Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting Rifle recommendation for a newbie that doesn't reload

The 195's were an "interesting" workup in both my 7 WSM's with 7828. Be careful, as in extra careful. When you find pressure, you'll most definitely know it.

Can't wait to play with the 6.5 147 ELD's in my 6.5 SAUM. Got the barrel early, and the stock gets here in a few days so it's time to get the reamer. Woohoo!

If factory ammo is the requirement and the OP is researching this for a LR noob, the 6.5 Creed would seem to me to be the obvious choice. Can't speak to how it'd work on elk at 600 yards, though there is a video of (I believe) Van Zwoll killing a bull cleanly at that range with a Creed.

...... and unless the OP's friend is the exception to the rule, this whole thread will fall on deaf ears and he'll buy a 300 WM anyway.

Not really hard to tell who can drive and who don't...

I suggest you hunt with a bow for a while. Learn some skills then apply same with a rifle. Shooting critters at extended ranges is about as exciting as phone sex. It may get the job done but you're missing out on the best part IMHO. It's hunting not shooting. Get closer and worry not about the hammer so much. Many have been taken with 30-30's in the hands of skilled HUNTERS. Stick has valid points on the physics but I have yet to see any pics of his including anything bigger than a black bear. He's so full of hot air he could blow a 6.5 Amax out his azz with better trajectory than his Montana Creed.

Said Creed load is an ELD X bullet with a.623 G1 BC. A proven long range HUNTING bullet.

Stickbow,
Not to put too fine a point on it, but you DO realize you are on a Long Range Hunting forum, right? Maybe your advice would be better given on the rimfire forum or general hunting forum.....

If you haven't seen pics of Stick's hunting quarry he bagged it has to be because you aren't paying attention. He posts tons of pics of the Sitka Blacktail deer and Black bears he kills, which is about all that is available to him on the island he lives on- besides a few crows and vermin.

Bob

And the OP asked about elk not Sitka or black bear. Perhaps a 7 mag with 162 GR ELD X loads would be more appropriate. And getting closer never hurt nothing
No slam on the Creed but for a "newbie who wants to hunt elk extra punch isn't a bad thing. Plus the fact that Creed ammo isn't everywhere. If he was rolling his own it's a different conversation. 7mm Mag in a big green box will kill elk all day even way out there and you can get it at a gas station.

Jordan,

I've some of the .670 BC ELD M 162's waiting for me at the house,because I couldn't stand not knowin'. Also some Nuzzler RDF 105's,Hornie 108 ELD M's and Hornie 75 ELD M's...just to see WTF. Also scored some Alpha 6.5 Creed Virginity(through Copper Creek) and it is supposed to be THE Schit. We'll see.

The M162's will be for Montucky 7 Whizzum's expressly,the RDF's will get shot round robin in a herd of Killer Spouts,for straight up R&D and aero form confirmations. Prolly won't whistle 'em through a 7" 5R Krunchenticker 243 SALAMI,until aero merit is proven elsewhere.

Finger on gunning the 75's in some Sinister Spouts too,in more than a coupla flavorings of headstamp,just to see WTF and how they fly. I figure after PN,Hart,Liljee,Brux,Bart' and 'Rock Test Drives,conclusions will be crystalline.

Will go a leetle more esoteric/boutique with the 108's and they's destined for a particular Flyweight 243 Aye-Eye and a Crazy Flyweight 6BR(no-turn). They'd haveta SERIOUSLY fhuqking impress,for the 105 Hornie BTHP to get called offa da' Field.

The Toyo 265 MT's hooked to the OME Dakkar stern tracking system and OME/Bilstein bow trackers are simply routinely AMAZING,in how they gripple stuff that others simply cain't begin to. It's like wearing corks while in your barefeet. No studs,as they ain't my jam.

While draggin' bags to start for the airport,I gots a leetle suplize. James Kessler does NOT fhuqk around and I had a new spout and various accoutrements arrive,that I didn't expect until several days later. Was curious to see what all this fuss was about with them slickery 147's and that there new Kreedmire. Laughing!



I wanted a 1-16",but he met me in the middle. Cain't win 'em all.(grin)



Everything was shiny where it were supposed to be and I've gots me a hunch,that I were pleasantly suplized.




Always wanted to try one of them MacaMillion stocks,to see what the fuss was there too. Fingered I could inlet it easily enough with a JackHammer,so I did. Been hearin' about them DeeBee Em's too. Laughing!



Put on the HSS Finishing Bit and all is well.



I reckon it ain't anywhere near "fair",to shoot wares that actually EXIST...but it is funnier than fhuqk to give The Do NOTHING Gang opportunity to Whine.

Bless their hearts.

Laughing!...................















rph',

What in your "experience",wouldja' deem as "positives" in regards to the Salvage Tree Hunnert Whizzum? Throat,twist or COAL? Congratulations?!?

They are whopping pieces of fhuqking schit,from any/all angles. Hint.

Bless your heart.

Laughing!.........................















rosco,

Holy Schit a 195 jump in a Weatherby,would impress Bob Beaman!

Tough way to do bidness,when TwistChow,ThroatChow or COALchow.

Happiness is connectin' all dots.................















JeffZero,

Factory Ammo will always do you the most favors,with your "pursuits". Congratulations?!?

Mebbe some day,it'll ship in velcro fastened parcels...so even someone as fhuqking STUPID as you could get inside. Don't "forget" to say sumptin' about scopes. Hint. Just sayin'.

Bless your heart.

Wow +P++!

Laughing!...............















Shefire,

Mebbe wax eloquent yet again,on the Sweet "Satisfactions" of plagiarizin' pics and how only someone as fhuqking STUPID as you,could miss 100% of the crux. Congratulations?!?

You poor poor(literally) STUPID Fhuqk.

Bless your heart.

Laughing!.................















'bow,

You Whining CLUELESS Fhuqk,the high pitched nasal whine of STUPIDITY escaping tour trembling lips,is fhuqking HILARIOUS. Congratulations?!?

The only thing you "shoot" is your mouth and Imagination. Do NOT "forget" you reserve the right to find me "mistaken",but pardon wellllllll in advance,FACTS precluding same. Hint. Laughing!

Like YOU have even "seen" a 162 ELD?!? You sad sack Day Dreaming CLUELESS Kchunt.

Bless your heart.

Laughing!.............















Bob,

I ain't even ever seened one of them Elkseses.(grin)

Don't go picking on 'bow...she's simply doing the BEST she can,with what incredibly fhuqking little she has to "work" with.

The Paper Hat Brigade NEVER disappoints in their sheer and utter DUMBFHUQKTITUDE.

Bless their hearts.

Laughing!...........................

Stick,

Off topic...

Do you still like the NuCanoe? And is yours the Classic? And if so, is the the 12' or 10'?

They started stocking them locally so I'm going to pull the trigger this spring.




Travis

There you are you LITTLE pariah. Thought we may have lost you to cirrhosis. Never seen a 162 ELD X? Hornady must be doing false advertising then as those be the little Crown Jewels sitting atop all my 280 AI cases.
I will give due credit to the little Creed and the Montana rifle. It isn't hard to combine a good cartridge with a good rifle and have good results. Where you severely lack is in reading comprehension. Facts given that the shooter is a newbie, doesn't handload and is going to chase elk, make me steer away from the Creed.
Long range hunting/shooting is a process or an evolution. New people make mistakes like losing or forgetting ammo for a hunt, lose interest in the game, misjudge distance and are hunting in areas where game can cross borders quickly.
A 7mm Remington Mag makes sense over the Creed IMO because if you leave ammo behind you can get decent ammo damn near anywhere. A 7 mag can be pedaled easier if the new shooter loses interest or wants to get money for a Creed. And comparing the two in like ammo lines (Hornady Precision Hunter) you have a higher BC bullet with more horsepower. A plus when you're shooting at a draft horse sized animal. Available platforms in 7 mag are as ubiquitous as an '06. Recoil is very tolerable for the performance with good bullets. It is not as well designed as the Creed but for THIS intended purpose it has advantages.

I think that you will like that Rem-age Criterion. Mine is flat awesome in .260. I am not a super-range guy, though, so I only shoot 129 Interlocks at deer!

Stick,
What was I thinking? I forget most of these characters haven't been around this forum as long as we have and don't understand the vagaries of posting "etiquette".

I was sure you had seen an elk or two, but didn't want to speak for you. You are doing just fine in that area by yourself- shame most here don't understand your english....

For the OP, if he is still around- if it were me, I would find a rifle you like the feel of and handles well to start with. Then find it in a cartridge you can tolerate, recoil wise and your idea of what it takes to kill elk efficiently. Some guys think it takes a 375 H&H minimum to kill elk and others feel a 25-06 is sufficient. As usual the truth falls somewhere in between. I've seen them killed with everything from 270's up to 416 Remington Mags and they all worked just fine when the bullet was in the right place. Personally, I carry a 338 WM and my son carries a 300 Weatherby. But, that doesn't make that the right cartridge for you.
The next thing is find ammo you can pick up fairly handy and in sufficient quantities that you can afford to shoot a lot of it. If you are going to shoot long range, you better be practicing an awful lot or you have no business taking long shots in the first place. Finding a handy place to shoot and lots of cheap ammo to practice with is the first step after acquiring a rifle/scope package.

This brings up the important point most people here are tiptoeing around. The reason most guys reload for this type of shooting is to control some of the variables and because it is a lot cheaper to shoot a lot of ammo if you handload it- which is partly what got me started loading 45 years ago. Can't remember the last time I shot a factory loaded round except to empty it out for the brass or .22 rounds. I'd reload those too if I could figure out how...
IOW- if you are serious about this hobby of long range shooting, think very seriously about taking up hand loading. Every guy needs a couple expensive hobbies just to tick off the better half...

Bob

'flave,

Am I gonna get teased again,about owning more boats,than The Paper Hat Brigade has IQ Points?!? You KNOW how fhuqking tender they are,regarding wares beyond their means and that...is mean. Laughing!

Wanted 10' and bought 12',because it were available and within 1000 miles of the house. They'll pack a purty good charge and reliably schlep more wares than The Paper Hat Brigade even fhuqking has. Seen it.





They'll happily pack a purty good charge,are amazingly stable,draw little in the way of requisite water depth,are tougher than fhuqk,it's no thang to throw over a shoulder and choogle with. They's well thunked and very versatile. Now The Paper Hat Brigade can say they've "seen" one of those too. Laughing!

Looks to me like a 162 A-Max exit,but all this stuff gets sooooooo confusing. Laughing!



Cain't remember what I paid...but nothing else will do,what they do....................
















DUMBow,

Cracked me the fhuqk up,that you couldn't even spell "due" correctly...you poor poor(literally) STUPID Fhuqk. Congratulations?!?

Lemme letcha' in on a leetle "secret",I miss NOTHING. Ever. Hint.

I get it,that you are doing the BEST you can,with what incredibly fhuqking little you have to work with and are at the mercy of your "means","abilities" and "experience"...which is THE most slippery of slopes. You "lucky" kchunt.

Pardon Facts,Physics and Reality,colliding with your Fantasy. Though I do VERY much enjoy your Drooling Dumbfhuqkery on the What If Chronicles and the EXCITING tales of forgetting everything,selling stuff you cain't afford and all the schit you are gonna ALMOST "do". Laughing!

The 7mmRemMag 162 ELD from Hornie Factory Ammo has 2275fps of impact,1860lbs of "energy" and 35" of drop from a 200yd zero at the 500yd line.

The Creed' 147 ELD Factory Fodder from same and sighted same,arrives the scene at 2092fps,has 1428lbs "energy" and drops 43 inches. PS and by the way,pardon the 147's BC(.697),trumping the 162's. Just sayin'. Hint. Laughing!

I'm rather at ease in "suffering" a "whopping" 182fps difference,432lbs of "energy" difference and 8" of drop difference at the 500yd line,to sideline a long action H&H based attempt and drive a 22-250 case insteada. Mainly because I shoot it all and am afforded the luxury,of not being forced to guess. Hint. Laughing!

I never can remember if I shoot 7mm bore sizing or not. So be SURE to "tell" me "more". Laughing!





Now obviously,nobody could cite your Retardation and CLUELESS Fhuqking Stupidity better than you can/do and I'd certainly not wanna steal that "thunder" from you. So I'll letcha' obliviously quantify those depths even further,by granting you even more slack on the rope and letting you "extoll" on how that Bad 'Em 'Em of your's is set up,in regards to the "advantages" your Imagination and Pretend are granting you the Delusions to Fabricate. I ohhhh sooooo fhuqking dare you,you Drooling DUMB Fhuqk. Subtle Hint. Hint. Laughing!

Mebbe muse the rifle,base/rings,glass,POA/POI arrangement(s). Use as much Imagination and Pretend as you dare,to make them thangs "real". LAUGHING!

Now for REALITY. A Montucky Creed' gunning over da' counter 147's and a 6x MQ,will simply fold schit in it's tracks,is a hoot to shoot in volume pursuits(we in da' bidness call it practice),is cheaper to feed,of far less noise/recoil,will reliably getcha' an extry round in the belly(if not two),slips atmospherics better and due the nature of it's mild mannerisms,will receive a whole 'lotta more yerks on the trigger. You gotta remember,some folks ACTUALLY shoot...though you "get" to read about it. Hint.

Anywhooo...spent primers remain THE Supreme Tutorial and handy/dandy rifles trump all. Facts and Physics are more than a touch handy to have in one's hip pocket and glass that is utterly foolproof in how it tracks/repeats,is THE foundation upon which all is assembled. Kudos on botching it all! Laughing!

Now you can say you've "seen" the blueprint. Laughing!



Never been tough to cypher who shoots and who don't.

Hint.

Just sayin'.

Bless your heart.

Laughing!............................















'hooper,

I bought it longer than I wanted (26"),just for the satisfaction of taking a SawzAll to it,multiple times over,in the interest of 147 ELD R&D. Looking to a 21" Finish Line and the 2000yd line will be a breeze with .025" rear base shift and 40MOA 'Horn's,coupled with a 10x MQ and a 200yd zero.

A rifle can be NO better than it's boolit and that constant trips most folks up.

Assuming 8",a 700 based 260 just simply begs for an AICS footprint DBM,stoked with binderless mags and 147 ELD Smooches. My 260AI loves 'em at 2900fps ala '17 and Lapooey 308 formed false shouldered Virgins.

The Creed' 147 Factory Fodder CRUSHES a 260 and 129's. Why? Boolits/boolits/boolits and roughly in that order.(grin)

129 InterRock BC's,bearing surface and mettle,are veddy veddy easily whooped.

Hint..........................















Bob,

I'm on the ropes...so don't go spookin' the hole.(grin)

A handy/dandy rifle shooting stratospheric BC's with minimal recoil,will teach nothing but GOOD habits,which will reliably garner GREAT results in the Field.

Distances that make The Do NOTHING Gang tremble,are fhuqking hilarious in their ease.

Perspective is never not intellesting and it ain't ever been tough to cypher who shoots and who don't.

Bless their hearts.

Laughing!.........................

Stick:

Post some more pics of the rifle parts above getting put together...would like to see how inletting finished up...would like to see how that rifle progressed!!

I am being serious...not messing with ya (this time).

Thanks, 'Stick.




Dave

300HAG,

Coffee just flew out my nose and my eyes are fhuqking waterin',after reading your version of a reply. Congratulations?!?

Fascinating Delusion,that you "think" your INCREDIBLE Dumbfhuqktitude fhuqks with anyone other than yourself! Hint.

I'm fhuqking cryin'...I'm laughing sooooooooooooo fhuqking hard!!!

Inletting a stock is really "difficult". Laughing!

Wow +P++!

Bless your heart.

Laughing!................















'flave,

They be right proper handy.

Sister often throws it over a shoulder,walks down the driveway and tosses it in The Milford,with Big Yella' in tow and paddles all over The World.

It's THE schnizzle for Duck Kchunting and I reckon a guy could prolly even feesh from it.(grin)

I am as "surprised" as you are,that DUMBow shut right the fhuqk up,after that first hand glimpse of her Retardation. Too bad too,as I reckon her heralded 'Em 'Em is REALLY rather sumptin' and done did alotta deeds!

Bless her heart.

Laughing!.................

Yeah yeah yeah...blah blah blah same OLD stuff, you need a new gig there Ace....just post the pics .....wanna see your "handy" work....it ought to be SPECIAL!!

Then post some tree pictures too...what the phhuck..keep on keepin' on....still stuck at 1 post a day I guess??

.........Lots of possibilities here depending on one's budget and other considerations as well.

For 600 yard (or maybe longer should the situation arise?) elk hunting, some rounds will be better than others in terms of downrange retained energys, flatter trajectories and reduced wind drifts. In choosing a round for long range work, downrange ballistic performance imo is first consideration.

Although a 308 you mention is capable of such long range work, I personally would prefer additional assurance where flatter trajectories, less wind drifts and retained downrange energys/velocities are concerned.

Of the three you mention and if given the choice, I would eliminate the 308 as well as the venerable 30/06. The 270 WSM and the 7 mag would make better choices.

If there are not too many budgetary concerns, and if your friend would like to have better levels or upper levels of assurance where downrange ballistics are concerned, then consider either a potent 6.5, a potent 270 or a potent 7mm. There are a few.

26 Nosler, 6.5/300 Wby, 270 WSM, 270 Wby, 7mm Rem Mag, 28 Nosler.

Factory ammo is available for all.

If you were to sit down and play around with a downrange ballistics calculator and do some long range/downrange trajectory and retained energy comparisons, the above six choices imo would be excellent...Without going with the more expensive 6.5/300 Wby Accumark, the 26 and 28 Nosler are both absolutely outstanding ballistically.

Of those six, the beltless 26 and 28 Nosler are my two favorites. And you don't need to buy the more expensive Nosler rifle to get either chambering. Browning chambers both and is the only other manufacturer to my knowledge that does so.

But as with anything where benefits are increased in certain areas, there are tradeoffs. If your friend is going to shoot a few hundred rounds per year at the range, the time line of barrel life from either a 6.5/300 Wby or the 26 Nosler will be reduced. Maybe a 1,000-1500 round life from either if properly cared for.

But on the flip side, if he fires 100 or so rounds a year the tube will last much longer.

Considerations,,,,,,,,considerations........Have fun.

I would recommend to him a Tikka CTR in 6.5CM. You can get him into a rifle that: a) is under $1000, easily; b) will be as accurate as or more than any other factory offering; c) fires one of the better dual purpose rounds available (dual purpose = hunting and long range shooting); d) is cost-effective, thus won't break the bank; e) has an excellent selection of factory fodder; and, f) is not too heavy to fill the dual purpose of both bench shooting long range and carrying as a hunting rifle. Good luck with your search.

Twig. My argument isn't with your choice of weapon system but with you being a complete dickhead. And one thing that is fact is that at this point in time Creed ammo isn't available everywhere. Hopefully that changes.

One can't help auto spell and you surely aren't one to cite rules of grammar.

Keep up the hard work twiggy and don't get chased off. It's always fun to see how much you give a chit about what everyone else thinks even though you say you have everything dicked.

6.5 Creedmore is the one that I would recommend. The main reason is you get custom rifle specs right off the shelf and factory ammo that works right along with it. From the start your friend will be looking at a savings(vs custom)of 5-6 hundred. That's more than enough to get started in reloading. I would tell him to spend his money there instead of high priced ammunition, he can have a lot more fun that way getting into long range. If he's on a really tight budget tell him to look at the Kimber Hunter. If he can spend more, make it a Montana.

I'm looking forward to getting one, Montucky it will be.

I don't know why y'all can't get along with Stick, he's always been good to me. It is good to know that if I start acting stupid he will straighten me out right away<grin>.