Home Forums Reloading Bullet Casting lyman mold 358429

We start with:






But then we have:

Seating 358429 bullets the way Ron explained has been a successful method of loading that bullet since it was made. The method he outlined allows you to load the bullet in the different chamber lengths and different brass lengths by crimping it in the correct location which is determined by simple observation of the bullets position in the case relative to the over all chamber length. Some chambers allow it to be seated in the crimping groove, others do not depending on the brass used, but the bullet can be used in most all 38/357 chambered guns using either 38 or 357 magnum brass, or some combination of those components.

River Rider wanted to know if it could be used in his Blackhawk using 357 magnum brass and still be crimped in the crimp groove. The answer to that is yes. It can also be loaded in many other guns, but depending on the brass used, some may require it to be seated deeper in the case and crimped a little forward of the crimp groove. That is easily done as Ron explained and I have used the same method that he explained to do exactly that for half a century with no problems. Many others have done the same thing. It is well understood and commonly used by those who have loaded bullet 358429 in various guns.

I'm well versed in the seating and crimping of the 358429 for various guns and lengths of brass.

My post highlighted contradictions in the various parts of the discussion.

Reading over how I said it, I can see where you are coming from. Sorry it came out the way it did.

I shot hot loads using bullet 358429 loaded in 38 special cases in a model 28 and crimping the bullet in the crimp groove. It shot very well with no problems. I didn't have a chronograph back then, so I don't know the velocity on those loads. All I can say is they killed hogs graveyard dead.


Elmer Keith, Ed McGivern, and others used the #358429 bullet for long range shooting when the .357 magnum first came came out, but they loaded it with heavy powder charges behind that bullet in .38 Special cases according to what McGivern's book says. At that time, much experimentation was done with bullet seating depth, full-length magnum brass, trimmed magnum brass, and .38 Special cases. They all came to the same conclusion that the .38 Special case was just fine for .357 magnum loads using the 358429 bullet in the model 27 and 28 Smiths.

Today, many people have been taught guns are dangerous. Some shooters have beeen told reloading is dangerous and they should not do it. So when some try, they are overly cautious and want everything to be just so, or just like the loading manuals say. Nothing wrong with that, but more experienced shooters often interpolate data or change components and make educated guesses at how to compensate for those changes. People screamed bloody murder when I duplexed BPCR black powder loads in 45-70 and 40-65 Winchester, but I never had any problems doing it and didn't have to constantly clean my rifle like those who shot straight black powder did.

This ain't rocket science and if you use your head and common sense coupled with a little experience, things usually work out well. Get stupid and we'll see you on the 6 o'clock news.

this thread made me go out and look in the hideyhole. I did load a couple of boxes worth of the 358165 a few weeks ago, but they were mostly in 357magnum cases.
And i crimped to the first groove as looking down from the top as they were 38special.
I thought i had done some of the 357magnum ones with 358429, but mistake, i did them in 38special, running at about 850fps. I seated these in the crimp groove.
But talk about working your way through things, when i got through loading those 359429 in the 38special casings i couldn't get them in the cylinders, and i don't have a taper crimp for them, so,,, i pulled out the decapper pin and plug from the sizer die, and ran them with the bullet up a ways till i felt resistence, at which point i tried them in the cylinder for fit. I think i have found another way to taper crimp without buying a taper crimp.
I wish a had a ruger 357 blackhawk to try these guys in, my ex son in law is in tucson, don't think he would want to drive up here with his.
I have an aedequate supply of loaded ammo, but the fun is in trying different combinations/loads, weights etc, and different types of alloys. At the local gunstore yesterday a guy was telling me some people had been "testing" powdercoating, but failed it for coming off in the barrel.
no use contradicting, but that hasn't been my experience.
and the aussie's have been doing it for 20years.
i don't have any empty 357brass laying around, so i have got to shoot some to free it up, then i am going to put 358429 in some. In 38special tho, at 850fps i think it would be "aedequate" for most things. Part of this is experimentation for my daughters two inch ladysmith. I have some 200grainers for that if she ever gets around to firing them.

Such is the life of a dedicated loader.

Ron, you DA MAN!! That's using your head and being a good problem solving reloader. And on top of that, you shoot those pretty bullets. That is all part of this reloading business and why it is interesting and as much fun as shooting.

Creeker, I thought about you and that Timber Wolf splitter when I was out there this afternoon with steel wedges and a 12 pound sledge hammer splitting some well dried, hard oak. I sure could have used a gas powered hydraulic log splitter today, but my old armstrong splitter is all I had. Have you ever noticed how quick you can get over the enjoyment of swinging a 12 pound hammer after a couple of hours??

a LONG time ago right after i first got married carter had a moritorium on gas hookups. which left only electric. which was instaled in the house i was buying. which i couldn't afford the electric bill to stay warm in winter. so a little trailer, my truck, and saw and i murdered juniper/alligator pine. I hate to admit it, but we would work till the jug of jim beam ran out, then figured we had enough.
My mom got really mad at me one day when were 75year old companion went to open my truck door after one of these excursions and fell out. Still miss that fireplace.

I am coming up real soon on birthday number 74 and have long ago given up on the Jim Beam except for special occasions. Heck, it's all I can do to hit that dang steel splitting wedge with the sledge hammer while I'm sober and there is no way I could do it with the help of brother Jim.

My winter electric bill will run 400 to 500 dollars a month with only the heat pumps running. Firing up those stoves and the fire place reduces it to about 175 bucks a month and the house is drier and more comfortable too. I love it when we get snowed in up here on the mountain. I just put the coffee pot on the wood stove, fill it with wood, fire it up, and sit back and read a good book until the weather clears up.

Where I live it's the stinking July and August electric bills from air conditioning that kill my bank account. I love winter electric bills. (Cajun country, south of I-10.)

I feel your pain.

Having had surgery a few years back & the Dr. letting to know to watch what I pick up I'm using a maul/wedge these days to make the rounds smaller before loading them on the pickup.

Oh man!!!! Now THAT is the way to do it. First, there are no knots in the round. Second, the round is shorter, and third and most important, the round ain't all dried up and hard. Cut like that, it'll split pretty easy.

A dang big oak snapped off and fell and hit the north side of my house last October. The good news is that since it's the north side and up the mountain, there are no windows on that side. But it tore off the gutter and facia board but didn't put a hole through the roof decking. I got out there and cut it up and stacked it against several trees until I could get around to splitting it. It looked like this:







Then hunting season opened and I already had up my wood supply for the year, so I didn't need that oak I had stacked out there.

After hunting season closed, a friend started building a house and I went and helped him every day for about three months. Then I built a shed on the north wall of the house to store fire wood.

It looks like this now:




Then I put in a small garden. Then I rebuilt a stone wall where a cross tie wall used to be with steps through the middle of it to get up the mountain side. All of that was damaged when that tree fell. It looks like this now:




Now I am finally getting around to splitting that wood and it's dried and as hard as a brick and as Paul Harvey used to say, now you know the rest of the story.

But it gives an old coot something to do and keeps him outta trouble. Well sometimes it keeps him outta trouble anyway. Why is it so dang difficult for an old coot with a 4 wheel drive pick'in up truck and a 44 revolver to keep outta trouble? It just seems to follow me around and if I ever see that sumbitch named "Murphy," I am gonna shoot him.

this project has been going on about four years now. It was intended and probably will be the last hurrah now. Age and back issues.
But the decision was made to make a basement under a eventual slab and workroom. There was no way to get equipment in so it had to be done by hand.
it measures 7feet deep, 14ft long, and 8feet to the back.
dug by hand, and dirt removed in 5gallon buckets. We would fill and lift out about 30buckets to load in the truck to be moved and dumped. Still isn't completed to the above ground structure. Won't mention the amount of concrete need to do floor/walls, and a 4inch rebar reinforced top. It was extra special when the temp was pushing over 100degrees.

I feel your pain brother. Three years ago my wife wanted a "LITTLE SPOT" carved out so she could sometimes park her car there when she was in a hurry and didn't want to go in the garage and where she could store plants and other stuff and keep it out of the driveway parking pad area because on the mountain, there isn't a lot of room anyway.

So Dumb me, I got my pick and shovel and carved out a "little Spot." WELLLLLL what do you know? That isn't even big enough, so I got one of my guys to help me and we hacked this "LITTLE SPOT" out of the side of the mountain. Then I got two more of my guys to help us haul up stones from the stone yard and set them and build the retaining wall and steps up to the main level of the house. Photo's below. You can see what is left of that dern oak that snapped off and hit the house still sticking up at the top left of the first photo and top center of the second photo.







Three weeeks after I had finished the shed along the north side, a big limb fell out of that 90 foot tall pine standing there and knocked a hole in the clear PVC corrigated roofing pannels and just yesterday, I hauled out the ladder and climbed up there and replaced them only THIS TIME, I put THREE pannels one on top of the other one in case another limb falls out of that tree.


Like I say, if I ever see Murphy, I am gonna shoot him.

that rock makes me cringe, i have done that stuff too. I was snickering at some guy loading his truck at lowes yesterday. Loading 60lb bags of concrete premis rather than the 80pounders. I found out about that years ago.
I found some 357mag brass, which i sized and belled, currently in the tumbler.
I was having some trouble with one of the dies, and ended up digging out 4sets of 38/357 dies, where did they all come from? And found a taper crimp so that's good.
One of the sizer dies was kind of unusual. It had the normal pin to knowck the primer out and the button for the case mouth, but that was attached to rod that did the belling.
never had that where you could size, deprime, and bell in one step. I am going to put some of those 358429's together and i have a model 28 sitting there so i am going to see the length thing for sure.

If memory serves I had a set of RCBS dies for 45 ACP I think. Any who the sizing die only sized. The second die decapped & belled, the third seated & crimped. Again, if memory serves.

That's nice Bob. I can feel the "work" from here.

i loaded some of those 358429 bullets today. they are too long if crimping to the crimp grove for a 28. work fine in the k frames. I did crimp one to the front of the top driving band. and that measures 1.553 which is what the lyman no 49 says to crimp to in 357. over all length of the 357 mag again is 1.590.

Ron, is there any advantage in loading 358429 in a magnum case and crimping it on the driving band over loading it in a 38 special case and crimping it in the crimp groove? I tried it both ways in a model 28 and found none, but my experiments did result in me selling the model 28 and getting a model 19 so I didn't have to deal with the short cylinder issue. Well that and the sheriff made me get a model 19.

I shot 13 grains of 2400 behind the 358429 bullet in a 38 special case crimped in the crimp groove in the model 28 and never had any problem at all. The cases were not overly stressed, the primer pockets stayed tight, the case dimensions at the head were not enlarged, the accuracy was excellent, case extractions were easy and not sticky, so I never saw the need to use a magnum case and crimp on the driving band. I didn't have a chronograph back then, but I'd guess the velocity was somewhere around 1300 FPS.

To each his own, but since you are a very experienced reloader and shooter, I just wonder if there is a reason for you to do it and if there was something I missed when I was experimenting with it.

That is the beauty of reloading and the fun of doing it. You can try these things and see how it works. Most of the time that is exactly why I try some of this stuff. It's just plain old curiosity and for no other reason than wondering how a certain bullet mold design/ casting metal composition/bullet size/ lube used/powder/ charge weight/ primer brand/seating depth combination will work.

i did 12grains of 2400 and crimping in the crimp groove.per a reloading manual it showed a min. load of 9.7grains of 2400 for 879fpsm and max of 15.5grains of 2400 for 1242fps. that same book showed crimping at 1.553 which is at the top of the driving band.
i would have to look at the length of the barrel they were using. They do like those ten inch barrels for this stuff.
until i shoot it i am guessing at about 1000fps or so. I did one bullet with the same load crimping to the top of that band, gonna save it to go through the chrony. I would suspect that pressure would be lower seating the bullet to the top of the band. Which is where the chrony comes in, at 12grains i will be curious to see what it gets up to. I also loaded 12grains of 2400 in a 38special and crimped to the crimp groove. Which is close to duplicating your load.
I only have a little hesitation in using these in a 19, but it is not as stout as a 27/28. Matter of fact i have the load using the crimp groove in a two inch 19 right now. which should reduce pressure as the bullet is sticking out.
Long about way of saying i was thinking similar to your thinking i don't know a reason other than a 27/28 will take more abuse than the k frames. but even lyman's reloading manual showed crimping in the magnum to the top of the band and they made the mold and wrote the manual.
I have put thousands of rounds through a four inch 19 since the mid 70's but i bet less than a box of magnums.
I probably wont make many more for use in a magnum case, the 358561 bullet is only about ten grains different, and it impressed the snot out of me breaking that river rock i was shooting with it.
that 358156 has the two crimp grooves for use in either magnum or special casings, so i am pretty sure the guys fooling with the 38/44's were following similar thinking, hotrodding the special to get into magnum territory.
Interesting enough, some years back in talking to this FBI guy he showed me a ankle gun he was packing in 9mm, it was loaded with a round pushing a 115gr bullet at about 1300fps. I ended up buying some with warnings all over the box above saami specs. Shot some too with no bad things, but i am sure a steady diet would advance wear the gun.
and probably running up 38special into magnum territory in a non N frame would do the same thing in time.
another similar thing was i loaded some "skeeter" loads for 44special recently at I think it was 8.5grains of unique. Which is up there in current manuals. But he shot it. And i don't anticipate any problems using it.

I think this is pretty much it. . "so I never saw the need to use a magnum case and crimp on the driving band."