc, but, ONLY when you can really shoot it and in some circumstances.

YMMV-JMHO.

Ok my mistake, Brad posted the source right off! It looked like a magazine page, not a book. The search moves to another bookshelf.

It just sort of hit me that the real life experience of the people who posted in this thread is really pretty amazing. I have most likely killed less elk than pretty much everyone in it. I only have six bulls if I remember correctly.

This is the only place that I know of that has that factor. Good site,good thread.

If I knew how to post a pdf scan I'd post Mr. Aagaard's article on the 7x57 that PJGunner sent me. Good stuff!

Back in the 80's and 90's when I was reading everything I could on elk hunting, the consensus was the mid/eastern hunter needed a more "powerful" rifle - ie. 7mmMag, 300 WM and the 338WM. The 30-06 was really tempting fate and the .270Win. was almost criminal!
Fast forward some 35 years and many here know that those magnum calibers, while perfectly fine, are not needed.
And this didn't just come about because of "better bullets". Looking back in my elk diary, I see 18 cows and 3 bulls taken with .270's, .308's and '06's. Most with "softer" bullets too. That is more than anecdotal and tells me that neither magnum cartridges nor premium bullets are necessary.
I guess the authors sold a lot of hardware for the industry though. Whether it was by design or not, I'll let it up to others to decide.

My next "elk cartridge" hunt will be with a 7x57 Supergrade.

Before we get carried away with the notion that Finn was a "little rifle" user, it would be well to remember that he did some of his own elk hunting here with a 300 Win Mag and a 338 Win Mag as well...dig hard enough through his writings and one will find this.

I am not one to dump on the various bigger rounds for elk hunting,as I used them successfully myself for years without encountering the boogeymen of flinching my shots into the next county.

As my 270 shooting rancher friend is fond of saying (he's killed 50-60 elk,including some very big bulls) the 270 kills them but the 300 Win Mag just flattens them..

I guess i would have to agree.

I've sorta seen the same. The 270 WSM did a good job, I like my 338 a touch more. The 7 MSM doesn't suck either. Guess I'll have to take a 100 to make a valid opinion though

I'm up for the challenge.

Brad,
Thanks for posting this cool stuff. When I was a lad, I used to read Jack O'conner's stories in Outdoor Life magazine. Those stories about the 7x57 in Africa made me want a 7x57 rifle. Fast forward to the late 70's, where I became a fan of Finn Aagard with his Brno Mauser in 7x57 with the " butter knife bolt handle" which furthered my longing for a 7x57 rifle.In 1984, I walked into my local gun store and found 3 Ruger M77 tang safety rifles in 7x57 that were gathering dust. I picked out the one with the best wood, laid down my hard earned $275, and walked out with my own 7x57. The only thing I've ever shot with it, is a 300lb. Russian boar with a 160 grain Speer Grand Slam at 2600fps. Needless to say, it did the job. It's the last rifle I would ever part with. Sorry for the rant.

Ron

Yes, sir. And do you ever get the impression that the ballistic calculator crowd at large couldn't work out a math problem with a pencil and paper?

I enjoyed the article. I think it is a nice balance of real world experience with supporting numbers. It has more numbers than most articles these days including both limited penetration comparison and load data. For whatever reason I just can't get interested in the 270 Win, but I don't question it's capability.

I have both and love both. Also have a 7mm08 that I love too.

Guys please forgive my oversight !!

Several of you answered my ? about Finn's last name.... I didn't say thanks.

Sorry.....and thank y'all.

Jerry

Bill Poole kind of nailed it how you pronounce it; Ouh Goured.

AA ( Ouh ) gaard ( Goured )... sorta

According to MD, this is how Finn pronounced his own name.

I'd have to agree with pretty much everything he said about the .270

What were the old silvertips like as a BG bullet?

BD, I never shot the original ST's, and perhaps someone else can confirm, but I've been told they're much stouter than today's Silvertips. Having said that, I've seen complete pass-through's with the 130's on cow elk from the 270.

I can't believe how many people base their experience on what someone else wrote about. Nothing against Finn, Jack and other iconic writers, but contemporary writers of today such as Barsness and Venturino, I read because we usually talk about this stuff all the time.

As to the 7X57 and 270, if you aren't strong enough to pull the bolt back far enough to use the longer action and carry that extra weight of another inch and a half of action, you might want to hit the stairmaster or forget that bottle of double malt scotch in your backpack...

I have no idea what any of that means.

And you may have missed that this is the GUNWRITERS forum, hence sharing an article, by a gunwriter, on the GUNWRITERS forum.

That comes as no surprise to anyone on the Campfire...

Once met a fellow in Germany with the same last name. He pronounced it as BP said. The 'd' was nearly silent though.

The Å or Aa, could be pronound as a long A, just a smidgen longer.

I guess many Norwegian/Americans just started using the A instead.

My last name which also contains an Å, would just sound strange using a single A.

I lost an old friend last year to cancer,he was in his 70s and was a devoted fan of the 270 with the original 130 Silvertip load. He had a stash of them and worried that they would run out before he left this world.

He only hunted one spot,a pipeline right of way that faced north where he could see about a quarter mile. He would kill a dandy buck just about every year in his stand,and said close or far the Silvertips were very quick killers. But he said they penetratred like crazy too. He had hogs on his lease and loved to line up two big ones and kill them with a single shot. He did this stunt many,many times. The original 130 grain Silvertip was a pretty tough bullet

I have a friend here in Montana who has a bunch of 130 Silvertips recovered from elk. His father bought 1000 in a single batch years ago, and all ended up in "perfect mushrooms."

But the original Silvertips were highly variable in performance, depending on when they were made. One of the very few instances I've witnessed of a bullet actually coming apart on a deer and failing to penetrate was a 150-grain Silvertip from a .30-06, and the buck was a forkhorn mule deer about 200 yards away. The bullet hit the shoulder joint and never made it through the ribs. Have other stories as well, and not just from that batch.

Jack O'Connor was a Silvertip fan. I've taken Moose, bear, deer, and turkey with them and they worked great. But that was in 30-30 and .32 Special.

Interesting but what is missing is that the 7x57 was designed to shoot a long, heavy (175 gr) cup and core bullet at moderate velocity to open up 2 calibers and penetrate forever. The 270 WCF was a hotrod for medium game using a 130 gr bullet that would open up quickly and kill w/o much penetration.

Either can be reworked to mirror the other with today's bullets and powders, given the limitations of twist issues.

So, today, outside of enjoying it, there is really no reason for a debate.

Just a guess, but I think Shrapnel was doing a mild dump on the short action lunacy by men who are generally a bit chubby. Happily all the shorties have died except the 300 WSM which does nothing a 300 WinMag won't except feed poorly and have hard to find ammo.

Own 3 7x57s (no.1), 2 270s (M70 & No.1) 1 7mm08 (Marlin)
and all work fine and with proper handloads are redundant.
7mm08 stainless is on the block as it's boringly perfect.

Always loved Finn with his 375 H&H wearing a K 2.5 in Weaver mounts which, we all "know" is a lousy rig.

Buzz off larry.

Using two screen names simultaneously, after being asked to leave on numerous occasions? Seems that's enough right there to answer his own questions.


Poor Larry Root, misunderstood Larry Root.... Why, why, why?

Northman,

Unfortunately, that's not how Finn pronounced his name. Maybe it was "modified" by years his family spent in Kenya and then Texas.

The additional vowels in the Scandinavian languages (Danish, Norwegian, and Swedish) are tough for Americans to hear and pronounce. I will never grasp the difference in the sound for the Danish words for "cheese" and "east." The first is "ost" and the second is "øst". I am afraid I ask "May I have some more east, please?"

Heaven help me if they invent a 27ø.

Jerry

The misses butted in here..

Ofcourse depending on the US dialect,

Å sounds like Awe
and
gård sounds like gored.


Awe - Gored


Very similar!



And, speaking of the Danes, they have a very strange language. Even though we used to vacation there every summer when I was younger, its still difficult to understand them. Very guttural language.

Language professors, estimate that the south and north won`t not understand each other in a 100 years.

Interesting on Aagaard's name pronunciation Northman, thanks for the further clarification.

My last name is a somewhat simpler Norwegian name than Finn's that still is only rarely pronounced correctly here, though I did find in Norway I actually pronounce it as they do.

Scandinavian languages are not simple!

And PS, it always cracked me up Finn refused to call the 6.5x55 a "Swede."

I'm with him on that

O K !

reason ?

Matters not to me.

Jerry

The 6.5x55 was not exclusively a Swedish development, much less designed for their Mauser actions.

Instead it was co-designed by a joint commission of what was then the United Kingdom of Norway and Sweden in 1891. Each country then chose their own rifle to fire the cartridge, a process that took about three years. The Norwegians chose the Krag-Jorgensen action, the last of three nations to do so after Denmark and the U.S., even though it was designed by a pair of Norwegians. The Swedes chose the 1894 Mauser action.

Thnx MD

I knew 'some' of that but not all of it. I appreciate the details.

Jerry

Back up for the 270 fans...

Especially now that it's become the .270 Relative Long, Skinny Magnum with the introduction of Reloder 26....

John,

Can you please update us on Reloder 26 in the 270?

thanks

Har!

Dober found me a lb of the stuff on his way back from MN... hard to find around here. Looking forward to trying it out.

Vern,

I've settled on a charge of 60.5 grains with the 150 Partition in my Model 70 (an O'Connor Commemorative Featherweight), slightly under the 60.8 grains Alliant lists as maximum with the Partition. Last week on a 70-degree day, it averaged 3013 fps with the chronograph 15 feet from the muzzle, and two 4-shot groups averaged a little over an inch.

Tagged for RL 26 info with the 270 Thanks

IIRC, JO'C wrote that he once took 2 deer with 1 shot when he shot through a buck and hit/killed the doe that was on the buck's off-side. Then, years later, he had to use 2 shots to take 1 animal, don't recall where or what, but that is how I remember it.

Here are the results from my chrono loads with RL-26 and 150gr Speer in my M70 fwt with a 22" barrel. So far so good, more testing to do.

Looks good with the R-26 which is running $30/lb. at my local shop. I probably won't switch with quite a bit of H4831SC on hand.