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Originally Posted by yukonphil
Originally Posted by Model70Guy
I'm sitting at 135 buffalo now, spread across 3 continents. Most were taken with a .458, but plenty were with the .375 and some with the .416, .450 and some 30 cals as well.

If there's a better buffalo bullet than the A-Frame I sure don't know what it is. The Barnes is OK, and a darn sight better than many but its no A-Frame. Solids suck in general.


ever try the woodleigh? just out of curiosity.



Just the Hydro solid on buffalo. Didn't like it, but it's probably fine for what solids are good for; almost nothing.

Used a pile of Woodleigh 180s in the 30-06 at moderate range, they are a very good bullet. Much prefer them to the TSX.



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Originally Posted by Model70Guy
Originally Posted by yukonphil
Originally Posted by Model70Guy
I'm sitting at 135 buffalo now, spread across 3 continents. Most were taken with a .458, but plenty were with the .375 and some with the .416, .450 and some 30 cals as well.

If there's a better buffalo bullet than the A-Frame I sure don't know what it is. The Barnes is OK, and a darn sight better than many but its no A-Frame. Solids suck in general.


ever try the woodleigh? just out of curiosity.



Just the Hydro solid on buffalo. Didn't like it, but it's probably fine for what solids are good for; almost nothing.

Used a pile of Woodleigh 180s in the 30-06 at moderate range, they are a very good bullet. Much prefer them to the TSX.



M70Guy: You seem to prefer the tougher heavy bonded bullets over the monos. How come?




The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Originally Posted by BobinNH
Originally Posted by Model70Guy
Originally Posted by yukonphil
Originally Posted by Model70Guy
I'm sitting at 135 buffalo now, spread across 3 continents. Most were taken with a .458, but plenty were with the .375 and some with the .416, .450 and some 30 cals as well.

If there's a better buffalo bullet than the A-Frame I sure don't know what it is. The Barnes is OK, and a darn sight better than many but its no A-Frame. Solids suck in general.


ever try the woodleigh? just out of curiosity.



Just the Hydro solid on buffalo. Didn't like it, but it's probably fine for what solids are good for; almost nothing.

Used a pile of Woodleigh 180s in the 30-06 at moderate range, they are a very good bullet. Much prefer them to the TSX.



M70Guy: You seem to prefer the tougher heavy bonded bullets over the monos. How come?


They hit visibly harder on everything, rip bigger wound channels and yet always seem to have enough penetration. Many mono hit animals don't even look hit.


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Thanks!




The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Some A-frames covered from water buffalo, which are considerably larger than the African. You'll notice the .375s have a distinctive double bulge from the higher velocity, while the .458s are straight sided from a 2200 fps launch. At Lott speed they also start the double bulge. The lone solid entered beside the tail and stopped in the bottom lip.

Bullet picking gets boring with A-Frames. They are boringly predictable, you've seen one you've seen them all.

[Linked Image]


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sounds and looks like a set of barnes X type bullets. Boringly the same results round after round after round.

That said, I've nothing against A frames either, just that I prefer the extra bit of insurance that a Barnes gives me.


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Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by EdM
Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
The 270 TSX has such a following, I guess the newer 250 TTSX is the step child.

To me, the 250 TTSX makes a lot of sense, better B.C. for a long shot and classic Barnes penetration.

I'd have to give it a serious look if going for buf. I've read some accounts claiming the 270 TSX is more accurate. I'm gonna try them both pretty soon and we'll see what my M-70 has to say about it.

DF


Huh?

B.C.'s: 250 TTSX is .424; 270 TSX is .326.

Barnes tops the 270 TSX at around 2,800+ fps. They don't currently have data for the 250 TTSX on their web site.

Surely a 250 will fly a bit faster than a 270 out of the same gun.

Higher velocity + higher B.C.'s = flatter trajectory. Both will penetrate and kill stuff.

Just saying.

DF


I get all that but I thought you (we?) were talking buffalo where a 100 yard shot is long?


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Originally Posted by BobinNH
Gunner that IS a beautiful old bull!

They are impressive animals.


Sure enough Bob, they have my undying respect. smile


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Originally Posted by EdM
Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by EdM
Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
The 270 TSX has such a following, I guess the newer 250 TTSX is the step child.

To me, the 250 TTSX makes a lot of sense, better B.C. for a long shot and classic Barnes penetration.

I'd have to give it a serious look if going for buf. I've read some accounts claiming the 270 TSX is more accurate. I'm gonna try them both pretty soon and we'll see what my M-70 has to say about it.

DF


Huh?

B.C.'s: 250 TTSX is .424; 270 TSX is .326.

Barnes tops the 270 TSX at around 2,800+ fps. They don't currently have data for the 250 TTSX on their web site.

Surely a 250 will fly a bit faster than a 270 out of the same gun.

Higher velocity + higher B.C.'s = flatter trajectory. Both will penetrate and kill stuff.

Just saying.

DF


I get all that but I thought you (we?) were talking buffalo where a 100 yard shot is long?

I understand.

I'm not a buf hunter, probably never will be.

Just Loony stuff, but one would have to show that the 270 TSX will out penetrate the 250 TTSX, and it may, to make a case for it over the 250. There must be a trade off somewhere between the extra few ft. per second and 20 extra grains of bullet.

If I was facing a buf, I may go with the 300 gr. A-Frame as suggested by another contributor. I've read some accounts on .375 300 gr. NPT performance to suggest that the A-Frame may be the best of that type bullet.

The 250 TTSX should be a good choice for all around use, not excluding a buf.

Just thinking out loud...

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Thanks DF and MD,

I have a pile of the 250's, but was reading Robertson and he was pretty high on the 350 for buff out of the 375. I'm thinking of a buff hunt and may have opportunity to go sooner than I thought I might. Just wondering if maybe I should try the heavy heavy. I suppose I'm thinking too hard and should just go with the 270 TSX or 300 A-Frame...just thinking aloud. Cool thread guys. I love this stuff. grin


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I'm sort of incapacitated right now so have been watching a LOT of African hunting videos for want of anything better to do.

Seems to me an awful lot of guys are using 375's and 416's to shoot EVERYTHING. I mean I don't think I've seen light rifle in use yet. It all seems like 375....375....375 LOL!




The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Here you go Bob,the smallest and largest I killed in Africa with a lowly .30/06 and 180 gr Nosler Partitions.

Steinbok.
[Linked Image]

Zebra.
[Linked Image]


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In 2002 I took a .30-06 (and a Remington 700 at that) with a 3-9x scope and 180-grain Partition handloads to South Africa, just because I wanted to demonstrate what a plain-vanilla combination like that would do. It worked fine, of course, including dropping a big kudu at around 350 yards.

Of course, at the last minute a bullet company asked me to fiueld-test a new one, so I had to take another rifle--but a spare can come in handy on a long trip. This time it did, because a hunting partner's rifles never did show up in Johannesburg until a week after we headed dome. But the .30-06 worked fine on a bunch of animals throughout the two-week safari.


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Ken/John: Well that seems like the sensible thing to do is bring a 30/06 and a 375/416.

I dont know who these guys are but I am seeing some funky stuff on there....375 RUM's, braked Weatherbys', all kinds of really big rifles but the 375 seems obviously dominant.

Looks like lots of 416 Remingtons too. Think they are Blasers.

They really mow stuff down, whatever they are shooting!

Interesting to see the mix of rifles, scopes etc. Nobody seems worried about PF/CRF LOL!

But I notice the PH rifles are invariably Mausers of some sort...at least what I am seeing.

Is it common to shoot long there? Most shots seem pretty moderate distance wise.

Last edited by BobinNH; 05/30/16.



The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Originally Posted by BobinNH

Seems to me an awful lot of guys are using 375's and 416's to shoot EVERYTHING. I mean I don't think I've seen light rifle in use yet. It all seems like 375....375....375 LOL!


There's a lot of sense in doing so. If you have multiple rifles along on your safari, you run the risk of being in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong rifle. There are plenty of true stories of folks out for a stroll for small antelope with a little .243 or so who ran into a cranky buffalo or lion and ended up dead. Ruark told a tale or two along those lines, IIRC, and Captstick's books are full of such yarns.

As my PH said, "If you simply plan to shoot everything with your 375 and 300 gr Swifts, you'll never have to worry about that sort of misadventure happening to you."

And it makes sense. I've killed everything from Texas coyotes, hogs and whitetails to Cape buffalo and kudu with my 375's and 300 gr A-frames. I read Jack O'Connor, and took his dictum to heart: the 375 H&H's 300 gr bullet exterior ballistics are almost identical to those of the .30-06 with 200 gr bullets. That means a 375 H&H is truly a 275-yard deer rifle that happens to be capable of killing truly big game like 2000-pound eland or moose at 200+ yards, yet also capable of anchoring dangerous game at close range. No switching out of rifles or ammo, just use the same rifle and same bullets for everything. How can you not love that?

Getting ready for my safari last summer I shot over 700 rounds of 375 H&H ammunition over a 2 month period, which gave me a sense of really solid familiarity with my rifle. There is no substitute for that sense of confidence when you're in the thick stuff with buffalo bulls and lions less than a 2-second charge away. I submit that you won't get that same sense of familiar ease if you've got to divide your range preparation among 3 or 4 different rifles. And then when you're in the bush with the "wrong" rifle in your hands, then what?

Just take your 375 and be done with the overthinking.



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My longest shot was about 350 yds on a Red Hartebeest using the woefully inadequate .30/06 and 180 gr Nosler Partitions. Loaded the 180's to the barely able to leave the barrel speed of 2750 fps from a 24" barrel.

[Linked Image]

The rest of the shots were around 150 yds or less.


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Originally Posted by DocRocket




Getting ready for my safari last summer I shot over 700 rounds of 375 H&H ammunition over a 2 month period, which gave me a sense of really solid familiarity with my rifle. There is no substitute for that sense of confidence when you're in the thick stuff .....
Just take your 375 and be done with the overthinking.




Doc: Im proud of you...I don't know who told you to do that, but hardly anyone ever does...... whistle

I shot over 600 rounds all offhand through my .375 before my buffalo hunt.
I remember thinking the only gun Ive ever had that I felt so familiar with was my Red Ryder ( no schitt...) when I was a kid.....
That level of confidence is indeed unbeatable, and was nice to have more than once on that trip. When it looked like things were about to get hairy there was no doubt about the target getting hit, hence little to no apprehension about the situation(s).


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Doc: That sure makes a ton of sense!




The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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I ran 400'ish 270 gr TSX's through my M70 375 H&H prepping for brown bear this year. Though with the relative "ease" of shooting off sticks (non-existent in Alaska) I expect to do the same with my 416 Rem M70 for next years buff in Zim. No question such shooting is humbling...


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Ed I guess the sticks require some practice. Have not tried them all that much.




The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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