Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Budget single action revolver

What is a good value, lots of bang for the buck in a single action center fire revolver, colt ssa type clone? new or used ok. I will use it just for plinking mostly might even just load up cast bullets and trail boss for shooting steel and such.

RUGER ~

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Ruger black hawk

Hard to beat a Ruger, and used ones are around for decent prices.

Cimarron made by uberti. They shoot so well I have 2. One in 44 colt, and the other in 45 schofield. Major fun and major accuracy. Bought em for under 400 bucks each. Very impressed.

Ruger. Nothing else is even close in my opinion. Go with a New Vaquero if you want a Colt SAA type gun or a Blackhawk of some flavor if you prefer adjustable sights.

None of the aforementioned recommendations are Colt SAA clones. The Ruger New Vaquero is close in appearance but is not a clone. The Blackhawk looks similar to a Colt New Frontier, which is essentially a SAA with adjustable sights.

The best bang-for-your-buck SAA clone will be an Uberti. The best finished Uberti will be those imported by Cimarron, with those imported by Uberti themselves, a close second.

The Rugers are good but the new model grip and I don't get along. I probably need to handle a New Vaquero.

I swapped for an EAA Bounty Hunter last year and it's an OK single action based on the old Hawes Western Marshals, which were very good. Has nice case colors and a gawd-awful trigger, made bearable with a lot of work. Like all transfer bar SA's the dang trigger sits way forward of where it should on a Colt or clone.

I'm looking hard at the Cattleman New Model by Uberti, which has a firing pin block that looks like it'd save your bacon for at least one drop.

How about those EMF Dakotas. They haven't been around for a longtime, problably for good reason.

EMF Hartford, doesn't get any closer to Colt unless it is a Colt.

If Colt is required though, simply nothing else will do.

I know a guy who can re-blue those for ya

The EMF is no longer mine and wouldn't be worth the money to reblue anyway. It's lack of finish doesn't inhibit function. The Colt still bears about half the original nickel.

That's what I use mine for and went with Ruger. They work for the long run.

That colt looks fairly early by the cylinder bevel, what year is she?

The New Vaquero and the new Flat-tops have the old XR3 size grip like the original old model Blackhawks, which is virtually identical to the Colt SAA grip. Try one of them, you'll love it.

It's an 1882 Frontier Six Shooter with 2/3 panel left.

Thats a sweetheart you wish could talk.

Supposedly it came from Ossawatomie, Kansas, about fifty miles from us. I got it when it was 102 years old for $240. It's all matching with original grips. I've never had it lettered.

I like a letter. I ordered one for one of mine about 3 months ago. I expect it to arrive in another more or so. Anyways thats the rumor. I think a letter helps up the value.

I've got letters on several. They're always good, even if you know the story without them. I've even got a letter on a S&W.

^^^This! X 1000^^^

That is just begging to be sent to Doug Turnbull and his crew for a true restoration.

It would destroy its value and character. Some things need to be left the way they are. If I want to shoot one like it, I'll shoot the Cimarron.

If a person wants to restore one, there are plenty of mismatched guns with cut barrels and the like. Restoration of those can only help their value.

If I wanted a challenge...here is a cut gun. It's an original Smith and Wesson Model #3 single action in 44 Rimfire. That would be a good restoration.

Beretta makes almost an exact copy of the original Colt, except for a modern style hammer block.
My son has one and really likes it.

Beretta and Uberti are the same company.

OK, but my kids pistol say Beretta.

And it has transfer bar ignition, no?

I'd buy one of these.

http://www.ruger.com/products/newModelBlackhawkConvertible/specSheets/5240.html

I believe within the last couple days there was a .357 Blackhawk in the classifieds for around $325.

Since the Blackhawk came first, it's really the New Frontier that looks like a Blackhawk.



That's Cimarron's marketing. Cimarron has their own QC staff at the Uberti factory, that is all. Their guns are no different from those from any other importer and come off the same production line. Cimarron, Taylor's, Dixie Gun Works, EMF, Stoeger, all the same.



No, they are two completely different companies. Beretta just happens to own Uberti now.

Uberti made the Beretta single actions.

I bought a Colt clone in 44 Special and was surprised by the great balance, looks and handling. Paid $400. Love that revolver.

But you can't go wrong buying a Ruger. If you have a gun range available to you that allows you to shoot at their indoor range, do it with several of their revolvers. Then make your decision. Or shoot your buddy's revolvers.

The point I was making was that indeed, Uberti makes Beretta cowboy guns. I'm not an expert on the business configuration of the two companies, if there are two.

I'm not an expert either. I just know that after Aldo Uberti died, his family no longer wanted the administrative responsibility of running the company, so they sold it to Uberti. They still run day to day operations and little if anything changed at the Uberti factory.

Big difference between one company owning another, while maintaining two separate entities and two companies being one and the same.

Uberti "made" the single actions for Beretta. The guns have been out of production for a few years now.

Here is a picture of a Colt SAA and a Uberti, same caliber and barrel length.
Both shoot the same, feel the same and look pretty darn near alike.
But the Uberti is about $1000 cheaper.
Ruger is not a clone, a nice gun, but not anywear near a Colt.
If you are looking for a fun shooter, that looks and feels like a Colt SAA, then check out Uberti.

Ethan, tell me you don't shoot that one.

Not anymore.

Ethan is spot on with his statements about Cimarron.

I worked for Cimarron years ago, and remain friends with the owner, Mike Harvey. Mike does indeed pay more for better fit, finish, and wood. Not all models, because they do have entry level guns that are less expensive. But for the upper end guns, Cimarron gives a choice of a nicer product.

That's a fact I have personally witnessed.

BS, that's the marketing and where do you think I learned that all they have is their own QC staff at Uberti? Talk to the folks who own a bunch from all the various importers (myself included) and those who have taken factory tours and they will all tell you there's not a lick of difference between them. Because there isn't. Sorry but the idea that you're getting a better gun or upgraded wood from Cimarron is just false. My SAA replica with the best looking wood is from Taylor's.

"Entry level" and "high end" is a bit vague. They have their basic guns, which come off the line with every other from Taylor's, DGW, EMF and Stoeger. Then there are those that are tuned, which is done by a gunsmith stateside. Then there is the option for the US finish, the antique finish or nickel for any of their guns and that's all farmed out in the US. IMHO, customer service and the availability of those options is what sets Cimarron apart. Not the quality of their basic guns.

For the record, the only Uberti I've ever had to send back was a Cimarron and it was for fit/finish issues.

You can argue with someone that doesn't have firsthand knowledge about this very company, but you won't snowjob me on it. I know better.

Please continue on.

You might be able to snow someone who doesn't know any better but not me and not a lot of other folks who have more than a passing interest in these guns.

So tell us in what ways Cimarron's are better than those from Taylor's, EMF, Dixie Gun Works, Stoeger, etc.. If WE the consumer can't tell the difference, what difference does it make?

For the record, I've bought two new Cimarrons in the past six months. A Bisley with factory ivory (Persinger):



And an 1866 .44Spl.


Went to far as to have this Cimarron engraved and refinished by Turnbull.



Are they any better than the Uberti's I have from Dixie Gun Works like this Bisley? No.



Or this 1873? No.



Or this one from Taylor's? No. This .32-20 is my holster fitting mule and not only is it one of the slickest replicas I own but it has the nicest factory wood.

Here's a good example. The replacement for the roughest Uberti I ever got, a Cimarron 1860 Richards Type II, is nearly as rough as the gun it replaced. Above it is a 3rd Model Dragoon, one the best fit & finished Uberti's I've ever bought and from Dixie Gun Works.



Is this Schofield from Dixie Gun Works playing second fiddle to a Cimarron? Nope.

And none of these guns are any cheaper than a Cimarron.

Craig, while you may know something about these type of guns, you certainly don't know everything. If you think you do, then you are wrong again.

We can all post cherry picked pictures all day long. But, don't propose to know everything about everything.

I don't know everything about everything either...

You just happened to stumble into something that I DO know about. Firsthand.

Until you have shared a dinner table with the guy that owns Cimarron, and the Uberti family, including Maria before she started Uberti USA, and was involved in the family's dealings and contracts, and know what was discussed, visited the factory in Italy, and checked in the firearms from shipments to make sure the changes and additional requirements for fit and finish, then you don't really know, do you?

If you can show me something that proves your case, then I'm all ears. But, since I know you can't, I'll not worry about it.

Not sure where prices are.

I never said a single thing about prices.

I said that the owner of Cimarron pays more for fit, and finish. That's a fact.

I never presumed to know everything or claimed to but I do know this. What happens at the dinner table and with whom is irrelevant and I don't give a damn if you're Mike Harvey hisself. Until you have handled hordes of guns from ALL the various importers, compared them side by side, talked to numerous shooters and CAS competitors plus several successful gunwriters (who have also taken factory tours), taken all these guns apart, tuned them and shot them for 30yrs, you're just a salesman.

If after all that, I can't tell a difference and they can't tell a difference, what does it matter?

Can you quantify what those differences are, or should be?

The only thing one can say about Cimarron's guns is that their lettering is nicer than those from DGW or Stoeger. On par with Taylor's.



Conflicting statements. One would reasonably assume that if the importer is paying more, the consumer is paying more. Unless Mike is not in the business to make money.

Craig, it seems you are only here to be confrontational and impress people with your know-it-all attitude.

Carry on.

True. That, and to pimp another website and forum (his?), it would seem.

I'm sorry, do I need another 10,000 bullshit posts to be taken seriously? I'm here to talk about guns. No, I don't know it all or claim to. You won't find me in the rifle section or talking about benchrest or wingshooting or arguing about reloading rifle cartridges. You won't find me in a discussion about what camo pattern is the best. Where you'll find me is in a discussion about revolvers, particularly single actions, like this one. Or discussions about hunting with revolvers. With a little blackpowder action sprinkled on top. That's a long way from "all".

What, are you not used to being challenged? Do you expect everyone to accept your rhetoric without having to prove it?

So, one more time, if you can quantify the difference between a gun from Cimarron and one from all the rest, I'm all ears.



How am I doing that? Because I have a link in my sig? You think I sit here and argue with you dummies to promote my site? Seriously???

I once got in a fist fight in high school with an idiot that was trying to convince the world that those new (at the time) .22 Stingers were WAY more powerful than any .22 Magnum...

Even though I was right, and kicked his ass too..I still had to pay the fiddler.

I have learned to quit getting into confrontations with idiots since then. Especially when I know I'm right, and the other guy is obviously an idiot that wants nothing to do with the facts.

The statements I made about Cimarron go back a long ways.

Perhaps Mike can explain it better.

Depending on how old you are, you may not remember what those Italian firearms looked like before...

You all know you're arguing with a guy who dresses like a pirate right?

Well, the link is in your every post, is it not? Why else would you contradict yourself and only tout six guns?

W....T.....F.......?

Ask Blue, but I'm sure Craig is the guy with the great big pirates belt and cutlass

Ok, so you're comparing me to an idiot who didn't understand the difference between a .22Mag and a .22LR Stinger and you'll post these two responses but you won't actually address the issue at hand? I'll take that to mean that you can't answer the questions posed and were probably nothing but a salesman. I've posted my experience, with what firearms, along with pictures, commentary from gunwriters and fellow shooters who have all had the same experience and all you've provided is another marketing piece.

IME, the only folks who think Cimarron provides a better Uberti than any other importer are those who either don't own any or own so few that they have no frame of reference.



What the hell are you talking about???

You've been a trouble maker here ever since you landed on the Handguns forum. Rockinbar doesn't always agree with me, but he is at least honorable. I would take his word all day long every day over yours.

I know a guy who is a top cowboy action gunsmith and he will tell you Cimarron is the best. Taylor's pale in comparison.

Nobody takes you seriously because you are confrontational and have lost arguments to posters who have been here much longer than you have such as myself and Shrapnel. You have also been told to [bleep] off multiple times by such posters. Once again, I'd like to invite you to kiss my ass.

You see, I have no desire to participate in this sort of exchange. I want to talk about single actions and you dummies want to talk about anything but. Which seems to be the way everyone here reacts when their uninformed opinions are challenged.



No, you're taking his word for it because you're butthurt over me kicking your ass in the past and laughing every time JWP posts that pic of you. So I really couldn't care less what you think of my opinion. I think you're a blowhard who knows little but talks a lot.

Yeah, you take the word of used car salesmen too?

Any gunsmith who says "Taylor's pale in comparison" is either in bed with Cimarron or deluded.....or both. I'm still waiting for someone to actually point out the difference.



If I'm confrontational it's because this is the rudest, most bullshit-laden forum I've ever been on. If this place was moderated, even lightly, a lot of you would be gone. You sure as hell wouldn't have such lofty post counts because 99% of those posts are nonsense.

Lost arguments, seriously??? Shrapnel didn't even engage in an argument with me, just typical Campfire style of throwing insults and ducking away.

You see, engaging in an argument means exactly that, presenting your argument and responding to the other side. Telling someone to GFY does not "win" an argument. This ain't high school. I have presented my argument here, shared my experience. I have yet to see an actual retort, which is typical of this forum.

Your "arguments" consist of name-calling and declarations based on your own assertions of how knowledgeable you are, which nearly all of us disagree on. People call you names and make fun of you because you are a widely disliked [bleep].

Aside from the Cimarron rhetoric, about which you posted NOTHING but unfounded opinion, you posted at least three comments in this thread that were patently false. I refuted them with actual facts. Disliked or not, I must be at least more knowledgeable than you are. Does that sting?

I gave my opinion and I qualified it. You haven't even met me in the middle. Still nothing useful to add about Uberti replicas? Tell me again whose posts are nothing but personal crap? Oh the irony.

As an ex-Cimarron employee, Rockinbbar has added nothing but marketing propaganda. We'd hear the same from Mike Harvey himself, doesn't make it true.

If Cimarron's guns are markedly better than the rest, it 'should' be easy to prove. One can easily discern the differences between Pietta's, Uberti's, Colt's and USFA's guns.

I can't speak for others but I seldom formerly put somebody on Ignore. I simply skip your bloviating bs. I doubt many are still reading. Blow on.

What makes someone truly an idiot is that that person refuses to learn anything. Simply believing you are right, and ignoring what more experienced people tell you, and dismissing them as liars won't gain you anything but idiot status.

Mike wouldn't tell you anything. Nobody can. You have proven that.

Beyond that fact that Cimarron innovated a better fit, finish, and authentic markings, and went past that to engineer innovative new products with Uberti, you miss the fact that the industry changed because of that pickiness and attention to detail that was a partnership between Cimarron and Aldo Uberti.

Uberti makes guns for other brands too, so eventually the features Mike was paying extra for may have been picked up by others importing from Uberti. They pay extra too.

There isn't just "One Finish Grade" on everything. Uberti offers different levels of finish. Those that pay for that get it. Those that don't, don't.

Until Cimarron set the high mark on fit and finish, as well as innovative design details and accuracy to detail of Colt's, then the Italian replicas were crude at best.

Today there are differences in fit and finish in Cimarron's lineup. You pay more you get more.

Do other companies offer that? Some do.

But to deny that Cimarron was the company paired with Aldo Uberti that brought about those changes in the way guns were made, and the level of quality that was accepted is totally ignorant on your part. I have seen the differences in bluing, case colors, proofmarks, and the actual functional parts.

You ARE the dumbass kid that said the stingers were more powerful.

Congratulations on a level of ignorance that you don't see too often.

Ron White was right. You can't fix stupid.

And again, we have a lot of words exchanged and a lot of personal comments but not a single one describing that magical Cimarron difference. Not a single post to refute my comments on a technical level. Just insults and fluff.

I've been threatening to do a Uberti/Colt/USFA breakdown and comparison for years. Surely someone has done the same thing with a Cimarron to prove they're so much better than those from Taylor's or Dixie Gun Works.



I could say the same about you. How is a Cimarron employee "more experienced" with the guns of the other importers?



I am here to learn. I just don't buy propaganda from salesmen. Known too many of them for that to happen.



Never argued that, at all.



Doesn't that kinda support my point that there is no difference between them?



Then it should be easy to quantify.



Never argued this either.



As I already said and YOU of all people should know, there are the basic guns. Then there are the factory tuned guns, the US finish and the nickel finishes, which are all done stateside.



Apparently they all do and have for some time, because they're all the same.



I never denied that. Actually, I have said countless times that Uberti has greatly enhanced their products since I bought my first, 30yrs ago.



Yeah, who do you think I talked to when they got the ejector wrong on the 1860 Richards Type II?



I would expect no less from a Cimarron employee, in a discussion about the enhanced wonderfulness of Cimarron products. I guess all those other folks who've owned dozens of these guns, the writers who've reviewed dozens of these guns and the CAS shooters who put tens of thousands of rounds through these guns a year are also dumbasses? Can I have your name, so we can have you on official record as calling anyone who thinks Cimarron's guns are just like all the rest are dumbasses? The folks that own guns from all the importers might like to know this.

Mr. Copeland, if you think all I have handled is Cimarron firearms, you are gravely mistaken. If you think I'm a Cimarron employee, you are mistaken again. I worked for Mike for awhile.

I also did custom action jobs on rifles, revolvers and shotguns in the peak of the CAS & CMSA sports. Hundreds of them. All makes and models. I also was a national level competitor in both sports.

Although I can't match your level of self proclaimed expertness, I know what I know, and I know what I saw.

And it wasn't on some internet chatboard where egos like yours are quickly discredited for being as full of shat as they think they are smart.

You have proven your point SO well here. Carry on.

Okay, Barry Stewart, I can readily see and quantify the differences between Uberti's, Colt's and USFA's, inside and out but apparently I'm not smart enough to see the differences between Cimarron's, Taylor's, DGW's, EMF's and Stoeger's guns. So since I'm such a blathering fool and you're such a celebrated authority, you should have no problem whatsoever describing the differences you claim exist between the brands.

How many times do I have to ask?

Go argue with yourself.

You have already done away with any chance of learning something from your betters.

So basically, you're the expert (my better!) and everyone should believe what you say without you having to explain any further? Very interesting....

Sorry, you 'might' get away with that if you're Hamilton Bowen, Alex Hamilton or Jim Martin but nobody knows who the hell Barry Stewart is. That said, any of those men or a plethora of other gunsmiths would take that position. I'd expect any gunsmith worth his salt to explain EXACTLY what those differences were and why it mattered.

You are right.

I'm insignificant. I admit it.

So what does that make you, besides a troll?

At least once more, apparently.

Try bigger/bolder font, it may help. Or not.......

By my count, I've asked ten times now. Apparently, while both Ethan Edwards and Barry Stewart claim that Cimarron's are better and that I'm an idiot, neither can tell you why or in what way.

I own 40 single action revolvers, plus a handful of Italian rifles and a bunch of leverguns and can tell you exactly what the differences are between Colt, Uberti, Ruger, USFA, Pietta, Winchester (USA), Winchester (Miroku), Pedersoli, Armi-sport, Marlin, Henry and others. I can tell you that virtually ALL Italian replicas need action work, regardless of importer. I can tell you that virtually ALL Colt SAA's (and Rugers!) need action work. I can tell you that late model domestic USFA's are so well machined, fitted and finished that they do NOT need action work. I can tell you that the Colt SAA's of the last 10yrs are the best they've ever made. I ought to know, I'm the one that does the action work. I can also tell you there's no difference between the guns marketed by Cimarron, Taylor's, EMF, Dixie Gun Works or Stoeger (Uberti house brand). Up to this point, the ONLY folks I've ever heard say that Cimarrons were better, were those who didn't know any better and were just repeating what they'd heard.

I haven't owned any new Colt SAA's since the 70s nor half the others Craig mentioned, but damn near every single action revolver I've had through my hands since then has needed some kind of action work to make it fit to use. And in that regard the Rugers have no better than the Italian imports. They are built stronger if you anticipate the need to shoot heavy loads.

Regardless my next one will be a four and three-quarter inch Cattleman in 45 Colt. What little about it that does need improving I can easily handle myself.

I would be interested in hearing what makes one better than the other, especially since they are all made by The same manufacturer.

Just got one in SS, thanks for the suggestion!

Which one did you get? I got confused with all the background noise. I'm interested in getting a SA also. Been thinking a BH, but these others have me somewhat interested.

Lipsey's Blackhawk 5241, thinking I'll really like it!

Possibly a fact (unproven thus far), and if so, lends credence to your ad hominem attacks on the arguments of the others.

Just an opinion, and like a-s-s-holes, everyone has one and they all stink.

The problem with your posts is not your knowledge or accuracy, but that you intentionally set up an adversarial relationship, regardless of the topic (or posters) from the beginning of your first post on a subject to all your posts that follow. It seems your goal is not to spread knowledge but rather to fight and piss everyone off.

They all need action work to be fit to use? What's so bad with every single make and model that they can not be used for their intended purpose out of the box? I ask as an honest question, as I have limited SA experience. I have an old model Blackhawk that I bought used. It does just fine, but it is 40+ years old and I have no idea if anything has been done to it. I also have a new model single six I bought new and it seems to be acceptable as is, but maybe I am missing something.

That's a great question and it deserves a serious answer. I think it's all in what we expect from our sixguns. I expect to be able to take a SA revolver, regardless of caliber or sight configuration, and hit a coffee can every shot at 50 paces if I don't screw it up. For me this requires a grip that suits me, a decent trigger and perfect sight regulation. Your old Blackhawk was built with those things in mind. The New ones, not so much.

I've had mixed accuracy with NM Single Sixes, particularly those fitted with a Magnum cylinder. The Old Models I've owned were all tack drivers. At any rate I am glad you found a couple of good Rugers. They will give a lifetime of enjoyment.

That's been the case ever since he landed here on the Handguns page.

The issue here is that the Colt design, which dates back to the 1840's, is not really compatible with modern mass production. Coupled with the fact that Uberti is a mid-level manufacturer with very little hand-fitting, known to run their CNC machines too fast for smoothly finished parts and you have a revolver that needs a little professional help to keep from eating itself alive. The heavy factory springs exacerbate the problem. The difference being that Bill Ruger designed his guns FOR mass production. By contrast, USFA also used mostly CNC machinery to produce their guns but they ran them slow, changed their cutters often and the result is a finely crafted revolver that does not need an action job to survive.



Go back and read my first post in this thread. There is nothing confrontational about it, even though EE and I already had an adversarial relationship. Unlike you guys, I'm here to talk about guns and debate the message, not attack the messenger. If I am automatically defensive, you guys made me that way.

If I'm such an A-hole, why did you and 4ager join my forum???

I can't speak for Magnumdood, but here are my reasons for that:

1) I was looking for specific information and that site seemed to have it;
2) you weren't known to be such an [bleep] when I joined;
3) you don't act like this there.

2. Online, I've always been the way I am right now. I've been involved in more than one knockdown-dragout here so I don't know how you missed it before this one.

3. The members over there (or anywhere else I participate for that matter) don't act like they do here. Like I said before, 90% of the crap that goes on here wouldn't be tolerated elsewhere. This forum is a free for all and some folks think their lofty post count entitles them to never be questioned. Double E, who never debated this subject on a technical level, seems to think 37,000 posts makes him some sort of intellectual. I think the opposite is true.

And neither of you have been banned from the site where I pay the bills.

You were knocked down and dragged out, but here you seem to be again. Nothing but a trouble-making [bleep].

Because I wanted to see if you were the same abrasive, obnoxious a-s-shole there as you are over here. This forum is like it is because the owner of the forum for reasons known only to him, essentially lets it be a free-for-all. The only person he has imposed a penalty on is Little Larry from Alaska, and Larry violates the agreement they have whenever he feels like it. Larry is supposed to be limited to 2 posts every 24 hours. That's the only moderation I've seen on this board.

Ban me. I couldn't give a s-h-i-t less. I think if you look I was on your site once, certainly no more than twice, and I have no plans of returning, especially after this special conversation you've once again engaged all of us in.

I have belonged to a couple of essentially unmoderated forums in the last 7-8 years and I prefer them over all others. That and the good folks who post here are primary reasons I remain here.

Far better to have the occasional blood-letting than to live under the thumb of bliss-ninnies with a hall monitor complex. There is always the 'Ignore' feature for people who think every day is Halloween and they have their 'jackass on'. When enough people do that and a jackass is braying to an empty auditorium, they move on.

Still waiting on the resident expert to explain the difference between Cimarron and everybody else. Ignoring all the rest.

Kinda like a woman, keeping this going until getting the last word.
Tranny maybe?