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OP
Campfire Regular
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I know this has probably been an old topic but I can never get "search" to work. Your cash... Winchester 70 featherweight or Kimber classic 84M. Any other suggestions? ty in adv
Why does a man who is 50 pounds overweight complain about a 10 pound rifle being too heavy? SCI Life Member 4**
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Winchester Featherweight,cause I like the featherweight style stock.
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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M70 with the old trigger.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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^^^^^^^What Bob said^^^^^^
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I know this has probably been an old topic but I can never get "search" to work. Your cash... Winchester 70 featherweight or Kimber classic 84M. Any other suggestions? ty in adv Assuming we're talking wood stocks... Kimber Classic, hands down. M70 Fwt's (unless we're talking a pre-64) make me throw up a little in my mouth. Especially the BACO ones.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Campfire Tracker
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I'm with Brad, and I have 6 Kimbers and 6 Winchesters.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I ignore M70 stocks. I buy my own.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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[
Kimber Classic, hands down.
M70 Fwt's (unless we're talking a pre-64) make me throw up a little in my mouth. Especially the BACO ones.
This is looking like a blondes/brunettes/redheads kinda thing. If somebody GAVE me a Kimber I couldn't get rid of it fast enough. And the newer FN Featherweights would be my pick of the Winchester litter. Love them.
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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As they come from the factory- Kimber without question, IMO.
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Campfire Tracker
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M70 with the old trigger. This.
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I own both and like both very much. I really like my Kimber Montana the best though. Nice and light weight, accurate, easy to use. Just wish it had a cheekpiece on the stock.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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[
Kimber Classic, hands down.
M70 Fwt's (unless we're talking a pre-64) make me throw up a little in my mouth. Especially the BACO ones.
This is looking like a blondes/brunettes/redheads kinda thing. If somebody GAVE me a Kimber I couldn't get rid of it fast enough. And the newer FN Featherweights would be my pick of the Winchester litter. Love them. Ingwe's statement makes me throw up a little in my mouth...
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Can't believe I'm going to write this,but,I agree with Ingwe.
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Had both. Still have the M70s.
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If you're NOT really interested in "featherweight" the the M70 is ok.
Stock style and checkering is California cathouse style, with coarse checkering.
If you want a LIGHT rifle with nice 20LPI checkering, a classic style stock, and have a few more bucks to spend then get the Kimber.
It'll be a pound lighter and a lot nicer.
FÜCK Jeff_O!
MAGA
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Can't believe I'm going to write this,but,I agree with Ingwe.
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Anyone pick up one of the new 84m hunters? How does it handle/point relative to the montana?
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I am no gun expert I just hunt with them. I had both and I still have 2 feather weights. I have 2 new winchester yet to hear of a trigger failure.
If there is any proof of a man in a hunt it is not whether he killed a deer or elk but how he hunted it.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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The M70 French Whorehouse stock is what makes me throw up in my mouth.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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The M70 French Whorehouse stock is what makes me throw up in my mouth. x2 the Fleur d' Gay checkering looks cheap. In a wood stocked rifle, I look elsewhere.
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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This deer doesn't look embarrassed at all with the "french whorehouse" stock.
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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This deer doesn't look embarrassed at all with the "french whorehouse" stock. Well, the deer is dead...
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Campfire Outfitter
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I own an 84M, a SS Classic Featherweight and a 70 EW. My tastes lean toward SS/synthetic and I'd take the EW over either. The fluted barrel of the EW helps reduce weight some without giving up the accuracy you lose with the pencil thin barrels of the other 2. It isn't quite as light as the 84, but will weigh the same as a FWT. And is more accurate with a wider range of loads. In my experience the thin barrels CAN be fairly accurate, but usually with only certain loads.
The Kimber would be my 2nd choice. Barrel contour is the same as the FWT, which isn't really light. The Kimber is. The FWT is the same weight as all other manufacturers standard weight rifle, but it comes with a pencil thin barrel.
Stock design is not that big of a deal to me. I can live with the FWT stock, or without it.
Most people don't really want the truth.
They just want constant reassurance that what they believe is the truth.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Yup,and killed with a "french whorehouse" stock.
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Yup,and killed with a "french whorehouse" stock. That the dead can't be embarrassed was the point...
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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The deer did see me before I killed it.
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Maybe he scoffed at the look of the French whorehouse stock, thinking that thing looks so frilly it won't hurt me...
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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EMBRACE YOUR INNER WHORE!
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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The deer was chuckling when I lowered the boom.
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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The living should be embarrassed for the dead... I believe Aristotle said that.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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The living should be embarrassed for the dead... I believe Aristotle said that. Never worried about what Aristotle said.
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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The living should be embarrassed for the dead... I believe Aristotle said that. Aristotle is dead. He never even got the chance to own a BACO Win 70 Featherweight! If he had...his whole philosophy would have changed......
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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The Kimbers have one up-ed the M70 if your going to carry the rifle. For hunting where I don't have to walk far my battery of M70's and mausers work well too. A rifle I got recently is now ready. It's a pre 64 70 with a 300 Win mag barrel. It wears a 3-9 Conquest now. On it's last trip to the range it put it's first shot from a cold barrel 1.5" to the right at 200 yds. The second confirming shot hit the bull 1.5" away! It's the rifle in the bottom of this picture.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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The Kimbers have one up-ed the M70 if your going to carry the rifle.
That settles it then. Don checked in....says the Kimber is the way to go. Get your order in on an M70!
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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The living should be embarrassed for the dead... I believe Aristotle said that. Aristotle is dead. He never even got the chance to own a BACO Win 70 Featherweight! If he had...his whole philosophy would have changed...... He would have hated the MOA trigger as well... This quote may infer: "The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." Aristotle....
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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"I reject your reality and substitute my own...."
Mythbusters
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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The Kimber without question.
Conduct is the best proof of character.
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Campfire Tracker
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What's wrong with French whores?
I am continually astounded at how quickly people make up their minds on little evidence or none at all. Jack O'Connor
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A very astute question!
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I prefer the 84. If I'm hankering for a full size m70 it'll be one of my pre 64s. Me no likey the curly checkering of the featherweights. Seems like I'd need Michael Jackson gloves to hunt with those. White ones with a big silver W.
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I much prefer the 70...though id get it restocked without question with a classically styled piece of walnut more in line with the super grade stock
-Joe-
The "Anti-Tactical"
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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EMBRACE YOUR INNER WHORE! I prefer when it embraces me.
George Associate Gypsy Order of Sleepless Knights ... That is when I carried you ...
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I have both, in fact I have a bunch of M70s, and they are similiar but still different.
The Kimber M84L is a much smaller action and thus a lighter gun. The trigger on the Kimber is very nice and can be adjusted easilly and the stock look BLOWS the M70s out of the water.
The M70 is a much larger action and build like a tank, although I doubt the Kimber has any weakness in that respect, The trigger is nice but not great like the old M70s trigger was. I like the Featherweight stock.
Bottom line is pick the one you prefer and you'll be happy.
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As always...the pre 64 M70 gets my vote.
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So if I buy a Winchester 70 I get a French Whore? Bout the only way I would buy one. Maybe until I see one I like for cheap in a caliber I want. Then Im jumping on that bandwagon.
I've always been different with one foot over the line.....
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I prefer the 84. If I'm hankering for a full size m70 it'll be one of my pre 64s. Me no likey the curly checkering of the featherweights. Seems like I'd need Michael Jackson gloves to hunt with those. White ones with a big silver W. I am no fan and buy after market stocks for almost any M70. But it's kinda funny to hear these criticism of the FW stock on here when the place runs amok with those silly McSwirleys in those ridiculous color blends. You gotta be a [bleep] just to order one of those things. What nightmares! Talk about gay stocks! LOL!
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I have found myself agreeing with Ingwe. It does give one pause and a double take on maybe I need to rethink this... But, a blind hog does occasionally find an acorn and a broken clock is right twice a day... DF
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Been thinking this over and came to a conclusion,Ingwe agrees with us!
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Been thinking this over and came to a conclusion,Ingwe agrees with us! I like the way you spun that... Sure you're not in politics... DF
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Postive!
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Campfire Tracker
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Been thinking this over and came to a conclusion,Ingwe agrees with us! He's old enough to have more than a few screws backing out of their holes....
I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle. I have yet to see anyone claim Leupold has never had to fix an optic. I know I have sent a few back. 2 MK 6s, a VX-6, and 3 VX-111s.
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I had my Mod70 Classic 270 converted to 375H&H, where it belongs.
I have a 260 84M and 30-06 84L.
Very happy.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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When the Kimber has fought a war or two,competed for decades in match shooting everywhere from local matches to Wimbledon, served as the backup in the world,served as backup rifle for some of the worlds best professional hunters,and taken every major BG trophy on every continent on the Globe several times over, I'll give it equal status with the Model 70 (which it unabashedly copies in anorexic form, which gets some people giddy). Until then, the Kimber is a Johnny Come Lately tourist grade. Nice....but....tourist grade. The M70 does not "belong" with the 270/30-06? Since when and says "who"? Internet jockeys? The M70 practically "made" those cartridges and many others. Always a good chuckle on here...
Last edited by BobinNH; 06/06/16.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Bob, do you really think the Portuguese-made M70 of today is the same as the USA made M70 of yester-year?
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Brad, I'll throw in another 2 cents. The M70 is assembled in Portugal, technically not made in Portugal....like many Brownings have been for years...including the Hi-Power and no one winces at them. IMHO the FN built Model 70s are as good or better than any model 70 ever built ( That oughta draw some ire! ) I did prefer the old trigger though.... There....that oughta get the mud in the puddle stirred back up....
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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But it's kinda funny to hear these criticism of the FW stock on here when the place runs amok with those silly McSwirleys in those ridiculous color blends. You gotta be a [bleep] just to order one of those things.
What nightmares! Talk about gay stocks! LOL!
Bob! My feelers are hurt! Is THAT the reason they call this the McFlame? I will fill out one of these...who shall I submit it too?
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Bob, do you really think the Portuguese-made M70 of today is the same as the USA made M70 of yester-year?
Brad no they stopped making M70's in 1964..... Which is what makes these conversations so difficult. But I will toss the Classic a bone. They ain't half bad if tuned up proper. But I beg off as soon as they pulled the old trigger. Dakota? Anyone? Actually though the new ones are supposed to have the most uniform receivers of them all. I could like them but the trigger is a turn off. I also wish they'd name them something else.
Last edited by BobinNH; 06/06/16.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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But it's kinda funny to hear these criticism of the FW stock on here when the place runs amok with those silly McSwirleys in those ridiculous color blends. You gotta be a [bleep] just to order one of those things.
What nightmares! Talk about gay stocks! LOL!
Bob! My feelers are hurt! Is THAT the reason they call this the McFlame? I will fill out one of these...who shall I submit it too? Laffin......
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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This one is pretty, and shoots decently. I've done nothing to it, not even check the bedding. This one is a Kim-Nor. It shoots very well... I do have a M70 Super Grade in 7mm mag, and it's a nice rifle, too. I think I like the M70's for bigger calibers, than the svelte little Kimbers...
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Campfire Tracker
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A few pictures of my one and only Kimber purchase. I didn't save any pictures of the action but it didn't fit any better. IMO, they suck. The rifle was returned to Kimber for a new stock. When returned the new stock looked a little better but they destroyed the metal finish doing it. It looked like someone tied a string to the barreled action and dragged it around the shop a couple of times. After my experience with this rifle and their C/S I have no use for the them or their products. For me it would be a M70. Terry
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Campfire Outfitter
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I know this has probably been an old topic but I can never get "search" to work. Your cash... Winchester 70 featherweight or Kimber classic 84M. Any other suggestions? ty in adv You must handle the rifles yourself and see how they feel and look to you. They are entirely different. The old M70 Featherweight has a thick feeling stock and is heavier. Even it's LOP feels long. It' goes 7# 11oz with an old 4X. The Kimber is a much smaller handy rifle. It feels small in my hands. It goes 6# 1 ounce! with it's 2.5-8 Leu.
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So the answer to the OP's question is you better buy one of each.
I am continually astounded at how quickly people make up their minds on little evidence or none at all. Jack O'Connor
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Campfire Oracle
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Dat is a WHOPPER Blackbuck!
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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A few pictures of my one and only Kimber purchase. I didn't save any pictures of the action but it didn't fit any better. IMO, they suck.
Terry WOW! You got one of the GOOD ones!
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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A few pictures of my one and only Kimber purchase. I didn't save any pictures of the action but it didn't fit any better. IMO, they suck.
Terry WOW! You got one of the GOOD ones! What do you expect? From the receipt it looks like he bought it at Sam's.
"An archer sees how far he can be from a target and still hit it, a bowhunter sees how close he can get before he shoots." It is certainly easy to use that same line of thinking with firearms. -- Unknown
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I expected a lot more for a $1000.00 rifle.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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But it's kinda funny to hear these criticism of the FW stock on here when the place runs amok with those silly McSwirleys in those ridiculous color blends. You gotta be a [bleep] just to order one of those things.
What nightmares! Talk about gay stocks! LOL!
Bob! My feelers are hurt! Is THAT the reason they call this the McFlame? I will fill out one of these... who shall I submit it too? Send it to me and I'll put it in the proper file.
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Featherweight would be safer bet for accuracy.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Featherweight would be safer bet for accuracy. And proper functioning....
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Campfire Oracle
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But it's kinda funny to hear these criticism of the FW stock on here when the place runs amok with those silly McSwirleys in those ridiculous color blends. You gotta be a [bleep] just to order one of those things.
What nightmares! Talk about gay stocks! LOL!
Bob! My feelers are hurt! Is THAT the reason they call this the McFlame? I will fill out one of these... who shall I submit it too? Send it to me and I'll put it in the proper file. Thanx! I knew you'd come thru for me!
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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This one is pretty, and shoots decently. I've done nothing to it, not even check the bedding. This one is a Kim-Nor. It shoots very well... I do have a M70 Super Grade in 7mm mag, and it's a nice rifle, too. I think I like the M70's for bigger calibers, than the svelte little Kimbers... Like your Kim-Nor. I have a Kim-Bro, Broughton 5C. Great way to make a Kimber shoot... M-70 NH Classic .375 H&H. Great shooter, shortened barrel because of weight. "Nor/Bro" not needed.
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Campfire Ranger
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Like your Kim-Nor. I have a Kim-Bro, Broughton 5C. Great way to make a Kimber shoot... If you ever shorten the barrel you can have a KimBro Slice...
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Like your Kim-Nor. I have a Kim-Bro, Broughton 5C. Great way to make a Kimber shoot... If you ever shorten the barrel you can have a KimBro Slice... It's the Fire Kosher length of 23"... Just need blue tape wrapped around the barrel... DF
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I expected a lot more for a $1000.00 rifle. What would you like? For them to absolutely not use wood that is over a certain moisture threshold? I don't have either but want both - in synthetics. There's every appearance of more hand work on the Kimbers, but they appear rushed... Guessing the Winnys pop out of zillion dollar wonder machines... Mas rapido Jose muy Kimber stockos hoy! In Costa Rica you do as you're told - ship it!
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I'm a Winchester guy, but also think you get a lot of rifle for $1,000.00 when it comes to the Kimber montana.
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Trying to figure out here if Kimbers are so great why do you pay $1000 to get a rifle you have to rebarrel? Course....I'm a 'hater'......
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Campfire 'Bwana
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My experience with Kimber has been when they shoot they shoot really well. The stock shaping (both wood and synthetic) mack them the best looking commercial rifles in the price range. No question When they don't shoot they need fixing which is generally a PITA,and even when I know what to do, I don't feel like putting the time effort and /or money into the fix, because as cute and innovative as I think they are, I still don't love them despite the light weight. I say this after maybe a dozen of them in various calibers. Plus, I am a tall guy and the short action rifles seem short coupled to me, handle funny and feel awkward. But lots of people like them and this is definitely a personal choice thing. I should say there really isn't a single new rifle in the $800-$1200 range I'd pay two cents for today so I'm not singling Kimber out for any criticism. JMO. Gimme a pre 64 or Classic M70, or old school Rem 700...with todays components I can build a rifle under 7 pounds if I want, that shoots and always works,and will last 30+ years and through 3-4 barrel changes before I get sick of it. Heres the last thing I tossed together, and beats a Kimber everywhere but weight,shoots better than its owner, does not need to be returned for warranty and was not bedded by a slave action and some guy who doesn't care about customer service. It was built by guys who GIS. That means I don't have to chase my tail and ask for solutions on the CF. It cost more money but so what? Nothing good ever comes cheap.
Last edited by BobinNH; 06/07/16.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Nice, Bob.
How about the details on that one.
DF
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Trying to figure out here if Kimbers are so great why do you pay $1000 to get a rifle you have to rebarrel? Course....I'm a 'hater'...... Rebarrel only if they don't shoot... Seems some do shoot... Thus, the "Kimber roulette" oft discussed. In my case, I had no chair when the music stopped... My smith and Broughton solved that "problem". I had traded for the used gun and wasn't in so heavy that I'm now under water. I could recoup my investment, as a proven shooter (half MOA) with a premium barrel should bring a bit more than an out of the box, what you see is what you get, Kimber. I have several M-70's, a bunch of M-700's, just one Kimber... DF
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Campfire Ranger
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Kimber makes really attractive, well designed guns, then cuts corners on components, IME. I'd be real curious to know how they make the Mauser-style extractor on the M84. I doubt it's a forging or barstock, however though I've never heard of anyone breaking one. A good barrel is the heart of any rifle, IMO. And if Ruger can make money on moderate priced American Rifles, and put good barrels on them, Kimber oughta be able to do it on a more expensive gun.
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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My experience with Kimber has been when they shoot they shoot really well. The stock shaping (both wood and synthetic) mack them the best looking commercial rifles in the price range. No question When they don't shoot they need fixing which is generally a PITA,and even when I know what to do, I don't feel like putting the time effort and /or money into the fix, because as cute and innovative as I think they are, I still don't love them despite the light weight. I say this after maybe a dozen of them in various calibers. Plus, I am a tall guy and the short action rifles seem short coupled to me, handle funny and feel awkward. But lots of people like them and this is definitely a personal choice thing. I should say there really isn't a single new rifle in the $800-$1200 range I'd pay two cents for today so I'm not singling Kimber out for any criticism. JMO. Gimme a pre 64 or Classic M70, or old school Rem 700...with todays components I can build a rifle under 7 pounds if I want, that shoots and always works,and will last 30+ years and through 3-4 barrel changes before I get sick of it. Heres the last thing I tossed together, and beats a Kimber everywhere but weight,shoots better than its owner, does not need to be returned for warranty and was not bedded by a slave action and some guy who doesn't care about customer service. It was built by guys who GIS. That means I don't have to chase my tail and ask for solutions on the CF. It cost more money but so what? Nothing good ever comes cheap. But it's built on a Remington M700 action. You can put as much lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Trying to figure out here if Kimbers are so great why do you pay $1000 to get a rifle you have to rebarrel? Course....I'm a 'hater'...... The same applies to Winchester, they don't offer a properly twisted 243 or a short action .264 properly twisted. I solved the issue rebarreling a used EW to 260 but it cost more for the McM. I did the same for almost the same cost to a Montana, have a second in the pipeline, and I am not buying stocks. I rebarreled a new Montana 223, it did not shoot as well as I wanted and now it shoots good, with an 8 twist barrel and I am not finished working on my loads. The 7WSM is good, straight from the factory, it will stay as issued. I do prefer the feel of the 70 action, much nicer than the Montana. But without a doubt, the Montana is a great value, even as a donor.
Dave
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Bob has a very attractive "pig", there, lipstick not needed...
Those Remingtons have accounted for a lot of game, spent a lot of time on benches and at long range target ranges over the decades.
So, I guess there are a bunch of us who disagree on the M700.
Now, after saying that, I prefer the older ones to the new ones, just me...
DF
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Campfire 'Bwana
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My experience with Kimber has been when they shoot they shoot really well. The stock shaping (both wood and synthetic) mack them the best looking commercial rifles in the price range. No question When they don't shoot they need fixing which is generally a PITA,and even when I know what to do, I don't feel like putting the time effort and /or money into the fix, because as cute and innovative as I think they are, I still don't love them despite the light weight. I say this after maybe a dozen of them in various calibers. Plus, I am a tall guy and the short action rifles seem short coupled to me, handle funny and feel awkward. But lots of people like them and this is definitely a personal choice thing. I should say there really isn't a single new rifle in the $800-$1200 range I'd pay two cents for today so I'm not singling Kimber out for any criticism. JMO. Gimme a pre 64 or Classic M70, or old school Rem 700...with todays components I can build a rifle under 7 pounds if I want, that shoots and always works,and will last 30+ years and through 3-4 barrel changes before I get sick of it. Heres the last thing I tossed together, and beats a Kimber everywhere but weight,shoots better than its owner, does not need to be returned for warranty and was not bedded by a slave action and some guy who doesn't care about customer service. It was built by guys who GIS. That means I don't have to chase my tail and ask for solutions on the CF. It cost more money but so what? Nothing good ever comes cheap. But it's built on a Remington M700 action. You can put as much lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig. That's you opinion. For some applications I have no problem with a Rem 700. There are over 5 million of them in circulation which tells me guys like you are all FOS. Anytime you want to match M70's owned or previously owned, Im your huckleberry. I'll bet you're one of those guys who thinks a M70 Classic is great right out of the box,cause its a M70. Another real POS in my opinion that needs lots of TLC before they get to hunt. Mostly,junk.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Bob has a very attractive "pig", there, lipstick not needed...
Those Remingtons have accounted for a lot of game, spent a lot of time on benches and at long range target ranges over the decades.
So, I guess there are a bunch of us who disagree on the M700.
Now, after saying that, I prefer the older ones to the new ones, just me...
DF
Yeah but it has one of those evil Rem triggers that go off by themselves. I guess everything has a weak point. (At least that's what I heard on a certain internet site.)
I am continually astounded at how quickly people make up their minds on little evidence or none at all. Jack O'Connor
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Bob has a very attractive "pig", there, lipstick not needed...
Those Remingtons have accounted for a lot of game, spent a lot of time on benches and at long range target ranges over the decades.
So, I guess there are a bunch of us who disagree on the M700.
Now, after saying that, I prefer the older ones to the new ones, just me...
DF
Im a Rem M700 fan too. Don't know how I could have run tens of thousands of rounds through them without all the bad stuff happening I keep reading about....
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Campfire 'Bwana
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DF: The barreled action was put together by Norbert Costa from Boise who is a top precision smith and would shoot Reelman into a rat hole at 1000 using that rifle.
Chambering is 6.5 Creed. Short 700 action, Benchmark 8 twist tube,fluted/stainless..
Sunny Hill alloy bottom metal. Timmy trigger.
Echols Shrike bedded by Alex Sitman of Master Gunstocks who does a lot of match rifle bedding. Very good, meticulous guy.
BTW function s flawless and yes it shoots. Far better than any M70Classic I ever bumped into. I used to call the Classic a "project in a box".
If the Rem 700 were such a POS I doubt Darcy would waste his time making a top end stock for it. Darcy does not put lipstick on pigs.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Bob has a very attractive "pig", there, lipstick not needed...
Those Remingtons have accounted for a lot of game, spent a lot of time on benches and at long range target ranges over the decades.
So, I guess there are a bunch of us who disagree on the M700.
Now, after saying that, I prefer the older ones to the new ones, just me...
DF
Yeah but it has one of those evil Rem triggers that go off by themselves. I guess everything has a weak point. (At least that's what I heard on a certain internet site.) I have some with early Walker triggers, tuned to perfection. The rest have Timney 510's. DF
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Not an apples to apples, but I took my 6.5x55 fwt to Colorado last year. A friend had a Kimber 84l in 30-06. To me the Kimber felt lighter, pointed better. I would handle them both if possible before spending any money. His was just as accurate as mine.
“Lighten up Francis”
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Bob has a very attractive "pig", there, lipstick not needed...
Those Remingtons have accounted for a lot of game, spent a lot of time on benches and at long range target ranges over the decades.
So, I guess there are a bunch of us who disagree on the M700.
Now, after saying that, I prefer the older ones to the new ones, just me...
DF
+1 DF No way I would call that a pig. I suspect Bob is into that rifle for well over two Montana's, but you do get what you pay for.
FÜCK Jeff_O!
MAGA
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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WA you'd be about right. Besides why do I need 2-3 rifles when one good one does all I need?
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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I don't own a Kimber yet but have had several 700's and 70's and just a few observations;
Owned a NH M70 Featherweight and functioning was flawless. Just plain worked. It shot well enough but many small quality details made it hard to live with. Chambering was 6.5x55. Much room in the long action box for COL latitude but a very sloppy chamber. Throat very deep. Fit and finish could be classified as fair. Would shoot about 1.25 with 140 Sierras, a little better with 120 Nosler BT's. Light on the front end made off hand a bit wobbly.
Currently own a 70 Super Grade BACO and the fit and finish are very, very good. The rifle has a very long throat, not even touching the lands with a 3.5 COL .300 mag. The magazine has been opened up to allow a longer COL and the bolt stop and ejector modified to accommodate the increase. Not had any problems with the follower but the rifle will stutter on occasion when operated hard and fast. The trigger, while not of the old design is very good on the model I have. No creep and breaks cleanly. Project is ongoing. Currently shoots about 1.25 with 208 Amax at 3.34.
M700 of about 1984 vintage. Fit and finish better than fair. Very long mag box gives a lot of flexibility. Rifle is currently on it's 3rd stock, 3rd scope, 2nd bottom metal and 3rd or 4th ring set. Barrel is original and by the feel of the cleaning rod quite worn although it appears shiny to the naked eye (i don't own a borescope). Functioning is good but it will stutter when ejecting dummy rounds from the chamber when operated hard and fast. Will shoot 208's into about 1.00 despite the wear and tear. 200 Partitions about 1.5. The trigger is the old dangerous design and while the pull weight is good has just a bit of creep that I can't adjust out.
I haven't handled an old SAKO or the newer Kimbers but would be interested to see how they compare in quality and precision.
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[
Kimber Classic, hands down.
M70 Fwt's (unless we're talking a pre-64) make me throw up a little in my mouth. Especially the BACO ones.
This is looking like a blondes/brunettes/redheads kinda thing. If somebody GAVE me a Kimber I couldn't get rid of it fast enough. And the newer FN Featherweights would be my pick of the Winchester litter. Love them. Ingwe is correct, the FN Featherweight is the best Winchester!
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Trying to figure out here if Kimbers are so great why do you pay $1000 to get a rifle you have to rebarrel? Course....I'm a 'hater'...... I haven't rebarreled one yet but for me it would be getting that small action in stainless good stock and trigger. I've not paid 1000 for one yet either. I've also tore apart almost every Winchester Remington and one vanguard that I've had. I don't think you'd end up with any more money in the kimber than any of the other ones. Or I should I say I wouldn't. I don't mind the stock and trigger so can save that money on kimbers.
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Campfire Oracle
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Ingwe is correct, the FN Featherweight is the best Winchester!
True, Pure Wisdom.
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Bart, Interesting discussion on "perfecting" an out of the box gun. We've all done some of that, some of us are more compulsive "fixers" than others... The most perfect rifle I've ever seen out of the box is an Ed Brown Damara .300 Win Mag that I traded for. Ed's 704 action is CRF and round bolt. He built this gun with a 3.6" mag length box mag, not 3.4" and chambered it for longer COAL, which leaves more powder room in the case. I know this is off the reservation regarding the topic being discussed, just had to tell you about one of the few, maybe only rifle I've ever had that needed NOTHING done to it. DF
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If Montana Rifle Company would put a featherweight barrel on their 1999 action, I think all the pre-64 and Classic fellows would have a pretty good alternative to the BACO Winchesters they don't like because of the MOA trigger.
"An archer sees how far he can be from a target and still hit it, a bowhunter sees how close he can get before he shoots." It is certainly easy to use that same line of thinking with firearms. -- Unknown
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Campfire Oracle
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Mike, the best of the best were the push feed Fwt. Models from the '80s...
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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If Montana Rifle Company would put a featherweight barrel on their 1999 action, I think all the pre-64 and Classic fellows would have a pretty good alternative to the BACO Winchesters they don't like because of the MOA trigger. Yup.
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,824 |
Mike, the best of the best were the push feed Fwt. Models from the '80s... Those PF M70's are a sleeper. Because the Pre-64 fans revolted so completely when the Post-64's came out, that gun has been maligned and it's really a good one. No one complains about other PF's, Wby, Rem, etc., even Savage, just the Post-64. Every Post-64 I've had was very accurate, smooth functioning and about hiccup free. And, they have the three position safety people pay big bucks for on custom 700's and they have the New Haven trigger that so many seem to like. Kinda squirrely why this is the case, but it is what it is and those guns are out there, waiting to be picked up for a song. IMO. DF
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
If Montana Rifle Company would put a featherweight barrel on their 1999 action, I think all the pre-64 and Classic fellows would have a pretty good alternative to the BACO Winchesters they don't like because of the MOA trigger. I pay no attention and just buy a pre 64. A NH Classic is OK with modifications. The only other M70 clone that holds any interest for me is a Dakota.I think they are nice. The new ones, I'm ambivalent...mostly because i don't need them for anything.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,841
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,841 |
Mike, the best of the best were the push feed Fwt. Models from the '80s... I picked one up a while back. It has the smoothest bolt travel of any M70 I own. But it's been put away for a while now because we've been having absolutely lousy weather and I promised the old fellow I got it from that I wouldn't subject it to our Cameroon-like weather - very hot and very wet.
"An archer sees how far he can be from a target and still hit it, a bowhunter sees how close he can get before he shoots." It is certainly easy to use that same line of thinking with firearms. -- Unknown
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300 |
And the Poobah smiled.....
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 12,530
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 12,530 |
Mike, the best of the best were the push feed Fwt. Models from the '80s... This thread is going have me pulling out such a rifle in 7x57 and shooting her some this weekend............with NBTs
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,129
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,129 |
My first deer rifle was a M70 Lightweight in 30.06. I foolishly sold it in 1998 for $375.
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,841
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,841 |
And the Poobah smiled.....
"An archer sees how far he can be from a target and still hit it, a bowhunter sees how close he can get before he shoots." It is certainly easy to use that same line of thinking with firearms. -- Unknown
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,841
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,841 |
This thread is going have me pulling out such a rifle in 7x57 and shooting her some this weekend............with NBTs They gotta get out and run every once in a while.
"An archer sees how far he can be from a target and still hit it, a bowhunter sees how close he can get before he shoots." It is certainly easy to use that same line of thinking with firearms. -- Unknown
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,824
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,824 |
The only Achilles heel I see with the Post-64 is the extractor in the right bolt lug. I've seen photos of those blown out with an overload.
Once that happens, one has to put a Sako/M-16 type extractor above the lug. I'm sure that changes the ejection angle, but seems to work.
That's one place where the "three rings of steel" are superior.
DF
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,824
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,824 |
Mike, the best of the best were the push feed Fwt. Models from the '80s... I picked one up a while back. It has the smoothest bolt travel of any M70 I own. But it's been put away for a while now because we've been having absolutely lousy weather and I promised the old fellow I got it from that I wouldn't subject it to our Cameroon-like weather - very hot and very wet. Call it like it is... No varnish... DF
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,489
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,489 |
D'Arcy's making rifles with 700 actions now?
All the 700 ribbing notwithstanding, for me it's a matter of looks (like the safety and bolt handle looks), but the real show stopper is I just can't accept a bolt that can't be locked. As to the Classics, all the ones I own, shoot every bit as well as my pre-64s.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,824
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,824 |
D'Arcy's making rifles with 700 actions now?
All the 700 ribbing notwithstanding, for me it's a matter of looks (like the safety and bolt handle looks), but the real show stopper is I just can't accept a bolt that can't be locked. As to the Classics, all the ones I own, shoot every bit as well as my pre-64s. Well, maybe stocks... I change out my older 700's so the bolt won't lock. I like to load and unload with the safety on. Don't have any new 700's, not looking for any. I'm a M-70 fan, don't get me wrong, but the 700's do have their place. DF
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
The Echols Shrike is the stock Darcy markets for the Remington 700. Like the Legend for the M70, it is very nice. That's why I bought one!
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,611
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,611 |
WA you'd be about right. Besides why do I need 2-3 rifles when one good one does all I need? Bob I agree completely. Quality . . . not quantity.
FÜCK Jeff_O!
MAGA
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,264
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,264 |
Yesterday I wandered through Wheelers in Boerne, Tx, and they had a couple Kimber Classics. Calibers were ho hum '06 & .270 Win, but I noticed they are now guaranteeing "Sub-MOA accuracy". So apparently they got the word that they oughta use better barrels.
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,824
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,824 |
Yesterday I wandered through Wheelers in Boerne, Tx, and they had a couple Kimber Classics. Calibers were ho hum '06 & .270 Win, but I noticed they are now guaranteeing "Sub-MOA accuracy". So apparently they got the word that they oughta use better barrels. Or maybe Ed Weatherby marketing sub MOA rifles for much less... DF
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